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Warm and Fuzzy Geocoin Feelings


Cornerstone4
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My topic is a bit snarky...but I would seriously like your opinions on this.

 

Please keep personal attacks out of here. While the reason I am bringing this up is the result of a specific situation that happened, I am not opening this to re-hash that issue. Rather, I want to discuss the backlash that I personally received due to my participation in that issue.

 

I started a thread about a coin that I saw on Ebay that was for sale. I had received the same coin as a gift, so I knew the meaning behind the gift, and also that the gifter did not want the coins sold.

 

I started a thread asking what the communities opinion was on the issue. Unfortunately, the ensuing bloodbath got out of hand. The thread here got locked down pretty quickly, but I took some heat in another venue.

 

I was accused of not being considerate of the sellers feelings, and indeed, that individual had been hurt by the discussion. (As a note, I shared several PM's with this individual and explained where I was coming from, and I left feeling like we had come to an understanding. I apologized for the attacks that took place, because I was not on a witch hunt, I was looking for opinions.)

 

So, if you are still with me, here is my question:

 

I was told I should be more sympathetic with any individual selling any coins because I don't know what they are going through.

 

My counter is this: If a coin was given as a gift, shouldn't we also be concerned with the feelings of the person that gifted the coin?

 

Don't both deserve equal consideration?

 

I have been told the answer is no in another thread...but I am curious what everyone else thinks...

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I think your point is well served Dave. I personally feel the gifter's feelings should also be considered before making an attempt to do anything that could be construed as "rude". I very much value the friends that I have made by trading and gifting coins away. I would hate to think that selling one of their coins would drive a stake between myself and them, but unfortunately that has happened to some folks.

 

But, that's me. It's not just a hunk of metal to me (for some coins anyway). I've always said the coins I will cherish the most are the personal coins of my geo-friends, gifted or traded to me by them. B)

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Now I haven't been around long enough to know all the situations that may arise but I just look at it this way.. if I give someone a birthday or Christmas gift - it now belongs to them and they can do what they like with it. I have no rights in the matter any longer. I think if you give something as a gift it is unfair to put any conditions on it.

 

Maybe I'm making it too simplistic but that is how I see it but that is my 2 cents.

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I know I said "No" in the other thread, but I want to qualify my opinion.

 

When I mean "No" I mean that given the seller's situation the giver's feelings should take a slight backseat.

 

If someone were to give someone a coin and the recipient goes right out and sells it to make a buck, then yes that is crummy and the giver's feelings trump the issue.

 

However, if the seller needs the money for whatever reason, they are more unlikely to sell more desirable or special coins unless they have to. It is then that one must consider that the seller needs the funds. In this case, the seller's feelings trump the givers.

 

All in all, it's just a piece of metal. You can have memories, friendships and all the good stuff kept where it counts...in the heart and mind. A coin is a piece of metal and not nearly as important as what you keep inside.

Edited by Arthur & Trillian
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As a topic for discussion, with no personal feelings to get in the way, I will give my opinion.

 

My response is this: If I give someone a coin, no matter what coin it is - It's the recipient's to do with what they wish. I would hate for a person to feel like they could not sell it if the need arises & if that person would like to gift the coin to someone else, it's traveling isn't it? B)

 

A gift is just that - it's a gift - with no strings attached.

 

Jim & Paula

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I know I said "No" in the other thread, but I want to qualify my opinion.

 

When I mean "No" I mean that given the seller's situation the giver's feelings should take a slight backseat.

 

 

I do see your point. I guess we all take our own experience and perspectives into a situation...and that shades our views. I was going from the perspective that if I gave a gift that I felt was special, and that person got rid of it, for whatever reason, my feelings would be hurt.

 

I understand that situations arise, I am just trying to point out that feelings run both ways...and that should be taken into consideration.

 

 

If someone were to give someone a coin and the recipient goes right out and sells it to make a buck, then yes that is crummy and the giver's feelings trump the issue.

 

Agree completely

 

All in all, it's just a piece of metal.

