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I'm about to place 3 new caches but like most people get a little tired of the same people being FTF........If that's how they want to play the game then fine............it just becomes a little tiring with the same people always being first!

 

So here's my idea and I'd like some feedback.

 

What I would like to do is publish the caches but not actually place them. In the cache description I'll explain that although the cache is published the cache is not placed but will be placed between....say 15/10/07 and 05/11/07.

 

Doing this won't bother the cachers who aren't worried about FTF and will just go find the cache after 05/11 but may on the off chance and while they're in the area take a look anyway. The FTF's on the other hand won't be able to take the chance that it'll be placed on 05/11 and will have to check between the dates......it should drive then nuts!

 

Comments......thoughts?

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Interesting idea, but won't that also disadvantage new FTFers?

 

There used to be a similar problem round here, same people going after everything and not really letting others get a look in. Thankfully not so much nowadays but I can see how it cheeses others off.

 

I'm always pleased to see someone different get a FTF, but I am not certain there is much one can do to deter the real hard core FTFers, unless of course you drop them a line and ask them not to go after it until it has been found.

 

Try asking for yiour caches to be published at varying times of the day / week.

 

I took the decision to make all my new caches MO until they have been found 5 or 10 times or so, just to give a headstart to those who pay to support this hobby of ours. That has meant various people have had FTFs on my caches.

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Interesting idea, but won't that also disadvantage new FTFers?

 

It'll depend on how desperate they are to FTF

 

Try asking for yiour caches to be published at varying times of the day / week.

Tried that didn't work

I took the decision to make all my new caches MO until they have been found 5 or 10 times or so, just to give a headstart to those who pay to support this hobby of ours. That has meant various people have had FTFs on my caches.

 

I do mine as MO's but the FTF's are members!

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An interesting approach, but I suspect the reviewers wouldn't ok a cache they knew wasn't there. If they did, I think it'd have to be disabled immediately. Even with these measures, there's no guarantee your FTFers won't still be the keen ones once it's live again; someone has to be. I think it'd be better to place a puzzle that will slow lots of people down, or put a 'Only cachers whose caching name or team's name starts with A B or C may find this cache in its first week. Week two will be D E and F'...etc. and keep the page updated for eight weeks til you've gone through the whole alphabet- and then make it a free-for-all cache. Something like that anyway- there must be a mechanism that works better than listing a cache that's not there.

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We know who the regular FTF cachers are around us.

We have 5 FTF's to our name, two local(ish) were there unfound for a week.

We have 28 caches found on the same day as it was FTF'd.

 

If its in our area, and we can make it (other commitments allowing!) we go for it -if it's "Will be placed sometime this week" we're not interested!

 

On the same basis, if we're planning a caching trip out, and the cache "Will be placed sometime this week" in the area, we won't waste time looking for it, if it's in the week it may/may not be there!

 

G

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An interesting approach, but I suspect the reviewers wouldn't ok a cache they knew wasn't there.

OK, a question for reviewers will you publish knowing that the cache isn't there but will be?

there's no guarantee your FTFers won't still be the keen ones once it's live again; someone has to be.

I know someone has to be but it may slow them down

I think it'd be better to place a puzzle that will slow lots of people down, or put a 'Only cachers whose caching name or team's name starts with A B or C may find this cache in its first week. Week two will be D E and F'...etc. and keep the page updated for eight weeks til you've gone through the whole alphabet- and then make it a free-for-all cache. Something like that anyway- there must be a mechanism that works better than listing a cache that's not there.

Good idea!

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I'm a keen FtF hound. But I also have a demanding job and and a family. In my area most caches have been found by one team with in an hour or so of the cache being published. Usually before I have even seen the email. So I have resigned myself to only be in a position to chase about 20% of what comes out. And I get about 20% of those.

 

What's the big deal with FtF anyway. It seems to be more about who has the best IT set up to know about new listings, and the most free time to go and find them, than about the skill involved in working out where the cache is.

