Rain gear

[bogleman]

Well after far too many soggy adventures I have decided enough is enough, I am tired of the excuse it's raining out; I don't want to get wet.

 

I am looking for a parka style coat with a removable liner so I am not stuck being too hot or too cold. I have read a lot about Gortex and understand how it works but is it really worth it?

 

What are some of your experiences with rain gear? I've used the "trench coat" style - gets caught on everything and does not breathe. I've used the "El Cheapo" glorified garbage bag style - tore it to shreds in less than 10 minutes. Used an umbrella - sissy, nearly poked my eye out trying to go through the woods. I ended up destroying it out of frustration. I even resorted to the "Hefty" rain parka in a pinch. I've got wool - works great when it's cold & wet; but it does not keep me dry and weighs a ton.

 

All in all I enjoy getting wet when I take a shower, not in the field. Just because it's raining is no excuse to be stuck in the house or at the mall.

 

I want the coat to be useful

I want the coat to breathe but keep me dry

I want the coat to be durable - thorns, brush, mud

I want pockets, the more the better

[+tarbal]

I use Gortex. I have an old LL Bean flyfishing jacket I have had about 5 years. I was very skeptical about Gortex given the price. I bought mine on sale and was very pleased with its perfomance. It always keeps me dry. I have been fishing in down pours for most of the day and come home dry. If it is cold I will just wear a Polartec jacket underneath.

 

tarbaL

[+ergomaniac]

I'd not only like to hear what kind of rain gear you use but also the "weight" of your rain gear. I've had a really hard time finding good rain gear that doesn't weigh a ton.

 

For my fishing adventures I have always used Gortex jackets and pants (both unlined shells) and they have done the job extremely well. The problem is they are heavy!

 

For backpacking I have recently settled on a light weight, waterproof breatheable (non-gortex) jacket that is much lighter (mine's made by Columbia) and a light weight urethane-coated nylon pair of pants. The pants don't breathe at all but are vented and the jacket breathes a little but not like my gortex jacket.

 

The gortex jacket and pants weigh in at a total of 3 lb. 8 oz (jacket - 1 lb. 14 oz and pants 1 lb. 10 oz)

 

My lighter weight jacket and pants weigh in at a total of 1 lb. 9 oz (jacket - 1 lb. 3 oz and pants 6 oz)

 

I've stayed dry in the light weight gear in some real soakers but I suspect it will have to be replaced more frequently than the Gortex gear.

 

I'm thinking of trying a Sil poncho (9 oz) instead of all the rain gear. I'd be interested in hearing comments from anybody that has tried the sil ponchos.

[mtbikernate]

I've worked in outdoor retail long enough (thankfully, I don't anymore) that I know what is marketing hype and what is for real. Gore-tex is good stuff. It's not the best, but it works well. eVent is better, if you're willing to pay for it.

 

Jackets with zip-in liners are marketing hype. They actually don't work any better than a wp/b shell and a separate insulation layer. If anything, they're less effective, because the place where you zip the liner into the shell turns into a nice cold spot.

 

If you want flexibility, buy a simple waterproof/breathable shell of your choice and use either insulation you already have, or buy a separate insulating layer (you can buy as many different ones as you like for your intended conditions).

 

Also, and trust me on this, you do NOT want lots of pockets on a waterproof shell. Each pocket is a potential point of entry for water. A true rain jacket will not have many pockets. You will find some ski parkas with lots of pockets, but those are intended to be used in the snow, not rain. Those parkas are intended to shed melting snow, so you can put tons of pockets on them and it's no big deal. If you use such a parka in rainy conditions, those pockets will eventually leak.

 

Personally, my wp/b shell is a relatively budget-minded one. I've been wearing a Marmot Precip jacket since 2003. The wp/b liner started to delaminate from the ripstop shell a year or two ago, and Marmot sent me a brand spankin new jacket (with some details changed in hopes of eliminating the problem in the future) with no questions asked. It keeps me dry if I keep the jacket clean and I periodically (once or twice a year) revive the DWR coating on the shell. It feels fairly delicate, but I bushwhack in it regularly, and I've not torn either jacket. It's not the most breathable, though. It's only a small step up from non-breathable rain gear. As long as I'm not really heavily exerting myself, I have no problem. If I try running through the woods to bag a cache in a rain/snow mix 20 min before work, like I did last spring, then my own sweat will condense on the inner side of the jacket and soak me to the bone.

 

I spent about $100 on my jacket. If you spend more, you don't necessarily get more waterproofness, but you do get more breathability and about the same level of waterproofness.

