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Too Much Exposure?


Tally Dragon
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I think it's a bad idea to over promote this activity and an even worst idea to take it into the schools. Kids today are disrespectful at best.

 

As a homeschooler, I disagree. Gecocaching is part of our curriculum and my three kids (8,7, and 5) have a blast. They are also very respectable of the caches. I think the key is to start education at an early age. And not to forget the all important lesson of respect with whatever is taught. But no matter how much respect is "spoken of", it is better learned through example. That's what falls on us as adults to do.

 

The part in bold changes your situation quite a bit. Yes I know I made a blanket statement but everything has it's exceptions.

 

So you're implying that my child, who attends public school, is disrespectful? That's disrespectful.

 

Oh, by the way, the neuter singular possessive pronoun is "its," not "it's." "It's" is a contraction for "it is." I learned that in public school, thank you very much. In what kind of school did you fail to learn it?

 

(Yes, "spelling flames" are usually lame, but thanks to you, we're talking about the relative value of different kinds of education. Everything has its exceptions! :) )

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Here in Southern California there is an abundance of selfish and materialistic people (especially kids) that are "all about" themselves. My opinion is that many these people would not be a benefit to the sport. Since CA is overrun with illegals we would have to do geo-promotions in Spanish to reach out to the new majority.

 

I'm much less worried about the potentially undercommitted geocachers who might join our sport than with the scary, obsessive, loudmouthed xenophobes, gun nuts, and other extremist politicians we already have in the ranks, who pervert every geocaching-related thread in the forums into a rant about their wacko politics.

 

Similarly, I'm much less worried about the potentially undercommitted residents of the USA who might join our society than with the scary, obsessive, loudmouthed xenophobes, gun nuts, and other extremist politicians we already have in the ranks, who pervert every issue in American soceity into a rant about their wacko politics.

 

In both cases, in my opinion, the newcomers are much more likely to work hard and contribute to the sport, or to the society, than to be "selfish and materialistic people" like some chronologically grown-up but tantrum-throwing nativist extremists who have the random "advantage" of having come through the doors a few years earlier than somebody else.

 

How about if we get back to the fun of finding canisters in the woods (and parking lots) instead of spitting on people who happen to speak languages some among us are too lazy and selfish to learn?

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I think it's a bad idea to over promote this activity and an even worst idea to take it into the schools. Kids today are disrespectful at best.

 

As a homeschooler, I disagree. Gecocaching is part of our curriculum and my three kids (8,7, and 5) have a blast. They are also very respectable of the caches. I think the key is to start education at an early age. And not to forget the all important lesson of respect with whatever is taught. But no matter how much respect is "spoken of", it is better learned through example. That's what falls on us as adults to do.

 

The part in bold changes your situation quite a bit. Yes I know I made a blanket statement but everything has it's exceptions.

 

So you're implying that my child, who attends public school, is disrespectful? That's disrespectful.

 

Oh, by the way, the neuter singular possessive pronoun is "its," not "it's." "It's" is a contraction for "it is." I learned that in public school, thank you very much. In what kind of school did you fail to learn it?

 

(Yes, "spelling flames" are usually lame, but thanks to you, we're talking about the relative value of different kinds of education. Everything has its exceptions! :) )

 

I'm sorry, which one of us are you talking to? I'm the one who said I was a homeschooler, yet made no mention of anyone being disrespectful, homeschooling or not. There are three different people being quoted above, besides you.....are you aware of that?

 

Personally, the only children I believe are disrespectful, are the one's being disrespectful. Which, even my homeschooled kids can be at times. If you read my later post, I made mention to the fact that even homeschooled children have their moments. There are differences between homeschooled kids and publically schooled kids, but I never brought any of those points up in my post, so I certainly hope your remarks weren't directed towards me. This isn't a site for a debate on schooling options for your children.

 

And as far as the whole "it's" vs. "its" issue, I never used the contraction in my post. The contraction was misused by another member who didn't say that they homeschooled, so the faux pas is on you, dear sir.

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I think it's a bad idea to over promote this activity and an even worst idea to take it into the schools. Kids today are disrespectful at best.

