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Do the moderators look at cache type


Delta68

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Surely this one is a multi not an unknown.

 

and I've seen several others like it

 

whereas ones like this should be an unknown rather than a multi.

and there's quite a few more like this as well.

 

When we set our first cache we erroneously called it a traditional when it was infact an offset/multi. We later changed the clues so it was a trad after comments from other cachers...

 

I would have thought it quite important to get it right as cache type is the only thing that cannot be changed at a later date.

 

 

 

Mark

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Surely this one is a multi not an unknown.

 

and I've seen several others like it

 

whereas ones like this should be an unknown rather than a multi.

and there's quite a few more like this as well.

 

When we set our first cache we erroneously called it a traditional when it was infact an offset/multi. We later changed the clues so it was a trad after comments from other cachers...

 

I would have thought it quite important to get it right as cache type is the only thing that cannot be changed at a later date.

 

 

 

Mark

 

I think both of those are multi's to me an unknown mystery involves working something out at home.

 

I know this one was plnated before the unknown cache type was created but it should be a mystery as you need to work stuff out before heading off for the coords.

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I'm sure we can be confident that the reviewers do look at the cache type during the review process, but with currently 150-250 new caches a week in the UK (plus all the other activities they have to do) I hope we can forgive them if something slips through.

 

However, I would suggest that no-one can make any statement about Blithfield Church until they've found it. Yes, on reading the cache page it may seem like a straightforward two-virtual-stage multi, but that doesn't mean that there aren't some other challenges to be overcome along the way :D.

 

And in any case, the difference between Multi and Mystery is entirely in the eye of the cacher. The guidelines don't force things one way or the other (except for the obvious, such as puzzles needing to be solved from home before setting out).

 

FWIW, my view is that Motorway Mayhem M5 J1 to J3 Bonus Cache is a Mystery not a Multi. In fact, the Feb 2007 guidelines update tried to clarify this by saying that for Multis the main coords must be those of the first stage. This should prevent bonus caches from being anything but a Mystery. But many multis don't have the main coords as the first stage.

 

My further view - and I believe this is the thinking behind the guideline change - is that for a Multi I should be able, without prior research or finds - to go to the published coords and find something which will enable me to continue the trail. If the published coords don't do that then it's a Mystery.

 

As with many things, the best course of action is to mail the owner and/or the reviewer who published it and ask whether he thinks the cache type is correct.

Edited by Alan White
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.. to me an unknown mystery involves working something out at home...

 

Er... no...

You have an 'unknown' cache of your own that doesn't involve working anything out at home :D

 

Grinshill just turning up with a gps wont get you anywhere

 

Pretty in pink just turning up at the start point getzs you no where

 

How healthy pure puzzle

 

All require more than just turning up at the start point as AW has correctly pointed out.

 

I have on occasion emailed an owner / mod to say isnt this a multi or mystery etc.

 

In the end there is no substitute for reading the cache page

 

edit to add the moderators can change cache type its just the owner who cant.

Edited by markandlynn
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FWIW, my view is that Motorway Mayhem M5 J1 to J3 Bonus Cache is a Mystery not a Multi. In fact, the Feb 2007 guidelines update tried to clarify this by saying that for Multis the main coords must be those of the first stage. This should prevent bonus caches from being anything but a Mystery. But many multis don't have the main coords as the first stage.

 

Quite right, however that cache was placed before the guidelines were changed. In the few years we have been caching, the guidelines have changed several times. It's quite possible that lots of caches out there may be classified incorrectly now, but were perfectly okay given the accepted interpretation at the time of publishing.

 

As for new caches, with the sheer volume going through, I can understand why one or two might slip through the net. When I notice this, I usually just email the relevant reviewer who can then make the decision to change it if need be. It's much quicker to resolve that way, rather than having a forum thread each time one slips through.

Edited by Pengy&Tigger
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Quite right, however that cache was placed before the guidelines were changed. In the few years we have been caching, the guidelines have changed several times. It's quite possible that lots of caches out there may be classified incorrectly now, but were perfectly okay given the accepted interpretation at the time of publishing.

Absolutely right. I did have that thought in my mind when I wrote the post. It just didn't make it to my fingers :D. Thanks for clarifying.

 

That said, I would have considered that cache (and indeed all bonus caches) to be a Mystery even before the Feb 2007 update.

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As it is my cache pehaps I had better reply! I chose mystery because the co-ordinates have to be worked out rather than just being read on a piece of paper in a 35mm film cannister. I did look at some others (custom and practice) before coming to my decision. However I am quite happy to change it.