 

Some of the local cachers here have special FtF prizes, like a coin or lottery ticket. But they have clearly stated that they will only award the prize to a cacher once. So after a couple of hides, the FtF hounds have been ruled ineligible. Once the cache has been found by a cacher who has not been awarded a FtF on a previous hide they are sent the prize and forever more acknowledged in the cache description.

 

However the real FtF and the prize are two different things.

 

I guess you could take it one step further and insist that you will only award a FtF on your hides to any cacher once, and even delete the logs of cachers who ignore this request. But I'm not sure I would support this as a strategy.

 

Just a thought.

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For something that is not the norm - such as this suggestion I would have thought that mooting it with the revieweres would have got you an answer! If I remember correctly, when a cache is submitted for review you have to place a check mark in the submission saying that the "listing" is active. If you do not check the box the reviewers do not see it. If the "listing" and "cache" being active are one and the same only a reviewer can say.

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Some of the local cachers here have special FtF prizes, like a coin or lottery ticket. But they have clearly stated that they will only award the prize to a cacher once. So after a couple of hides, the FtF hounds have been ruled ineligible. Once the cache has been found by a cacher who has not been awarded a FtF on a previous hide they are sent the prize and forever more acknowledged in the cache description.

 

However the real FtF and the prize are two different things.

 

I guess you could take it one step further and insist that you will only award a FtF on your hides to any cacher once, and even delete the logs of cachers who ignore this request. But I'm not sure I would support this as a strategy.

 

Just a thought.

Another good idea!

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I’ve got loads of FTFs. As I’ve said before, I don’t really care about them and I often leave caches for days to give others a chance as it seems to make a difference to some people. Having said that, they often remain unclaimed for ages and off I go. Maybe, as has been said before, your “hounds” would have to travel too far to get any other caches and, as they like the sport, your reluctantly-placed caches are the only ones available to them?

 

If someone set a cache that they were desperate for me not to find first, they could send me an email and I’d respect it. I’d find it a bit sad, but I’d respect it. When I started caching, I wasn’t bothered about FTFs; I honestly don’t think newbies are, and it’s more the last F than the first one that matters. It seems to largely to be the misconception of some experienced setters that anyone really cares that much about it.

 

Once the cache has been found, are other people then not bothering as the FTF has gone or does it really make no difference?

 

You could easily make it an unknown type cache with the stipulation that the FTF could only be claimed by someone with a low number of finds. This is going to do wonders for your popularity, though.

 

Of course the other possibility is that there is a personal dislike/vendetta against the FTFer(s), which is a whole new, and prepubescent ball game.

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Personally, I think this would cause more problems than not! The Guidelines do actually state that cache setter should ensure that the cache box is in place before publication.

 

This would then circumvent unnecessary trips by any cacher, finding (or not finding) a non existent box.

 

 

...............and there you have it in a nutshell, no cache, no listing, sorted!

 

E

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Personally, I think this would cause more problems than not! The Guidelines do actually state that cache setter should ensure that the cache box is in place before publication.

 

This would then circumvent unnecessary trips by any cacher, finding (or not finding) a non existent box.

 

 

...............and there you have it in a nutshell, no cache, no listing, sorted!

 

E

 

dadgum! It was worth a try :blink: Give me a few days and I'll come up with another insane idea......hey! booby trapped caches are they allowed?

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I guess you could take it one step further and insist that you will only award a FtF on your hides to any cacher once, and even delete the logs of cachers who ignore this request. But I'm not sure I would support this as a strategy.

 

Just a thought.

Another good idea!

Definitely not a good idea. It would be most annoying to have legimately found a cache and then have the log deleted because you didn't want that person to be FTF.

 

As others have said, why does it matter who's FTF? Someone has to be, and if a person would like to be FTF but usually isn't then clearly they need to try harder :blink:.

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I'm about to place 3 new caches but like most people get a little tired of the same people being FTF...

