Is this reasonable for a cache?

October 9, 2007

I have a cache idea that would involve people needing to get from one island to another. There are three main options for travel:

1. Own a boat

2. Hire a boat

3. Catch the ferry

By hiding a cache on the other island, am I promoting a ferry service? Or is this reasonable considering people travel to caches (including on other islands) all the time?

Also should I put in the cache description, the easiest way to get there? Or should I leave people to figure this out for themselves?

Myself and no-one I know stand to gain financially from the cache, so I am placing the cache purely for the enjoyment of others. I am concerned however that people will dislike my idea, and I would like to know what others think.

Please let me know your opinions.

October 9, 2007

In my opinion, you aren't promoteing the ferry service anymore than other caches promote gas stations. As far as provideing a desription of the best way to get there you need to consider what is the impact to the area if people get to it from all different ways...for instance if your cache is surrounded by private property or protected areas (turtle hatchery grounds, historically sensative grounds) or if going some other way actually is a hazard then yes providing extra instructions would be helpful and responsible.

October 9, 2007

The area is a bush regeneration project and should be approached cautiously. I will at the very least put instructions for safe places to land a boat and coordinates for the wharf.

Do I put an actual note of the ferry service though? If so do I just mention there is one or provide details?

8.9k · October 9, 2007

Sounds good to go to me! You could point out the ferry and the cost if you want the cachers to know of a public service that'll get them to the caches. You'll want to use the proper attributes so others know what kind of cache this will be as well as give it the right D/T ratings!

8.9k · October 9, 2007

After reading where you plan to place this, I would stress the need to get permission from whoever owns the property. Use of sensitive areas is probably not a good idea, but could be done if proper precautions are used.

ETA: be sure to specify where you wish to place the containers! Be ready for questions from your reviewer.

Edited October 9, 2007 by Rockin Roddy

3.9k · October 9, 2007

I have a cache idea that would involve people needing to get from one island to another. There are three main options for travel:

1. Own a boat

2. Hire a boat

3. Catch the ferry

By hiding a cache on the other island, am I promoting a ferry service? Or is this reasonable considering people travel to caches (including on other islands) all the time?

Also should I put in the cache description, the easiest way to get there? Or should I leave people to figure this out for themselves?

Myself and no-one I know stand to gain financially from the cache, so I am placing the cache purely for the enjoyment of others. I am concerned however that people will dislike my idea, and I would like to know what others think.

Please let me know your opinions.

As other posters have already pointed out, your cache hide idea is fine; there are many successful caches such as this. You may even wish to offer a link to a webpage showing the ferry schedule, as well as offering links to sites for resources which will rent/charter boats.

October 9, 2007

I have permision from the ranger to place the cache and sensitivities regarding the bush project have been considered and dealt with.

If I give info on two good places to hire boats and the ferry service details, am I promoting a service then?

Also, if you were reviewing what would you want to know?

October 9, 2007

Good work with getting the permission - no offense, but try to makes sure the "entire staff" knows that you have permission; it's pointless if the boss knows but no one else, and cachers get yelled at!

And, I would mention a few ways to get to the island, but not "direct" information of the specific ferry service. IMO, that would be on the side of advertisement, as it is my understanding that reviewers must be very tight on those restrictions, despite good intentions not pressing an agenda or "service." Of course, you can always ask your local reviewer if it's okay to simply mention that there are services available near-by.

Posting the GC#s of one or two of the closest caches to your new hide tends to help expedite cache-posting; any other pertinent information is also good: that you DO have permission, etc...

Edited October 9, 2007 by JeepinCalifornia

8.9k · October 9, 2007

That you had permission would be my first concern (if I were a reviewer). No, providing ferry service details isn't promoting their services!

As long as all the sensitive issues are good to go, you should be fine! Let us know how it works out!

ETA: if you have any concerns, you could contact your reviewer for clarification!

Edited October 9, 2007 by Rockin Roddy

October 9, 2007

Thankyou for replies. I will e-mail my local reviewer as soon as I am feeling confident I have the details under control.

I have never actually seen anyone promote a service before so I am not sure where the boundary on providing information lies.

This cache is going to be fun .... I just need to be sure that I am not offending people!

October 9, 2007

As an aside: I tried making a play-on-words with the title of a cache, suggesting a "Cool-Aid" kind of thing, though it had nothing to do with the drink Kool-Aid or its respective Brand Name. The reviewer would not allow me to submit the cache with that title, as it was "indirectly advertising." Try it - the rules may be subject to interpretation by the reviewer...

Edited October 9, 2007 by JeepinCalifornia

October 9, 2007

I would not have thought "Cool-aid" was a big deal!

Are you guys sure this ferry service thing won't offend???

October 9, 2007

Try it. Ask the reviewer. The worst they can say is "no," in which case, you'll just need to adjust your information appropriately - they won't deny you the placement of the cache entirely.