 

I realize that...and I of all people should be wary of holding onto the material things of this world...

 

But hey, I'm not perfect...I'm human! B)

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I think the best thing to do is live life the way you feel good about. If you feel that their feelings should be taken into consideration, then do so. There are a lot of differing opinions on values and how they're perceived in here. You're not going to change their mind and they're not going to change yours. Learn from it and associate and/or disassociate yourself with those groups.

 

I personally am more than tired of all they people preaching "care about other people" that then come out and spread such hatred it's mind boggling. I know who I am, my friends know the kind of person I am, the rest I could care less about, they're not worth it. Just the same, I know the type of person you are, and so do a lot of others, rest easy with that.

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A gift is just that - it's a gift - with no strings attached.

 

Jim & Paula

 

In general, I agree. However, many of us put a piece of ourselves into our designs...so the gifts become more personal...

 

In most situations, I think most, if not all, disagreements in this issue could be resolved with a little communication beforehand.

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For the most part a gift is a gift is a gift and if the recepient wants to toss it in the river or sell it up the river for that matter it's their perogative. Unfortunately the issue is also one that is akin to art. You may donate a rare and hard to find piece of art to a museum but that museum does not have the right to make reproductions or sell it to build a new wing without the owner's consent.

 

It's clear that when a coin is gifted with conditions then ownership is shared. If facing a hardship sell the car, the kid's bicycle or even the dinette set but a valuable coin that's given with conditions should be returned to the gifter if the possessor is likely not to be trusted to uphold the conditions that came with the gift. Those condtions are tantamount to a promise. Hardship does not dissolve one's obligation to one's word.... if it's to be worth a dadgum.

 

That's my nickel's worth.

Edited by Droo
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Whenever my personals get minted (oops there goes the surprise...) and I gift some of them away, I wouldn't like it if the reciever just turned around and ebayed it BUT if they get more joy out of it that way I'd say go for it. Now I know that some people don't feel this way, so I personally wouldn't sell/trade a gifted coin unless they say that they're ok with me doing so.

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If I gave a coin as a gift to someone, my feelings about them selling it would depend on why they were selling it. Hardships (medical/financial), by all means sell if it if you need to, if I'm really your friend, I'll do my best to be understanding because I could be in the same position some day, and when it comes down to it, coins are not that important when it comes to my friends. Sell it for other reasons and I would be disappointed. I would prefer the opportunity to have the option of getting the coin back by way of trading/buying/whatever and then they could sell the other coins. While there are no rules, I think there are some common courtesies that could/should be extended. In the end, I think each person has to do what they feel is right and move on from there.

 

2cents

 

~tsun

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It comes down to Integrity.

 

if you take a gift, be it a coin or whatever else with the condition that it not be sold and sell it, you have no integrity.

 

and for those who may want a definition..

 

Merriam-Webster Definition

 

1.firm adherence to a code of especially moral or artistic values

2.an unimpaired condition

 

 

encarta

 

1. possession of firm principles: the quality of possessing and steadfastly adhering to high moral principles or professional standards

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...I was told I should be more sympathetic with any individual selling any coins because I don't know what they are going through.

 

My counter is this: If a coin was given as a gift, shouldn't we also be concerned with the feelings of the person that gifted the coin?

 

Don't both deserve equal consideration?...

 

They don't deserve the same consideration because they are not the same things.

 

For one thing "what someone may be going through" yeah, bite me. IF someone is really going through a bad time faire enough. If someone is snarky and hiding behind "you do'nt know what it's like to be in my shoes" but says nothing about anything, they don't really deserve sympathy. If their wife is dying of cancer and they are bankrupt, heck yeah some sympathy is needed, human, and the right thing.

 

The coin, is just a gift. Yeah we want them to be appreciated, and if they are not, it's fair to discuss it, and not waste your time giving another one to the bum, but in the end if it's really a gift, it was a one way trip for the coin.

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This, for me, is a hard topic to find a straightforward answer to. I have given away a coin that I thought was a bit special, and the person I gave it to sent it to someone else (who loved it). That didn't bother me.