 

As a homeschooler, I disagree. Gecocaching is part of our curriculum and my three kids (8,7, and 5) have a blast. They are also very respectable of the caches. I think the key is to start education at an early age. And not to forget the all important lesson of respect with whatever is taught. But no matter how much respect is "spoken of", it is better learned through example. That's what falls on us as adults to do.

 

The part in bold changes your situation quite a bit. Yes I know I made a blanket statement but everything has it's exceptions.

 

So you're implying that my child, who attends public school, is disrespectful? That's disrespectful.

 

Oh, by the way, the neuter singular possessive pronoun is "its," not "it's." "It's" is a contraction for "it is." I learned that in public school, thank you very much. In what kind of school did you fail to learn it?

 

(Yes, "spelling flames" are usually lame, but thanks to you, we're talking about the relative value of different kinds of education. Everything has its exceptions! :D )

 

:):):D

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First thanks to TheAlabamaRambler for that awesome NASCAR post, which I read with great interest. Way too long to quote though. :)

 

Becoming a popular fad is not the worst thing that could happen to geocaching. It'll go through a CB Radio adjustment and leave better cachers in the ranks when the fad fades.

 

Ah, the CB radio analogy. I hadn't heard it in so long, I practically forgot about it. It's a good one, but I imagine you can poke holes in it like any analogy. Allrighty then, I'll just sit back, and wait for the herd to thin itself. :)

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I think it's a bad idea to over promote this activity and an even worst idea to take it into the schools. Kids today are disrespectful at best.

 

As a homeschooler, I disagree. Gecocaching is part of our curriculum and my three kids (8,7, and 5) have a blast. They are also very respectable of the caches. I think the key is to start education at an early age. And not to forget the all important lesson of respect with whatever is taught. But no matter how much respect is "spoken of", it is better learned through example. That's what falls on us as adults to do.

 

The part in bold changes your situation quite a bit. Yes I know I made a blanket statement but everything has it's exceptions.

 

So you're implying that my child, who attends public school, is disrespectful? That's disrespectful.

 

Oh, by the way, the neuter singular possessive pronoun is "its," not "it's." "It's" is a contraction for "it is." I learned that in public school, thank you very much. In what kind of school did you fail to learn it?

 

(Yes, "spelling flames" are usually lame, but thanks to you, we're talking about the relative value of different kinds of education. Everything has its exceptions! :) )

 

I'm sorry, which one of us are you talking to? I'm the one who said I was a homeschooler, yet made no mention of anyone being disrespectful, homeschooling or not. There are three different people being quoted above, besides you.....are you aware of that?

 

Personally, the only children I believe are disrespectful, are the one's being disrespectful. Which, even my homeschooled kids can be at times. If you read my later post, I made mention to the fact that even homeschooled children have their moments. There are differences between homeschooled kids and publically schooled kids, but I never brought any of those points up in my post, so I certainly hope your remarks weren't directed towards me. This isn't a site for a debate on schooling options for your children.

 

And as far as the whole "it's" vs. "its" issue, I never used the contraction in my post. The contraction was misused by another member who didn't say that they homeschooled, so the faux pas is on you, dear sir.

 

No faux pas on my part at all, dear sir. It is quite clear to whom I am talking -- to CSpenceFLY, whose post immediately preceded mine, and who used the supernumerary apostrophe -- not to you. Regardless of how many other posts preceded yours or mine, my reply is to the immediately-preceding one. If you are going to use Internet forums, then please learn how to use Internet forums, and please teach your captive student audience how to do so, you dear faux-pas'ing sir.

 

But now that you have mistakenly accused me of having responded to you, when in fact I was responding to the person who responded to you, I do wonder whether you will teach your students to analyze arguments better than you have done yourself. Saint Thomas Aquinas, whose style of argument I recommend to all schoolers, home- or otherwise, could help you and your students understand the back-and-forth a little better, perhaps. He wouldn't have made your mistake.

 

I also wonder whether you will teach your students that the plural of "one" is not "one's," as you seem to think it is, but rather, "ones." There is a word spelled "one's," but it doesn't belong in your sentence.