 

You cant change chache type, its the only thing on a listing you cant edit im affraid. :D

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As it is my cache pehaps I had better reply! I chose mystery because the co-ordinates have to be worked out rather than just being read on a piece of paper in a 35mm film cannister. I did look at some others (custom and practice) before coming to my decision. However I am quite happy to change it.

 

You cant change chache type, its the only thing on a listing you cant edit im affraid. :D

 

You can always ask a reviewer to change the cache type for you.

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They certainly do check it. I set up my first cache last weekend and it was initially sent back to me as I'd forgotten to change it to a Multi from the default Trad.

In fact i've been fairly lucky in that the only times the cache has not matched the type stated is when you have had to find several caches and then one final cache, in this case they were all labled as multis when the first three were trads that were part of a multi. Otherwise no problems from me.

 

With the cache in question I can see why the owner selected it, and fair enough.

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I think HH could call this either a Multi / Offset, or a Mystery, reading the various Cache type descriptions it could fit into either category; but saying this, we do normally see this type as a Multi / Offset type.

 

Multi-Cache (offset Cache)

A multi-cache ("multiple") involves two or more locations, the final location being a physical container. There are many variations, but most multi-caches have a hint to find the second cache, and the second cache has hints to the third, and so on. An offset cache (where you go to a location and get hints to the actual cache) is considered a multi-cache.

 

Mystery or puzzle caches

The “catch-all” of cache types, this form of cache can involve complicated puzzles you will first need to solve to determine the coordinates. The only commonality of this cache type is that the coordinates listed are not of the actual cache location but a general reference point, such as a nearby parking location. Due to the increasing creativity of geocaching this becomes the staging ground for new and unique challenges.

 

But I am sure I will be able to sleep well tonight, knowing it is marked as a Mystery. I think there are worse sins in cache types, such as setting a Traditional cache up and using the Parking coords as the main coords!

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As it was me who reviewed the first cache mentioned I have to hold up my hands and admit I made a mistake in not noticing it was miscategorised. <_<

 

Be assured there's no conspiracy, no hidden agenda just pure incompetence :P !!!

 

In general the rule of thumb I use is that if you can solve the clues "on the ground" it's a multi and if you need to do research elsewhere it's a puzzle. It can be an imprecise science and I (and the other reviewers) have certainly been pulled up over various caches in the past. I have no doubt we'll get it wrong in the future too so please feel free to let us know either by posting a log on the cache, in which case the owner will be notified and they can ask myself or my colleagues to make the change or if that fails, contact us direct.

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As it was me who reviewed the first cache mentioned I have to hold up my hands and admit I made a mistake in not noticing it was miscategorised. :P

 

Be assured there's no conspiracy, no hidden agenda just pure incompetence :) !!!

 

 

Here lads I reckon it was one of those "Ill jush do this reevew cash thing befaw i go to bed 'hiccup' :D" moments after another notorious night out on the tiles......tut tut tut.

:P<_<:)

 

EDITED TO ADD

 

SORRY THE ABOVE WAS A TYPO

 

Here lads these reviewers are really under pressure to read and approve all our caches and it must be a really demanding job. I think we should all have three chears for our reviewers in the UK HIP HIP............. :D:mad::mad::mad::mad::D

Edited by Vodor
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As it was me who reviewed the first cache mentioned I have to hold up my hands and admit I made a mistake in not noticing it was miscategorised. :D

 

Be assured there's no conspiracy, no hidden agenda just pure incompetence :P !!!

 

 

Here lads I reckon it was one of those "Ill jush do this reevew cash thing befaw i go to bed 'hiccup' :)" moments after another notorious night out on the tiles......tut tut tut.

 

:P<_<:)

 

 

Ohhhhhhh Deeeaaarrrrr, and Launceston is in my review area :D:mad::mad::mad::mad:

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The two caches I mentioned originally were just two that I had happened upon that week. I could have post other examples.

 

This one for example has only had two visits and I wouldn't be suprised if this was partly due to that fact that it's listed as a puzzle rather than a multi.

 

We quite often go to an area with two or three caches in mind and then see what else it in the area when we get there. Looking at the icons on MemoryMap, we'd more than likely skip over an unknown and do a multi or traditional instead

 

I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with them - just that they more often than not require prior planning.

Edited by Delta68
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The two caches I mentioned originally were just two that I had happened upon that week. I could have post other examples.

 

This one for example has only had two visits and I wouldn't be suprised if this was partly due to that fact that it's listed as a puzzle rather than a multi.

 

We quite often go to an area with two or three caches in mind and then see what else it in the area when we get there. Looking at the icons on MemoryMap, we'd more than likely skip over an unknown and do a multi or traditional instead

 

I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with them - just that they more often than not require prior planning.

 

...which would maybe put you off doing a series if it's 'bonus' was marked as a mystery rather than a bonus...