[+Von-Horst]

It depends on what kind of activity you want it for;

 

If you're going to be walking mainly on trails then any breathable waterproof should do and the only limit is howmuch you can/want to pay (Columbia are good, as are Mountain Corp and I think both are avalable in the US).

 

If you are going 'off road' and will be ploughing through woods/trees/brambles/rocks or using a 'real' campfire then PTFE based waterprooofs aren't very durable (they puncture/tear/abrade too easily imo) and you have 2 choices. Either buy the cheapest manmade you can find and keep replacing every time or pay through the nose for a Ventile jacket (a naturally waterproof cotton that is VERY hard wearing and durable, but which does get heavier as it gets wet).

 

For more info see

http://www.snowsled.com/clothing/clothing_classicsmock.htm

or

http://www.west-winds.net/

 

Hope that helps!

 

Mike

[bogleman]

<snip>

Jackets with zip-in liners are marketing hype.

<snip>

If you want flexibility, buy a simple waterproof/breathable shell of your choice and use either insulation you already have, or buy a separate insulating layer (you can buy as many different ones as you like for your intended conditions).

<snip>

Also, and trust me on this, you do NOT want lots of pockets on a waterproof shell. Each pocket is a potential point of entry for water. A true rain jacket will not have many pockets.

very good points thank you

 

Thank's everyone for the posts

[+Renegade Knight]

Bah humbug on the no pockets. The thing is I'm not working a fishing boat in the rain with 30' waves. I'm caching, I'm going out and looking at projects, I'm grocery shopping. My coat has jobs to do and gear to carry.

 

I use a Columbia Titanium jacket. The first one I got had wonderful pockets but I could not afford a liner at the time. So I used what I had, vests and the like. It annoyed me that it had no liner. Later I got another one with the liner. It had less pockets, and in worse locations. I missed the old jacket. I thought that the liner was something I wanted...turns out the other kind of layering was more versitile. So now I don't care, much. What I like about the layering is that in the summer you can use just the shell and be dry.

 

Is it worth it? Yes. I've worked in sleety conditions, stomping around barnyards, for 8 hours and that jacket kept me dry even with it's pockets. If I worked on a fishing boat, yeah, maybe I'd get something different.

 

I have no problem reccomending the Columbia Titanum. Look at other brands. Since I like and use pockets they are important and the new jacket I got...tells me that maybe another quality brand may have them located better.

 

Gortex, or the other clones is good stuff. It's fairly durable. Barbed wire can rip it but sticks, trees, barks and most other types of things you run into are not a problem.

 

Edit: Where I have poked a hole in these jackes with barbed wire, I've used silicone sealer to blob the hole. The stuff is ugly, but oulived the jacket.

Edited September 18, 2007 by Renegade Knight

[mtbikernate]

Bah humbug on the no pockets. The thing is I'm not working a fishing boat in the rain with 30' waves. I'm caching, I'm going out and looking at projects, I'm grocery shopping. My coat has jobs to do and gear to carry.

 

Is it worth it? Yes. I've worked in sleety conditions, stomping around barnyards, for 8 hours and that jacket kept me dry even with it's pockets. If I worked on a fishing boat, yeah, maybe I'd get something different.

 

I have no problem reccomending the Columbia Titanum. Look at other brands. Since I like and use pockets they are important and the new jacket I got...tells me that maybe another quality brand may have them located better.

 

 

We may be referencing different product types. What I was referencing were jackets that have literally dozens of pockets, some internal and some external. It's no biggie to have a few external pockets. It does make sense. My reference to the ski parkas is particularly relevant to INTERNAL pockets, which are senseless on a RAIN jacket, because the moment you open the jacket to access one of the half dozen or so internal pockets is the moment you (and the stuff in your pockets) starts getting wet. Even with external pockets, though, I'd draw a line. Even though a few external ones are fine, since every pocket is a potential entry point for water (not saying that all pockets will leak...or even that most jacket with pockets will develop a leaky pocket...just that the more pockets you have, the greater the chances are for a failure in the waterproofing there), I would stay away from rain jackets that have hand pockets, a pair of chest pockets, a napoleon pocket, shoulder pockets, an ipod/cell phone pocket, etc, etc.

[+cerberus1]

Over the years, I've blown quite a few bucks on many new gizmos that comes down the line...

 

So far, MY money goes to Cabela's "Guide-wear" rain gear. Tough stuff, seems to last forever. Can get the jacket with/wo a liner (I prefer to wear a polartec liner under unlined) and come in parka or "wader" length styles. The bib pants are awesome ! Stay dry for hours in pouring rain.

 

If looking to go ultra-light, try frogg toggs. Hard to get used to (feel like your puttin' on a paper suit), but you'll stay dry from all but downpours.

