Challenge to all

[+Hobo2]

Some time ago there was quite a discussion (in UTAG), on where the exact center of my state (Utah), is. Surprisingly the Utah Geological Survey Office suggested taking a perfect scale map of the state, making it ridged some how, and balancing it on a small point to find the center. This didn’t sound feasible or very scientific, but surprising it did work. Some tried to make a square out of the state, so an X can mark the spot. This worked too, but we had to question both these methods, you know, in the name of Geocaching accuracy, and because we came up with three different centers. After much debate the consensus seem to be N 39° 23.2' W 111° 41.1', as the true center of Utah.

 

Now I have just learned there is a Boy Scout in our town, that is not only trying to find the true center of the state, but he has received permission from the property owner to erect a permanent maker on the spot… as his civic duty requirement to become an Eagle Scout. It is once again amazing to me how this sport has introduced me to a whole other world. I have offered to let him use my GPS, which he gladly accepted, and also offered my help, which he also accepted. He is now very interested in what we do, after telling him all about it.

 

So here is my challenge to all of you. Do you know where the “exact” center of your state is? If so, is it marked? If not, can you find it… there are some funny shaped states in this wonderful Country of ours? Let’s save this thread and see where it goes, because I’m sure it will take some time. I would also like to have the results of all 50 states… just for a geekie Geocaching thing to have.

 

PS. There’s a long held belief that the center of Utah is located near the town of Lavan, UT. In fact, the first settlers were so sure they named there town after it… Lavan spelled backwards is Naval, interesting and funny huh? Who knows what interesting trivia you will find?

Edited October 17, 2007 by Hobo2

[WhatUpDog]

The center of Alabama is a virtual "Right in the Middle of Things"

Edited October 17, 2007 by WhatUpDog

[+Isonzo Karst]

You'd have to define "exact center".

 

I suspect if I used your rigid map idea to find the exact center of Florida, it would be in the Gulf of Mexico somewhere, ie, there would be no balance point within the state boundary.

 

There was a locationless cache devoted to this theme, and I recall at the time reading of two completely different geographic centers for Florida - one NW of Brooksville about 12 miles (that would be NW of me) and another SE of Orlando- these points are at least 70 miles apart, maybe further.

 

I suspect one "center" is arrived at by some kind of averaging of the furthest N/S and E/W points of the state (the one NW of me) and the other is arrived at by some kind of land surface center - the point where the surface to the northwest = the to the southeast.

Edited October 17, 2007 by Isonzo Karst

[+IDLookout]

You'd have to define "exact center".

 

I suspect if I used your rigid map idea to find the exact center of Florida, it would be in the Gulf of Mexico somewhere, ie, there would be no balance point within the state boundary.

 

There was a locationless cache devoted to this theme, and I recall at the time reading of two completely different geographic centers for Florida - one NW of Brooksville about 12 miles (that would be NW of me) and another SE of Orlando- these points are at least 70 miles apart, maybe further.

 

I suspect one "center" is arrived at by some kind of averaging of the furthest N/S and E/W points of the state (the one NW of me) and the other is arrived at by some kind of land surface center - the point where the surface to the northwest = the to the southeast.

 

You're right - there's a center of mass, boundary center, etc...

 

I'll have to try to dig up the web page with the different "centers".

 

Meanwhile, here is a page with "geographic centers": Geographic Centers of the states

Edited October 17, 2007 by IDLookout

[+JeremyR]

Challenge to all... In the US - we don't have states over here

 

Anyway, the precise location of the centre of England and the UK as a whole is hotly disputed by many different places:

Wiki link

[+IDLookout]

Here's a geocaching thread that explains the concept a bit:

 

Center of a Triangle Thread

[+Machuco]

There is a cache at the center point of California. GCHNQH

[+AtwellFamily]

Colorado being square, isn't this the middle of the state:

 

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?state...P00170000000009

[+cameltrekor]

Colorado being square, isn't this the middle of the state:

...

 

almost

[+Scooter Bill]

There's a category for Geographic Centers on Waymarking.com.

[+flgAZ]

Since Arizona isn't quite a rectangle we have these two caches.

Journey to the center of the state

Journey to the center of the X

[CacheNCarryMA]

I know where Massachusetts's center of population is. (The center of population can be found by taking the map balancing exercise one step further, by including equal weighted people and finding the balance point.)

 

I put the initial stage of a cache there - Center of Mass (GCNAT6). Follow the links on that cache page to find other discussions about geographic centers.

