Setting a cache in an area with limited access (timewise)?

[+Delta68]

I've got yet a great idea for a cache but it will be on land only accessible to people connected with the place (quite a few people are) or on annual open days when it is open to the public

 

Would this sort of restriction allowable?

 

It would be a film canister micro to prevent any jokers leaving trackables there

 

I will of course seek full permission from the land owners before setting a cache, but I just wanted to check that it would get approval from the mods first

 

 

Thanks

 

Mark

[+jerryo]

It may fall under these guidelines or others:

 

In the guidelines under the [prohibited] “commercial caches” section it reads: “Commercial caches attempt to use the Geocaching.com web site cache reporting tool directly or indirectly (intentionally or non-intentionally) to solicit customers through a Geocaching.com listing. These are NOT permitted. Examples include for-profit locations that require an entrance fee, or locations that sell products or services. If the finder is required to go inside the business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, then the cache is presumed to be commercial.” I would interpret this rule in your case by saying that in order to acquire the cache, you have to become a member of something outside the caching community.

 

Less pertinent is that it almost comes under the guise of caches that solicit: “Solicitations are off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.”

[+Guanajuato]

There's a couple of attributes that can be set:

Available at all times (set no)

Possibly you could set parking or access fee, even if not strictly true.

 

I'd guess as long as you make it clear that access is limited you'd be fine.

 

A friend just logged the cache on St Kilda as their first (and probably last) find - that's got some severe access limitations - physical, bureacratic (I don't mean that in a negative sense ) and financial (costs a lot to get a boat out there).

 

As long as you've got permission, I can't see there being a problem unless they get inundated with cachers asking for permission to come & find it, or if irresponsible cachers try to find it without asking permission for access.

[+Delta68]

Hmm... the place I have in mind has open days which are free admission, has no commercial or religious interests.

 

I'm pretty sure it meets all other guidelines.

 

This will probably not come to anything anyway , which would be a great shame, as it would be a great location; unique in many ways but familiar in others

[Deceangi]

From reading your comments

 

I've got yet a great idea for a cache but it will be on land only accessible to people connected with the place (quite a few people are) or on annual open days when it is open to the public

 

without knowing the full details, I'd say that the location would fall under the commercial guidelines.

 

For example a NT location only open to members, with a Open day once a year for the general public would be considered commercial. As the amount of time the cache was open to non members of the NT would not be reasonable, and for the majority of the time a fee is payable [NT Membership]

 

As for the St Kilda's cache that has a reasonable period each year in which it can be accessed. How and the cost of travel does not come into the review process [ok the how does for terrain ratings]. Any landowner who grants permission for the placement of a cache, can set access restrictions. Those which we consider reasonable and are not commercial, we will happily publish. We very carefully discussed all aspects of the St Kilda cache including permission, access and maintenance before agreeing to publish it. The cache owner SP worked hard to insure all the boxes were ticked well before the cache was placed and submitted.

[+Delta68]

Thanks for the replies.

 

To make this a bit clearer, the place I have in mind is within the grounds of a college so it would be accessible to the 500 or so people who attend the college plus relatives and staff. Obviously only a few of these would be geocachers, the rest of the public would probably have to wait until an open day.

 

I don't know this for sure though as I have never visited the place in person, but I have seen their website

It might be that the facilities are open to the public at other times but I am imagining a 'worse case' at the moment.

 

I am also currently crafting a grovelling letter seeking permission

 

The location is so unique that it would be too good an opportunity to miss

[+dino-irl]

It might be better if you send an email to the Reviewer that covers your area giving them as much detail as possible before spending time contacting the appropriate authority. No point if the cache won't ever be published.

[+DonB]

It may fall under these guidelines or others:

 

In the guidelines under the [prohibited] “commercial caches” section it reads: “Commercial caches attempt to use the Geocaching.com web site cache reporting tool directly or indirectly (intentionally or non-intentionally) to solicit customers through a Geocaching.com listing. These are NOT permitted. Examples include for-profit locations that require an entrance fee, or locations that sell products or services. If the finder is required to go inside the business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, then the cache is presumed to be commercial.” I would interpret this rule in your case by saying that in order to acquire the cache, you have to become a member of something outside the caching community.

 

Less pertinent is that it almost comes under the guise of caches that solicit: “Solicitations are off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.”

Apparently some reviewers don't enforce all of the rules to the letter of the law. One cache I did in Mexico is in a restaurant at the checkout counter, and another one is at the counter in a tourist information center in Oklahoma.

[+Bear and Ragged]

There is a cache in a village on an Army fireing range. Only open to the public certain times of the year...

 

(*Not that a previous OK gets an OK this time!)

 

G

[+Delta68]

There is a cache in a village on an Army fireing range. Only open to the public certain times of the year...

 

(*Not that a previous OK gets an OK this time!)

 

G

 

Which one is that?

Is it still active?

Might be useful to quote when seeking permission...

