How evil is too evil?

[+quills]

I won't give too many deatails here because we have alot of local cachers but I have an idea that should stump just about anyone looking for it. The only problem I have is I don't want to scare off new cachers that might want the challenge. Any ideas?

[+awhsom]

I won't give too many deatails here because we have alot of local cachers but I have an idea that should stump just about anyone looking for it. The only problem I have is I don't want to scare off new cachers that might want the challenge. Any ideas?

Just say no

Edited September 6, 2007 by awhsom

[+StarBrand]

Rate the difficulty appropriately and back it up with the detail in the listing. Use the clayjar system. Should do it.

[+quills]

I guess I should say our cahers have a pretty good hider here locally but this might compete with his hides.This one will really be an evil hide. I will e-mail details to someone who is not local.

[+Robespierre]

Look up some caches like Dehydrated, or Three Monkeys, or several others by BiT (Buckeyes in Texas), and check out the dnf count. (43015)

 

Oh, and we have a small group meeting down there Saturday if you'd care to come. You might read some logs by some frustrated cachers who are planning not to seek 'em for awhile. You can make evil caches, and some will like 'em.

Edited September 6, 2007 by Robespierre

[+IDLookout]

There may be new cachers, upon finding your evil cache, get such a big kick out of it that they decide to place some evil ones of their own in response.

 

It can only help the game.

[+quills]

I guess I'm just thinking about getting a new cacher discouraged by not finding this. I know about the ratings and listing the caches. I just don't want to have someone give up on caching because they can't find this one. Like I said this one will be evil. Very hard to find the cache.

[+IDLookout]

I guess I'm just thinking about getting a new cacher discouraged by not finding this. I know about the ratings and listing the caches. I just don't want to have someone give up on caching because they can't find this one. Like I said this one will be evil. Very hard to find the cache.

 

I guess like what was listed above - a very creative and descriptive web page usually does the trick.

[+Kit Fox]

The key to an evil cache is to properly rate the difficulty and terrain, and be sure to be open and honest on your cache page that this cache is hard to find.

 

 

The most evil cache that I ever found was a fake green Ivy leaf hidden amongst a see of green Ivy and Juniper trees. Many experienced cachers DNFed this cache (multiple times), I got lucky and found it in less than ten minutes.

Edited September 6, 2007 by Kit Fox

[+Scaber]

Some of my most memorable finds are ones that I really had to work for. Many caches I had to go back several times to find. Although I love finding all caches, it does get a bit repetitive to drive up to light pole skirt lifters. It is interesting and unique caches that makes me love our recreation. There are pleantly of easy caches around. Please place a cache that people have to work for.

[+coreynjoey]

Do it! Just let it be known in your description that it'll be hard. We need evil caches every once in awhile to keep us from getting too cocky!

[+Wayfarer-MD]

Here is a story about what I would really would appreciate. Something - unusual - off the wall - but not a needle in a haystack. Something you wander around, check the few obvious spots that are there - but to no avail. Maybe you have a DNF, and later reload the cache page - to see that someone else has just found it!. You go back, wander around a bit more, and something you have previously ignored just jumps out at you - it has to be THERE. And it is.

Edited September 6, 2007 by Wayfarer-MD

[+kingsting]

Here is a story about what I would really would appreciate. Something - unusual - off the wall - but not a needle in a haystack. Something you wander around, check the few obvious spots that are there - but to no avail. Maybe you have a DNF, and later reload the cache page - to see that someone else has just found it!. You go back, wander around a bit more, and something you have previously ignored just jumps out at you - it has to be THERE. And it is.

 

I second this one. The fake rock keyhider in a huge pile of rocks, the fake leaf in a thick bush or tree, or the black Mr. Magneto in a railroad bridge full of rivets are all "evil" hides but aren't much fun to look for and you don't get much satisfaction when you finally find it. A good evil hide is something totally out of the box, usually right in plain view.

[CoyoteRed]

I guess I'm just thinking about getting a new cacher discouraged by not finding this.

If it's properly rated dont' worry about newbies getting discouraged. They shouldn't be hunting difficult caches to start off with. The vast majority of caches are really easy. The occasionally hard one only leaves the other 90% findable.

 

Also, there is no such thing as "too hard." The entertainment factor should always be in the forefront of your mind. Keep them entertained and the most difficult cache will be great. Make it boring and folks may just walk off never to return.

 

You should also watch out for environmental factors. Make sure long hunts won't adversely affect the area. Example: circling a statue on concrete will not leave a mark while circling a tree while walking on dry leaves would.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Rate the difficulty appropriately and back it up with the detail in the listing. Use the clayjar system. Should do it.

Very well said. Simply rate the Difficulty and Terrain appropriately, and go ahead and list the cache!

[Dinoprophet]

I guess I'm just thinking about getting a new cacher discouraged by not finding this.

If it's properly rated dont' worry about newbies getting discouraged. They shouldn't be hunting difficult caches to start off with. The vast majority of caches are really easy. The occasionally hard one only leaves the other 90% findable.

 

Also, there is no such thing as "too hard." The entertainment factor should always be in the forefront of your mind. Keep them entertained and the most difficult cache will be great. Make it boring and folks may just walk off never to return.