 

Most of the time I travel with my backpacker's umbrella as an added barrier. Tough to find lately (mine needs repair), they are basically two umbrellas sewn together. One part covers you, the other your pack.

 

Cache safe.

[+Renegade Knight]

....We may be referencing different product types. ...

 

Entirly possible. The gear has to meet the need. Rain Jacket may be very specific, but it sounds like it would not lend itself to geocaching all that well. Where a ski jacket that's waterproof to a high degree may fit the bill, but would drawbacks that may prevent it being useful for other wet jobs.

[+CurmudgeonlyGal]

I have a Marmot Precip jacket (they came out with "Girl" patterns a few years ago... I got mine on clearance because no one would buy them... It's a little less serious than I usually like (read: it's not black) but it was also a little less expensive,, so I sucked it up and just bought it.

 

A lot of people like the color/pattern too, but mostly, I look at and realize it doesn't quite match what I'm going to wear.

 

I love it. I use it A LOT and haven't yet had any trouble with it. It rolls up small enough (smaller would be better) that I always have it in my pack if I'm hiking... yes, even if the weather guy says there's almost no chance of rain.

 

To make up for the color. I bought Marmot Precip black rain pants, which are also holding up very well. I do worry that I will snag and rip them at times. If I know I'm going to be working my a** off on a hike, I'll just wear capilene's under them and gaiters over them and even I stay warm enough. (Read Nate's post above for that non-breathable thing...)

 

I ALSO have a Columbia Titanium jacket/parka (read: it covers my bum). I've had that longer than the precip. I'd never take it hiking - it's too big and bulky, but it's a great coat. I took the 'comes with a fleece inner coat' inner coat out and sent it to the Goodwill because I hated it with a passion. If I need extra warmth, I just use one of any number of other warm-things that I have underneath it - all are less bulky/better fitting than the THING that came with it. It's got a great hood and is awesome at keeping me dry when I need it.

 

Look at Marmot Precip's if you can find one. It's a great light, waterproof layer. I'll be keeping/using mine for a very long time!

 

 

michelle

[+briansnat]

Marmot Precip jackets are a good mix of functionality and price. I own two Precip jackets. They are breathable to a point and waterproof for a while. However both Precip jackets I own, as well as my wife's Precip tend to soak through if used in an extended, heavy rain.

 

So if you want something that is inexpensive and will protect you from a few showers or sudden thunderstorm, Precip works well. The pockets are also well thought out and you can access them even wearing a pack with a hip belt. Precip is also lightweight and very packable, as it will stuff into it's own pocket. However if you are going to be out in an all day rain you might find yourself getting wet using Precip.

 

If you want serious rain gear that will keep you dry for an all day rain, you will need a quality Gore Tex jacket.

The problem is that good Gore Tex jackets are double or triple the price of Precip rainwear. One exception is LL Bean Stowaway rain gear. Bean Stowaway rain gear is Gore Tex at an affordable price.

[bogleman]

You folks really got me thinking now - arghh my brain hurts. I like the "stuffing" and I like the heavy duty; but I don't like getting wet. Spent all last weekend in the rain and nothing I had worked, stinks when you are stuck in it for an extended period of time. Never really think about things like this until it's too late. Again, thanks for the helpful posts.

 

mmmmm winter is just around the corner, at least I've got that down

[mtbikernate]

I've been out in days of rain with my precip, and I've noticed a little internal wetness. I've not decided if the jacket is leaking or if the internal wetness is from my own perspiration. It's not major, either way. One thing I have noticed is that pack shoulder straps of certain types (the type that soak up water) do tend to push some moisture through the fabric. Again, not major, but it's there.

[+benjamin921]

Lowe Alpine Triple Point or Lowe Alpine Dry Zone or Gore-Tex.

[+Hula Bum]

When doing SAR I had my Northface Parka that I loved, though I don't know if they're still as good now as they were back then. Course when you snag it on a barbed wire fence it doesn't work as well.... but, guess that's not the fault of the jacket.

[mtbikernate]

When doing SAR I had my Northface Parka that I loved, though I don't know if they're still as good now as they were back then. Course when you snag it on a barbed wire fence it doesn't work as well.... but, guess that's not the fault of the jacket.

 

Not sure how long ago that was, but TNF clothing doesn't seem to be quite as functional anymore. There are a few items that are still good and functional, but a great deal of it nowadays is marketed towards yuppies and college students who never set foot into the woods, but want to look like they do. There are other brands (even some store brands) that function as well or better at a more attractive price tag.

