CITO events in parks that don't allow geocaching?

[+9Key]

Hello!

 

I was wondering what cachers think about having a CITO event in a park that does not allow geocaching.

 

I can think of two sides to the argument but I'm sure there are more angles ~

* Holding a CITO event to pick up trash in a park that does not allow caches shows that we're good, responsible people and that we are reaching out to the park in question. Extending the olive branch, so to speak.

 

* Stick to parks that allow geocaching - why waste time somewhere were not wanted? Continue to foster goodwill with park managers that are already on board with our hobby.

 

Personally, I'm partial to the latter argument, but what do you think and why?

[+Tipz]

To me...CITO is more about cleaning up an area that about geocaching. Yes, it is done by geocachers, but aren't you really out to give back to the community? It shouldn't matter that they don't allow geocaching. Also it is a great way to help build a bridge between geocachers and those officials who don't care for us. Just my 2 pennies....take as you will lol

[+MustangJoni]

I went to one last weekend at a park that did not allow caching, and I have to say I was disappointed when I found out about it. Towards the end of the event we were told that the reason that they didn't allow caching is because a couple of cachers complained about paying the park fee. And that we had brought the ban on ourselves. So, being a person who never complains about paying park fees, I was offended.

 

You always have a person complain about something. It happens. I'll bet they have more people who don't cache complain about other stuff, but you just can't pin them down like you can us.

 

So there was no effort to "build a bridge", we were just used for the labor, and are not welcome to play in that park.

 

I won't go to another CITO in a park that doesn't allow caching. There are so many parks that welcome us, that is where I'd rather spend my efforts. I think of a CITO as a thank you to the park for letting us play.

 

CITO stands for CACHE in - Trash out - At this park, they left out the "Cache in" part!

[+9Key]

 

CITO stands for CACHE in - Trash out - At this park, they left out the "Cache in" part!

Exactly! Is there's no caching, its not really a CITO, is it? Its just collecting trash with no geocaching tie-in.

[+Tipz]

ya...i see your point....especially with that story, it just sounds like the park people were being <foul language removed by moderator>. I have yet to encounter a "no caching zone" yet....so perhaps when i do, i'll feel differently.

Edited April 22, 2008 by Eartha

[+Belleterre]

I attended my first ever CITO last weekend in Mt. Rainier National Park (no caches allowed). It caused some missgivings because we wouldn't be placing a cache, but I just looked up CITO in the guidelines and here's what it says in part:

 

:: The CITO event cache category was added to differentiate cleanup events from other types of event caches. Use this category when you are asking geocachers to show up on a particular day to pick up litter at a park, remove piles of junk near a popular waterfront, etc. ::

 

In spite of the name, none of the guideline says a cache needs to be placed, so I'm okay with it now.

 

The camaraderie, meeting new people and helping out the park made it as good as any other event and there was still plenty of talk about caching and finding of caches afterwards, not to mention some really good food, to make it a *real* event.

[+MustangJoni]

I attended my first ever CITO last weekend in Mt. Rainier National Park (no caches allowed). It caused some missgivings because we wouldn't be placing a cache, but I just looked up CITO in the guidelines and here's what it says in part:

 

:: The CITO event cache category was added to differentiate cleanup events from other types of event caches. Use this category when you are asking geocachers to show up on a particular day to pick up litter at a park, remove piles of junk near a popular waterfront, etc. ::

 

In spite of the name, none of the guideline says a cache needs to be placed, so I'm okay with it now.

 

The camaraderie, meeting new people and helping out the park made it as good as any other event and there was still plenty of talk about caching and finding of caches afterwards, not to mention some really good food, to make it a *real* event.

 

You know, there may be no guideline stating that it has to be a cache friendly park to do a CITO, but I'm still not going to attend one in a park that does not allow caching.

 

Quite simply, events are always fun. But we have lots of parks in North Texas that can use a good clean up. The largest percentage of the allow caches, why in the world pick one of the few that doesn't?

[Team Misguided]

I hosted the event that Belleterre attended. HI!!

 

We had a great day and a nice turn out. I can't say that it didn't cross my mind the irony of us doing a CITO in a park that doesn't allow geocaching. There was no motive in setting up this event other than to help out one of our state's most beautiful parks recover from a windstorm that devastated the park.