October 9, 2007

Oh yes and spotted the "entire staff" message. Unfortunately it is a volunteer area so not everyone will be able to know. The two main people who work on a permament basis have already been involved in the design so as not too upset the local tree hugging hippies or deface anything historic. A copy of the final placements and descriptions will be given to the management and ground folk though so hopefully that won't be a problem.

Should I try the publishing the cache with the ferry description first or ask about it? I don't want to bug them too much and it is probably easier to understand what I am on about with a full cache description attached.

October 9, 2007

I'd try it and change it if they don't like it. The best way may be to generically explain (using no specific business names) that there are "optional/available pay services to cross the water at X-coordinates," all-the-while reemphasizing that these services are not required to find your cache.

EDIT: it's good that there will be a copy of the cache's information on record, as you can even explain that in your cache description. This way cachers can kindly explain to the volunteers that permission is granted, verifiable under "File-X" which will--hopefully--be on record in the office, or wherever...

Edited October 9, 2007 by JeepinCalifornia

24.7k · October 9, 2007

I have permision from the ranger to place the cache and sensitivities regarding the bush project have been considered and dealt with.

If I give info on two good places to hire boats and the ferry service details, am I promoting a service then?

Also, if you were reviewing what would you want to know?

You are not promoting a ferry service. The service is public infrastructure (even if it's a private ferry system) and there are other ways to get there. It's location on an island is not a problem.

As for boat rentals...that could be promoting but if you point out all of them in no particular order it's not. Or if you just mention you don't have to use the ferry and that there are boat rentals that's just an alternate not promoting any one thing.

You have done your homework. Now you are probably over thinking your cache. Submit it and work with your reviewer on any details.

24.7k · October 9, 2007

As an aside: I tried making a play-on-words with the title of a cache, suggesting a "Cool-Aid" kind of thing, though it had nothing to do with the drink Kool-Aid or its respective Brand Name. The reviewer would not allow me to submit the cache with that title, as it was "indirectly advertising." Try it - the rules may be subject to interpretation by the reviewer...

That's too much intrepretation on the part of the reviewer especially since it's a play on words. Cool Aid is a generic term for a lot of things anymore. Yes things are subject to intrepretation.

October 9, 2007

Check out this one for reference.

Also, option 4="swim"

7.3k · October 9, 2007

Make sure that if you do make the cache without talking to the reviewer first, that you at least make an informative reviewer note that explaines everything clearly, so that they know everything on the outset. It might even be a good idea to send them a link to this thread. The more info they have, the less questions they'll have and the less back and forth you'll have to have with them before your cache is published.

5.7k · October 9, 2007

I have a cache idea that would involve people needing to get from one island to another. There are three main options for travel:

1. Own a boat

2. Hire a boat

3. Catch the ferry

By hiding a cache on the other island, am I promoting a ferry service? Or is this reasonable considering people travel to caches (including on other islands) all the time?

Also should I put in the cache description, the easiest way to get there? Or should I leave people to figure this out for themselves?

Myself and no-one I know stand to gain financially from the cache, so I am placing the cache purely for the enjoyment of others. I am concerned however that people will dislike my idea, and I would like to know what others think.

Please let me know your opinions.

I think that you have mentioned a profit motive a suficient number of times that the reviewer will certainly be curious about that. What prompted this I do not know. :laughing:

Edited October 9, 2007 by Team Cotati

October 9, 2007

A cache that is in the desert 20 miles away from a road requires a 4x4, but that doesnt mean the cache is placed for people to rush out and buy 4x4s. I like your idea, go ahead with it. I dont think people will have a case against the ferry.

2.3k · October 9, 2007

You are promoting the ferry service if you mention it (I.E. advertise it) on your cache page.

You can have another cacher post a note stating that there is a ferry service, but after many finds who will read past logs?

But of course you will have to make the terrain a 5.0 Requiring Special Equipment, just don't mention that special equipment by name or the reviewer will balk.

2.3k · October 9, 2007

You 'are' promoting the ferry service if you 'mention' it (I.E. advertise it) on your cache page.

You can have another cacher post a note stating that there is a ferry service, but after many finds who will read past logs?

But of course you will have to make the terrain a 5.0 Requiring Special Equipment, just don't mention that special equipment by name or the reviewer will balk.

Difficulty 5's that require a kayak don't mention one particular kayak rental place...

October 9, 2007

Hi Snail Trailing

Looks like you are going for the first cache on Matiu. Good on ya!

Edited for stupid spelling error.

Edited October 9, 2007 by Skytracker

October 9, 2007

You 'are' promoting the ferry service if you 'mention' it (I.E. advertise it) on your cache page.

You can have another cacher post a note stating that there is a ferry service, but after many finds who will read past logs?