 

{snip}

 

Comments......thoughts?

 

"Most people"? Can you cite any source for this? I think "most people" couldn't care less about who finds their cache (first) as long as it gets found.

 

The whole idea of hamstringing an arbitrary group of people from finding a cache at any particular time is preposterous. If you think that's a good idea, seems to me what you'd really like to do is publish the cache without coordinates and email them out to those cachers who you feel worthy of finding it? In that case, just skip out the publishing step and email the coords to a few folk. I wonder how many would actually bother to go for it?

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Hey! That was clever.....dadgum!......does it work on all swear words?

Many of them but probably not all! :blink: Mind you, I've never considered D.amn to be a swear word, just a very mild expletive. Perhaps it's different "over the pond".

You can do it with any word you like if you can be @r$ed. Ahem.

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If they could say 'Frankly my dear, I don't give a dadgum' in Gone With The Wind, we should be able to say it here. Grand Prix.

It's a plot by our cousins across the pond to change the English language......well they've done a really good job up to now of kerduffing it up..............DOH! that dadgum word-checker! :blink:

 

BTW......I really did type kerduffing.

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Another possible approach to allow more caches to claim FTF - if that is defined as all cachers finding it on the same day.

Publish the cache but state that it is NOT live until a defined date in say a week. This will enable all to go on that date and be able to justify the UK defined FTF.

Peter

I'll put money on it that if I did that, one of the FTF shark's would still be the first.

 

No, I like Rutsons idea of emailing the coords out to the local cachers who aren't always the FTF and see how many do bother..............I'm going to give it a go as a test...........I'll let you all know how it goes.

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I'm with the Royles on this one - the fun of getting FTF is the challenge in beating the other local cachers to the new cache. If you actively hinder those other local cachers, then surely that detracts from the challenge, and therefore the fun! If they want to be FTF, and keep getting beaten, they simply need to try harder!

 

Generally, everyone has access to the same tips for getting FTF, ie e-mail notifications (for premium members). Most people have broadband, so how hard is it to leave the e-mail program open and monitor it regularly.

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Judging by some of your cache hides, if these two people didn’t go for them as fast as they do, it’d probably be a week or so before anyone else found/looked for them. I see that two people have found 3 each but it’s by no means a huge number.

 

When I log a first to find, I never write Wooooohooooooo!!! FTF!! If what’s annoying you is the person writing “FTF” or “First to Find”, or whatever, consider that they may be doing it so they can search through their records for statistical purposes; I use a program that looks for the phrase “FTF” in all my logs so I can count them. I am, however, a statistician and interested in such things although I use the phrase FTF subtly.

 

I think you’re being unfair. Why don’t you email the people rather than resorting to subterfuge? I think if I found out that someone was doing this to me, I’d not bother finding their caches again anyway. It’s only a game, as the mantra goes, and you now appear to want to spoil it for others who are very keen players.

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If you want someone else other than a FTF hound to get FTF, then you could always publish the cache on a different caching site :blink: . If you just tell a few cachers the coords then IMHO that would make it worthless getting the FTF.

 

In this area (W. Herts) whichever direction I travel there are dedicated FTF hounds, we all have access to the same information, at the same time. Most of us have jobs which keep us occupied during the day (in fact when I was recently briefly unemployed I didn't get any FTFs at all).

 

If anyone else wants to get FTF they can also get the same information, and would mostly have the same opportunities. In other words, the FTF hounds are the ones who want to get FTFs, anyone else obviously can't be bothered. If you don't want a local FTF hound to get the FTF, then don't set the cache. :blink:

 

BTW, Izzy & The Lizard King missed out on a FTF just today, and for once it wasn't to the Bolas Heathens!!! :D

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I remember when we first started caching and the idea of getting a FTF really appealed to us. We had a local FTF Shark at the time who was really quick and we kept getting beaten to it.