 

Thanks

[+dino-irl]

Third paragraph of the guidelines:

 

First and foremost please be advised there is no precedent for placing caches. This means that the past listing of a similar cache in and of itself is not a valid justification for the listing of a new cache. If a cache has been published and violates any guidelines listed below, you are encouraged to report it. However, if the cache was placed prior to the date when a guideline was issued or updated the cache is likely to be “grandfathered” and allowed to stand as is.

[+Bear and Ragged]

Imber in Wiltshire

Its a virtual, dates back to 2004

GCKCJV Ghost Village.

 

The army allow access to Imber 50 days in every year. from HERE

 

and I did say

(*Not that a previous OK gets an OK this time!)

 

G

Edited September 13, 2007 by KandG

[+jerryo]

Apparently some reviewers don't enforce all of the rules to the letter of the law. One cache I did in Mexico is in a restaurant at the checkout counter, and another one is at the counter in a tourist information center in Oklahoma.

 

But they're doable for anyone. This cache has limited access, period.

 

How annoying is it going to be for people to have a cache at the top of their page that they can’t get? Okay there are “ignore lists”, but a lot of people don’t like them (I don’t have one), and some folk may never get the 5/5 cache just down the road but to deliberately put out a cache like this is a bit iffy IMHO.

[+Delta68]

Imber in Wiltshire

Its a virtual, dates back to 2004

GCKCJV Ghost Village.

 

 

Thanks for that. Shame it's not a physical cache...

 

OK I'll come clean

 

What I want to set is a cache to be called:

 

Not Motorway Mayhem M96

 

A 35mm film canister somewhere along the M96 motorway

 

I think it would be a great location - looks like a Motorway Mayhem cache but isn't

 

If anyone fancies trying to get permission, go for it!!

 

I've started drafting a letter but the usual "CITO" benefits to land owners etc don't really apply.....

[+jerryo]

Aaaaaahhh!

 

Brilliant!

 

I see your point.

[+Delta68]

Aaaaaahhh!

 

Brilliant!

 

I see your point.

 

[+jerryo]

Love the smiley

[+L8HNB]

And heres me thinking all that fresh Cotswold air had gone to your head

[+cakemaker]

Had to look it up...now I see what you mean!

Great idea, good luck.

[markandlynn]

Neat and the landowner is really easy to identify.

[Nediam]

......

 

OK I'll come clean

 

What I want to set is a cache to be called:

 

Not Motorway Mayhem M96

 

A 35mm film canister somewhere along the M96 motorway

 

I think it would be a great location - looks like a Motorway Mayhem cache but isn't

 

If anyone fancies trying to get permission, go for it!!

 

I've started drafting a letter but the usual "CITO" benefits to land owners etc don't really apply.....

From having a look at the site with Google Earth, it looks like there may be a few gaps in the hedge where you may be able to get a glimpse of the sites activities. Perhaps you could try one of those if you can't get on site itself.

 

Have a look near:-

 

N 51 59.488 W 001 41.416,

N 51 59.793 W 001 41.436 and

N 51 59.914 W 001 40.469

 

(The latter looks like it's on or very near a public footpath )

[+Pharisee]

Apparently some reviewers don't enforce all of the rules to the letter of the law. One cache I did in Mexico is in a restaurant at the checkout counter, and another one is at the counter in a tourist information center in Oklahoma.

 

I did one down Southampton way a while back that was being held in a tea-shop/burger bar/caravan thingy. You had to ask the very nice lady behind the counter for it (no, the cache, idiot!! ). That was only available during 'opening hours'.

[+Renegade Knight]

I've got yet a great idea for a cache but it will be on land only accessible to people connected with the place (quite a few people are) or on annual open days when it is open to the public

 

Would this sort of restriction allowable?...

 

Yes. On that basis alone it's allowable. A time restriction is one of the challenges of the cache.

Others have pointed out other potential pit falls.

[+Jaz666]

It looks like a very interesting place, as Google Earth led me to a few websites on it.

 

Do though bear in mind that even if you do get permission to place one within the boundary, and it gets published, there will always be a few cachers who will bumble on in and try to find it outside of the approved timeframe.

[+Gralorn]

That was a good cache, 'Ask Angie' or something like that. Car parking and a nice cuppa as well, just brilliant, we sat there at the table on the pebbled beach, looking at the ships and boats as we completed the log.

[+Bear and Ragged]

Well.

I've been there.

I'm not staff, or a firefighter, nor related to anyone who is, and wasn't there at an open day.

(Was there ligitamatly!)

 

IF they say yes, you'd better make it a crash and fire proof container!

 

G

[+Cryptik Souls Crew]

If you look for caches in places like Iraq there are many caches which are within the grounds of army bases, therefore only really available to members of the armed forces.

[+wrighty]

Theres lots of accidents etc on that motorway,played football in the grounds many years ago,heated floor in the changing rooms,

Imber in Wiltshire

Its a virtual, dates back to 2004

GCKCJV Ghost Village.