 

CITO is about doing something good for our planet. There shouldn't be conditions placed upon when/where we do a CITO Event. Anytime geocachers get together and make a difference to a park it's a good thing. Maybe you won't get to place a cache in that park this year, but keep going back and I bet you will have caches in there some day soon.

[+MustangJoni]

I hosted the event that Belleterre attended. HI!!

 

We had a great day and a nice turn out. I can't say that it didn't cross my mind the irony of us doing a CITO in a park that doesn't allow geocaching. There was no motive in setting up this event other than to help out one of our state's most beautiful parks recover from a windstorm that devastated the park.

 

CITO is about doing something good for our planet. There shouldn't be conditions placed upon when/where we do a CITO Event. Anytime geocachers get together and make a difference to a park it's a good thing. Maybe you won't get to place a cache in that park this year, but keep going back and I bet you will have caches in there some day soon.

While I agree with you on some points, I want to thank the parks that let us hide caches. I mean really, how would it look to park managers that let us hide caches when we don't do a CITO in their park, but do one instead in a park we can't cache in.

 

If anyone wants to do CITOs in non-cache friendly parks, that is fine, but I'm going to start looking around for cache friendly parks and organize one. I believe in putting my money where my mouth is, and thank those parks that let us play.

[+The Leprechauns]

I set up Pennsylvania's first CITO event in April 2003. I was part of a group of organizers across the state who intentionally chose State Parks for our projects. That's because PA had just adopted one of the earliest statewide geocaching policies. We were uncertain how the relationship between parks and geocachers would work out.

 

The park I picked had zero caches -- in fact, the park removed one because the owner didn't respond to requests to move the cache away from a sensitive natural area (in a wildflower preserve near a beaver dam). I worked with the park naturalist and had four caches hidden in time for the event.

 

The event was a big success, and the rangers went and told their buddies at other parks how great the geocachers are. Soon other parks were wondering how THEY could get geocaches and CITO events in THEIR parks.

 

I believe that this initial group of CITO events was instrumental in advancing good relations with our state park officials. That relationship has grown and continues to be very strong today.

 

So, pick a park and go for it.

[+drakebrimstone]

I also attended the Rainier Recovery event, and I went because I love the mountain. Due to the current standing in reguards to placing Cache's in National Parks events like this could show the park managers that we care about the parks and are willing to give back to the parks not just use them. Correct me if I'm wrong, but last I checked the official standing on the part of the National Parks Service is it's up to the individual Park managers.

 

Additionaly, there ARE caches in the park, several Virtuals and an Earthcache. Actualy, I'd like to point you to one particular cache I was told about during the event. The Cache ID is: GC3E29 I love the concept, and think it should fall into a new Catagory: CITO Cache. I could see many such caches being set up throught the various parks where there are overnight hiking trails with ranger stations not accessable by road.

 

Any way it goes, I always think it's a good thing to help out at the parks, reguardless of geocaching.

[+wavector]

CITO caches have been invaluable for introducing geocaching to government officials in this area. We planned a CITO right in a creek!

Our planned event caught the eye of some local officials and was escalated to every level of governement, municipal, provicial and even national, Fisheries Canada was involved because we were planning a cleanup in a waterway and they had to sign off.

We responded to all requests for further information and the CITO had to wind it's way through the system. Eventually permssion was granted by our cities Department of Operations - General Manager, this was after it had been signed off by Alberta Environment and Alberta Water Reources.

It was actually finally turned over to the cities Parks and Recreation Department and they had to arrange a liaison to come down and observe the whole process.

There was never any chance of a cache being placed there, there is still no chance of a cache being placed in this sensitive area but our CITO effectively introduced us to everyone and anyone. The area was cleaned up (much to the amazement of everyone except us) and today we have reaped the benefits of that first CITO many times over.

Our largest local park now rents GPS units so people can learn about geocaching, they even have placed private caches in the park. Our CITO events are quickly arranged by contacting Parks and Rec and they handle the upstream issues if there are any, we just bring along a city sign in sheet and turn it over after we are done. We take our collected trash to the local city owned landfill and they know who we are and they let us dump the stuff with no problems. We get invited to other cleanup efforts and have picked up many many tons of trash working with other groups on their initiatives, they show up at our CITO events even though they don't geocache!