 

Then, one time we struck lucky and got our first FTF. As we were signing the log, the FTF Shark came down the path and congratulated us on our FTF. What a great feeling :blink:.

 

If the FTF Shark had been told to let others find the cache first and held off, then we would have felt cheated as it spoils the fun. The whole point in going for a FTF is that you are competing against other cachers to see who finds it first. It's not for everyone but quite a few cachers really enjoy this part of the hobby.

 

Everyone has access to new cache information (even non PM's - it's just a bit more work if you are not a PM) and barring being at work, it's an even playing field. We're addicted FTF Sharks and will dash out for any local caches that come up if we're not doing anything else but would have no problem with anyone trying to beat us to it as it adds to the fun - in fact, we'd positively encourage it as it makes the chase more fun :blink:.

 

I can't understand why a cache setter would deliberately try and manipulate things to ensure a certain cacher does not get a FTF on their cache. There is no big deal or kudos with getting a FTF on a cache - people go for FTF's for a personal something to enhance their caching as they know other cachers will be looking for it too.

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That word sensor is getting annoying....... What if you were genuinely telling a person how to get to a cache...

 

" You need to go toward Peterborough and go down the A234 you will come to a dadgum on your left hand side. Park by the dadgum and walk accross the dadgum wall. The cache is hidden behind the wooden sculpture of an a** kicking a barrell.

 

Surely they must realise that most of us are adults and they have mods to deal with the ones that break the rules.... :blink:

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I think that anything that effectively excludes a bunch of cachers from finding your cache is not in the spirit of the game, and is only going to end up p*$$*ng people off and they might just give up on your caches altogether.

 

Making a cache MO is actually MORE likely to mean that the FTF hounds get it first, 'cos it's the members who can set up PQs and alerts to notify them when new caches appear, and by excluding non members then you're excluding those who might otherwise get FTF by chance or happy coincidence.

 

In my view the best and most reasonable thing to do is to publish the cache and ask the reviewers (via a reviewer note) that it gets published on a Saturday or Sunday morning, which will mean that at least those who work during the week get a chance, If you ask for it to be published late Friday or Saturday then the FTF hounds would probably do a night time raid for it.

 

But when all's said and done I don't think this is worth getting worked up about. :blink:

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I personally dont mind the old regs finding our caches first. Its funny to see which of them makes it first and they are all nice people, good to chat to.

 

But each to their own I guess. one idea if it is really troubling, you is to set up a couple of caches called FTF STUMPER 1,2,3 or something like that. Then make it a really hard puzzle to find the cache..... mega hard.... then email all the local cachers who havent had an FTF the coordinates for the cache. Once a few have found it revert the puzzle to an easier one and the cache becomes just another cache.

 

Its up to you but half the fun of getting an FTF (if you care about them) is knowing youve beaten the FTF sharks to it. If you exclude them you might alliienate them to your caches.

 

Whatever you decide to do in the end good luck :blink:

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I recently moved to Bristol where there appear to be a couple of FTF'ers who live close to me. Rather than deter me, it's made me even more determined to head out and try to find a new cache first. There's nothing like a healthy bit of competion every now and again!!

 

I really wouldn't worry about people heading out to find your caches quickly - personally I think it's a great compliment that they think your caches are worth the effort of finding.

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No, I like Rutsons idea of emailing the coords out to the local cachers who aren't always the FTF and see how many do bother..............I'm going to give it a go as a test...........I'll let you all know how it goes.

Or better still, get a geocaching mate to sign the log as FTF before placing the cache!

I am of course joking.

 

You could always do as (at least one) others do, open a second account and as you place the cache your alter ego signs as FTF :blink:

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You will never defeat nor should you attempt to defeat a FTF hound after all its thier drug of choice. Some people can and do get quite irate about claiming FTF's some even appologise when they are second to find !! it does produce some odd behaviour and logs at times.

 

What you can try to do is level the playing field if 90% of your local cachers work monday to friday release your caches on friday or saturday night.