Edited October 17, 2007 by CacheNCarryMA

[+new_dharma]

this site has a list of the geographic center of many/most states

[Uberquandary]

Colorado being square, isn't this the middle of the state:

...

 

almost

 

The center of population is in Jefferson County. They have it marked, or a spot close enough, in an Open Space park; Deer Creek Canyon park, I believe, or a park near Deer Creek Canyon.

[+Mr. 0]

Ohio's can be found in the town of Centerburg. There's a little monument of sorts in a community park there. Coords are N 40° 18.559 W 082° 41.535

 

Here's the Waymark I submitted for it.

[+wimseyguy]

I don't know about the geographic center of NC. With our elongated shape and angular Eastern and Western boundaries it's still probably somewhere near the Population Center cache.

 

Edited to add-yup, using the info from IDlookout's post-they are only 10 miles apart.

Edited October 17, 2007 by wimseyguy

[knowschad]

How would you calculate Michigan's (don't forget to include the Upper Penninsula!)

[+new_dharma]

How would you calculate Michigan's (don't forget to include the Upper Penninsula!)

In Wexford County, 5 miles NNW of Cadillac (???)

[+trainlove]

Here's a geocaching thread that explains the concept a bit:

 

Center of a Triangle Thread

 

I know that thread quite well, I posted a note to it about the cool things that triangles define.

But no state or country is a triangle. And spherical triangles are actually harder to figure.

 

I also know CacheNCarryMA's population center of Massachusetts, it's been on my list to do for over a year. I have done the other center of Mass, Get Centered by WaldenRun (GCC55A), but then again what's the definition of center.

 

I have tried to program millions of points within the body of Massachusetts to calculate the centroid but gave up right away. I have tried to just program thousands of points say every 100 meters along the border, but the center of those is not the center of the body. I have not tried just to use the extreme north, east, south and west points since that's meaningless also for a state like Mass, perhaps not so meaningless for those large rectangular states.

[+IDLookout]

Here's a geocaching thread that explains the concept a bit:

 

Center of a Triangle Thread

 

I know that thread quite well, I posted a note to it about the cool things that triangles define.

But no state or country is a triangle. And spherical triangles are actually harder to figure.

 

I also know CacheNCarryMA's population center of Massachusetts, it's been on my list to do for over a year. I have done the other center of Mass, Get Centered by WaldenRun (GCC55A), but then again what's the definition of center.

 

I have tried to program millions of points within the body of Massachusetts to calculate the centroid but gave up right away. I have tried to just program thousands of points say every 100 meters along the border, but the center of those is not the center of the body. I have not tried just to use the extreme north, east, south and west points since that's meaningless also for a state like Mass, perhaps not so meaningless for those large rectangular states.

 

I like the following definition that I read some time ago: "Take a "flat" shape of the state and find the point that it will balance on a point without tipping." Which essentially is a centroid.

 

(p.s. - I wasn't saying that states were triangles, just that the thread had some concepts pertaining to the question)

[+Isonzo Karst]

I've seen that list on http://americasroof.com/center.shtml back when I was looking to log the Locationless Geographic Center cache.

I can tell you that the point provided for Florida is simply wrong. The physical location is given as 12 mi. NNW of Brooksville and the coords are given as 28.1333 81.7667. Believe me, those coordinates are east of Brooksville and over 48 miles south of Brooksville Florida. A point NNW of Brooksville would be at roughly 28.87 82.75 in Decimal Degrees.

 

I never did log that Locationless cache because I never found a geographic center defined for Florida that made any sense. I suspect Michigan would be another really tough state and Hawaii.

Edited October 18, 2007 by Isonzo Karst

[+looksalot]

For Oklahoma it's N35°32.2' W097°39.6' .

[+9Key]

Texas' center is near the town of Brady in McCulloch County >

W 99° 27.5' N 31° 14.6'

[+BlueDeuce]

Not much fun for us. They put a town there and yes, called it State Center.

 

State Center, Iowa

 

 

(Eh, I don't know if it's true. Someone else do the math for me, okay?)

[knowschad]

How would you calculate Michigan's (don't forget to include the Upper Penninsula!)

In Wexford County, 5 miles NNW of Cadillac (???)

 

If that's true, they must be counting the weight of all the cars in the Detroit area!!

[+Team Cotati]

36.89489 N

119.50874 W

[AZcachemeister]

Since Arizona isn't quite a rectangle we have these two caches.

