Why do they remain quiet?

[Rhialto]

I don't know if it's a welcome question but with soooooo many people complaining, I still don't understand there is not a single thread dedicated to instructions on what's going on, what's being worked now NOW as a top priority, once solved the next thing they will be woking on. A complete of reported problems and a checkbox next to each when it's solved. Also what they will be able to do and what they won't be because of the new software, there may be new features but some limitation too.

 

It would be (to my knowledge) so simple to just inform us subscribers and supporters.

 

I was ready to wait a little more knowing you must be working hard on this but I had to ask this because you should be proud of the work you're doing for all of us and be excited to communicate what's going on instead of hiding and remaining quiet while level of angry of everyone is getting higher with every visit.

 

Ok I can write all this again but in french and I believe it will sound better...

[+The Leprechauns]

1. The Announcements forum is a good place to check for official updates.

2. A single thread for all feature improvements being worked on would get very messy very quickly. I like how questions are addressed individually, in separate threads. I follow the ones that are of interest to me.

3. Did you read OpinioNate's thread about how he will be more involved in monitoring the forums and responding? Give him a few days.

4. I've been around a few years, and remember when Jeremy committed to deadlines a few times. "The new _____ will be released by no later than ____." Then something happens, like a server capacity problem, and that project gets put aside and the deadline was missed. Then the forum threads complained about how a deadline was missed. After that happened enough times, Groundspeak quit announcing timetables and future plans. I can understand why.

[CoyoteRed]

After that happened enough times, Groundspeak quit announcing timetables and future plans.

Now it just looks like they're not doing anything, but little tweaks here and there.

[+The Leprechauns]

... with the operative words being "looks like." If the website's going to receive a thorough overhaul, it seems logical to expect nothing but tweaks and fixes in the meantime. Jeremy just reminded us of this a week ago, when he posted in *another* thread begun by rhialto on the same subject. Here, he explained the difference between the recent codebase upgrade and version 2 of the website:

 

Since the update is an architectural change and not really a new conceptual site you should expect to see the same functionality on the current site but with a new database and codebase. There will be some visible changes since we're taking into account usability in the new design but it shouldn't shock you when the change happens.

 

Once we get to the point where the v2 (now codenamed Phoenix) project has something tangible to show we'll make attempts to reveal it to the broader community. However this is a very long project so changes may be slow coming. Geocaching.com may look straightforward as a site but it has many nuances that need to be addressed in a new architecture so we can sustain growth over the next 5 years.

[+benh57]

Sorry, but those excuses just don't fly. Nate posted they are listening, but they really don't seem to be. They don't need to promise anything, just post the occasional acknowledgment.

 

A sticky post from a mod listing 'known issues' in a single edited post would be a good first step. Just listing known bugs with the site, not promises to fix them with any sort of timetable.

[+webscouter.]

Perhaps Groundspeak can send individually handcrafted letters to everyone when they find that an I isn't dotted and a T isn't crossed.

 

As for me, I'm happy that they have indicated that they know that a problem exist and they are working on it. I would prefer that they spend time resolving issues instead of sending out hourly updates that they are working on it.

 

This is one of the few, (maybe the only) international website that I even know who the programmers are. You wouldn't expect Google to let you know they are working on their maps when they have a problem, and they have many more resources (read people) at their disposal.

 

Nate has said they are listening and working on issues. How many times do you want them to reiterate that they are working on issues that they have already stated they are working on?

[+sbell111]

I remember the old days, when Jeremy would pertsonally drive to each of our homes to explain the inner workings of the site.

 

<sigh>

 

Those were the days.

 

BTW, why do technical people use codenames, or was that just Jeremy's dry wit?

Edited October 12, 2007 by sbell111

[Rhialto]

A sticky post from a mod listing 'known issues' in a single edited post would be a good first step. Just listing known bugs with the site.

Absolutly... People would at least know they are not dreaming and there is in fact a problem and that Groundspeak is aware of it too.

