Garmin misleading Macintosh users

[+SpiritGuide]

Be aware that Garmin is falsely advertising their Communicator Plugin works on the Macintosh. They fail to mention that it will only work with USB devices. Most of the Garmin devices available use only serial ports and therefore the Communicator only runs on a small subset of Macintosh users.

 

If you have a Macintosh, I would seriously consider staying away from Garmin.

[+TeamBarstool]

If you have a Macintosh, I would seriously consider staying away from Garmin.

 

Whats my alternative?

 

 

IMac G5 1.8 GHz OSX 10.4.10

Garmin GPSmap 60cx

Palm zire 21

GPSBabel

MacCMConvert

cachemate

LoadMyTracks

TOPO!

[+gpsblake]

They mention right on their download page they don't support Serial on the MAC.

 

http://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=3739

 

quote: RS232 serial devices are not supported on the Mac.

 

And nearly all of the handheld Garmin devices in production use a USB interface these days. Only the older Garmins like the Etrex B&W series continue to use a serial.

[Vlad]

yes - garmin has many more usb devices than serial these days - time to upgrade?

[+hogrod]

yes - garmin has many more usb devices than serial these days - time to upgrade?

 

I agree, unless you are buying an older model garmin most now use USB ports.

[+SpiritGuide]

yes - garmin has many more usb devices than serial these days - time to upgrade?

 

I agree, unless you are buying an older model garmin most now use USB ports.

 

Really? I just went to their website and looked at the computer interfaces for all the models being advertised. I'd say only 10% at best are USB... the rest are serial. Where are you getting your information?

 

So as a customer of Garmin how would I know what is old or not when looking at their web site?

[+NinjaMonkey]

It isn't that difficult. Macs have not had a serial interface in how many years? They went to all USB back in 1997 I believe. Don't buy a GPS that does not have an interface your computer has. It is that simple.

 

You are probably seeing older models still listed on their site. Garmin has done a better job supporting the Mac than any other GPS company. While they have been slow, at least I can now load my maps on my GPS using my Mac.

[robertlipe]

 

Really? I just went to their website and looked at the computer interfaces for all the models being advertised. I'd say only 10% at best are USB... the rest are serial. Where are you getting your information?

 

Certain product lines, such as the automotive ones, are 100% USB. The non-mapping handhelds are still dominantly serial, but they're increasingly hard to find on retail shelves and most haven't seen firmware updates in years. The mapping handhelds have a few that do both, but USB dominates that product line, too.

 

Because I know the list is organized along those lines, I just looked at http://www.gpsbabel.org/htmldoc-development/fmt_garmin.html . For the units that have both, it counts as USB and it doesn't list the Marine lines, but there the ratio is 80 USB to 26 Serial. Of those 26, there are only about a half dozen that I've seen on a shelf in a store recently.

 

But any way you slice the numbers, it's very clear the serial units are on their deathbed. They aren't impossible to find, but they're definitely not 90% of the market.

[+SpiritGuide]

 

Really? I just went to their website and looked at the computer interfaces for all the models being advertised. I'd say only 10% at best are USB... the rest are serial. Where are you getting your information?

 

Certain product lines, such as the automotive ones, are 100% USB. The non-mapping handhelds are still dominantly serial, but they're increasingly hard to find on retail shelves and most haven't seen firmware updates in years. The mapping handhelds have a few that do both, but USB dominates that product line, too.

 

Because I know the list is organized along those lines, I just looked at http://www.gpsbabel.org/htmldoc-development/fmt_garmin.html . For the units that have both, it counts as USB and it doesn't list the Marine lines, but there the ratio is 80 USB to 26 Serial. Of those 26, there are only about a half dozen that I've seen on a shelf in a store recently.

 

But any way you slice the numbers, it's very clear the serial units are on their deathbed. They aren't impossible to find, but they're definitely not 90% of the market.

 

You all keep missing the point. You all must be experts to know which GPS units are new, which ones have USB, which ones are obsolete. I can walk down to my neighborhood Walmart or go to Amazon.com or Ebay and find units readily available that are all serial only. Garmin doesn't say anything on their website about the age of the units and which ones are on their deathbed! USB does NOT dominate the entire product line in the retail channels or even Garmin's web site, serial does.