 

I have traded away coins that I know the other person is going to sell. That doesn't bother me.

 

BUT on the other hand, I dont have a personal coin. I think I would feel differently if I made my own coin which wasn't ever sold, only traded for. I might feel a bit hurt if someone begged me for one of my coins then sold it (for the sole reason of making a profit). That might bug me, or maybe I wouldn't care less. I dont know...yet B)

 

I have a BelKen coin which I would NEVER sell, because Ken asked me not to - specifically. If I ever felt the need to get rid of it (heaven forbid), I would ask him if he wanted it back, or if I could gift it to someone else who I knew would treasure it. When there are only 40 coins in 'the wild', I will do whatever it takes to keep that coin special.

 

I dont consider these types of personal geocoins to just be pieces of metal, but tokens of friendship. It means that I have struck up a friendship of sorts, and someone has been kind enough to gift me something that I hadn't bought - just like my GSA and Geocoin Bug. These will never be sold, because of their very nature.

 

There are other personal coins that I have bought that I consider mine, and will do whatever I please with them. But the gifted coins are special, for me.

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I dont consider these types of personal geocoins to just be pieces of metal, but tokens of friendship.

 

That's a very good way of verbalizing it.

 

True, but no physical object can truly represent it.

 

Sure it can, what's a wedding ring represent? It's a physical object with a whole lot of meaning.

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I dont consider these types of personal geocoins to just be pieces of metal, but tokens of friendship.

 

That's a very good way of verbalizing it.

 

True, but no physical object can truly represent it.

 

Sure it can, what's a wedding ring represent? It's a physical object with a whole lot of meaning.

 

I see your point, but it's a stretch to go from geocoin to wedding ring.

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If I "gift" something (anything) to someone, then they turn around and throw it away...or sell it. I'm not gonna have a very "Warm & Fuzzy Feeling" about them.

 

 

The points which have been brought up here are ALL valid, in their own context. I think that what C4 is trying to convey, is that there is a "moral" obligation to do do what the "giver" might appreciate. It is a matter of "respect"...not "rules".

 

 

What I've been seeing lately, is that there are some folks who just want to bail out of the coin collecting alltogether. And don't really see it as an insult to anyone when they decide to sell what they consider to be their own property...rightfully so.

 

 

But, as others have said, if you want to "bow out" and still maintain some level of "respect" and "integrity", you have to walk a thin line to accomplish that. Not really sure myself, just how that is accomplished without stepping on someone's toes along the way. You know, Ol' Abe said "You can't please all of the people, all of the time"...so true. There will always be someone who feels like they've been treated un-fairly.

 

 

I'm at a real cunundrum here, C4...I hear what you are saying, but I can't come up with a universal solution. You have always been a great trader and perveyer of fine GeoCoin goods with me. I've got no complaints about how you treat folks. You are the one of the perfect examples which others should emulate. B)

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This poor topic will probably come up as long as there are geocoins, and an ebay to sell them on...

 

As someone said earlier, we ca express our personal opinions, but we are probably not going to change anyone's mind...that being said, here's my two cents worth...

 

A gift is a gift...something you give to someone free and clear of all strings...who hasn't received the equivalent of Gradma's hand-knitted sweater in scratchy wool? You love it because she made it for you, but you never wear it 'cause it itches too much...sooner or later it goes to Goodwill...

 

A trade is not a gift...it's more like a barter..."equal" items are exchanged...sometimes codicils are attached..."please don't sell this coin"...by agreeing to the trade, you agree to the attachment...if you later sell it, you have violated the terms of the trade and will suffer the consequences of that action...bad karma...

 

Everyone has to live within their own moral code...common courtesy would dictate that, at the very least you contact the person with the "please don't sell guideline", explain your circumstances, and give them the opportunity to "buy" back the coin, either for cash or another coin...