 

I am beginning to wonder if we need a new category purely for PUZZLE Caches, as there seems to be lots of discussion about Multi/ Mystery! Our Salford Seven Series is marked as a Multi, as all you have to do is find the other 7 to find number 8...but as someone on my forum pointed out, if they looked on MemoryMap they would be well cross if they went to the co-ords for the Multi and found nothing there...then again they'd be going round and round a roundabout, so they'd get the message eventually *lol* and also hopefully the BONUS in the title (and the other 7 caches VERY nearby) should give it away! So there is a differnece between BONUSes from series and Offset Multis...neither of which, in my opinion, is a mystery!

 

Personally (being a control freak!) I don't leave home without having read the listing page, checked Google Earth, read the listing page, checked the OS website, read the listing page, checked out all the TB listing pages, read the listing page, bought the paper map, read the listing page....get it? *lol*

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............. so please feel free to let us know either by posting a log on the cache, in which case the owner will be notified and they can ask myself or my colleagues to make the change or if that fails, contact us direct.

Indeed. But it would be useful to have some guidance as to the circumstances under which a perceived misclassified cache should be brought to the owner's or your attention. As this thread shows, the guidelines are far from clear on the distinction between Multi and Mystery.

 

One example given many times in this thread is bonus caches. I would always class these as Mystery, but as bikermel76 says, not everyone does. If we can agree on bonus caches then maybe we can work from there :mad:.

 

My argument for bonus caches being Mystery is that for a multi "The posted coordinates are for the first stage.". This can never be the case for a bonus, therefore a bonus can never be a multi.

 

Yes? No? Maybe? <_<

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But it would be useful to have some guidance as to the circumstances under which a perceived misclassified cache should be brought to the owner's or your attention.

 

In general the rule of thumb I use is that if you can solve the clues "on the ground" it's a multi and if you need to do research elsewhere it's a puzzle. It can be an imprecise science and I (and the other reviewers) have certainly been pulled up over various caches in the past. I have no doubt we'll get it wrong in the future too so please feel free to let us know either by posting a log on the cache, in which case the owner will be notified and they can ask myself or my colleagues to make the change or if that fails, contact us direct.

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But it would be useful to have some guidance as to the circumstances under which a perceived misclassified cache should be brought to the owner's or your attention.

 

In general the rule of thumb I use is that if you can solve the clues "on the ground" it's a multi and if you need to do research elsewhere it's a puzzle. It can be an imprecise science and I (and the other reviewers) have certainly been pulled up over various caches in the past. I have no doubt we'll get it wrong in the future too so please feel free to let us know either by posting a log on the cache, in which case the owner will be notified and they can ask myself or my colleagues to make the change or if that fails, contact us direct.

 

I follow the same method as my colleague. :D

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The guidelines say that Mystery is the "catch-all" of cache types. I take that to mean that any cache can be listed as a mystery.

 

If the owner - particularly a newbie - submits a cache as a Mystery which looks like a Multi, the reviewer might ask them to confirm, but the owner should always be able to insist that it's a Mystery. After all, when people find it and it looks just like a Multi, they can say "well, why wasn't that a Multi" and their cache buddy can shrug and say "dunno, it's a Mystery to me". :D

 

The inverse isn't true and if you see a Traditional cache which isn't at the coordinates, or a Multi which isn't solvable starting at WP1 with just the cache listing, then I would contact the owner and/or the reviewer.

 

I've seen Mystery used for:

- Trads (the Mystery is that there is no Mystery; this sounds lame but I've seen it used to produce some beautiful puzzles)

- Multis, incorrectly

- Multis, correctly according to US practice (in the US, a Multi generally has lots of micros with coords of the next point; the "count the letters on the sign" type of clue is often considered as a Mystery over there)

- Bonus caches

- Caches with a devious puzzle on the page

- Caches where you find a box at WP1 containing puzzles to solve (the record is one with a Game Boy, reprogrammed with a custom game - you have to avoid being crushed by falling Geocoins to get through the level, at which point it gives you the coords!)

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But it would be useful to have some guidance as to the circumstances under which a perceived misclassified cache should be brought to the owner's or your attention.

 

In general the rule of thumb I use is that if you can solve the clues "on the ground" it's a multi and if you need to do research elsewhere it's a puzzle. It can be an imprecise science and I (and the other reviewers) have certainly been pulled up over various caches in the past. I have no doubt we'll get it wrong in the future too so please feel free to let us know either by posting a log on the cache, in which case the owner will be notified and they can ask myself or my colleagues to make the change or if that fails, contact us direct.

 

I follow the same method as my colleague. :D

 

I can back up Deceangi on this, he sent one of mine back because I had listed it as Puzzle when it was solvable 'on the ground' without other research.

