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Garmin is in BIG trouble!


jcc123
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Main asset is (i) autorouting data (with one-way streets, turn lanes, overpasses, entrance ramps, etc. this is not trivial), which often takes wheels on the ground to develop and (3) some 6 million + "points of interest" which requires constant updating, plus geocoding to plot. I would expect that there is a lot of effort involved all around.

 

Hmmmm, I don't know... Did NavTeq really have people on wheels developing this? I know the Free Canadian Map set has much (all?) of the above information in it. The only real hurdle to overcome is getting it in to the proper format... I'm thinking this is the real reason Garmin wasn't in a rush to spend billions of dollars on them.

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Nokia is a cell phone company and competes with them. The ultimate limitation in cellphone GPS map technology is that the mapping will be good where there is cell service available and won't work elsewhere (straight coordinate would of course). Its a lot like Google maps on a PDA, great where WiFi or cellular is available, totally unavailable elsewhere.

 

To add full GPS service, like a Garmin Etrex, means adding about $200 to a cell phone and increasing its size for the additional electronics. Since Nokia's core business is cell phones, to do that is not a competitive move at this point.

 

JD

 

They do have the N800 Web Pad. That's not far from one of the automotive navigators. I could see them entering THAT market easily enough. But that's a pretty crowded market. Still, might be worth it just to move a little hardware...I can't imagine the N800 sells all THAT well.

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Did NavTeq really have people on wheels developing this? I know the Free Canadian Map set has much (all?) of the above information in it. The only real hurdle to overcome is getting it in to the proper format... I'm thinking this is the real reason Garmin wasn't in a rush to spend billions of dollars on them.

 

From the New York Times article linked by yeoldcacher:

On any given day at Navteq, the nation's largest digital map company, as many as 550 field analysts in 131 offices around the world may be on the road charting street grids.
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Its not like NavTeq went out and collected all the data themselves.

 

From the NAVTEQ site: NAVTEQ geographic analysts travel millions of kilometers in vehicles equipped with exclusive data collection equipment. As they drive, they precisely position hundreds of details everything from speed zones to Points of Interest and more on our map.

Edited by Prime Suspect
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Could someone please explain to me the value that NavTeq has? They provide mapping data right? Isn't all this stuff available for Free (or at worst for some licensing cost) from various governments? Its not like NavTeq went out and collected all the data themselves.

 

I know for a fact you can get pretty much all of the data available on the NavTeq maps in Canada from the Canadian Government (with the right to redistribute it). I'm willing to bet you can get similar things in the states and overseas (maybe not free, but at least for a license).

 

If you want to get nearest gas station/shopping mall etc, just get a digital phone book (again, I'm sure the data is available...) and geocode the addresses based on the mapping data.

 

Why on earth would all of this take years to do?

 

The maps are free. How they are organized and information stored about what you are looking at, so you can route on them plus all the points of interest and other information contained in the maps that "Bring them alive" is what a company like NavTeq would have. That's where their value lies. Someone like Google could make thier own maps (those Google Vans driving around) and has the $ to do it fairly quickly...

 

A start up would have to take some time to get their ducks in a row and fund the work to get all that information set up.

Not all government maps are free. Notably, the UK government charges big bucks for the data which was collected with taxpayer money. Take a look at the OpenStreetMap project (http://www.openstreetmap.org). It's making good progress in comprehensive mapping of the world. I'm working on an export tool for creating auto-routing Garmin maps from the data.

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Looks like Garmin's management heard my complaint!

 

"Garmin Ltd. (Nasdaq: GRMN) announced today that it notified thesupervisory and managing boards (collectively the "Boards") of TeleAtlas N.V. ("Tele Atlas" or "the Company") today of its intention tomake a public offer for all the outstanding shares of Tele Atlas N.V.on a fully diluted basis at an indicative offer price of euro 24.50in cash per share (the "Offer"), implying an equity value for theCompany of euro 2.3 billion. The intended Offer will be subject tocustomary conditions, such as receipt of the requisite antitrustapprovals and tender of at least 66.67% of the issued share capital. In addition to its cash balance in excess of US$1 billion, Garmin hassecured financing commitments sufficient for the intended Offer. Garmin plans to launch the offer before December 4, 2007 (thescheduled expiry date of TomTom's offer).