 

It's incredible that someone would say Garmin doesn't support serial on Macs because they have no serial ports... you go out and try to buy a Windows PC with a serial interface and you won't find any. And Garmin supports serial on Windows even though that is a deadend hardware feature. There are many serial-to-USB adapters you can buy that makes even that argument pointless.

 

The bottom line is that Garmin is not supporting Macs like they do Windows. I can accept that as being market driven. But don't dish out any BS to defend them on the basis that most consumers looking to buy a GPS would (or should) know upfront that the unit they buy has a serial interface that Garmin isn't completely supporting on Macs (and who would know to read fine print about serial support in an obscure release notes anyway).

[+sduck]

Sorry Spiritguide, it looks like you're just po'd about not having read the details. Garmin's not doing any false advertising, which is your prime complaint, you just didn't do your homework before buying an older unit.

 

Sure, garmin's a bit slow getting going with their mac support, but I've found ways to do everything that I could do with my old pc on my newer macs, and even a few things that I couldn't do with them. And the usb connection is fine between my (relatively old) 60c and my mac - it's the only interface I've used for quite a while.

[+ryan3295]

How about this >> Check out the gps you like on Garmin website, click on the specs tab, and under the "Physical & Performance" there is a sections that says "PC interface:" to which the answer will be usb or serial. The interface is also clearly labled on the box.

 

And I wouldn't say you can not find a new PC without a serial port, while I agree that they are becoming less common in modern computers, I did just buy a new PC (in the last 4 months) that came with a serial port.

Edited October 22, 2007 by ryan3295

[+hogrod]

You all keep missing the point. You all must be experts to know which GPS units are new, which ones have USB, which ones are obsolete. I can walk down to my neighborhood Walmart or go to Amazon.com or Ebay and find units readily available that are all serial only.

 

yep were all the ones missing the point, lol.

 

On garmins website you can compare all models, and by doing so one of the details shown is PC interface. Take the mapping handhelds for example, if you goto the product page listed below you can check which models you want to compare, then just click the compare button above the picture links.

 

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=145

 

P.S. Retail stores(especially walmart) are not known for having the newest inventory of GPS receivers. I can goto my local walmart and pick up a Magellan Meridian gold right now, which has been discontinued for more than a couple years.

[+hogrod]

I just compared all the mapping handheld models, guess what? out of 16models only 4 models were serial connection only. also 5 of the mapping models have USB and serial connections.

 

my guess is the OP must be looking at the the non-mapping units, most of these non-mapping units are cheap or old models. The magellan explorist 100-300(except 210) don't have any PC interface, so I guess I would feel lucky garmin felt like including any PC interface on their cheap models.

[+gpsblake]

In a nutshell.

 

Any Garmin handheld color unit = USB

Any Garmin Etrex B&W unit = serial

[gallet]

What's the big deal anyway you can buy an adapter for $3

 

however if $3 it too much you can get one for 99c

Edited October 22, 2007 by gallet

[+SpiritGuide]

It still is amazing using the same lame arguments. Non-mapping has serial the other ones USB so USB is dominate if you only look at the mapping units. Only fools would buy serial therefore everyone should buy more expensive mapping units. As a new consumer I should know that one group is obsolete even though Garmin makes no mention of age or obsolence anywhere on their website. I should know as a non-technical person that serial is old and may not be on my computer (and that it is different than USB or 1904 firewire). I should know that Walmart sells old units. I should also know that even though geocaching.com shows you can download to a Garmin I should know to go to Garmin's developers website to find an obscure mention of no RS232 support... and as a non-technical person I should know that RS232 means serial interface. So as a new consumer buying for the first time, I should know all those things. Goodness, give me a break.

 

Garmin will continue to sell the serial units as long as they can while consumers (according to the comments) unwittingly buy them. Their manufacturing facilities are all set up and profit margins to be made from serial. The point I have made from the beginning which everyone seems to be ignoring is the undisputed fact that Garmin provides more support for Windows than Macs. The fact that Windows users can connect to serial devices, but not Mac users is undisputable proof of that.