 

My sister and I share a personal coin that has never been for sale.(except for donations to charity auctions)..all have been traded to other geocoin fans...so far I have only seen 3 available on ebay...did that hurt my feelings? Yeah, a little bit...since two of them were people I traded with...and they didn't sell them because they were in dire straits...nobody knows us, so we don't fetch the big bucks...lol...I got over it...they live with the karma of violating my trust...and go on my do not trade with list!

 

All this rambling is meant to say simply, show some respect for your fellow geocoin freaks...er...fans...if someone asks you not to sell their coin, give them the opportunity to "buy" it back from you before you hit the ebay listing...I think the people who feel strongly about their coins will answer their emails promptly when confronted with this situation...

 

I guess that was clear an mud and covered the ground...lol

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Although I have never done it, I think everyone here has the right to make a coin that is not sold. There are people there who've invested a substancial amount of money in their own personal geocoins, I truly respect that, because I know how much it costs. I know this is very important to some people. They made the investment to create a coin and did not re-coup any of that investment back.

 

I think about the Geocoin Fairy, the GeoCoin Secret Agent, The Geocoin EasterBunny, The GeoLeprecaun, Geocoin Bug, the Great GeoPumpkin, and others that I might not even know about. There are people behind those coins that spent money having them made, spend money mailing them out, just to make people feel good! They don't even take credit for what they've done! And then their are people receiving those gifts and making quite a bit of money off of them.

 

They are gifts, and no strings attached, but that is just sad!

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dead-horse-fast2.gif

 

Well, it is pretty insulting...

 

Its not insulting - its just that everyones feelings on this topic have been shared.. its been done, and overdone. The only thing left is to beat it into the ground.

 

No one will ever entirely agree on the topic of 'gifted coins'. I can't think of any other object that makes people have such strong feelings - and, even the coins just aren't worth it.

 

Its a shame that something so trivial makes adults act like high-schoolers... or worse.

Whatever happened to "Its a coin, not a kidney"??

 

If someone is getting out of coins - by all means - they should sell them and let someone else enjoy them. They have a right to recoup as much of their investment as possible.... Id never let someone selling a coin effect my relationship with them - nor would I treat them like any less of a human being.

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Its not insulting - its just that everyones feelings on this topic have been shared.. its been done, and overdone. The only thing left is to beat it into the ground.

 

 

I disagree. There are those of us on both sides of the issue that are firmly entrenched in our views. However, that does not mean that open discussion doesn't serve a purpose. It may even help some people change their stance by seeing another point of view.

 

Before you say it can't happen, I'll give you an example. For sometime now, I have been firmly entrenched in the view of "One GC number=One log." I have been firmly against multi-logging events, and have argued on numerous occasions for firmer rules in another forum here. Well, after getting involved in yet another thread about yet another dead-horse topic...I have actually changed my opinion on the issue. I have found that as time goes on, I no longer care about how many smilies I have, and focus more on just enjoying the activity. It took reading several posts by my friend Wavevector for me to come to that realization.

 

So, having a dialog helps...as long as it remains somewhat civil.

 

 

If someone is getting out of coins - by all means - they should sell them and let someone else enjoy them. They have a right to recoup as much of their investment as possible.... Id never let someone selling a coin effect my relationship with them - nor would I treat them like any less of a human being.

 

Again, this is your opinion, but please realize that everyone does not share that opinion. While I agree whole-heartedly that nobody should ever be treated less than a human being...that does not mean that we can't have disagreements, or gasp, even arguments about things. If I tell someone that what I think they do is wrong, and I don't approve...it doesn't mean that they should feel bad about that fact. It is just my opinion, and that does not constitute a personal attack.

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My sister and I share a personal coin that has never been for sale.(except for donations to charity auctions)..all have been traded to other geocoin fans...so far I have only seen 3 available on ebay...did that hurt my feelings? Yeah, a little bit...since two of them were people I traded with...and they didn't sell them because they were in dire straits...nobody knows us, so we don't fetch the big bucks...lol...I got over it...they live with the karma of violating my trust...and go on my do not trade with list!