 

So, even if there are policies against geocaching, CITO benefits will accrue and steps in one area can lead to great advances in other areas. Don't worry about the park policy, worry about making your CITO effective and the policy will one day, go your way.

[+Eartha]

What better way to change a park manager's mind than to show them what geocachers can do? Just read wavector's post! Great work!

 

I would attend a CITO event in any park. I would pick a park that needs it, one that doesn't already have a paid crew who should be keeping it clean. When you attend a CITO, yes it's nice to grab a cache or two, but the primary purpose of the CITO event is to volunteer some time to do something nice and give back to a community. You can always cache to and from the park.

[+MustangJoni]

I don't mind cleaning a park to change a park managers mind. In this case, the park manager has made up her mind. We were told that there is no changing it.

 

While we were CITOing this park, there are hundreds of parks that allow caching or might consider allowing caching that we didn't have a CITO event in. I'd rather stick with those, than the particular set of parks that this manager oversees.

 

This park is public land, you can fly a kite in it (I know because we picked one up), you can play frisbee (yea, picked one of those up too) you can walk your dog (plenty of droppings left by them), but our little hobby is not allowed?

 

Ya'll have fun, and no hard feelings, but I'm working on one for next year to thank a park for letting us play.

[+Renegade Knight]

Personally I think it's a fair tactic to encourage a park to allow caching. It's only good if you advertise far and wide though about the good works that geocaching does.

 

If you have two parks close enough, it may pay dividends to CITO the park that allows caching and advertise that so that the park that doesn't is aware they are losing out on free help.

 

In the end you have to target your the people who are in charge with what's going to work given their personality. That trumps opinions on general tactics because its' specific.

[+Wander Lost]

I attended my first ever CITO last weekend in Mt. Rainier National Park (no caches allowed). It caused some missgivings because we wouldn't be placing a cache, but I just looked up CITO in the guidelines and here's what it says in part:

 

:: The CITO event cache category was added to differentiate cleanup events from other types of event caches. Use this category when you are asking geocachers to show up on a particular day to pick up litter at a park, remove piles of junk near a popular waterfront, etc. ::

 

In spite of the name, none of the guideline says a cache needs to be placed, so I'm okay with it now.

 

The camaraderie, meeting new people and helping out the park made it as good as any other event and there was still plenty of talk about caching and finding of caches afterwards, not to mention some really good food, to make it a *real* event.

 

We even made the local paper. The story is online now.

[+mrjiffy]

I live across the street from a beautiful 91 acre natural habitat park that I use frequently when I walk my dog with my wife. I used to always pick up trash when others would leave it along the trail, even prior to my starting geocaching. This would quite often include broken bottles that kids would leave around after drinking in the park on a Saturday or Friday night. I figure if I can help keep the trail looking better and also avoid another animal of child/person from getting cut from the broken glass, then I dont mind picking the glass up(although I wish people would be more respectful of the park at times). Now that I have gotten in to geocaching, and have also placed a multcache there in this park, I have even more incentive to keep the place clean. If we all do our part, it can make a big difference. I also believe that showing personal responsibility to keeping parks cleans goes a long way to inspire others to do the same, or at the very least no contribute to the mess and litter that so often is found in public spaces. Being a responsible citizen as well as geocacher can only improve the status and acceptance of our hobby, not everyone may see the light unfortunately, but over time this will have the desired effect in my opinion.

Best Regards,

MRJIFFY (Jason)

Edited October 5, 2007 by mrjiffy

[+Lotho]

I had cache permission refused and i would certainly not consider citoing there again.

[+Touchstone]

...but I'm still not going to attend one in a park that does not allow caching.

 

The unfortunate consequence of this attitude is that we'll never get anywhere trying to convince Land Managers that Geocaching is something to embrace.

 

What better way to change a park manager's mind than to show them what geocachers can do?

