Geocache Police

[+Harry Dolphin]

[i'm going to second the sentiments of the wise oriental feline. I'll also applaud Bushlight for one of the most successful thread hijackings of all time.

 

So can we forget about the Indiana cache, and get back to discussing the cache that the OP has a problem with?

 

Tough to discuss the original subject of the thread. The cache owner has deleted all relevant logs. The only insight was provided by The Leprechauns concerning the deleted log/s.

So, the question is when such problems should be reported to the reviewer? This one was found last on July 14. Note on page says: " It's home has been more or less destroyed. Also I am recovering form a broken ankle and therefore I can't get out to find a new hiding spot." Sort of tough on the poor owner. I saw a nice cache get archived for that reason.

It all seems to come down to the complainers/(cache condition reporters). Don't know what the answer is here. Cache A has been reported as damp for two years now, and the owner has been missing for three years. It's still going strong (though damp). Cache B (cited above - owner with broken ankle) had one DNF reported to the reviewer as 'needs maintenance'. That one was archived. Squeeky wheel gets oiled.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

It's interesting that the OP hasn't come back to post any more explanations in this thread.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Naw. Not that unusual. Lots of people vent their spleen with a post like that. And having vented never return. That allows those of us with nothing better to parse every verb, and hijack the thread.

The moving spleen, having vented, moves on.

[+geomann1]

Well, I guess I should go buy a badge, since I seem to fit two out of three othe OPs criteria for "Cache Police of CA".

 

Yes, if there is a problem with your cache, I will "criticize" it! Things like "No Trespassing" signs and a bison tube cache with no container size listed are things I have felt appropriate to mention in my logs. I also tend to send emails to cache owners pointing out issues. Poorly placed caches and misleading logs reduce other folks enjoyment of the hobby--I think that a cache owner should be prepared to her about any issues with their cache.

 

Yes, if there is an inappropriate item I will remove it (even if I don't have a trade)! I have removed fireworks, matches, pocket knives, and even a single-serving bottle of vodka. There are definate standards and guidelines of what is not appropriate.

 

Instead of making remarks about those who protect and serve, maybe the OP should learn to take criticism in stride, and make sure that their caches meet community standards...

 

Dave_W6DPS

 

Bottle of vodka. I can see your point, barbaric, now if it was scotch whisky.

Why would a pocket knife be inappropriate?

 

This illustrates an important point, one man's acceptable material is another's inappropriate. We would all be better off if just minded our OWN caches.

[+Mudfrog]

Well, I guess I should go buy a badge, since I seem to fit two out of three othe OPs criteria for "Cache Police of CA".

 

Yes, if there is a problem with your cache, I will "criticize" it! Things like "No Trespassing" signs and a bison tube cache with no container size listed are things I have felt appropriate to mention in my logs. I also tend to send emails to cache owners pointing out issues. Poorly placed caches and misleading logs reduce other folks enjoyment of the hobby--I think that a cache owner should be prepared to her about any issues with their cache.

 

Yes, if there is an inappropriate item I will remove it (even if I don't have a trade)! I have removed fireworks, matches, pocket knives, and even a single-serving bottle of vodka. There are definate standards and guidelines of what is not appropriate.

 

Instead of making remarks about those who protect and serve, maybe the OP should learn to take criticism in stride, and make sure that their caches meet community standards...

 

Dave_W6DPS

 

Bottle of vodka. I can see your point, barbaric, now if it was scotch whisky.

Why would a pocket knife be inappropriate?

 

This illustrates an important point, one man's acceptable material is another's inappropriate. We would all be better off if just minded our OWN caches.

 

I do not see a problem with pocket knives being left in some caches either but GC.com guidelines state that they are inappropriate. This makes removing a knife from a cache the right thing to do in most cases..

[+Bushlight]

Naw. Not that unusual. Lots of people vent their spleen with a post like that. And having vented never return. That allows those of us with nothing better to parse every verb, and hijack the thread.

The moving spleen, having vented, moves on.

I didn't want to hijack this thread.Just wanted you look at this cache.

[+Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking]

It all seems to come down to the complainers/(cache condition reporters). Don't know what the answer is here. Cache A has been reported as damp for two years now, and the owner has been missing for three years. It's still going strong (though damp). Cache B (cited above - owner with broken ankle) had one DNF reported to the reviewer as 'needs maintenance'. That one was archived. Squeeky wheel gets oiled.