But of course you will have to make the terrain a 5.0 Requiring Special Equipment, just don't mention that special equipment by name or the reviewer will balk.

Difficulty 5's that require a kayak don't mention one particular kayak rental place...

I don't believe that this is true.

The ferry service, although run by a private operator, is part of our regional transport system and is subsidised by the local authority.

Publishing these details is no more promotion that publishing a local bus timetable. We are strongly encouraged to use public transport here and the ferry service is a part of that network.

2.2k · October 9, 2007

The other option is to just hide the cache and let people figure out how to get there. They can figure out on their own if they want to bring a boat, rent a boat, take the ferry, etc. Why worry about whether or not it's promotion when you can leave it off and let everyone decide for themselves?

:laughing:

October 9, 2007

By hiding a cache on the other island, am I promoting a ferry service? Or is this reasonable considering people travel to caches (including on other islands) all the time?

Also should I put in the cache description, the easiest way to get there? Or should I leave people to figure this out for themselves?

...

Please let me know your opinions.

We have caches out my way on Islands that have ferry service and others that have no service at all. In my opinion, you are obligated to advise people that the cache is not easily accessible from the main land (i.e. it is on an island) and that they will either need to approach by ferry (one being available) or by swimming or suitable flotation device (such as a boat, canoe, kayak, etc). Many out-of-area geocachers rely on descriptions to allow them to plan such things and certainly in our area, the reviewers do not restrict publishers from listing "ferry accessible" in the description.

When you say "easiest way to get there" are you referring again to the ferry or to the trail after the ferry ride? Where it is obvious that others may approach from other than a single access road or obvious trailhead, I would describe your intentions, especially if private property or landmarks/approachs to be considerate of are likely. Add a waypoint to the listing for parking or preferred trailhead to ensure those attempting your cache know your intentions and the route(s) that you may have pre-arranged with the property owners.

In closing, I think island caches are often outstanding excursions. If you have any questions regarding the wording you should use, draft it up and send it to a reviewer that works your area (you can find their reviewer profile as the first log of any cache listing from your area and can then email them through their profile). They'll tell you in a heartbeat what it will take to get your listing past their scrutiny and save heartache down the road before you go through the effort of physcially building and hiding the cache itself.

Happy Caching!

5.7k · October 9, 2007

You are promoting the ferry service if you mention it (I.E. advertise it) on your cache page.

You can have another cacher post a note stating that there is a ferry service, but after many finds who will read past logs?

But of course you will have to make the terrain a 5.0 Requiring Special Equipment, just don't mention that special equipment by name or the reviewer will balk.

And why would a reviewer "balk" at learning this information? :laughing:

8.9k · October 9, 2007

Yes, we have a friend who owns several caches on Mackinac Island. While not the ONLY way there, a ferry is the best. I see no problem at all to have the ferry listed as how to get there as long as you do not mention them by name!

October 9, 2007

This idea sounds very well thought out, and quite feasible. I see by your profile that you have one hide already. This usually means that your reviewer has at least heard of you. I found through making mistakes, and misinterpreting rules, that the reviewers become accustomed to your style. After time, if you are straightforward with them and correct any suggested discrepancies, that a reviewer can be your best friend.

Run with this one, and if your reviewer has a suggestion or change, just say thank you, and do it. You will end up with a cache hide you are proud of. Besides that, your next hide will be even easier to get approved.

Edited October 9, 2007 by Team Magic

October 10, 2007

Thankyou all for your replies.

I have a cache idea that would involve people needing to get from one island to another. There are three main options for travel:

1. Own a boat

2. Hire a boat

3. Catch the ferry

By hiding a cache on the other island, am I promoting a ferry service? Or is this reasonable considering people travel to caches (including on other islands) all the time?

Also should I put in the cache description, the easiest way to get there? Or should I leave people to figure this out for themselves?

Myself and no-one I know stand to gain financially from the cache, so I am placing the cache purely for the enjoyment of others. I am concerned however that people will dislike my idea, and I would like to know what others think.

Please let me know your opinions.

I think that you have mentioned a profit motive a suficient number of times that the reviewer will certainly be curious about that. What prompted this I do not know.

I was promted to ask this question by a friend that will most likely be placing the cache with me.

You 'are' promoting the ferry service if you 'mention' it (I.E. advertise it) on your cache page.

You can have another cacher post a note stating that there is a ferry service, but after many finds who will read past logs?

But of course you will have to make the terrain a 5.0 Requiring Special Equipment, just don't mention that special equipment by name or the reviewer will balk.

Difficulty 5's that require a kayak don't mention one particular kayak rental place...

This person has mentioned a specific kayak rental place as already mentioned above. Although I am aware that caches do not set precedents, there is clearly room for interpretation!

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...9f-19ac04dc1b0b

Hi Snail Trailing

Looks like you are going for the first cache on Matiu. Good on ya!