 

BTW, I do have a serial-to-usb adapter. I can use it with other caching software except Garmin's. Windows PCs that have no serial ports can also use the same adapter, but they have added benefit of using Garmin software.

 

I give up... pointless to discuss something when "experts" won't listen to opposing thoughts.

[+UncleJimbo]

As a new consumer I should know that one group is obsolete even though Garmin makes no mention of age or obsolence anywhere on their website. I should know as a non-technical person that serial is old and may not be on my computer (and that it is different than USB or 1904 firewire).

 

Actually, yes, as a consumer you should know that. It is easy to find that information on the internet if the information matters to you.

 

The point I have made from the beginning which everyone seems to be ignoring is the undisputed fact that Garmin provides more support for Windows than Macs. The fact that Windows users can connect to serial devices, but not Mac users is undisputable proof of that.

 

Who is disputing that? Why would you expect anything else? Windows users outnumber Mac users by a large margin. Garmin claims some Mac support, and they do support Macs to some extent. Not completely, but more than other GPSr manufacturers.

 

Cheers

[+imajeep]

The bottom line is that Garmin is not supporting Macs like they do Windows. I can accept that as being market driven. But don't dish out any BS to defend them on the basis that most consumers looking to buy a GPS would (or should) know upfront that the unit they buy has a serial interface that Garmin isn't completely supporting on Macs (and who would know to read fine print about serial support in an obscure release notes anyway).

 

I believe it is you who may be missing the point. Of course Garmin isn't going to support the Mac--it has only 5% of the market, and all newer Macs run Windows. That's a fact of life. People like Garmin simply aren't going to cater to users of older Macs.

 

The solution is simple. Get an Intel based Mac and upgrade to Leopard. Then you can run the Garmin Windows applications. And if you are so religious that lips that touch Microsoft will never touch yours, well then, there is a price to be paid for that. Your choice.

[dogwalkers2]

Be aware that Garmin is falsely advertising their Communicator Plugin works on the Macintosh. They fail to mention that it will only work with USB devices. Most of the Garmin devices available use only serial ports and therefore the Communicator only runs on a small subset of Macintosh users.

 

If you have a Macintosh, I would seriously consider staying away from Garmin.

 

You also state (in a later post):

 

And Garmin supports serial on Windows even though that is a deadend hardware feature.

 

This actually has nothing to do with Macs. Garmin does not support serial connections on Windows, either, although it may or may not work. On the Communicator download site, click on the FAQ (something you should normally do to see if there are any issues like this or to see if the program actually does what you want it to - in other words, not in an "obscure release note") it clearly states the following:

 

Q. Does the Communicator work with all Garmin devices?

A. No, the Communicator works best with devices that connect to a computer via USB cable.

 

While some devices that connect to a computer via serial cable or serial-USB adapter will work with the Communicator, they are not officially supported and we cannot guarantee compatibility or provide customer support.

 

Thus, you could say exactly the same thing you did, replacing "Macintosh" with "Windows". Putting the two together, since it applies to both, replace "Macintosh" with "computer" and end up with a truly absurd result.

Edited October 22, 2007 by dogwalkers2

[Glenn W]

Garmin offers cheaper units with limited functionality to support a segment of users that can't (or are simply unwilling to) spend over $300 for a receiver. This is good in that it opens geocaching to a broader participant base. However, if you go the budget route, it is YOUR responsibility to research the compromises you will have to live with. It really doesn't take an expert to realize that a receiver with a monochrome LCD and a serial cable is a dated design, especially when the latest and greatest models have color LCDs and USB connections. At any rate, a prudent shopper would not buy an electronic device with an interface his computer does not support without first confirming that an adapter will work.

 

You made a mistake...you're human. Now it's time to take responsibility for your actions and stop trying to pass the blame to others. Return the item if you can; if not, sell it on Ebay.

[stiney51]

P.S. Retail stores(especially walmart) are not known for having the newest inventory of GPS receivers. I can goto my local walmart and pick up a Magellan Meridian gold right now, which has been discontinued for more than a couple years.