 

You should also watch out for environmental factors. Make sure long hunts won't adversely affect the area. Example: circling a statue on concrete will not leave a mark while circling a tree while walking on dry leaves would.

This is excellent advice. The entertainment factor is important. Don't confuse "evil" with "tedious". Challenge people's minds and/or bodies, not their patience.

[+avpas]

In addition to the appropriate rating, know that wherever you hide an evil micro will get a beating due to scorched earth cachers. Make sure ground zero near your evil micro will be able to take a beating and not show it. We had an evil micro in the woods in a park appear over the winter. I had a DNF on it its first day. When I returned two weeks later to search again, everything within a 20 foot radius (except for the fully grown trees) was trashed. There wasn't a loose twig, dead leaf, or moss within that radius. The ground was bare dirt and many branches of standing trees had damage, too.

 

I'm not saying don't do it. Just please be sure your GZ can take a bunch of frustrated cachers trampling about.

[bogleman]

hmmm, no help to the locals - well that leaves me out. How about tossing a bone and share the general area where you plan on hiding this? Will the container be natural or machine made. If it is in a high traffic area I would more than likely just pass and not even get out of the car unless it was something unique.

[+The Jester]

I guess I'm just thinking about getting a new cacher discouraged by not finding this.

If it's properly rated dont' worry about newbies getting discouraged. They shouldn't be hunting difficult caches to start off with. The vast majority of caches are really easy. The occasionally hard one only leaves the other 90% findable.

<snip>

The key words are "shouldn't be". I have one very tough hide that some newbies chose as their first (and only hunt) - they weren't knowledgeable enough to see that it was a very hard cache. I even emailed them not to be discouraged after their DNF, but they never tried again. So it happens, but you can't stop people from making mistakes, so place the cache and make those who enjoy the challenge happy.

[Uberquandary]

Look up some caches like Dehydrated, or Three Monkeys, or several others by BiT (Buckeyes in Texas), and check out the dnf count. (43015)

 

Oh, and we have a small group meeting down there Saturday if you'd care to come. You might read some logs by some frustrated cachers who are planning not to seek 'em for awhile. You can make evil caches, and some will like 'em.

Am I reading this right? 43015 DNFs on one cache?

[Luckless]

I don't care for evil caches that are a needle in a haystack- where the coordinates are so off that I have to clear every leaf and rock to be sure that it's not there. I love right on coordinates and really respect the hider who can take me right to the cache, but the hide is so evil/clever that I could be looking at or standing on it and not know it. When I do find it I am always happily surprised. My favorite evil cache so far was one that took me to the middle of a vacant parking lot. For all intents and purposes there didn't appear to be anything there but pavement. There were a couple of false finds- containers with a note saying sorry this isn't it, to further baffle my attempts. Then I read where someone had written in the logs that they needed to use their geocaching sense to get it. So I thought like a cacher and voila.

Nano caches are in my eyes some of the most evil and I appreciate a heads up when hunting a nano so I know what I am looking for.

Edited September 6, 2007 by Luckless

[nobby.nobbs]

Just ask yourself a simple question. Am I setting this to give entertainment for other cachers or just for myself?

 

Too many "evil" caches are just very very tedious ie the fake rock on the pebble beach. make it original, make it interesting make it worth repeated attempts to find it and make sure that you make it clear in the description.

 

If you are the other type that is someone who is just out to derive pleasure at other people's frustration then go ahead, but the fact that you're asking makes me think this is unlikely.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I don't care for evil caches that are a needle in a haystack- where the coordinates are so off that I have to clear every leaf and rock to be sure that it's not there. I love right on coordinates and really respect the hider who can take me right to the cache, but the hide is so evil/clever that I could be looking at or standing on it and not know it.

 

And that is the difference between an evil cache and a nasty cache.

 

Too many "evil" caches are just very very tedious ie the fake rock on the pebble beach. make it original, make it interesting make it worth repeated attempts to find it and make sure that you make it clear in the description.

 

Those are nasty, not evil! (My definition.)

 

I hate fake rocks. That's why I put mine in a woodpecker hole! (Doesn't mean that people find it easily, though.)

 

Of course, I have a few evil mystery caches. They're an entirely different story.

But, one shouldnot expect a lot of finds on evil caches. Oh, well. For those who find them, they are rewarding.

[+quills]

I've decided I'm going to place the cache. I know the general area I just have to find just the right spot for it. I guess I'm doing some scouting tommorrow.

[+Confucius' Cat]

An old "wise man" once said "there is nothing new under the sun."

 

I am not local and I'm interested if the idea is similar to any that i have seen. Pls send details (especially if you don't mind a potential .... copy CAT)

[+outdoorsaddix]

Make it for premium members only, there are very few newbs that ever spring for a full membership (im kinda odd I did) but that would prevent what you think might happen.

[+Zop]

Do it! Just let it be known in your description that it'll be hard. We need evil caches every once in awhile to keep us from getting too cocky!

 

AMEN!

[+Zop]

I really don't think there is any thing wrong with "Evil" hides or even "Nasty" ones but as a cacher and a placer, I try to keep one thing in mind. To me anyway, I want my hides to be found. Some easily, others not so easily but none the less, they are meant to be found. When someone places a cache in such a way that it becomes more of a "I can hide it better than you" hide, then I feel the whole spirit of the game is lost on ego.