 

I learned a lot of stuff from wonderfully talented teachers in our public schools. I learned a lot of other stuff from my parents. Thank God my parents didn't restrict me to only one of those sources, as....er....some peaple'z :) do to their children.

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Similarly, I'm much less worried about the potentially undercommitted illegal residents of the USA who might join our society than with the scary, obsessive, loudmouthed xenophobes, gun nuts, and other extremist politicians we already have in the ranks, who pervert every issue in American soceity into a rant about their wacko politics.

 

In both cases, in my opinion, the newcomers are much more likely to work hard and contribute to the sport, or to the society, than to be "selfish and materialistic people" like some chronologically grown-up but tantrum-throwing nativist extremists who have the random "advantage" of having come through the doors a few years earlier than somebody else.

 

How about if we get back to the fun of finding canisters in the woods (and parking lots) instead of spitting on people who happen to speak languages some among us are too lazy and selfish to learn?

 

Now i'm xenophobic and a gun nut! :):)

 

I actually speak fluent Spanish, but you a**umed everything about me without knowing anything. My perspective on illegals is partially based on my 10 years of service working and supervising Immigration and Customs Enforcement detainees (illegals and green card owners who have committed crimes) in a jail setting. My perspective is based on first hand experience, not "which ever way the wind blows" liberal politics. I always find it comical of those that bash on the 2nd ammendment always hide behind the 1st ammendment. If it wasn't for the 2nd ammendment, you wouldn't have a voice.

 

 

Back on Topic

 

The best way to promote these sport is by inviting like minded individuals outdoors, and get them exited about nature, conservation, and geocaching. Blanket promotion is never good IMNHO.

Edited by Kit Fox
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I think it's a bad idea to over promote this activity and an even worst idea to take it into the schools. Kids today are disrespectful at best.

 

As a homeschooler, I disagree. Gecocaching is part of our curriculum and my three kids (8,7, and 5) have a blast. They are also very respectable of the caches. I think the key is to start education at an early age. And not to forget the all important lesson of respect with whatever is taught. But no matter how much respect is "spoken of", it is better learned through example. That's what falls on us as adults to do.

 

The part in bold changes your situation quite a bit. Yes I know I made a blanket statement but everything has it's exceptions.

 

So you're implying that my child, who attends public school, is disrespectful? That's disrespectful.

 

Oh, by the way, the neuter singular possessive pronoun is "its," not "it's." "It's" is a contraction for "it is." I learned that in public school, thank you very much. In what kind of school did you fail to learn it?

 

(Yes, "spelling flames" are usually lame, but thanks to you, we're talking about the relative value of different kinds of education. Everything has its exceptions! :) )

 

Your right guys. Not worth saying.

Edited by CSpenceFLY
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Certainly, I'm not the only one who, upon reading the OP, was reminded of StarBrand's related thread from a few days ago. I think that StarBrand gave a perfect example of why it is a bad idea for schools (and other organizations, including scouts) to promote using actual live caches placed by other geocachers.

 

The fact is, if you take 25 relative strangers to a geocache, a few of them will think about muggling it in one way or another. I think that it's important to mention that this issue, and StarBrand's experiences, are not a condemnation on the state of children in America. It's been a hundred years since I was in grade school, but I'm sure that a few of my classmates would consider trashing a cache.

 

I hope that it’s OK that I stuck in an on-topic post now that the thread is devolded into discussions on Nascar, urban micros, ratings systems, homeschooling v public schools v private schools, immigration issues, liberals, gun nuts and whether some of us are or are not bad parents who raise hellions.

Edited by sbell111
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I think it is a legtimate point that as geocaching becomes more popular, the adverse impacts of the sport may increase, with the potential for a backlash. I.e., one person a week looking for a cache in a park might cause minimal damage; whereas 20 would, which could cause all caches to be banned.

 

Also, by widely publicizing the sport or introducing it in schools, one increases the likelihood that the wrong type of people will become involved (i.e., trouble makers out for mischief and people who just don't give a damm about the consequences of their actions). The bad apples can spoil things for everyone.