 

Thank you for this post...you saved me from an embarrasment! I have a box of coins that I am planning to list on Ebay. I have many coins that I have received in multiple coin trades that I don't remember exactly where they came from. One of yours was in that pile! :laughing:

 

Until I saw your post, it didn't register where that coin came from...but now I remember. It was a gift at GCF in February! I would have been truly embarrassed to have gotten rid of a gift coin. Thanks for saving me that embarrassment!

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...A trade is not a gift...it's more like a barter..."equal" items are exchanged...sometimes codicils are attached..."please don't sell this coin"...by agreeing to the trade, you agree to the attachment......

 

Actually I agree. That's why I would never make a trade that came with strings. I can't keep track of them all and do them justice. Even if I could if I didn't write it in my will, my heirs would probably break the unwritten agreement and sell them at the resulting Estate Sale.

 

If I make a trade and later find out that the former owner had an unspoken wish...there are a couple of ways I may deal with it. A lot depends on the former owner. First I'm not going to honor a rule that didn't exist when the trade was made. With that in mind I may say as much and offer to revers the trade. Or if they are one of those people it's easier not to deal with, I may just stick to the real agreement and be perfectly happy.

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I'm at a real cunundrum here, C4...I hear what you are saying, but I can't come up with a universal solution. You have always been a great trader and perveyer of fine GeoCoin goods with me. I've got no complaints about how you treat folks. You are the one of the perfect examples which others should emulate. :laughing:

 

I know exactly what you mean Jaybee. Honestly, there is no possible solution that will make everyone happy. The whole point of this thread was just to have a discussion so folks can share their opinions on the matter...not come to a conclusive resoltuion.

 

Thank you for your kind words, and thanks to HB and Shop as well...however, I didn't start this to garner compliments! In fact...compliments in this thread are dangerous! If you put me on a pedastal, the fall will be farther, and it will hurt more when I eventually make a mistake and trade or sell a gifted coin. (See one of my posts above!) :laughing:

 

Anyway, maybe one thing we could do is start a list of coins that the original makers would "wish" were never sold. It still won't solve all the drama, but it would make me feel better. If I had a list to check before I listed a coin for sale, I could do it with a clear conscience. :laughing:

 

(For the record, I have sold at least some of every coin I made, so none of mine would be on this proverbial list.)

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If I make a trade and later find out that the former owner had an unspoken wish...there are a couple of ways I may deal with it. A lot depends on the former owner. First I'm not going to honor a rule that didn't exist when the trade was made. With that in mind I may say as much and offer to revers the trade. Or if they are one of those people it's easier not to deal with, I may just stick to the real agreement and be perfectly happy.

 

RK- This further supports a potential "Do not Sell" list. While there is no way to enforce such a list, and some will still sell them in any case, it would be nice to know if the original makers had any such wishes.

 

Like you stated, depending on the original owner, I would make my own decision on whether or not to honor their wishes. It would still be a personal choice.

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I was having coffee with a friend this morning (who is not a cacher or coin collector) and telling her about this "issue". It lead into a great conversation about the deeper meaning that is rooted for some of us. The Miss Manners version, that someone took the time and thought to get you this item and it is absolutely not ok to sell it off (this was something that had always been accepted in past generations).

 

We have become a throw away society where we hold little dear to us, gifts, marriage, friendships included. It's not about the coin per se, but what the coin represents, in this case, friendship. It doesn't matter whether it's a 50 cent friendship bracelet made of yarn, a 5 dollar coin or a 5 thousand dollar diamond, they mean something. Sure, if you're in need, you sell it, but generally if you are friends the person knows you're in need and it's a non issue.

 

I think this is more about how people value and perceive their relationships with one another in here way more than it being about coins. I think people are shocked and some are hurt to find out that the friendship they thought they had cultivated really meant nothing.

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I was having coffee with a friend this morning (who is not a cacher or coin collector) and telling her about this "issue". It lead into a great conversation about the deeper meaning that is rooted for some of us. The Miss Manners version, that someone took the time and thought to get you this item and it is absolutely not ok to sell it off (this was something that had always been accepted in past generations).