[Rhialto]

As for me, I'm happy that they have indicated that they know that a problem exist

"a" problem is too general... there are many issue and everyone is reporting them many times in many thread.

 

I would prefer that they spend time resolving issues instead of sending out hourly updates that they are working on it.

I hope it's not a single person working on it so if we assume they are 2, one could tell the other to go write a little update on a dedicated thread for the thousands of users reading every seconds. It would only takes a minute or 2 to inform the community.

[+mtn-man]

Yesterday at work we had a lot of things going on. My boss kept calling to ask about this and that. I would sometimes have to get up and go into his office for a short meeting. The whole afternoon I was working on a complex spreadsheet. Finally, at the end of the day, he asked me about the spreadsheet. I told him I was close but kept having to go back and forth on it and just needed to get into it and focus and get it done. Five minutes later he asked me about something else and wanted me in his office and I told him I needed to stay focused because the deadline for getting it done was close. He knew I was right and left me alone.

 

It is best to stay focused. You get more done more efficiently much faster. Having someone come in every 15 minutes to talk about a new topic will never get things done. You stay focused and regroup at the end of the day or in the beginning of the next day. This is a long term project. You need to be patient. They are quiet because they are staying focused and are working on making things better.

[+trainlove]

Back in June there was a posting of why TPTB will not post the planned improvements of Version 2.0. They also stated why they will not post ongoing lists of bugs that are being worked on and will be worked on. I suggest reviewing former posts.

[+Eric K]

Yesterday at work we had a lot of things going on. My boss kept calling to ask about this and that. I would sometimes have to get up and go into his office for a short meeting. The whole afternoon I was working on a complex spreadsheet. Finally, at the end of the day, he asked me about the spreadsheet. I told him I was close but kept having to go back and forth on it and just needed to get into it and focus and get it done. Five minutes later he asked me about something else and wanted me in his office and I told him I needed to stay focused because the deadline for getting it done was close. He knew I was right and left me alone.

 

It is best to stay focused. You get more done more efficiently much faster. Having someone come in every 15 minutes to talk about a new topic will never get things done. You stay focused and regroup at the end of the day or in the beginning of the next day. This is a long term project. You need to be patient. They are quiet because they are staying focused and are working on making things better.

 

Well said. I do some work in IT and it drives us crazy when we let everyone know as an example. "Network printing is down and we are working on the problem"

 

Well then we we get calls every 2 minute asking for updates that puts us further and further behind on fixing the problem.

 

Try using the same thing we try to tell people. If you can't print right now then you can still do some other job functions that don't require printing.

 

Same thing here, if a certain function isn't working we can still look up caches and actually go caching!

[+Team Taran]

To add my 2 cents worth. It clearly does very little good to try and communicate with most of the people who use this forum. There is a pinned post at the top of the page with information on how to report site issues. The number of people who follow the suggestion and include all information in their email is very small. I do very limited tech support in my job. It is almost impossible to trouble shoot a problem without the required information.

Team Taran

[Rhialto]

Well said. I do some work in IT and it drives us crazy when we let everyone know as an example. "Network printing is down and we are working on the problem"

 

Well then we we get calls every 2 minute asking for updates that puts us further and further behind on fixing the problem.

Funny, it's also my job and we are doing it very different from you...

 

If something wrong happen that affect many users we either put a message on the answer machine letting them know we are aware of the problem and we are curreently working on it as of now and/or we can also send a email through GroupWise to inform and/or we can also send a network instant message from the server console. This way people stop calling and we can focus on working the problem instead of receiving plenty of email and plenty of calls.

 

Anyway, maybe all together we could grab all what's broken and display the list on a pinned message. Then testing each point here and then until it is fixed we could then mark it as solved. Everyone would then be informed and would stop start a new thread because this is broken, that doen't work. If it's listed then being working on then they will simply wait until the checkmark appear and rejoice.

Edited October 12, 2007 by Rhialto

[+Sagefox]

As for me, I'm happy that they have indicated that they know that a problem exist and they are working on it. I would prefer that they spend time resolving issues instead of sending out hourly updates that they are working on it.