 

I think the current "system" seems to work fine; inquisitive people who would genuinely enjoy and respect the sport will find out about it; but I don't like the idea of it becoming widely publicized or part of a scouting or school program.

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I think it is a legtimate point that as geocaching becomes more popular, the adverse impacts of the sport may increase, with the potential for a backlash. I.e., one person a week looking for a cache in a park might cause minimal damage; whereas 20 would, which could cause all caches to be banned.

 

Also, by widely publicizing the sport or introducing it in schools, one increases the likelihood that the wrong type of people will become involved (i.e., trouble makers out for mischief and people who just don't give a damm about the consequences of their actions). The bad apples can spoil things for everyone.

 

I think the current "system" seems to work fine; inquisitive people who would genuinely enjoy and respect the sport will find out about it; but I don't like the idea of it becoming widely publicized or part of a scouting or school program.

 

Certainly a wider audience introduces not only diversity and growth but the potential for mischief as well.

 

Not to drag up a sensitive topic that's been beat to death, but this is an apt analogy that I am reminded of whenever this subject comes up...

 

I was driving through a small town a couple of years ago, less than ten thousand population, and came to a T-intersection. In front of me was a billboard with left and right-pointing arrows, giving the way to SEVENTEEN churches! Now I am quite sure that this town started with one church, then folks who couldn't quite agree started another, then folks who thought these two were doing it wrong started another... and now you have seventeen churches, all believing essentially the same thing, who all believe the others are heathens, and so on.

 

That first church probably had a vast majority of well-behaved members, however now if you look at the combined congregations of all seventeen together you'll likely find quite a number in or on the way to the hoosegow.

 

It's simple, open your ranks to anyone and you will attract... anyone! Some will be nice folks, some will be blazing zealots, one may come and burn your church down in the dark of night... but you don't close the doors and create by-invitation-only churches, or accept only those who happened to hear about your church.

 

Otay, I used the nature of people in churches as an analogy to people in geocaching; please let's not take that off on another religious rant and stick with the analogy (more people = more good but also more bad) itself!

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Leo Geo:

 

Not going to enter your childish fight, and I'm NOT a sir. I find no reason to quibble about silly typos, and you will find that they rarely have any reflection on a person's grammatical skills. Nor, will I fight to defend my abilities to teach as my 8 year old who has tested at a high school level, and my 5 and 7 year old working 3 and 2 grade levels above their age respectively, is enough to win the argument. I never stated that you were accusing me, I asked if you were. The way you muddled everyone's responses into single response, made it look like that was just what you were doing. And as you can see from CSpenceFLY's response, he thinks you need to reread the post as well.

 

I'm sure you received a lovely public school education. I doubt, seriously that your teachers had a formal education in Bio-Chemical Engineering as well as working in the Nuclear Field in the Navy, as my children do. I also doubt that you had the advantage of a 1:3 teacher to student ratio.

 

When you have to resort to nit-picking the grammar of a member's post to try to win your argument, you are left looking like the uneducated individual. I hope you can learn to set aside whatever ill feelings you have towards homeschoolers as they do not belong in this discussion and we can all get back on topic.

Edited by elmuyloco5
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...It's simple, open your ranks to anyone and you will attract... anyone! Some will be nice folks, some will be blazing zealots, one may come and burn your church down in the dark of night... but you don't close the doors and create by-invitation-only churches, or accept only those who happened to hear about your church.

 

Otay, I used the nature of people in churches as an analogy to people in geocaching; please let's not take that off on another religious rant and stick with the analogy (more people = more good but also more bad) itself!

I'm not in love with the church analogy. Here's why.

 

The thing is, the members of a church generally have similar belief systems. Therefore, if you took a church group on an outing, you would be more likely to have similar reactions. This is unlike a school outing that takes children that do not necessarily have similar belief systems and will react in unique ways.

 

I also wonder about the openness of churches. While it's true that most churches allow anyone to pop in and try them out, people invite those people to their church who have similar belief systems as they do. This (and church teachings) results in a more homogenous group than the general population (and the population of most schools).

 

Since a school class is not filled with children who will all act predictably, it's best to not reveal 'live' caches to them. If 'live' caches must be used, perhaps asking the cache owner if it is OK would be appropriate.