 

Garmin believes that a combination of Garmin and Tele Atlasprovides the best value for all stakeholders for the followingreasons:

 

Garmin's intended offer is a materially higher cash value for Tele Atlas' shareholders than the offer made by TomTom, 15% higher than the offer by TomTom and a 48% premium to the undisturbed Tele Atlas share price on July 20, 2007 -- A combined company will allow Tele Atlas' employees and customers to leverage Garmin's large worldwide user base and industry leading technology to further contribute to the creation of superior mapping coverage, quality and shared content for all of Tele Atlas' current and future customers -- Garmin's broad international footprint, global market share and strong balance sheet will promote the growth ambitions and prospects of Tele Atlas and its employees -- In addition to the benefits associated with the portable navigation market, a combined company will expand Garmin's ability to serve more customers in wireless, in-dash automotive, internet, and enterprise markets by offering a broad range of solutions including content, applications, and devices.

 

Commenting on the announcement, Garmin CEO Dr. Min Kao said:"Given the high growth and rapid change the navigation market hasundergone to date, we feel that now is the right time for Garmin tomove ahead with this proposed combination with Tele Atlas. Together,we believe that we can create the best available mapping solutionsfor our customers around the world. We also intend to make TeleAtlas' content available to the entire navigation market on anon-discriminatory basis, promoting healthy competition, withsignificant benefits to the navigation market and all its consumers."

 

It is Garmin's intention that Tele Atlas, following the completionof the strategic combination with Garmin, will continue its businessas a separate entity, based and headquartered in the Netherlands.Garmin wishes to retain the existing management team and all of theTele Atlas employees and would welcome them into its global family ofnearly 8,000 employees. It also strongly believes that the increasedscale of operations of the proposed combination will offer excitingand enhanced career opportunities to Tele Atlas' employees and willcreate additional jobs in the Netherlands."

 

Good job Garmin!!!

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October 31, 2007

Garmin Offers $3.3 Billion for Tele Atlas

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 12:57 p.m. ET

 

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) -- Garmin Ltd., the world's largest maker of personal navigation devices, unveiled an unsolicited $3.3 billion takeover bid for Dutch digital mapmaker Tele Atlas NV on Wednesday, topping an offer by rival TomTom NV by 15 percent.

 

Tele Atlas, which had endorsed the TomTom bid, said it was now reviewing its options.

 

TomTom shares plunged 20 percent to 54.20 euros ($78.11) at the prospect of losing Tele Atlas or having to raise its bid, while Tele Atlas shares rose 14 percent to 27.30 euros ($39.34). That suggested some investors are speculating the bidding will go even higher.

 

TomTom, which is based in Amsterdam, is Europe's largest maker of navigation devices, but the Cayman Islands-based Garmin is larger in the United States and globally.

 

''Given the high growth and rapid change the navigation market has undergone to date, we feel that now is the right time for Garmin to move ahead with this proposed combination with Tele Atlas,'' Garmin Chief Executive Min Kao.

 

He cited a reason similar to those of TomTom in wanting to buy Tele Atlas: owning the mapmaker will allow tighter integration of digital maps with the products that display them.

 

He said that Garmin's larger size meant its offer would allow Tele Atlas more opportunity for growth than the TomTom bid. It should also benefit Garmin's shareholders in the long term, he added.

 

TomTom spokesman Taco Titulaer said the company was studying the 24.50 euros ($35.31) per share Garmin bid and would reply in some form ''in the near future.''

 

TomTom began a rush to consolidate the high-growth digital mapping industry when it said it would buy Tele Atlas for 21.25 euros ($30.63) per share in July.

 

On Oct. 1, mobile phone maker Nokia Corp. announced an $8.1 billion bid for the only other global digital mapmaker, Navteq Corp.

 

Both Nokia and TomTom have given assurances that they would continue to sell maps to all comers after a takeover.

 

Garmin relies primarily on Navteq maps, and would probably prefer a merger with it, but Nokia's takeover of Navteq is seen as a certainty.

 

Separately, Garmin announced third-quarter earnings of $193.5 million, up from $123 million a year ago. Sales rose 79 percent to $505.6 million.