 

LOL, actually you should remove any reference to GPS in that statement. The walmarts of the world thrive on last year's product lines overseas knockoffs and manufacturers closeouts. That's for any products, not just GPS.

[+The Cheeseheads]

I give up... pointless to discuss something when "experts" won't listen to opposing thoughts agree with me even though most of my points have been proven invalid.

Fixed.

[+Prime Suspect]

As a new consumer I should know that one group is obsolete even though Garmin makes no mention of age or obsolence anywhere on their website.

Really? That's just 2 clicks away from their home page.

[+Paulsan]

I can't remember Macs ever using a RS-232 serial connection and I've been using Macs since 1994. Wasn't it a DB-9 connector? I don't believe Macs have used a serial connection since the old Blue & White G3s.

 

Let me guess, you were walking down the aisle at Walmart and saw some GPS units and said "Wow, that looks cool, which one is the cheapest?".

[+SpiritGuide]

As a new consumer I should know that one group is obsolete even though Garmin makes no mention of age or obsolence anywhere on their website. I should know as a non-technical person that serial is old and may not be on my computer (and that it is different than USB or 1904 firewire).

 

Actually, yes, as a consumer you should know that. It is easy to find that information on the internet if the information matters to you.

 

The point I have made from the beginning which everyone seems to be ignoring is the undisputed fact that Garmin provides more support for Windows than Macs. The fact that Windows users can connect to serial devices, but not Mac users is undisputable proof of that.

 

Who is disputing that? Why would you expect anything else? Windows users outnumber Mac users by a large margin. Garmin claims some Mac support, and they do support Macs to some extent. Not completely, but more than other GPSr manufacturers.

 

Cheers

 

If you look at my first comment that started this thread, that is what I said too before it all got twisted... "Communicator only runs on a subset of Macintosh users" like you said "Garmin claims some Mac support, and they do support Macs to some extent".

[+SpiritGuide]

The bottom line is that Garmin is not supporting Macs like they do Windows. I can accept that as being market driven. But don't dish out any BS to defend them on the basis that most consumers looking to buy a GPS would (or should) know upfront that the unit they buy has a serial interface that Garmin isn't completely supporting on Macs (and who would know to read fine print about serial support in an obscure release notes anyway).

 

I believe it is you who may be missing the point. Of course Garmin isn't going to support the Mac--it has only 5% of the market, and all newer Macs run Windows. That's a fact of life. People like Garmin simply aren't going to cater to users of older Macs.

 

The solution is simple. Get an Intel based Mac and upgrade to Leopard. Then you can run the Garmin Windows applications. And if you are so religious that lips that touch Microsoft will never touch yours, well then, there is a price to be paid for that. Your choice.

 

Yep, that's what I said ""Communicator only runs on a subset of Macintosh users". But it's not an issue of catering to users of older Macs... that has nothing to do with it. They are not supporting older Garmin units on Macs as every one else has pointed out. Macs have had USB for years longer than Windows PCs.

[+SpiritGuide]

The bottom line is that Garmin is not supporting Macs like they do Windows. I can accept that as being market driven. But don't dish out any BS to defend them on the basis that most consumers looking to buy a GPS would (or should) know upfront that the unit they buy has a serial interface that Garmin isn't completely supporting on Macs (and who would know to read fine print about serial support in an obscure release notes anyway).

 

I believe it is you who may be missing the point. Of course Garmin isn't going to support the Mac--it has only 5% of the market, and all newer Macs run Windows. That's a fact of life. People like Garmin simply aren't going to cater to users of older Macs.

 

The solution is simple. Get an Intel based Mac and upgrade to Leopard. Then you can run the Garmin Windows applications. And if you are so religious that lips that touch Microsoft will never touch yours, well then, there is a price to be paid for that. Your choice.

 

And I do have a brand new Intel based Mac and plan to upgrade to Leopard... and I can run Windows applications on my Mac now. And I touch Microsoft daily at work and build Windows applications being an IT executive. The point from the very beginning has been to let other Mac users know that Communication may not run with their GPS unit. It has nothing to do with religion.