 

If only that were true. There are several caches in my area, missing for months, owners long gone from geocaching, with several SBA posts on them, and they are still listed. Granted they are disabled, but they are not archived.

[+rdaines]

Abandoned caches can live for years through the good intentions of finders. When someone finally does a Maintenance request subsequent finds may report that the cache seems OK. This is great IF the cache owner is still active on GC.com but is having trouble getting to the cache (away at college, injured, ...). If the owner has moved on and is inactive (1 year+?) then it is abandoned and should be archived, freeing up the spot to someone else.

[+Team Tigger International]

It would also be great to see us get back to being a much more friendly bunch ... wherein we see a cache is in need of repair .. and offer to give assistance to the owner if he would like it .

 

Myself I think I would have offered to help either cache owner here repair /replace there cache for them if I were in a position to do so .

 

If I was from out of town and found either cache I probably would log a needs maint. log on them . Or at least made a comment about the condition of the cache in my log.

 

Star

[+rdaines]

It would also be great to see us get back to being a much more friendly bunch ... wherein we see a cache is in need of repair .. and offer to give assistance to the owner if he would like it .

 

Myself I think I would have offered to help either cache owner here repair /replace there cache for them if I were in a position to do so .

 

If I was from out of town and found either cache I probably would log a needs maint. log on them . Or at least made a comment about the condition of the cache in my log.

 

Star

 

Agreed and I have done so on several occassions. However, no relpies and no log ins to GC.com require different actions.

[+ClayC]

So can we forget about the Indiana cache, and get back to discussing the cache that the OP has a problem with?

 

Yeah, that would be nice. Grubber may not be the most timely of cache maint. people, but he does get the job done. He just performed maint. on a couple of his other caches recently, one of which is more than a drive up and drop off, so Im sure he will get to it.

[+Confucius' Cat]

It is hard to know where to "draw the line" or indeed even if there really should even BE a line.

 

In the big scheme, this is just a diversion for our pleasure and enjoyment. Said enjoyment is a two-way street. A cacher hates to DNF or attempt to sign a nasty wet log. But at the same time a cache owner shouldn't be unduly burdened by requirements of "timely maintenance" that some line-drawers arbitrarily define without benefit of knowing the cache owner's particular situation.

 

Cache owners (most) have other things that they have to do, some of which, as strange as it may seem, are FAR more important than caching.

 

It is interesting to me that in all the discussions of "lame caches" we have the constant drone of "if you don't like 'em don't hunt 'em." But on the maintenance issue we don't seem to apply the same standard.

 

So basically, a cache with a wet log is just another "lame cache." If you know the cache has a wet log as evidenced by previous logs, and you don't like wet logs, don't hunt it.

 

If a cache is apparently missing, based on previous logs, and you don't like looking for caches that probably aren't there (but MIGHT be nonetheless) simply don't hunt it.

 

Finally, if you are the owner of a cache that has a report of needs maintenance, it is the "best practice" to get to it as soon as PRACTICAL. that is clearly your responsibility and if you cannot get it done you need only contact a fellow cacher or two till you find someone who will do it for you.

 

But if there is something else more important going on in your life, the world will continue to turn just fine with another "lame" cache. In fact, I doubt the man in the moon will even notice the difference.

 

Could contribute to global warming though.

 

Buy a lame cache offset.

[+Bushlight]

When i said to look at this cache.I wanted you to read what the guy who found it after me said. Not what the owner said in his posting of the cache.He said TFTC one day and then the next he gripes about it.He didn't have to sign the log he could have just drove off.I signed it and it was wet when i did. But i didn't gripe about it.I've seen alot of wet logs.I've even seen one that came out of a decon frozen solid.So let's forget about the Indiana cache.And get back to the other cache.

[+Renegade Knight]

...So basically, a cache with a wet log is just another "lame cache." If you know the cache has a wet log as evidenced by previous logs, and you don't like wet logs, don't hunt it....

That's why my cache pen is a Unibal Power Tank. It can write on damp, and the ink doesn't run.

[+Bushlight]

Is that a pen? Where did you get it at?

Edited September 12, 2007 by Bushlight

[+Confucius' Cat]

...So basically, a cache with a wet log is just another "lame cache." If you know the cache has a wet log as evidenced by previous logs, and you don't like wet logs, don't hunt it....

That's why my cache pen is a Unibal Power Tank. It can write on damp, and the ink doesn't run.