 

 

Thanks for that. Shame it's not a physical cache...

 

OK I'll come clean

 

What I want to set is a cache to be called:

 

Not Motorway Mayhem M96

 

A 35mm film canister somewhere along the M96 motorway

 

I think it would be a great location - looks like a Motorway Mayhem cache but isn't

 

If anyone fancies trying to get permission, go for it!!

 

I've started drafting a letter but the usual "CITO" benefits to land owners etc don't really apply.....

Edited September 13, 2007 by wrighty

[+sTeamTraen]

A time restriction like "only 9-5" or even maybe (pushing it a bit) "only Sundays" might get past the reviewers, but I doubt if they'd go for "there are open days once or twice a year".

[+Simply Paul]

There's several caches on tidal islands, which can only be reached on foot at certain times of day - otherwise you need specialist equipment in the shape of a boat... I suppose you could set a cache on an island that's only reachable a couple of times of year at unusually low tides? If so, what would the difference be? Alternatively, you could set a cache that's only loggable by people/teams starting with A in January, B in February, C in March, etc. Under this system, people/teams starting with Z might have to wait 4 years for their chance! I've done a similar, if less extreme cache like this. Twice, as I tried to cheat

 

M96 looks excellent. I bet Casualty has filmed there!

[+Cryptik Souls Crew]

 

M96 looks excellent.

 

Just looks like a motorway to me!

[+Simply Paul]

M96 looks excellent.

Just looks like a motorway to me!

I am shockingly easy to please Found a very interesting site about it, and other motorway curios: www.pathetic.org.uk

[+Cryptik Souls Crew]

M96 looks excellent.

Just looks like a motorway to me!

I am shockingly easy to please Found a very interesting site about it, and other motorway curios: www.pathetic.org.uk

 

I found that too, and intend to check out the A4(M) at the earliest opportunity!

[Alan White]

A fascinating site. I can see a new cache series there. One already exists Motorway Maybe M23 J6 - Beddington.

 

Michael: you might have trouble placing a cache at the actual disused bit of the A4(M). Despite the photos it doesn't look like there's public access. However, the footbridge around N51°30.293 W000°43.816 seems to present a good view of the disused section.

[+DonB]

Apparently some reviewers don't enforce all of the rules to the letter of the law. One cache I did in Mexico is in a restaurant at the checkout counter, and another one is at the counter in a tourist information center in Oklahoma.

 

But they're doable for anyone. This cache has limited access, period.

 

How annoying is it going to be for people to have a cache at the top of their page that they can’t get? Okay there are “ignore lists”, but a lot of people don’t like them (I don’t have one), and some folk may never get the 5/5 cache just down the road but to deliberately put out a cache like this is a bit iffy IMHO.

But it should still come under the following.

 

In the guidelines under the [prohibited] “commercial caches” section it reads: “Commercial caches attempt to use the Geocaching.com web site cache reporting tool directly or indirectly (intentionally or non-intentionally) to solicit customers through a Geocaching.com listing. These are NOT permitted. Examples include for-profit locations that require an entrance fee, or locations that sell products or services. If the finder is required to go inside the business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, then the cache is presumed to be commercial.” I would interpret this rule in your case by saying that in order to acquire the cache, you have to become a member of something outside the caching community.

[+L8HNB]

Well.

I've been there.

I'm not staff, or a firefighter, nor related to anyone who is, and wasn't there at an open day.

(Was there ligitamatly!)

 

IF they say yes, you'd better make it a crash and fire proof container!

 

G

 

I had to stop there on the Friday night of the recent floods, trying to get home from Milton Keynes!

 

The staff and volunteers were brilliant, even found me an en-suite room and sent me off after providing a full English. It still took me best part of 3 hours to do about 13 miles, I was one of the luck ones

 

H

[+jerryo]

Apparently some reviewers don't enforce all of the rules to the letter of the law. One cache I did in Mexico is in a restaurant at the checkout counter, and another one is at the counter in a tourist information center in Oklahoma.

 

But they're doable for anyone. This cache has limited access, period.

 

How annoying is it going to be for people to have a cache at the top of their page that they can’t get? Okay there are “ignore lists”, but a lot of people don’t like them (I don’t have one), and some folk may never get the 5/5 cache just down the road but to deliberately put out a cache like this is a bit iffy IMHO.

But it should still come under the following.

 

In the guidelines under the [prohibited] “commercial caches” section it reads: “Commercial caches attempt to use the Geocaching.com web site cache reporting tool directly or indirectly (intentionally or non-intentionally) to solicit customers through a Geocaching.com listing. These are NOT permitted. Examples include for-profit locations that require an entrance fee, or locations that sell products or services. If the finder is required to go inside the business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, then the cache is presumed to be commercial.” I would interpret this rule in your case by saying that in order to acquire the cache, you have to become a member of something outside the caching community.

Er, why are you quoting me and then using my previous post as your reply? Me no understandeee