[Tahosa and Sons]

I'm thinking of trying a Sil poncho (9 oz) instead of all the rain gear. I'd be interested in hearing comments from anybody that has tried the sil ponchos.

Not sure what a sil poncho is but I have made my own poncho from a material that has gortex bonded to it.

 

And I prefer it over my Gortex rain coat. It gives me the breathability that is nice when you have a sudden shower and the temp really hasn't started to drop. When strapped to the outside of my pack I don't even have to take the pack off to use it, and it covers the pack as well. Then I found a polar tech blanket that fits under the poncho so it can be a warm poncho and can be used as an emergency shelter if needed. And I also have a pair of rainpants if it really starts to rain, and a pair of gaiters can be handy when going thru wet grass.

[+fishercz20]

Frogg Toggs are the best.

[+Hula Bum]

When doing SAR I had my Northface Parka that I loved, though I don't know if they're still as good now as they were back then. Course when you snag it on a barbed wire fence it doesn't work as well.... but, guess that's not the fault of the jacket.

 

Not sure how long ago that was, but TNF clothing doesn't seem to be quite as functional anymore. There are a few items that are still good and functional, but a great deal of it nowadays is marketed towards yuppies and college students who never set foot into the woods, but want to look like they do. There are other brands (even some store brands) that function as well or better at a more attractive price tag.

 

Yeah, that would be about 12-14 years ago, hence why I said I didn't know if they were still good. That's a shame that they lost their functionality, cuz it used to be awesome stuff!

[+Fireman78]

I recently bought my first Gore Tex Jacket after 20 plus years of being too cheap. I bought the Tenacity Jacket from Mountain Hardwear and I LOVE IT! Check it out I got it from www.backcountry.com on sale for 260 well worth it!

[+Blaidd-Drwg]

I tend to go with Gore Tex parkas. About 10 years ago, I bought a TNF Mountain Light. I'm still using it, and except for the velcro on the cuffs needing to be sewn back on, it has held up well. It sheds rain well and breathes well. It does tend to loose some of it's beading capability after several wearings, and needs to be treated with a water repellant. I use NikWax for this with good results. Like others have said though, I don't think the current version stands up to use as well as the older model. My latest purchase was an Arc' Teryx Beta. I've yet to put it through it's paces, but I have great hopes. I have found that Pac-lite products don't work for me. I have a Cabela's Paclite that doesn't seem to let any moisture out. I've also used the Precip with good results in very light rain, and cooler temps, but it seems to allow moisture in around the neck. Again, it might be moisture coming from me. My bottom line recommendation is to go with a Gore-Tex jacket or parka, based on your personal likes.

[+belair56]

The Army makes a gortex rain jacket, no pockets but it has a hood works good zipper and velcro on the cuffs, downside it's cammo.

[+dguyellison]

When I was in the Army, I had the full blown ECWCS gear (polypro underwear to bear suit to goretex shell).

We were trained to never wear a non-synthetic layer with the gear. The problem with goretex is you have to have wicking layers between yourself and the shell. If you wear a cotton shirt under the shell, you've just about made it useless as far as wicking moisture goes. The cotton absorbs the moisture, and you can't evaporate it fast enough, goretex or not. So to make goretex do everything it is supposed to do, you need a polypro undershirt and shirt, polypro wicking liner, and then the shell. When it's cold and wet, cotton kills.

 

I use an Eddie Bauer WeatherEdge shell with the matching black polypro liner. It's not really a liner (it snaps in a few places), and I wear it alone all the time. The polypro liner has been treated for wind resistence, so it works well just being around town doing non-caching stuff.

 

The shell is thier version of goretex, and it serves the purpose. Zipoff hood is nice when bushwacking, and it has very tough exterior treatment. What I like about it is it has a pocket on the lower forearm sleeve perfect for my eXplorist 500, and two chest pockets that open to the side, great for maps. Picked it up for about a 100. Losts of colors too.

[+Tuckerman6288]

ID

[+fox-and-the-hound]

I've had a few jackets that all claim to be waterproof including some of those mentioned above, but I've finally settled on wearing a comfortable jacket and just packing along my PVC rain poncho. It snaps on the sides so it can be opened up fully to work as a tent/lean-to shelter while signing into caches, keeps you dry right to your boots and is very light weight. Great ventilation and surprisingly warm when you pass above tree-line. You wouldn't think ventilation would be very good with the PVC, but the adjustable sides make it very easy to adjust to your body heat as you move and conditions change. Best thing about it is the price. You can usually pick one up for under $20 and they are great in dry conditions for pushing through poison ivy and nettle patches. Even most thorn type bushes will usually push over them if you move slowly. Best feature of all is that they fit over your pack/swag bag!