I'm always looking for a good pen. Is that model smooth and BOLD?

 

(Is it possible to be off topic in a hijacked thread? Can you hijack an already hijacked thread?)

[+Bushlight]

i thought we where going back to the OP's cache problem

[+Confucius' Cat]

i thought we where going back to the OP's cache problem

Are you trying to hijack this wet log pen thread?

[+Bushlight]

Nope

[+ranger family]

Personally, if we feel that a cache needs maintenance or needs to be moved for whatever reason, then a brief log to that effect is sufficient in the public domain & then if needs be an email to the owner. We do not feel that berating the owner in a public log is good for the sport. There was a neo cacher who had not hidden nor even found a cache was busy complaining about unmaintained caches from another state. This cacher has not been around for some months possibly as a result of irate emails from cache owners from someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. I do agree that if we are to be critical of cache hides, then we should be critical of our own. (let he whose cache is perfect cast the first log).

[+rdaines]

Regarding wet logs and "some cache owners have better things to do":

The log is an integral part of the cache, no log = no cache. Most people can't write on a wet, soggy log book and if it is mush then it is of no use which is trash. Whining about people's lifestyle and how busy they are means that they shouldn't be placing cache or should have fewer that are closer to home. If you checked the boxes then you should abide by the rules.

[+HoweFamily]

You can't cover emergencies there though - it's the nature of the beast.

So there has to be some tolerance of the unexpected.

 

In the main though, I agree with the point that if you hide it, you should maintain it in a reasonable time frame (or ask somone else to) - or disable until you can.

 

TheWife

HoweFamily

[+ranger family]

We always a carry cache repair kit including spare log books for just such an emergency.

[+rdaines]

I agree with the above two posts and as I have stated elsewhere above, I have replaced logs too. But, at some point (1 year) if the owner doesn't indicate maintenance a cache is abandoned and can take on a life of its own because of the generous actions of others. So even if the cache appers to be OK, it should be archived because there is no one responsible for it.

[+Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking]

Cachers who maintain abandoned caches can formally adopt the cache. We did that with one abandoned cache that we were quite fond of. Its not that difficult to do. There was another cache in the area that was abandoned and not adopted but was locally maintained for a couple of years before it needed to be archived for other reasons. If there is evidence that a cache is being maintained, there is no reason to archive it.

[+rdaines]

Cachers who maintain abandoned caches can formally adopt the cache. We did that with one abandoned cache that we were quite fond of. Its not that difficult to do. There was another cache in the area that was abandoned and not adopted but was locally maintained for a couple of years before it needed to be archived for other reasons. If there is evidence that a cache is being maintained, there is no reason to archive it.

 

The adoption (IMHO) needs to be official, there needs to be a point of contact, someone who will answer email and is responsible for the cache. A catch-as catch-can defacto adoption is not the way to go.

[+Jeep_Dog]

Here is Southern California we pride ourselves on having a live and let live philosophy.

 

Except, of course, for those who wish to light up a tobacco product in a pub or bar. In those cases, law enforcement is embraced.

 

If these people want to play cop why don't they go join the military or the police force where they can dominate other people to their hearts' content? Leave the rest of us alone and get a life.

 

Apparently, you believe some of the fictional cliche found in movies made there in SoCal.

 

I have served on active duty for 18 years to protect the Constitution. Domination never entered my mind.

[+Cache Liberation Front]

Here is Southern California we pride ourselves on having a live and let live philosophy. Sadly there are a few in the geocaching sport who can't leave well enough alone and want to be The Geocache Police.

 

These people take it upon theselves to criticize other people's caches, remove items that they deem inappropriate, and even move another persons cache to what they consider a "better" location. I have had all of the above happen to my cache. Where do these people get off?

 

If these people want to play cop why don't they go join the military or the police force where they can dominate other people to their hearts' content? Leave the rest of us alone and get a life.

 

To all those quick to unfurl their holy flags and drape themselves in it sanctity to slam the OP (you should slam him for other reasons ) , please take note that from a social psychologist's standpoint (which I'm not), the OP's statement is indeed grounded in some validity. Anyone who can't see the possible corruptive power and easy abuse of authority (e.g. military/civil law enforcement) needs to go back to school.

 

Go check out Zimbardo's Stanford prison experiments, as well as Milgram's Yale studies.

 

MrW.

[+Cache Liberation Front]

Here is Southern California we pride ourselves on having a live and let live philosophy.