... I hope you can learn to set aside whatever ill feelings you have towards homeschoolers as they do not belong in this discussion and we can all get back on topic.
The best way to return to a topic is to stop making off-topic posts. Edited by sbell111
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I think it's a bad idea to over promote this activity and an even worst idea to take it into the schools. Kids today are disrespectful at best.

 

As a homeschooler, I disagree. Gecocaching is part of our curriculum and my three kids (8,7, and 5) have a blast. They are also very respectable of the caches. I think the key is to start education at an early age. And not to forget the all important lesson of respect with whatever is taught. But no matter how much respect is "spoken of", it is better learned through example. That's what falls on us as adults to do.

 

The part in bold changes your situation quite a bit. Yes I know I made a blanket statement but everything has it's exceptions.

 

So you're implying that my child, who attends public school, is disrespectful?...

 

In a class of 30, it only takes one moronic child to go and steal the caches. Given that it happens, YES YOUR FREAKING CHILD COULD BE THE ONE. Or they could be the 29 exceptions.

 

Reality is what it is. Someone is the parent of that kid who's going to go jack the cache.

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I think it's a bad idea to over promote this activity and an even worst idea to take it into the schools. Kids today are disrespectful at best.

 

I agree. Introduce those who are interested. Maybe even an open house event were those interested can come. But I don't like the idea of general introductions to general people many of whom won't be interested, and some of whom will go on to get some kicks by finding a new venue to cause trouble.

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I think it's a bad idea to over promote this activity and an even worst idea to take it into the schools. Kids today are disrespectful at best.

 

As a homeschooler, I disagree. Gecocaching is part of our curriculum and my three kids (8,7, and 5) have a blast. ...

 

But you know the interest level of your audience. I would glady introduce any one kid to caching who was interested. However I would not more show 30 generic homeschooled kids and expect a different result than I would from 30 public school kids or 30 scouts.

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So if I leave the admittedly flawed analogy out and simply state its essence, "more people = more good but also more bad" would you buy that?

 

If so, is that a legitimate argument for keeping things quiet so that we don't attract the few who will impact the game negatively?

 

I don't think so.

 

The argument is to attract the more good part and do your best to leave out the more bad part. We should all agree on that. The hard part is how to accomplish the goal.

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So if I leave the admittedly flawed analogy out and simply state its essence, "more people = more good but also more bad" would you buy that?

 

If so, is that a legitimate argument for keeping things quiet so that we don't attract the few who will impact the game negatively?

 

I don't think so.

RK answered your post better than I could with this comment:
... Introduce those who are interested. Maybe even an open house event were those interested can come. But I don't like the idea of general introductions to general people many of whom won't be interested, and some of whom will go on to get some kicks by finding a new venue to cause trouble.
I have no problem with more people being introduced to the game. However, I'm not a fan of showing entire classes of children actual 'live' caches any more than I am a fan of those people who make no attempts to conceal their activities from random non-players.

 

If you do no prescreening, you put the game piece at higher risk of mugglage.

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I was going to post an ice cream analogy :D . But this thread seems to be about NASCAR, illegal immigration, home schooling, and grammar; so I'm staying out of it.
So the lesson learned is if you home school an illegal alien and teach him grammar then he can someday be a NASCAR driver? NASCAR mechanic? Anyhow, they lost me.... :D:D
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I'm happy to introduce the game to those who might be interested, but I'm not sure I understand the need to so actively spread the word to the world at large. Booths, floats? Seems a bit much to me.

 

I agree. Introduce those who are interested. Maybe even an open house event were those interested can come. But I don't like the idea of general introductions to general people many of whom won't be interested, and some of whom will go on to get some kicks by finding a new venue to cause trouble.

 

I think Renegade Knight's post above covers my feelings pretty well.

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I'm happy to introduce the game to those who might be interested, but I'm not sure I understand the need to so actively spread the word to the world at large. Booths, floats? Seems a bit much to me.

 

I agree. Introduce those who are interested. Maybe even an open house event were those interested can come. But I don't like the idea of general introductions to general people many of whom won't be interested, and some of whom will go on to get some kicks by finding a new venue to cause trouble.