 

That about says it all for me too. Thanks webscouter.

[+mtn-man]

If something wrong happen that affect many users we either put a message on the answer machine letting them know we are aware of the problem and we are curreently working on it as of now and/or we can also send a email through GroupWise to inform and/or we can also send a network instant message from the server console. This way people stop calling and we can focus on working the problem instead of receiving plenty of email and plenty of calls.

That is what the Geocaching Announcements Forum is for. It was posted three days ago that there would testing 10-9 and 10-12 (and beyond).

 

Anyway, maybe all together we could grab all what's broken and display the list on a pinned message. Then testing each point here and then until it is fixed we could then mark it as solved. Everyone would then be informed and would stop start a new thread because this is broken, that doen't work. If it's listed then being working on then they will simply wait until the checkmark appear and rejoice.

In that topic, Jeremy asked that topics be posted here if you see something going on. It is easier to check posted topics to see if there are user issues. They will not respond in all of those topics. They do check them though. By posting a topic here (or using the bug reporting method that Raine posted in the pinned topic), the issue can be kept separate and will probably be less likely to fall into a crack in a 10 page long pinned catch-all topic (which would not be well organized).

 

Make sense? It sounds like it follows what you say except for a pinned catch-all topic.

Edited October 12, 2007 by mtn-man

[Rhialto]

yep... only moderator can edit over and over a message so we cannot write a single message and keep editing to add what people report to be broken and edit also when something is fixed.

 

Anyway it was a suggestion and I'm about to be quiet myself as I don't want to be hasted from anyone.

 

Thanks for everything! It was my 1st summer geocaching and it's just the beginning! I really like being part of the community of this activity I enjoy a lot now, maybe I will slow down later.

[+mtn-man]

I have had a thought that might be a good suggested implementation.

 

I rarely notice the Announcements Forum myself. I am part of another forum board as a regular user. There is an Site Announcements Forum there too (also read only). In that forum there is one topic called "IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT!". Whenever there is a major site announcement, they post a link to it there. Everyone who wants to know instantly about site announcements subscribes to that topic. When I see an email in my inbox with that title, I know something is going on. Rather than having to subscribe to an entire forum, we can just subscribe to that one topic. Other posted topics there that are not as important don't have to be read unless you want to check that forum. If something really major is going on though, I get the message from the "IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT!" topic I subscribe to. It has been highly successful.

[+Mopar]

I have had a thought that might be a good suggested implementation.

 

I rarely notice the Announcements Forum myself. I am part of another forum board as a regular user. There is an Site Announcements Forum there too (also read only). In that forum there is one topic called "IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT!". Whenever there is a major site announcement, they post a link to it there. Everyone who wants to know instantly about site announcements subscribes to that topic. When I see an email in my inbox with that title, I know something is going on. Rather than having to subscribe to an entire forum, we can just subscribe to that one topic. Other posted topics there that are not as important don't have to be read unless you want to check that forum. If something really major is going on though, I get the message from the "IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT!" topic I subscribe to. It has been highly successful.

I just subscribe to the Announcements forum. Then, whenever there is a post there I get it emailed to me. Since the announcements forum is used for nothing BUT site announcements, it works very well. For example:

Mopar,

 

Jeremy has just posted a new topic entitled "More Testing Today" in forum "Geocaching Announcements".

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Expect some downtime today while we switch back and forth between the old code and the new code. If things go well over the

course of the day we'll leave the new site changes online. If you see anything odd please post it in the

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showforum=8.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The topic can be found here:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=175132

 

Please note that if you wish to get email notification of any replies to this topic, you will have to click on the

"Track this Topic" link shown on the topic page, or by visiting the link below:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...=4&t=175132

 

Unsubscribing:

--------------

 

You can unsubscribe at any time by logging into your control panel and clicking on the "View Subscriptions" link.

If you are not subscribed to any forums and wish to stop receiving notification, uncheck the setting

"Send me any updates sent by the board administrator" found in 'My Controls' under 'Email Settings'.