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The guidelines say that Mystery is the "catch-all" of cache types. I take that to mean that any cache can be listed as a mystery.

 

If the owner - particularly a newbie - submits a cache as a Mystery which looks like a Multi, the reviewer might ask them to confirm, but the owner should always be able to insist that it's a Mystery.

Absolutely. As I said earlier, no-one can say whether a Mystery is really a Mystery until they've found the cache in the manner intended by the owner. Just because the description makes it seem like a multi doesn't mean that it's that straightforward.

 

- Multis, correctly according to US practice (in the US, a Multi generally has lots of micros with coords of the next point; the "count the letters on the sign" type of clue is often considered as a Mystery over there)

Well they shouldn't be. The guidelines are quite clear on this:
Offset caches are a variation on multi-caches. They are listed as a multi-cache when selecting a cache type. They are not found by simply going to some coordinates and finding a cache there. With the offset cache the published coordinates could be of an existing historical monument, plaque, or even a benchmark that you would like to have your cache hunter visit. At this spot, the hunter looks for numbers or information already appearing on the marker or on some part of the marker or site (geocachers NEVER deface public or private property). The geocacher is then able to manipulate these numbers or information using instructions posted on the cache page to continue the hunt.

And this gives us the explanation for this and the many other debates on the subject. The guidelines are either too woolly or inconsistently applied. This may be by design, and I can see the need for flexibility in some circumstances. However, as the number of caches increases it becomes more and more important that cachers can quickly identify the sort of caches they like to look for. A suitable set of cache types and their correct assignment is the most important starting point.

 

- Bonus caches

We've still not got to the bottom of even that simple scenario, so I'm not holding out much hope for the rest :D.
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But it would be useful to have some guidance as to the circumstances under which a perceived misclassified cache should be brought to the owner's or your attention.

 

In general the rule of thumb I use is that if you can solve the clues "on the ground" it's a multi and if you need to do research elsewhere it's a puzzle. It can be an imprecise science and I (and the other reviewers) have certainly been pulled up over various caches in the past. I have no doubt we'll get it wrong in the future too so please feel free to let us know either by posting a log on the cache, in which case the owner will be notified and they can ask myself or my colleagues to make the change or if that fails, contact us direct.

I'm going to press you on this, Peter, because I think with a little push we can get something definitive :D.

 

A (The most?) common sort of bonus cache is one where you collect partial coords or letters/numbers from a set of trads. The bonus cache page (or one or more of the trads) has instructions on how to use the information to find the bonus.

 

Is that information "on the ground"? It's certainly only obtainable in the field rather than from Google. Or is it "elsewhere" because it's in other caches?

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But it would be useful to have some guidance as to the circumstances under which a perceived misclassified cache should be brought to the owner's or your attention.

 

In general the rule of thumb I use is that if you can solve the clues "on the ground" it's a multi and if you need to do research elsewhere it's a puzzle. It can be an imprecise science and I (and the other reviewers) have certainly been pulled up over various caches in the past. I have no doubt we'll get it wrong in the future too so please feel free to let us know either by posting a log on the cache, in which case the owner will be notified and they can ask myself or my colleagues to make the change or if that fails, contact us direct.

I'm going to press you on this, Peter, because I think with a little push we can get something definitive :huh: .

 

A (The most?) common sort of bonus cache is one where you collect partial coords or letters/numbers from a set of trads. The bonus cache page (or one or more of the trads) has instructions on how to use the information to find the bonus.

 

Is that information "on the ground"? It's certainly only obtainable in the field rather than from Google. Or is it "elsewhere" because it's in other caches?

Again, difficult to be absolutely definitive but I would tend towards making such a Bonus cache a multi. However, you rightly suggest that you do not follow a simple trail from one intermediate to another. This is one of those grey areas where the Reviewers earn their salary :ph34r: by trying to interpret the guidelines. We sometimes get it wrong or you may sometimes disagree with our conclusions but it's the best we can do without making the game any more prescriptive than it is at the moment.

 

At the end of the day it's only a hunt for a plastic lunchbox in the woods (or micro behind a road sign ;) )!!

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At the end of the day it's only a hunt for a plastic lunchbox in the woods (or micro behind a road sign ;) )!!

 

I fully agree

Ive noticed lately that a few people seem to be overanalysing the game (sport) to death.

 

A game (sport) that is too overregulated and has too many rules just isnt fun anymore. There are things we would all like to change about the site but a change that one person is desperate for will make others unhappy. Best just to leave it as it is and keep the fun factor there. If anyone is interested in tying everything up in red tape and nailing a rule to everything then go into politics. :ph34r:;):huh:

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