 

I think Renegade Knight's post above covers my feelings pretty well.

 

So does this mean you have a problem with when newspapers or television news groups do a show/article on Geocaching and mention the site? Certainly a much larger audience than one class...

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I'm happy to introduce the game to those who might be interested, but I'm not sure I understand the need to so actively spread the word to the world at large. Booths, floats? Seems a bit much to me.
I agree. Introduce those who are interested. Maybe even an open house event were those interested can come. But I don't like the idea of general introductions to general people many of whom won't be interested, and some of whom will go on to get some kicks by finding a new venue to cause trouble.
I think Renegade Knight's post above covers my feelings pretty well.
So does this mean you have a problem with when newspapers or television news groups do a show/article on Geocaching and mention the site? Certainly a much larger audience than one class...
The thing is, those articles and TV shows don't generally 'out' a specific cache. That being said, I learned of the site through a TV program, so there is probably some logic in enacting a media blackout.
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...So does this mean you have a problem with when newspapers or television news groups do a show/article on Geocaching and mention the site? Certainly a much larger audience than one class...

 

A larger audience, but also a different aucience. Kids would be led by the nose (so to speak) to the cache. Meanwhile the paper may get someone interested but they have to get up, look up the site, go out, find the cache. Plus the miscreants are less likely to read the paper. The risks go down, but they are not gone.

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I think it's a bad idea to over promote this activity and an even worst idea to take it into the schools. Kids today are disrespectful at best.

 

I agree. Introduce those who are interested. Maybe even an open house event were those interested can come. But I don't like the idea of general introductions to general people many of whom won't be interested, and some of whom will go on to get some kicks by finding a new venue to cause trouble.

I fully agree. Had some bad experience with school kids and some of my caches over the summer. All near places where a teacher introduced (forced) kids to Geocaching using my real caches.

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I think it's a bad idea to over promote this activity and an even worst idea to take it into the schools. Kids today are disrespectful at best.

 

I agree. Introduce those who are interested. Maybe even an open house event were those interested can come. But I don't like the idea of general introductions to general people many of whom won't be interested, and some of whom will go on to get some kicks by finding a new venue to cause trouble.

I fully agree. Had some bad experience with school kids and some of my caches over the summer. All near places where a teacher introduced (forced) kids to Geocaching using my real caches.

 

As a teacher, I have to routinely "force" my students to do certain things - chemistry labs, chemistry problems, watch chemistry videos. That doesn't make them bad simply because I had them do something I, in my professional capacity, felt was educational in some way.

 

As for TV vs live - they don't "out" a specific cache in many cases for the class trips. Sometimes they do. Many people in this discussion are saying leave Geocaching.com out of the discussion, and it is almost always mentioned in tv/news articles. We don't see droves of caches destroyed following it being mentioned there, and I don't think you see droves of them being destroyed after a class - maybe ones specifically pointed out, sometimes, but again, I think the risks of getting more people interested outweigh the risks of having an occasional cache muggled, which happens already anyway.

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...That doesn't make them bad simply because I had them do something I, in my professional capacity, felt was educational in some way..... I don't think you see droves of them being destroyed after a class - maybe ones specifically pointed out,...

 

The bad ones area already that way. That you force them to study chemistry doesn't change that, though it may actually help some in the long run.

As for caches, you said your self exactly what happens.

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...That doesn't make them bad simply because I had them do something I, in my professional capacity, felt was educational in some way..... I don't think you see droves of them being destroyed after a class - maybe ones specifically pointed out,...

 

The bad ones area already that way. That you force them to study chemistry doesn't change that, though it may actually help some in the long run.

As for caches, you said your self exactly what happens.

 

I would suggest that if someone wants to use geocaching as an education tool, that they place dedicated caches for that purpose outside of GC. IMHO, to point out someone else's cache to class and have to destroyed as a result is a serious disservice to the cache owner.

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I think it's a bad idea to over promote this activity and an even worst idea to take it into the schools. Kids today are disrespectful at best.