[+SpiritGuide]

Be aware that Garmin is falsely advertising their Communicator Plugin works on the Macintosh. They fail to mention that it will only work with USB devices. Most of the Garmin devices available use only serial ports and therefore the Communicator only runs on a small subset of Macintosh users.

 

If you have a Macintosh, I would seriously consider staying away from Garmin.

 

You also state (in a later post):

 

And Garmin supports serial on Windows even though that is a deadend hardware feature.

 

This actually has nothing to do with Macs. Garmin does not support serial connections on Windows, either, although it may or may not work. On the Communicator download site, click on the FAQ (something you should normally do to see if there are any issues like this or to see if the program actually does what you want it to - in other words, not in an "obscure release note") it clearly states the following:

 

Q. Does the Communicator work with all Garmin devices?

A. No, the Communicator works best with devices that connect to a computer via USB cable.

 

While some devices that connect to a computer via serial cable or serial-USB adapter will work with the Communicator, they are not officially supported and we cannot guarantee compatibility or provide customer support.

 

Thus, you could say exactly the same thing you did, replacing "Macintosh" with "Windows". Putting the two together, since it applies to both, replace "Macintosh" with "computer" and end up with a truly absurd result.

 

Ok, straight from Dave, a Garmin developer: "Because we support serial devices in the P.C. and will continue to do so indefinitely, and the virtual serial port created by your Keyspan adapter looks just like a hardware serial port to all of our applications, you should be OK on the P.C.

 

It's a tough call not to support your device on the Mac. "

 

Check it out at developer.garmin.com

[+SpiritGuide]

Garmin offers cheaper units with limited functionality to support a segment of users that can't (or are simply unwilling to) spend over $300 for a receiver. This is good in that it opens geocaching to a broader participant base. However, if you go the budget route, it is YOUR responsibility to research the compromises you will have to live with. It really doesn't take an expert to realize that a receiver with a monochrome LCD and a serial cable is a dated design, especially when the latest and greatest models have color LCDs and USB connections. At any rate, a prudent shopper would not buy an electronic device with an interface his computer does not support without first confirming that an adapter will work.

 

You made a mistake...you're human. Now it's time to take responsibility for your actions and stop trying to pass the blame to others. Return the item if you can; if not, sell it on Ebay.

 

What in the world are you talking about? I have a Geko 201 and love the little beauty. At the time of purchase last spring, Garmin was saying they would soon have support for the Macintosh. There was no mention that support meant only particular Garmin units... show me otherwise. I make no mistake unless it was taking Garmin for their word about supporting Macs (with no disclaimers about serial, USB, or whatever). The Mac supports serial and USB... my other caching software does too... just not the Communicator. Which is what I said at the beginning of the thread.

[+SpiritGuide]

I give up... pointless to discuss something when "experts" won't listen to opposing thoughts agree with me even though most of my points have been proven invalid.

Fixed.

 

You just proved one of my points.

[+SpiritGuide]

As a new consumer I should know that one group is obsolete even though Garmin makes no mention of age or obsolence anywhere on their website.

Really? That's just 2 clicks away from their home page.

 

My Geko 201 is not on that list nor is there a number of serial based units.

[+SpiritGuide]

I can't remember Macs ever using a RS-232 serial connection and I've been using Macs since 1994. Wasn't it a DB-9 connector? I don't believe Macs have used a serial connection since the old Blue & White G3s.

 

Let me guess, you were walking down the aisle at Walmart and saw some GPS units and said "Wow, that looks cool, which one is the cheapest?".

 

I have been using Macs since 1984 and they have had serial connections before USB was introduced. No, I didn't buy from Walmart... I listened to others on the forums who indicated a Geko 201 was an excellent unit to geocache with. It wasn't the cheapest compared to the Garmin units I looked at at the time. I knew it had a serial interface and I knew there were serial-to-usb adapters. A friend used one to interface with his serial etrex on a Windows machine via Communicator. Garmin didn't say back then when they planned to support Macs that it only meant USB Garmin devices.