Edited for stupid spelling error.

Thankyou skytracker. And yes you are correct about the location I am aiming for - I think it is a beautiful spot and well worthy of a cache. By the way, I am a big fan of your Waimapihi cache. I live very close by and couldn't believe that someone had put a cache there as it is one of my favourite places. What I find harder to believe though is that there is none on Matui! Never mind, I will try to solve this problem - I am going for a multi or mystery I think - the area is begging for an interesting one.

October 10, 2007

By hiding a cache on the other island, am I promoting a ferry service? Or is this reasonable considering people travel to caches (including on other islands) all the time?

Also should I put in the cache description, the easiest way to get there? Or should I leave people to figure this out for themselves?

...

Please let me know your opinions.

... Many out-of-area geocachers rely on descriptions to allow them to plan such things and certainly in our area, the reviewers do not restrict publishers from listing "ferry accessible" in the description. ...

....When you say "easiest way to get there" are you referring again to the ferry or to the trail after the ferry ride?....

The main reason for wishing to tell people about the main ferry service plus other possibble ways to get there is for the reason you mentioned above. I think it would be rude to expect out-of-town cachers to go hunting and then find they can't get there as easily as they thought - I know this would annoy me!

Yes, I am refering to "the easiest way there" as the ferry. This is partly because it takes about 90% of the traffic to the island and partly because I can't imagine kayaking there very easily (even if it was a good day which is unlikely considering the local weather patterns). I used to be a sea scout in the area and I can tell you for free that most people would rather take their children on the ferry.

Tell you what, how about an additional question for all you keen rule debators:

Is it ok to provide a link to a service if I don't mention it is the easiest way there or the name in the actual description?

I have seen many links provided to both pay and none pay organisations and services but it is very unclear where the boundary is.

7.3k · October 10, 2007

I think it would be more the other way around...mention it briefly with no link. Say that you can use the ferry to get there, but don't get into details.

October 10, 2007

Some like the link, some don't - from above comments. Ambrosia says no link and yes to description.

This is what I had written up in my draft but my friend is not sure and the more I look at it, the less sure I am too.

'Getting there

The easiest way to get there is through the East by West ferry service that leaves from Queens’s wharf and Days Bay wharf. The only other ways to get there is to take your own boat or hire one. I would recommend leaving before lunch so as to get a reasonable amount of time on the island and for searching. The island is officially open to visitors between 8.30am and 5pm every day. It is important you go through the quarantine centre and that the ranger is aware you are there. This is for your own safety as well as to help keep the island pest free.'

On the other side of things:

The ferry service, although run by a private operator, is part of our regional transport system and is subsidised by the local authority.

Publishing these details is no more promotion that publishing a local bus timetable. We are strongly encouraged to use public transport here and the ferry service is a part of that network.

I like this point from Skytracker. Maybe I could remove the name and just leave a description of where it leaves from and the fact it is probably easiest way over, for those looking for an easy way there.

7.3k · October 10, 2007

"mention it briefly". :laughing:

7.3k · October 10, 2007

I like this point from Skytracker. Maybe I could remove the name and just leave a description of where it leaves from and the fact it is probably easiest way over, for those looking for an easy way there.

I would think so, just be brief and not mention the name. It's like taking a bus. They don't need to know the specifics really, they can figure it out. The thing is to let them know how to get on the land in a way and at a spot that is agreable to the land supervisors.

5.7k · October 10, 2007

The cache is on an island. You'll need a boat. There is also a ferry available. It costs $1.43, round trip.

Have fun. :mad:

October 10, 2007

Really, I wouldn't worry about it. Down here in SF, there are large numbers of caches on Angel Island, and you need a boat to get there, or a ferry (there are two services that I know of), and reviewers approve them with no problem.

There's no rule that access to a geocache has to be free. Many county parks charge for parking and there's no other really good way to access them. Same for State parks - Mt Diablo, near where I live, charges you $5 to drive through the gate. Should you not plant caches up there? Plenty of people have, and they are nice ones.

October 11, 2007

Hi Snail Trailing

I had a look at Metlink and it gives the ferry timetables. If you use this link http://www.metlink.org.nz/timetables.php?route=EBF

in the description it is sure to pass because the information comes from the GWRC/Metlink site and not from the ferry operator's.

October 11, 2007

Thanks for the link skytracker.

I had a look at Metlink and it gives the ferry timetables.

I would not have thought have looking there!

It looks like we will go ahead with: the public ferry in the description, other suggested activities, no names of services, wharfs to leave mainland from, coordinates of wharf on island, and possibly a timetable link for the public ferry.

Thanks everyone for your contributions, I will let you know how it goes.

October 11, 2007

It repeated my last message!

Edited October 11, 2007 by snail_trailing

Is this reasonable for a cache?

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Join the conversation