 

Regards,

 

The Groundspeak Forums team.

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php

[+Renegade Knight]

....It would be (to my knowledge) so simple to just inform us subscribers and supporters....

 

Groundspeak isn't very good at informing us subscribers on much of anything. Partly policy and partly practice.

 

However a leader board style list of improvments that are "on the list" would be nice. The ones they are working on could be at the top and the ones they want to work on next in the middle and the ones they would like to do if they can, someday, maybe, if they live long enough at the bottom.

 

You can color code it for easy reading. You can also put a vote function on it so subscribers can vote on what they want to see next. Every now and then that may pop something up the list that was a low priority for GC.com but a high priority for subscribers.

 

Projects are not static. Servers blow up and eclips the #1 thing until they are done. But you could even make those annoucments in such a list with a simple "click for details" on the line item.

[+Wilhelm Reich]

Sorry, but those excuses just don't fly. Nate posted they are listening, but they really don't seem to be. They don't need to promise anything, just post the occasional acknowledgment.

 

A sticky post from a mod listing 'known issues' in a single edited post would be a good first step. Just listing known bugs with the site, not promises to fix them with any sort of timetable.

 

Here! Here!

 

Just a listing with known bugs and current system problems without any fixing timetable would go a long way for me to know where a problem I'm experiencing originates-- at my end on my own computer or on the Web site (and code) at their end, or maybe somewhere along the route (maybe my ISP?). As it is, I've spent about a dozen hours trying to find out why the new google maps suddenly stopped displaying at all for me--just the map page with a blank map in the center of all the other information on the page. From my searching the forums I have found that there are at least a few others with this very same problem. But I don't know if the problem is on our collective systems (maybe we all use the same browser and it has become incompatible with the new map code) or whether it is a GC coding bug that only targets something that we collectively share on our computers and bypasses other people's machines.

 

My system worked previously with the "new maps" but has stopped working since around 4 or 5 days ago I'm not sure of exactly when because I might not use that feature for a few days at a time). It now appears that the map data is not even being downloaded to my machine; my system has no map data to display, but why not? After a dozen hours, I still have no clue. BTW, all the other map links continue to work just fine as they did previously; only the "geocaching.com google map" is a problem--and it is totally broken!

 

It's a little amusing to see people complaining in the forums about how they are not being able to access this feature or some other feature on the map page.

 

I CAN'T EVEN SEE THE (deleted by moderator) MAP ANY MORE!

 

--WR

Edited October 22, 2007 by mtn-man

[+Wilhelm Reich]

To add my 2 cents worth. It clearly does very little good to try and communicate with most of the people who use this forum. There is a pinned post at the top of the page with information on how to report site issues. The number of people who follow the suggestion and include all information in their email is very small. I do very limited tech support in my job. It is almost impossible to trouble shoot a problem without the required information.

Team Taran

 

They must have rewritten that pinned topic since you last read it. It now reads:

 

[bEGIN quote]

 

"Raine

Jul 24 2007, 01:33 PM

Post #1

 

Platinum Member Support

 

Group: Premium Members

Posts: 663

Joined: 17-April 04

From: Center of the known universe

 

I wanted to just post a note on some guidelines for posting a site issue to this forum.

 

If you come across an issue and are able to readily repeat the process for which it happens please follow these steps.

 

1. If you run other browsers on your system try and see if it happen there as well.

 

2. Review forum topics and see if someone else has posted something similar.

 

3. Create or add to an already existing topic.

 

4. Post the following information for the issue:

Your Operating System: Windows XP, Mac 10.4, etc..

Your Browser with Version number: IE 7.0, Firefox 2.01, Opera 9.1

Cache GC code if the error occurred there

Any URL's that you feel would help.

 

5. If I can not repeat the issue, I can not repair it. So the extra information is a must.

 

Thanks for helping me help you!

 

-Raine

 

--------------------

Raine Lightner

Lead Developer :: Geocaching.com

Groundspeak, Inc."