 

This is generally the philosophy that I subscribe to, and why I, and others in our group, continue to Host a couple of CITO's a year in Yosemite National Park:

 

Yosemite VIP/CITO Weekend Campout

Yosemite Spring 2006 VIP CITO

Yosemite Fall CITO/VIP Backcountry Weekend

Nearly Summer Solstice Yosemite VIP CITO

Yosemite Midsummer VIP/CITO Event:Tuolumne Meadows

 

As a general rule, I don't base my decision on where to hold a CITO Event on what the Policy of the Land Manager/Park is, but rather on the drop-dead views Over time I think that many Parks will come to at least tolerate our sport and will eventually put out the welcome mat

[+tabulator32]

I have to advocate ALWAYS trying to reach out and become friendlier with society at large in hopes of spreading good will about geocaching.

 

Non-caching parks that don't get CITO'ed are probably not as clean. I'd like to see some posts of parks where CITO occurs on a regular basis because of cache placement versus parks where geocaching is not allowed and CITO doesn't occur.

 

I'll bet there is a noticeable difference.

 

Anyone have any examples?

[ljay]

i'm going to add my 2 pence from across the pond.

We don't have many CITO events here in the UK (not in my area anyway).

If there was one organised i would go to help out for the sake of meeting other cachers.

If i was trying to convince a park manager then how about setting a temp cache and showing them how much fun it could be while helping them out.

The other option is a trade off, we'll regularly organise a CITO and similar events if we can use your park.

 

I can understand Mustang's point of view, if you have a closed minded person who is not willing to work wih you and come to a compromise than why should we bother. As someone else said there are plenty of other parks that are welcoming you with open arms.

My first Cache was shot down in flames by a park manager who basically didn't want people in his park. It was a simple Traditional, it was just off the path next to a stile, the path was part of one of their published walkways but was one of the longest ones and only used by serious dog walkers. It is a beautiful park but to be honest most people visit the garden centre at the gates and the kid's play park and don't venture in to the grounds at all. A wasted park in my opinion but once i started to get to know the local cachers they have said the same thing.

Would i attend a CITO in this park, well there won't be one but it wouldn't stop me attending another event.

 

But as we are now covered in snow and have been under a cloud of Fog for the last week i've no intention of going anywhere...

 

Happy Christmas

[+Texsox]

I am very involved with several other groups that perform community service. I am reading this thread and thinking, if I only participated in events that welcomed all the various groups I am involved with, I would never participate.

 

If the work itself is worthwhile, I am there whether or not I will benefit, either directly, or indirectly.

 

Y'all are free to make your own decision. That's the beauty of America, even if it is occasionally obscured with trash.

[+gray754]

I recently went to my first CITO. It was located in a park that wasn't even open to the public much less had any caches in it. I actually felt privileged to be there. There were also several community service groups there as well, but the organizers were quite impressed with our dedication. Obviously we were there with no intention of placing a cache.

Afterwards, the geocachers got together and went caching together so we still got to get some smiles even though it was not part of the actual CITO.

While I can see both sides of the debate, I feel the intent of a CITO is to clean up and leave an area in better shape regardless of a "geocaching" gain.

[+ReedKyCacheFinders]

My Ten Cents from Kentucky

The post or forum caught my eye cause this coming Sunday(April 20th) will be my Wife & I first CITO Event since we got into Caching. First off,,We're Hooked lol

AS I sit here & read the First Post on this Subject & Read on to the others, I think, It was asked what you or I think about this subject. Not to keep commenting as others put in they're input on the matter??

I saw a few post more than once, Crying to why go pick up trash in a park where caches are not allowed??

Shame on you. I bet you are the same person that if you out with the family in a park (Not Caching at all) & you walking the nice trails & you happen to see a peice of trash, I bet you step over it?? Huh, I bet you do?? Even if you know the park allows caches, You step right over it cause it's not a Event??

I swear, I have never saw some self centered people to think that there has to be something for them , for them to give a little. Shame on YOU!!

If it's a Park in your area that needs cleaning or help keeping it clean. Set up a Outing for all your Local Cachers to go there & pick up trash or what not, Cook some Hot Dogs, & Share Storys.

It don't have to be a Event to do this, But be nice to let others know that might be traveling in your area at that Date.

What ever you do for our Earth, Be it walking down the street, Parking your auto in a store parking lot & walking to go inside the store or coming out & you see trash on the Lot or ground, Jesus, I hope your picking it up. Cause if you don't & or you steping over trash in a park that don't allow caches there, Well then , My Friend, Your in the wrong group of people.