 

We have become a throw away society where we hold little dear to us, gifts, marriage, friendships included. It's not about the coin per se, but what the coin represents, in this case, friendship. It doesn't matter whether it's a 50 cent friendship bracelet made of yarn, a 5 dollar coin or a 5 thousand dollar diamond, they mean something. Sure, if you're in need, you sell it, but generally if you are friends the person knows you're in need and it's a non issue.

 

I think this is more about how people value and perceive their relationships with one another in here way more than it being about coins. I think people are shocked and some are hurt to find out that the friendship they thought they had cultivated really meant nothing.

 

Spare me the sentimentality and the wispy-eyed visions and yearning for days gone by.

 

Times change, and change is not altogether too bad.

 

I say...live by the motto in your own sig and everyone's lives will be all the better:

 

"It's a coin, not a kidney."

 

There's not a one of you that can honestly say you have kept EVERYTHING that has been given to you. Most have sold or passed off things they no longer want. Same thing with geocoins; you get tired of them, you sell them to recoup some money or give them away.

 

I know, I know..."What about the friendships!?!?" Well...if your friendship is so tenuous that a hunk of metal will alter it, then you might want to consider how good of friends you were with the person to begin with. Obviously you weren't all that good of a friend to them.

 

It's the same circular argument over and over...more equines have been bludgeoned over this topic and it's really silly. Some people just can't get past the fact that coin owners have every right to do as they please with their property.

Edited by Arthur & Trillian
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It's the same circular argument over and over...more equines have been bludgeoned over this topic and it's really silly.

 

Then don't read it...

 

I for one thought that there has been some interesting discussion...how can the topic be dead if there are still opinions being shared?

 

Thing is, they are pretty much the SAME opinions held by the SAME folks with the rare peppering of a new one.

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It's the same circular argument over and over...more equines have been bludgeoned over this topic and it's really silly.

 

Then don't read it...

 

I for one thought that there has been some interesting discussion...how can the topic be dead if there are still opinions being shared?

 

Thing is, they are pretty much the SAME opinions held by the SAME folks with the rare peppering of a new one.

 

Yes, but it's that rare dash of pepper that adds to the over-all flavor of the topic!

 

:laughing:

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When I came out with my personal coin, someone who has a trade only coin offered me a trade for mine. The only stipulation was that I don't sell his. I agreed to this. I wanted the coin. So is it okay now to sell the coin? He wouldn't have traded me if I said that I wouldn't agree to that. I didn't have to agree to it, I could have walked away from the trade.

 

Gifts, warm and fuzzies aside. If you get a gift and publically sell it, people will be less likely to gift you with future coins. There are consquences to your actions. But I have said before, and will say again: If I have a choice of taking care of my family or coins, my family will win. But I do have enough people I know that I can easily trade away trade only or gift coins to get coins that I could sell.

 

So can you sell gifts and trade only coins? Of course you can. They belong to you. Me, I'll keep mine and remember fondly the spirit in which they were given.

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It's the same circular argument over and over...more equines have been bludgeoned over this topic and it's really silly.

 

Then don't read it...

 

I for one thought that there has been some interesting discussion...how can the topic be dead if there are still opinions being shared?

 

Thing is, they are pretty much the SAME opinions held by the SAME folks with the rare peppering of a new one.

 

Yes, but it's that rare dash of pepper that adds to the over-all flavor of the topic!

 

:laughing:

 

So...is that rare dash of pepper like the new souls thrown in your imagined gladiatorial pit?

 

:laughing:

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It's the same circular argument over and over...more equines have been bludgeoned over this topic and it's really silly.

 

Then don't read it...

 

I for one thought that there has been some interesting discussion...how can the topic be dead if there are still opinions being shared?

 

Thing is, they are pretty much the SAME opinions held by the SAME folks with the rare peppering of a new one.

 

Talk about circular arguments, do you have a solid opinion on anything, or do you just argue for the sake of argument?

NEW OPINIONS ANYONE

 

Note the very first line of the above post :laughing:

Edited by prntr1
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