 

[END quote]

 

Please note item #3:

 

"3. Create or add to an already existing topic."

 

There is no place to e-mail such requests as you stated (and apparently was a previous policy that is no longer in effect). Forums are now the official place for posting Web site issues as well as users' system problems.

 

BTW, I followed the above instructions without response from GC. But at least by posting these problems in the forums, then a fellow user might be able to help me out. That's a big advantage when using these forums instead of sending GC e-mails about my problems. It also implies that GC tech support is reading these forums in order to become aware of site problems--which must take a much greater amount of time to wade through all the non-problem posts in order to find the problem ones as opposed to just receiving problem e-mails. But at least it saves them the work of posting somewhere about what the problems are that users are experiencing and what they are working on.

 

--WR

[+mtn-man]

They must have rewritten that pinned topic since you last read it.

Actually, the post has never been edited. As you can tell from where I edited out your potty-mouthed language from your post above the one I quoted, the forums automatically add an "edited" line to the post if it is edited. Raine's post has never been edited since it was posted.

 

And please control your language and abide by the forum guidelines linked at the top of the forums.

[+Wilhelm Reich]

...You wouldn't expect Google to let you know they are working on their maps when they have a problem, and they have many more resources (read people) at their disposal.

Yes, that's true. But then again, Google doesn't require ALL it's users to be Alpha Testers by trying out the code changes by replacing parts of their primary Web site with buggy Alpha code and then unleashing it on the consumer to see if it works and how well.

 

As a matter of fact, I've never experienced a problem with the Google Web site. So, I'm assuming that they check and recheck through Alpha and Beta stages (with trained Alpha and Beta Testers on Alpha and Beta isolated systems) before putting the code on their primary site for their users to use.

 

Now, Google is a GIANT company; and I don't expect GC.com to do it anywhere near the same way.

 

However, if GC set up Alpha and then Beta test sites, then users who wanted to volunteer could test the code at the various stages, doing so away from the primary site. Under those circumstances I think there would be a lot fewer complaints from many users who see themselves as involuntary "guinea pigs" (as some have called themselves in the forums here).

 

Since an extra test system would require additional capital investment, perhaps GC could ask users to donate for the extra system. Those who see themselves as unwilling guinea pigs (or otherwise don't wish to be forced to test a Web site with unpolished/unworking code) would probably particularly want to donate to such a fund, don't you think. That way they could continue to use a GC.com that works and still see periodic improvements that are introduced after reasonable testing at the test site.

 

That way, sensitive people who are offended by consumers who complain because they don't think they are getting what they paid for might be offended less frequently, I would guess. Personally, I'm not offended. I love the voice of the people!

 

--WR

[+The Leprechauns]

As a matter of fact, I've never experienced a problem with the Google Web site. So, I'm assuming that they check and recheck through Alpha and Beta stages (with trained Alpha and Beta Testers on Alpha and Beta isolated systems) before putting the code on their primary site for their users to use.

You're likewise assuming that Groundspeak is not doing any testing prior to public release. Is that a safe assumption?

[+LeGodFather]

You're likewise assuming that Groundspeak is not doing any testing prior to public release. Is that a safe assumption?

It was not addressed to me.. but, from my point of view, it does look like it sometimes. For example, when you see something new for a brief period and than it's not there.. that's looks like they are testing stuff live.. I'm not saying they are not testing before.. maybe just not enough?

 

Maybe they shouldn't have the same standards as giants like Goggle or financial institutions because it's a hobby/leisure/sport service.. but, we are still customers.. as we do have expectations..

 

So.. my thoughts on the "known bugs list".. I would like to be able to go to a specific post (tracking it would make it so easy) and know what's going on and not have to browse all over the forum for specific issues.

 

[+The Leprechauns]

You're likewise assuming that Groundspeak is not doing any testing prior to public release. Is that a safe assumption?

It was not addressed to me.. but, from my point of view, it does look like it sometimes. For example, when you see something new for a brief period and than it's not there.. that's looks like they are testing stuff live.. I'm not saying they are not testing before.. maybe just not enough?