 

What you need is more people trying to get there for the FTF not trying to stop the one or two who seem to be annoying you.

 

Edit

 

Ditto with marty sorry missed your post

 

I can see lots of FTF hound replies in this thread BTW ;)

Edited by markandlynn
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We have a very successful FTF'r local to us, he has committed to placing a new cache every time he is FTF on a cache, thereby allowing another cacher the chance of being FTF! I thought this was an awesome idea...

 

So... In each of your three new caches, why don't you place three ready to go micro caches... the rule of the FTF logging being, that the FTF'r MUST place the micro within 10 days of being FTF?

 

Jon

Edited by dakar4x4
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What a great idea - I know we'd be more than happy to do this if we were FTF. We'd probably place a bigger cache than a micro (unless we had a sneaky urban location in mind) but the idea is really good ;).

 

We have a very successful FTF'r local to us, he has committed to placing a new cache every time he is FTF on a cache, thereby allowing another cacher the chance of being FTF! I thought this was an awesome idea...

 

So... In each of your three new caches, why don't you place three ready to go micro caches... the rule of the FTF logging being, that the FTF'r MUST place the micro within 10 days of being FTF?

 

Jon

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We'd probably place a bigger cache than a micro (unless we had a sneaky urban location in mind) but the idea is really good ;).

 

I mentioned a Micro as they would be fairly easy to put inside another cache and be taken away as a complete ready-to go item... But yes, whatever could be fitted inside, or indeed, alongside each other, log one, take the other away to place somewhere else! In both cases though, if it is a requirement to place another cache upon being FTF on one, then it would only be polite to include the necessary cache/container/stickers/log book etc... with the original cache. I guess this makes placing a cache a bit more expensive, but then if you are that committed to getting other folks to be FTF, then that is a small price to pay?

 

J

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What a great idea - I know we'd be more than happy to do this if we were FTF. We'd probably place a bigger cache than a micro (unless we had a sneaky urban location in mind) but the idea is really good ;).

 

We have a very successful FTF'r local to us, he has committed to placing a new cache every time he is FTF on a cache, thereby allowing another cacher the chance of being FTF! I thought this was an awesome idea...

 

So... In each of your three new caches, why don't you place three ready to go micro caches... the rule of the FTF logging being, that the FTF'r MUST place the micro within 10 days of being FTF?

 

Jon

Bad luck this morning John :yikes: we thought it was closer to Izzy's area than yours though :sad: but it does show off one of the best bits of shropshire ;) , always nice to see its not a one horse race these days.

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No problem - it's all part of the fun of a FTF dash. I have to go cross country for about half the journey there so it takes a lot longer than Izzy & Paul on the main roads. It's a lovely location that perfectly showcases our beautiful county so was well worth the journey :yikes:.

 

Bad luck this morning John ;) we thought it was closer to Izzy's area than yours though :sad: but it does show off one of the best bits of shropshire ;) , always nice to see its not a one horse race these days.

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So... In each of your three new caches, why don't you place three ready to go micro caches... the rule of the FTF logging being, that the FTF'r MUST place the micro within 10 days of being FTF?

 

Which would mean the cache had a Mandatory Logging Requirement and so would have to be listed as a Puzzle cache :mad:

 

Caches with mandatory requirements in addition to signing the logbook should be listed as mystery caches. Examples include sending the cache owner a verification codeword found inside the logbook, performing some task at the cache location and taking a photograph, or writing the online log in a format or with content that satisfies the cache requirements. The mystery cache designation assists finders in identifying that something extra is required in order to log a find.

 

<_<

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Who cares who finds it first, me I am just glad folk think any of my caches are worth hunting for. So if someone wants to hurtle around the countryside or the Toon trying to beat others to it, thats fine by me.

 

The game is there to be played in many ways and lets face it, its like golf or Achery or something you do this to please yourself and better your own score. In the end you are your own opponent.

 

Happy Hunting folks.

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