 

As I keep repeating, I tried to inform other Macintosh users that their Garmin GPS unit may not be supported by Garmin's Communicator. And eventually this thread has confirmed that.

[dogwalkers2]

As I keep repeating, I tried to inform other Macintosh users that their Garmin GPS unit may not be supported by Garmin's Communicator. And eventually this thread has confirmed that.

And the same for every Windows machine, even with a serial adapter, like I said earlier. It's not a Mac persecution....Everybody's in the same boat as far a Communicator goes.

[+Thrak]

never mind.......

Edited October 23, 2007 by Thrak

[+robert]

What in the world are you talking about? I have a Geko 201 and love the little beauty. At the time of purchase last spring, Garmin was saying they would soon have support for the Macintosh. There was no mention that support meant only particular Garmin units... show me otherwise.

Can you show where it says they would support ALL handhelds? I agree with the others that say you are upset because you jumped the gun a bit without reading the specifics. You bought a low-end unit that doesn't have support. While I understand that smarts a bit, there's not anything Garmin did wrong here.

 

With OSX Leopard coming out on Friday, I realized I wanted it. I read the specs and notice it's not going to work with my G4 Cube -- so I went and bought a new Mac Mini. Now I don't have to worry about coming home with the Leopard box only to find out it won't work. I'm glad I read the specs ahead of time to know that.

 

If you MUST use Communicator, then get a new GPS with native USB support. If not, then there's really no fuss. Garmin hasn't promised anything they didn't deliver. The did deliver Mac support, just not for your GPS.

 

Edited October 23, 2007 by robert

[+UncleJimbo]

If you MUST use Communicator, then get a new GPS with native USB support. If not, then there's really no fuss. Garmin hasn't promised anything they didn't deliver. The did deliver Mac support, just not for your GPS.

 

 

Well, I am still waiting for them to make it possible for MacOS users to use their mapping software. It would be nice to not have to buy the maps already loaded on microSD cards.

[+Paulsan]

As far as I'm concerned, YOU are the one spreading misinformation. YOU should have done the research and asked questions here BEFORE you bought the cheapest/almost cheapest GPSr that Garmin makes.

 

If you've been using Macs since 1984, you should know the realities of the support that you can expect and what ports are and are not available to you. It is what it is.

 

Step up and take responsibility for your mistake instead of blaming Garmin.

 

That's what we teach our children.

 

 

From the webpage:

 

Notes:

 

System Requirements:

Intel-based or PowerPC G3 or later Mac

OS 10.4 or later

Firefox 2.0+ or Safari 2.0+

 

Change History

 

Changes made from version 2.2.0.1 Beta to 2.2.1.0:

 

Added the capability to read and write courses, workouts and user profile to fitness devices such as the Edge 305 and Forerunner 305.

Added the capability to plan trips by writing locations to SD cards without a GPS device present.

Added the capability to allow a web site to read a directory of fitness activities or courses and then just retrieve details for individual activities.

Added a property to allow web sites to retrieve fitness data in compressed format.

Once a user has confirmed to the Garmin Communicator that they trust a particular web site directory, pages at or below that directory level are always trusted

The Forerunner 50 is not yet supported on the Mac. (Support will be added in a future release when drivers become available.)

RS232 serial devices are not supported on the Mac.

Instructions for using this software

 

 

Click on "Download" and choose to save the file to your computer.

Double-click the file to open it.

A new Finder window will open. Locate and double-click on the 'Garmin Communicator Plug-In' icon.

Follow the installer program's prompts to install Garmin Communicator Plug-In.

[gallet]

Well, I am still waiting for them to make it possible for MacOS users to use their mapping software. It would be nice to not have to buy the maps already loaded on microSD cards.

 

I just bought City Navigator Australia V7 on a CD and went down to the local library to use their PC's to load it up, rather than get it on an SD card. That way I can still take advantage of the extra license (not available in the 2008 version) and get a free update as well. It sure is a pain not being able to use Garmin software on a Mac but at least it's only a one time load.

[+sduck]

Could a moderator please lock this thread? No-one's learning anything, and the op appears to be nothing but a troll.