The "on again, off again" changes over the past several months are because of the change to the new dot net 2.0 codebase. My understanding, from reading the posts from Groundspeak here and in the Announcements forum, is that the database behaved differently under actual site traffic load conditions. So, they backed off the new version, did some troubleshooting, and tried again.

 

I'm not a programmer, but common sense tells me that an entirely new codebase might perform differently in a production environment versus a test environment.

 

This is different than beta testing a new feature change, at least in my mind.

[robertlipe]

Google keeps coming up as a poster child for process reliability. The reality is that Google site reliability isn't magic; it's well established computer science[1]. Controlling change in code is well understood in the industry. If you set a baseline and enforce that baseline on change, you won't regress.

 

The perceived need for feedback has a lot to do with the loop closure time. Using Eric's "all printers are down, quit asking me when they'll be back up" example, you have to understand how that might work if the printers are down for 9 minutes or maybe even 90 minutes, but not so well if they're down for 9 months. Fill their printouts with yellow pushpins, maps that swap X and Y coords for caches along a route, load timeouts, WAP login errors, and so on for a few months without an update, and you have to understand why the natives are restless. (These tend to not show up in 'Announcements' but are all familiar topics to those that spend any time here.)

 

Fixes for well recognized problems really need to get priority.

 

I don't hear anyone here asking for minute-by-minute blows. Even if I did, I'd join the side that it's unreasonable. My read of this thread is that folks are looking for confirmation that the top few problem reports are being actively worked on and, better yet, fixed.

 

It seems that the masses are asking for better closure and disclosure of the most frequently reported problems. It may be uncool for a moderator (of a different forum) to say, but I think they're right. A one paragraph announcement/post of what's perceived to be a common problem on these forums but evidently not near the top of the run queue would go a long way to placating the masses.

 

[1] Yes, I know that to some it may be perceived as magic, but it's science. You perform process X and you get result Y. These are computers - no matter how hard you try, you actually can't get them to do something random even if you want them to.

[+Wilhelm Reich]

As a matter of fact, I've never experienced a problem with the Google Web site. So, I'm assuming that they check and recheck through Alpha and Beta stages (with trained Alpha and Beta Testers on Alpha and Beta isolated systems) before putting the code on their primary site for their users to use.

You're likewise assuming that Groundspeak is not doing any testing prior to public release. Is that a safe assumption?

No, I assume that they have been testing, certainly. I'm just pointing out that it appears to me that GC is not doing as thorough a job of testing prior to public release as Google does, which is (as I explained elsewhere in that post) to be expected considering the vast differences in financial resources. So I felt the original poster's comparison between Google and GC.com was unproductive in moving the debate forward.

 

So, I made a suggestion of a possible process that might improve the situation in which the current (or previous) level of GC service does not have to suffer too much while improvements are made in the coding for the GC site. Did you see that part of my post?

 

I'm sincerely looking ahead to your further contributions and suggestions as you seem to me to be intelligent and have demonstrated a willingness to contribute to the debate about how to help members (as an interim measure) return to the level of service they received prior to the recent changes while allowing the improvements to be tested more thoroughly before full implementation. Let me indicate that I would expect there would still be bugs in the software even after a thorough testing. But I would also expect that almost everyone would like to continue with the current or previous higher level of service without that level of service being impaired during the debugging on any improvements. My suggestion was the second purpose to my posting.

 

In regards to people complaining about complainers. I don't think any "complainer" is truly suggesting that no improvements ever be made to GC.com. We would just like the process of making improvements to be as unobtrusive as practical. And I'm sure that what is "practical" in this situation is debatable, and I was trying to add my part to that debate. Similarly, what is considered an "improvement" would also be subject to debate. Many times compromises can be found that satisfy all the parties; sometimes such solutions aren't available. Listening to different opinions is part of the process of finding compromises and otherwise making better decisions. Also, people usually learn to live with the eventual decision, and sometimes complaining is part of the process of learning to live with a decision one is not fond of.