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for that companies pride and joy I believe it's really Verizon Wireless vs Microsoft............I truly believe MS wants to buyout garmin, im not sure why but dadgum it looks like a great opportunity for Microsoft to finally show apple up with an external positive source of income

 

who knows maybe im wrong

They'd just blow it by getting it wrong, just like they got it wrong with Zune (heavy-handed DRM, wireless transfers to another Zune that die after 72 hours, tied to the Zune software for downloads, can't play tracks bought from MSM Music, etc., etc., etc.).

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Eggs in one basket

 

I don`t know about anyone else but having an "all in one device " doesn`t really fill me with confidence

 

GPS 18+ hours battery life

 

Mobile(cell phone) battery life hmmmmmmmmmmmm 4 hours (on average)(on a good day)

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

 

I LIKE having a separate handheld GPS personally :)

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The real value of companies like NavTeq and TeleAtlas does not lie in the maps themselves. (This information, as pointed out, readily available from municipal, state and federal government sources.) The real value is in all of the other GIS data that NavTeq et al. apply to their map databases (For instance, is the street one way or two way? What are the street addresses? Where are the gas stations? Where are the streets that appear to go through but don't really? and so on.) This is where GIS companies find differentiation and this is the information that is toughest to compile. And it's a big step for any newcomer to the market to take.

 

 

You make a good point, however inexpensive (free) mapping data is readily available if you live in the United States. I've built a bunch of my own maps using a web site that describes how to take elevation data, combine with publically available road, hydro, and other GIS data to produce a nice basemap for my Garmin. For some U.S. state there is a lot of good detailed GIS data, for some states, not so good. I've tried to create some base maps for my business travel to Europe and it's next to impossible to find surface street level data unless you pay through the nose for it.

 

The maps I create a just base maps, though vastly superior to the base map that comes with my Garmin 60Cx. It doesn't have any waypoints at all and even for the few maps that I have created it's very time consuming and has convinced me that is really is worth paying for nationwide topo or city navigation maps from Garmin.

 

I'd love it if I could just take a map as an image and plop it down as my base map on my Garmin, but their GPSr units use a proprietary format.

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i have heard that garmin accounts for almost 20% of navteq business. will navteq/nokia blow off garmin? no - don't think the shareholders would be impressed...

 

then garmin purchases tele atlas.

 

maybe tele atlas will enhance some existing content that navteq/nokia might want in future?

 

maybe they'll trade with each other and guarantee availability of maps for both companies' future products...

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TeleAtlas has no Northern America database. So no maps for US and Canada. Goes back to the same issue, Garmin never really had good North America maps, and this latest move does nothing to improve that. I still have my eyeball on Nokia. Nokia will chart the course of the future.

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Garmin used TeleAtlas about 6 years ago before they switched to NavTeq. I believe that TeleAtlas can be as good if not better than NavTeq. With the billions Garmin saves by buying the cheaper TeleAtlas, Garmin can invest some of the savings into improving the map data.

 

Conversly, Nokia will be broke after their purchase of NavTeq and will not likely have the capacity for further invesment in the business.

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TeleAtlas has no Northern America database. So no maps for US and Canada. Goes back to the same issue, Garmin never really had good North America maps, and this latest move does nothing to improve that. I still have my eyeball on Nokia. Nokia will chart the course of the future.

 

I don't believe you're correct. I used U.S. maps from TeleAtlas on my Vista in 2000/2001.

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Garmin used TeleAtlas about 6 years ago before they switched to NavTeq. I believe that TeleAtlas can be as good if not better than NavTeq. With the billions Garmin saves by buying the cheaper TeleAtlas, Garmin can invest some of the savings into improving the map data.

 

Conversly, Nokia will be broke after their purchase of NavTeq and will not likely have the capacity for further invesment in the business.

 

The only reason for Garmin to buy anyone is because it's cheaper than making their own maps, or cheaper than contiuing to buy map services.

 

If the cost of TeleAtlas + Gap filling is Less than the Cost of NavTeq or making their own they did a good thing. IF this strategy is going to pay off by profitable sales. I happen to want satalite photo's on my next GPS. Neither Garmin nor Nokia's buy out offers solve this problem.

 

This all isn't over and it's going to be interesting to see what comes from all players.