 

Except, of course, for those who wish to light up a tobacco product in a pub or bar. In those cases, law enforcement is embraced.

 

If these people want to play cop why don't they go join the military or the police force where they can dominate other people to their hearts' content? Leave the rest of us alone and get a life.

 

Apparently, you believe some of the fictional cliche found in movies made there in SoCal.

 

I have served on active duty for 18 years to protect the Constitution. Domination never entered my mind.

 

I have no idea who you are, so I'll just assume you're a nice bloke, but....

 

When you say "domination never entered my mind...." Do you honestly think you'd come here and tell us if it did?

 

MrW.

[+Jeep_Dog]

 

If these people want to play cop why don't they go join the military or the police force where they can dominate other people to their hearts' content? Leave the rest of us alone and get a life.

 

To all those quick to unfurl their holy flags and drape themselves in it sanctity to slam the OP (you should slam him for other reasons ) , please take note that from a social psychologist's standpoint (which I'm not), the OP's statement is indeed grounded in some validity. Anyone who can't see the possible corruptive power and easy abuse of authority (e.g. military/civil law enforcement) needs to go back to school.

 

Go check out Zimbardo's Stanford prison experiments, as well as Milgram's Yale studies.

 

MrW.

 

What is your point?

 

Ed's post suggested that folks who wish to "police" caches should join the military to dominate others, not point out the possible corruptive power and easy abuse of authority. His suggestion was that those thrown in authoritative roles may behave authoritative, rather than that the military/police are good places for those of distrubitional attribution to dominate others. The Zimbardo study results are said to support situational attributions of behavior, not the sadistic nature of individuals who choose to join the military or police.

 

Milgram's study birthed two theories. The first is the theory of conformism - a subject who has neither ability nor expertise to make decisions, especially in a crisis, will leave decision making to the group and its hierarchy. The second is the agentic state theory - this is supposedly the foundation of military respect for authority, soldiers will follow, obey, and execute orders and commands from superiors, understanding that responsibility for their actions rests with the commanding superior officers. This hardly applies to US military, and I would challenge you to look up the Uniformed Code of Military Justice to see what happens to military personnel who blindly follow orders that constitute breaking a law.

 

While needing more school, your suggestion is unwarranted. With or without flag draped about me, I shall state it again:

 

I joined to protect the Constitution. Any inference otherwise is an insult to my professionalism.

 

edit: In relevance to geocaching, I seriously doubt neither the Zimbardo nor Milgram studies apply to our gallant volunteer reviewers.

Edited September 13, 2007 by Jeep_Dog

[+Scaber]

I can't believe that in that time no one has brought along an extra log and a baggie with them. If I am out for a day of caching most of the time I bring a few extra goodies including a spare logs and mini baggies. If I see that a cache needs an extra or dry log I replace it and let the owner know.

[+kylebowers]

There are Nazis everywhere, I post alot of things on Craigslist and have to deal with the list Nazis there also. Just work around them and don't let it get to you. We defeated Hitler in World War II and we'll defeat the List Nazis too.

[+Kit Fox]

There are Nazis everywhere, I post alot of things on Craigslist and have to deal with the list Nazis there also. Just work around them and don't let it get to you. We defeated Hitler in World War II and we'll defeat the List Nazis too.

 

By invoking Godwin's Law, you effectively killed the thread.

[+Rockin Roddy]

There are Nazis everywhere, I post alot of things on Craigslist and have to deal with the list Nazis there also. Just work around them and don't let it get to you. We defeated Hitler in World War II and we'll defeat the List Nazis too.

 

In other words, you post to craigslist (agreeing to their terms) and then are caught from time to time "cheating" on those terms??

 

I think nazi is a bit harsh....maybe even a bit offensive.

[+Team Cotati]

There are Nazis everywhere, I post alot of things on Craigslist and have to deal with the list Nazis there also. Just work around them and don't let it get to you. We defeated Hitler in World War II and we'll defeat the List Nazis too.

 

By invoking Godwin's Law, you effectively killed the thread.

 

That is only true for those who have no ability to ignore irrelevant and useless rants.

 

Speaking only for my little self, I have not had an issue with "bossy" cachers. Since I generally ignore such behavior in people, I think that it is safe to say that that will remain the case for the foreseeable future. If that changes, then I'll deal with it in my own way, on my own terms. I won't be seeking approval or permission from anyone.

Edited September 19, 2007 by Team Cotati