 

Trying to keep it positive around here,

 

--WR

[+Wilhelm Reich]

They must have rewritten that pinned topic since you last read it.

Actually, the post has never been edited. ...[T]he forums automatically add an "edited" line to the post if it is edited. Raine's post has never been edited since it was posted.

 

Sorry, I was just trying not to offend the original poster and to give him the benefit of the doubt about whether his recollection was accurate so I could politely and inoffensively explain that what he described as policy was not currently the GC policy as per the pinned posting, contrary to what he had said. I felt this correction would be helpful for people who were experiencing Web site problems they wanted to report and needed to know how to do so (and who, like myself, found the location of the information explaining how to make such a report was in a somewhat obscure--to newcomers--location on a sub-forum of a different Web site and not to be found on the geocaching.com Web site itself).

 

Thank you for supplying information I wasn't aware of. I'm sure there is all sorts of history here that I am unaware of as well as operational mechanics I am also not aware of.

 

I'm generally not interested in posting in forums at all--maybe once or twice over the last 1 yr 9 mos. that I've been a premium member. I would prefer just to go geocaching instead. However, the map problem has prohibited me from employing the methods I normally use to prepare for geocache hunting. Consequently, I haven't gone geocaching for the last five days and instead have chosen to try to figure out, first, where the problems lie (at my end or at the Web site) and, second, to try and find a solution for the problem. My primary goal is to find a way to continue to use the very efficient methods I have developed to prepare for a geocaching outing, and my secondary goal is to contribute to a possible future solution for the systemic process of GC code testing and development in order to hopefully avoid such inconveniences in the future.

 

Since the official GC method for users to report Web site problems is through posting in the forums, I have posted my problem and supplied the relevant information requested by Raine in his pinned post. While I have been waiting around for at least an acknowledgement somewhere that this is a known issue and is (or will be) looked at, I have continued to search (and post when I had something to contribute) on the forums for help. I have found that there have been a few people who have experienced my same problem: that the new maps do not display in their space whatsoever. Unfortunately, none of my fellows have found a solution and none of them have received acknowledgment from GC that our problem is considered a problem by GC. So far, I have experienced no resolution to my quests.

 

I believe that a well-publicized page at GC.com that simply listed known issues individually (including those reported by users) and with each item in the list containing a link to the "official" thread in the forums where discussion of that particular issue could take place and be monitored would have been very helpful to me. I would have been able to easily contact others having the same problem as myself by linking to that one "official" thread, and we could have compared notes and tried to tease out a commonality--and potential solutions--with no other help from GC.com than providing the list of issues and the link to the "official" thread for discussing it. Being a forums novice, the official GC directive to search the forums and/or start a new topic was not very helpful to me. As it currently works, now fourteen hours into searching the forums regarding my issue, I still am not much further along than when I started and without much hope for a resolution in the future.

 

Furthermore, not only have I not received any helpful replies to my posts, but ALL the replys I have received so far (over a very short sampling period, granted) have all been moderate rebuffs. I am starting to suspect that because of these recent problems with the new google maps, people here seem to have become frustrated, aggressive/defensive and angry. Consequently, the associated threads have become...how shall I say this?...unwelcoming.

 

I am glad that so far this demeanor has not spread throughout the forums or to the GC Web site proper.

 

So, dear moderators, keep up your good work in what I think now has become a tough job. I thank you for continuing to do it in what has apparently become a hostile environment. And, if at all possible, if you could forward my suggestion above to whomever at GC.com might seriously consider it, I would appreciate it. I really think it is a good suggestion that should be considered and implemented if it resonates with others.

 

Trying to keep it positive around here,

 

--WR

[Rhialto]

For the last 2 days, it was terribly slow here. Since there is not a pinned message with what was going on and I also tried looking for a thread letting us know WHY but haven't found one so may I ask what was going on?

 

I had to go out and verify one of my cache was still there and it took 5 minutes just to log that it was still there, what a pain and I'm sure many like me at that moment where asking themself what the problem was.