Journey to the center of the state

Journey to the center of the X

 

Thanks for the plug!

I arrived too late to do it myself.

[+"we two want to play too"]

How would you calculate Michigan's (don't forget to include the Upper Penninsula!)

 

There is a monument in St.Louis (somewhere near Alma) that claims to be placed on the exact geographic center of the lower peninsula.

 

To combine both peninsulas would be tricky. I live on the west coast of the lower and when I run my PQ, straight north is still east of the middle of the upper!

 

Wow, that almost doesn't make sense.

 

Ask me the furthest in any direction you can place a cache in my state...

[+KG1960]

There's a category for Geographic Centers on Waymarking.com.

 

Yes, the center of Illinois is in a town named Chestnut, and there is a marker there that I have waymarked.

[+Coolie llama]

This is being done by a couple bicycle touring to the exact center of each of the 50 states using their gps. Google it somewhere online and I'm sure you'll find the link. I know where it is in Wisconsin since they were on our tour last summer. Great idea

Edited October 22, 2007 by Coolie llama

[+Ambrosia]

Here's Washington State: Journey to the Center of WA. It's next to a marker that was placed there to show the geographic center of the state.

[Neos2]

Challenge to all... In the US - we don't have states over here

 

Anyway, the precise location of the centre of England and the UK as a whole is hotly disputed by many different places:

Wiki link

Oh, anyone without something called a "state" would just use their local 'local authority' disgnation:

province, region, prefecture, district, borough, parish, shire, or municipality all come to mind as places that are larger than cities but smaller than the whole country in various parts of the world.

 

If I remember right, the UK divides into main "local governments" (England, Wales, Scotland) and those are further divided into "government office regions" (London, West Midlands, etc). The regions are divided into "counties". Counties have districts/boroughs in them; districts/boroughs have parishes/town councils/cities.

 

So that makes:

UK (England/Wales/Scotland)>regions>counties>parish/cities

 

US>States>counties>incorporated areas/cities/towns

 

I suppose that if I were in England and I wanted to do this "challenge" I would just discuss with others which governmental unit we wanted to consider the equivilent of "states" in the US and go from there. I'd probably go with "regions" if I had to choose.

[+Glenn]

I never did log that Locationless cache because I never found a geographic center defined for Florida that made any sense. I suspect Michigan would be another really tough state and Hawaii.

 

It wasn't hard to find the geographic center for Hawaii. I found the answer at http://www.netstate.com/states/geography/hi_geography.htm. It is at 157° 15.6'W 20° 57.1'N.

[+Juicepig]

ONTARIO

======

 

North N56 50 36.17 =56.84338055555555555555555555555556

SOUTH N 41 40 33.34 = 41.675927777777777777777777777778

AVG=49.25965416666666666666666666666= N49 15.579

 

WEST W95 10 6.04 =95.16834444444444444444444444444444

EAST W74 20 37.95 = 74.343875

AVG=84.75610972222222222222222222222= W84 45.367

 

N49 15.579 W84 45.367 <- http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&a...p;z=13&om=1

 

Seems to be only 4 caches within 100km.. not suprising given the remoteness of the location! http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.asp...lon=-84.7561097

[+2ofHis]

The cache placed at the exact geographical center of Wisconsin, placed by yours truly, is GCPNJC, "At The Center Of It All", where there is a marker placed by the state.

[+markz68]

Indiana's is supposedly at N 40 00.000, W 86 16.002.

 

My aunt & uncle's house is about 0.14 miles from there. I will be there on Thanksgiving Day, so I'll have to check it out.

[+Hobo2]

This is all fun to read, thanks for playing. I sat down a went through all the guesses, links, etc. and decided there is truly more ways than one in finding the center of each state/province/country. Even state and government websights have a tough time with there accuracy.

 

After looking at all the sumitions to this forum challenge, it appeared that Massachusetts is the hardest one to find. This brings out another challenge if you want to keep this discussion open (since we didn't get feedback from all states), which state is the most difficult to find the exact center of?

[+IDLookout]

This is all fun to read, thanks for playing. I sat down a went through all the guesses, links, etc. and decided there is truly more ways than one in finding the center of each state/province/country. Even state and government websights have a tough time with there accuracy.

 

After looking at all the sumitions to this forum challenge, it appeared that Massachusetts is the hardest one to find. This brings out another challenge if you want to keep this discussion open (since we didn't get feedback from all states), which state is the most difficult to find the exact center of?

 

That might be Hawaii.