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for that companies pride and joy I believe it's really Verizon Wireless vs Microsoft............I truly believe MS wants to buyout garmin, im not sure why but dadgum it looks like a great opportunity for Microsoft to finally show apple up with an external positive source of income

 

who knows maybe im wrong

 

MS got it's start making operating systems. Mine doesn't work right. I'm not talking a bug that's annoying but can be worked around but flat out does not do the job that I paid for my Vista upgrade to do. Meaning it's broken. I sold my PDA because I could not get it to sync with Vista after many trouble free years under XP. That too became broken.

 

I trust MS to break whatever they touch at this point. MS buying Garmin would soon have me re-booting my GPS and it's ability to sync waypoints and maps would so become probem ridden. Actually I haven't even tried to get my Garmin loaded under Vista while it's still Garmin. I don't trust Vista to do that either and I'm trying to solve one problem at a time.

 

MS should hunker down and figure out how to do what they already do well.

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The only reason for Garmin to buy anyone is because it's cheaper than making their own maps, or cheaper than contiuing to buy map services.

 

 

That's certainly one reason but more importantly, it's a strategic issue for Garmin. They cannot be locked out of map data since GPSs are useless without it. It takes time for you to drive around all the roads in the world to gather the POI. If TeleAtlas and Navteq decides to squeeze Garmin, it would take years for Garmin to develope their maps. By then, the company would likely be dead. So it's a matter of survival for Garmin to have direct access to map data.

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I happen to want satalite photo's on my next GPS. Neither Garmin nor Nokia's buy out offers solve this problem.

 

Do you mean like this unit: DeLorme Earthmate GPS PN-20

http://gpstracklog.typepad.com/gps_tracklo...me_earthma.html

 

Seen in action here:

http://www.delorme.com//images/sampleMaps/...OQQ/default.htm

 

The up an comers like Delorme do have some great ideas.

They suffer on the routing. I want it all. Routing, Topo, Arial, Property Boundaries, POI's.

Top and Arial can be implemented with "Free" maps from the web. Property boundaries can be done with some simple agreements with State and County GIS maps. POI's and Routing, that's where the mapping comanies come in.

 

it just seems like GPS makers get one set right but not the other.

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I've built a bunch of my own maps using a web site that describes how to take elevation data, combine with publically available road, hydro, and other GIS data to produce a nice basemap for my Garmin.

 

Can you point me to the site that describes how? I'd like to try it...

 

Some of the programs have been updated with a newer version and I haven't updated it in the instructions, but here is the site.

http://cypherman1.googlepages.com/Creating...hMapSetTool.pdf

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I've built a bunch of my own maps using a web site that describes how to take elevation data, combine with publically available road, hydro, and other GIS data to produce a nice basemap for my Garmin.

 

Can you point me to the site that describes how? I'd like to try it...

This topic has been posted extensively on this site. When you find it, you will have all the information you need. :D

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bleh bleh bleh............there is a huuuuuuuuuuge difference in a PC to a solid state hardware such as a GPS unit, one has thousands of variable components a user could possibly add/subtract from it, the other is a set stage of components which needs only firmware updates every now and again.

 

If microsoft truly just made crap as you suggest, then the xbox would never have sold a darn unit, and nobody would ever put up with windows in their computers or anyother devices, but we do because its not as much a headache as so many willingly perceive.......I see this week that OSX is starting to get malware issues, so nobody is immune

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bleh bleh bleh............there is a huuuuuuuuuuge difference in a PC to a solid state hardware such as a GPS unit, one has thousands of variable components a user could possibly add/subtract from it, the other is a set stage of components which needs only firmware updates every now and again.

 

If microsoft truly just made crap as you suggest, then the xbox would never have sold a darn unit, and nobody would ever put up with windows in their computers or anyother devices, but we do because its not as much a headache as so many willingly perceive.......I see this week that OSX is starting to get malware issues, so nobody is immune

 

How's the Zune doing? :D

 

The problem with MS is they approach everything with the question "How can we make more money with this?" This is apparent in several areas including the multiple versions of Windows and the requirement to buy "Zune points" in bunches instead of letting you purchase a single track.

 

It's not so much that everything MS makes is crap (I like Excel), it's just that they rarely have me, the consumer, or a superior user experience in mind when they're developing something.