 

EDIT: ok I found this thread.

Edited October 22, 2007 by Rhialto

[Rhialto]

It seems that the masses are asking for better closure and disclosure of the most frequently reported problems. It may be uncool for a moderator (of a different forum) to say, but I think they're right.

Yes that what I was looking for when I started that thread. But I think we never heard of the top admin thoughts on this...

 

I suggest one of us do it's best to keep everyone informed. Maybe someone close to an admin here? A pinned post that will look like this maybe:

 

Reported problems & status:

 

Google Maps:

a bad char in cache name break the code.

STATUS:

we are still looking at this issue

 

Print to PDF:

when looking at the cache, the Print PDF button and (5 logs, 10 logs) does nothing.

STATUS:

fixed as of October 12th.

 

Google Maps:

if you zoom out so 500 caches are shown, no more update are done after that.

STATUS:

we are aware of this but we focus on higher priority 1st

 

Google Maps:

15 miles limit issue/disliking.

STATUS:

fixed as of October 15th.

 

Send to GPSr:

blue flag icon instead of chest icon are sent.

STATUS:

we are still looking at this issue, we may have a fix before the next weekend

Or something similar...

Edited October 22, 2007 by Rhialto

[+LeGodFather]

Reported problems & status:

 

Google Maps:

a bad char in cache name break the code.

STATUS:

we are still looking at this issue

 

Print to PDF:

when looking at the cache, the Print PDF button and (5 logs, 10 logs) does nothing.

STATUS:

fixed as of October 12th.

 

Google Maps:

if you zoom out so 500 caches are shown, no more update are done after that.

STATUS:

we are aware of this but we focus on higher priority 1st

 

Google Maps:

15 miles limit issue/disliking.

STATUS:

fixed as of October 15th.

 

Send to GPSr:

blue flag icon instead of chest icon are sent.

STATUS:

we are still looking at this issue, we may have a fix before the next weekend

 

Pocket Query:

First date non-inclusise.

STATUS:

fixed as of October 19th.

 

Pocket Query:

PQ date selection restricted to 2007

STATUS:

we are aware of this

 

Added 2 more.. Good job Rhialto!

[+GeoBlank]

Forums are really not designed for bug creation, tracking, and reporting.

 

It could make sense to use forums for discussion and create another way for people to submit bugs, feature requests, and issues where they can then go and see status.

 

It could also give Groundspeak a better way to manage requests.

 

I assume you have something in house to manage and triage items... (Of course assuming is never a good thing)

 

[Rhialto]

Forums are really not designed for bug creation, tracking, and reporting.

Not the best yes... but at least we are informing people of some situation.

 

Would fit better in a dedicated thread where everyone will consult and update just like GrosseFamille have done.

 

I'll start a dedicated thread and see if we get support.

[+Cache Heads]

LOL, I'm always amazed at how polite TPTB are when it comes to threads like this... you really think they care if you are informed on every little change they're working on? If I were them, I would release as little info as possible because I know that every little bit of info I did release would be met by 50 posts asking "why?", or "but, why not this way...?" or "that's a nice idea but I think this...." or "thanks for the update, but I really wish...."

 

How bout just sit back and enjoy the ride? Most people pay nothing to be here and those that do pay shell out a whopping $30/year-- not enough to be in on the decision making process, IMHO.

[Rhialto]

LOL, I'm always amazed at how polite TPTB are when it comes to threads like this... you really think they care if you are informed on every little change they're working on?

I see you don't understand what my point was.

 

With this minimal list, people will be able to look at a single thread if a particular problem affecting them is solved or if they arer still working on it.

[+Cache Heads]

And if their "problem" isn't on the list? How 'bout if a problem they considered less important got fixed first? Or if their problem is taking too long to be fixed?

 

My guess is that if there's a problem, TPTB are working on it. Asking "is it done yet? is it done yet? is it done yet?" doesn't help anything. And for them to create a list would just encourage that type of behavior.

Edited October 22, 2007 by Cache Heads