Plus, it don't have to be April to plan one of these Events I'm sure?? Good Lord, Spring, Summer & Fall (even winter if you can handle the cold,,lol) is a long time to hold a many of Events in your area to clean a few parks, Cloverleafs, Road side areas,,etc,,etc. Let your local Newspaper, Local News know about these ahead of time & I'm sure alot of other places would be more that glad to let you put a cache or 2 on they're land & if they don't?? Then so be it, You did good for Old Mother Earth.

Now Stop your crying cause THEY WON'T LET US PUT CACHES THERE, SO I'M NOT CLEANING THERE

Geezzz, Get over it already.

Let's all do our part, Be it,

No Caches!!

NO Thank You!!

No Event!!

& What ever else you want to cry about & Let's all just

DO OUR PART IN THE WORLD!!

I just wonder how many of these people who won't go to a CITO if no caches is allowed there, Even pack in a trash bag & pick up in & out of a cache that they have to walk to & really pick up trash???

WE see you,,lol

Wendell

Part of the "ReedKyCacheFinders"

[+genegene]

I have thought about this same issue.

There is a park near where I am that the land manager wont even talk to Geocachers about Caches being placed. This guy is very rude to anyone that approaches him about it.

I have thought about doing a CITO event at one of the facility's he runs to show him that caching could help the area in the long run.

but is rudeness about even talking to us has made me totally not want to even talk to him and offer our services.

I think a lot of cachers in this area would not attend because of his rudeness.

 

If a park/land manager was willing to talk about geocaching then I would say go for it. If not I would personally move on to another park that would love to have you come in. (personal opinion)

 

As far as Mt. Raineir is concerned, I think earth caches might be allowed.

[+HVAC-EMT]

What I would reccomend is to hold the event, invite as many cachers as possible, place caches outside the boundaries of the park, and be sure to invite the press! Have the journalist take pictures of the clean up efforts and be sure that they mention in the article that despite not being allowed to enjoy the sport of geocaching in the park, you cleaned it up anyway. This may twist the arm of the decision makers that run the park. The town forest near my house used to be well maintained by ATV, dirtbike, and snowmobile users until someone complained about the "damage" done by them (particularly the spots that ended up with ruts in them). Now the trails are off limits to motorized vehicles and have become overgrown by weeds and blocked by fallen tree's. I have taken it upon myself to clear fallen trees and weeds that have choked off the trails, but it is a never ending battle. Even though I do not own an off road vehicle, I have tried to reverse the ruling to no avail. The town doesn't seem to have any interest in maintaining the trails.

[+wildchld97]

Hello!

 

I was wondering what cachers think about having a CITO event in a park that does not allow geocaching.

 

I can think of two sides to the argument but I'm sure there are more angles ~

* Holding a CITO event to pick up trash in a park that does not allow caches shows that we're good, responsible people and that we are reaching out to the park in question. Extending the olive branch, so to speak.

 

* Stick to parks that allow geocaching - why waste time somewhere were not wanted? Continue to foster goodwill with park managers that are already on board with our hobby.

 

Personally, I'm partial to the latter argument, but what do you think and why?

 

Personally, I won't CITO in parks that refuse to allow caches. It's just plain silly. They use the same old argument that caches are considered "litter". From what I have seen, some of these parks have a LOT more to worry about than a little container filled with Mctoys. As far as I'm concerned, let them clean up their own litter. There are a lot more parks that appreciate our efforts.

 

For those that feel otherwise and think that we are little whiny crybabies...

 

Case in point. Park allows boy scouts to camp on their land. Said boy scouts between the ages of 6 and 12 go off exploring and trample existing vegetation and native plant species because of youthful ignorance. That is acceptable and the park rangers look the other way...but placing an ammo can in a hollow log just off the trail is considered bad. I don't understand the logic. Either way, as long as geocaching is "unacceptable"...I am of the opinion that holding a geocaching sponsored CITO in that park is also unacceptable. Let the boy scouts pick the garbage up.

[+2cent'sworth]

if the park managers allow a Cito event, it is a cache in their park.you still get a smiley for the event.