 

-murray

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First of all, Microsoft's operating sytems are installed on millions of computers which in a lot of cases are configured in ways that they have no idea how the end user sets their machines up. I started tinkering with computers before Microsoft even existed. Then I saw the OS's evolve from MS-DOS, Windows 3.0, 3.1 Windows 95, 98XP, and not Vista. I wont touch Vista until I find a NEED for it. I run XP and it works flawlessly for me.

 

For MS to get blamed for building products that DONT have problems? Aint gonna happen. They are asked to build ONE product to work on thousands of different configurations and theres not any products so widely used that will work on every platform out there.

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Toyota is the biggest auto maker in america (possibly the world), and their cars are rated the highest sigma rating out of any manufacturer in the world

 

Anyway.......I would consider myself an Avid computer user, I have been using windows for probably 10 years and never had a problem with any version of it other than the obvious compatability issues when ANYTHING is first released, I still run xp home until I upgrade my laptop to something a bit beefier to run Vista

 

anything you have takes routine maintenance and care....something fresh out of the production line takes software updates and hardware failures....no company is perfect so get over it and stop hating the richest man on paper

 

 

 

ANYWAY again, back to the TOPIC im sure garmin will get tele atlas, and hopefully do some quick catching up with the POI's in North America........I wonder if they will still be able to use navteq's INFO after 2007

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Then I saw the OS's evolve from MS-DOS, Windows 3.0, 3.1 Windows 95, 98XP, and not Vista. I wont touch Vista until I find a NEED for it. I run XP and it works flawlessly for me.

 

Have you seen the most evolved OS yet? :)

 

For MS to get blamed for building products that DONT have problems? Aint gonna happen. They are asked to build ONE product to work on thousands of different configurations and theres not any products so widely used that will work on every platform out there.

 

Well, technically, nobody "asked" MS to open that can of worms, they did it themselves (with IBM's blunders). Think about it, there aren't too many successful CE markets where one company writes the dominant OS and numerous other manufacturers make the hardware. MS has tried that model in other markets and it seems the computer market is more of an abortion rather than the model preferred by the consumers.

 

-murray

Edited by murs
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October 31, 2007

Garmin Offers $3.3 Billion for Tele Atlas

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 12:57 p.m. ET

....

TomTom spokesman Taco Titulaer said the company was studying the 24.50 euros ($35.31) per share Garmin bid and would reply in some form ''in the near future.''

....

 

And today TomTom did respond...

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/tomt...t=TQP_Mod_mktwN

LONDON (MarketWatch) -- The battle for the last independent maker of digital maps escalated Wednesday as TomTom NV raised its bid for Tele Atlas, trumping a rival offer from Garmin Ltd.

Amsterdam-based TomTom offered to pay $4.2 billion (2.9 billion euros), or 30 euros a share, for Tele Atlas . The sweetened offer represents an 81% premium to the latter's closing price on July 20, the day before it received its first bid.

 

And, predictably, Garmin shares dropped 11% :huh:

 

But Garmin may respond....

Tele Atlas said it will review the new bid and ``inform the market on further steps as soon as reasonably possible.'' Garmin is reviewing the offer and ``possible responses,'' spokesman Ted Gartner said over the phone. He declined to elaborate.

 

TeleAtlas shares up 18.96%

Edited by wsgaskins
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Good to see that Garmin won't overbid. I think that at this point they will develop their own maps. Since they just re-newed their contract for 6 more years with NavTeq, they have at least that much time to drive all the roads in the world. It will probably cost them much less than what they would have to pay for TeleAtlas. Still, I think it will cost them over $1billion to do this. Lets hope they do it properly.

 

They should also take a page out of TomTom's playbook and have users upload map data to their headquarters so that they can save money and speed up developement of their maps.

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garmin is known for its extremely innovative products, with very useful features......they want to remain known for this, if they bought tele atlas they would have the spend millions or even billions integrating the maps, and tele atlas didnt even have the North America down that well

 

I would much rather see a longterm gain in Garmin, which this move definitely created......and I want my updated 60 series GPS reallllly soon, and if they bought tele that would have probably been on schedule but a lesser product due to the billions invested in a hostile takeover

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