 

I agree. Introduce those who are interested. Maybe even an open house event were those interested can come. But I don't like the idea of general introductions to general people many of whom won't be interested, and some of whom will go on to get some kicks by finding a new venue to cause trouble.

I fully agree. Had some bad experience with school kids and some of my caches over the summer. All near places where a teacher introduced (forced) kids to Geocaching using my real caches.

 

As a teacher, I have to routinely "force" my students to do certain things - chemistry labs, chemistry problems, watch chemistry videos. That doesn't make them bad simply because I had them do something I, in my professional capacity, felt was educational in some way.

 

As for TV vs live - they don't "out" a specific cache in many cases for the class trips. Sometimes they do. Many people in this discussion are saying leave Geocaching.com out of the discussion, and it is almost always mentioned in tv/news articles. We don't see droves of caches destroyed following it being mentioned there, and I don't think you see droves of them being destroyed after a class - maybe ones specifically pointed out, sometimes, but again, I think the risks of getting more people interested outweigh the risks of having an occasional cache muggled, which happens already anyway.

 

You just made a point against your own opinion.

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As a teacher, I have to routinely "force" my students to do certain things - chemistry labs, chemistry problems, watch chemistry videos. That doesn't make them bad simply because I had them do something I, in my professional capacity, felt was educational in some way.

To make your analogy comparable with the geocaching scenario, what do you think would happen, after "forcing" your students to do a lab experiment, one perhaps that involved, oh, say FIRE, if after school they had unlimited access to the chemistry lab- unsupervised?

 

I'll spell it out for you: KABOOM!

 

You see, the problem with the caching class is not the introduction of random kids to the sport, or even telling them where to go on the net, but the problem occurs in turning them loose with unsupervised access to the caches they have visited.

 

I think we have heard from many here that agree (many from personal experience) that this is a good way to get caches trashed.

 

Besides using special class caches, doing the introduction on a field trip 100 miles from the school might also be acceptable.

 

The whole idea is not to let them have unsupervised access after the class. You wouldn't do it with your chemistry lab, don't do it with someone else's cache.

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As a teacher, I have to routinely "force" my students to do certain things - chemistry labs, chemistry problems, watch chemistry videos. That doesn't make them bad simply because I had them do something I, in my professional capacity, felt was educational in some way.

To make your analogy comparable with the geocaching scenario, what do you think would happen, after "forcing" your students to do a lab experiment, one perhaps that involved, oh, say FIRE, if after school they had unlimited access to the chemistry lab- unsupervised?

 

I'll spell it out for you: KABOOM!

 

You see, the problem with the caching class is not the introduction of random kids to the sport, or even telling them where to go on the net, but the problem occurs in turning them loose with unsupervised access to the caches they have visited.

 

I think we have heard from many here that agree (many from personal experience) that this is a good way to get caches trashed.

 

Besides using special class caches, doing the introduction on a field trip 100 miles from the school might also be acceptable.

 

The whole idea is not to let them have unsupervised access after the class. You wouldn't do it with your chemistry lab, don't do it with someone else's cache.

 

However, the materials to do much of what they could do in a destructive manner are clearly and easily available to them outside of the classroom. They don't need access to the chemistry lab to play with fire or dangerous chemicals. And they can use some of the things they learn in the class to go out and be destructive if they want - how many kids go out and explode butane lighters before or after they have chemistry class!?!

 

I wouldn't do it with my chemsitry lab. But I don't control what they have access to outside the school, which, in many cases, is much more dangerous than what they have access to in school. This doesn't change what we teach, or that we teach responsibility with our educational material as well.

 

What you guys are saying is we need to protect our caches from the public. We need to keep from introducing people to the game/sport, because we don't want our prescious caches muggled. We need to keep it to a select few who only follow the rules - oh wait, the people that play don't always do that anyway. My caches have gotten muggled... or lost, or stolen... and I've simply gone out and replaced them - that's the nature of the game.

 

I didn't argue against my point. I clearly stated that maybe we shouldn't take them to a specific cache that is a real one. But I did state I have no problem showing them the site or explaining the game to them. I also clearly stated that I do not feel that there would be any greater ratio of schmucks if we get more people than if we don't get more people - it should stay about the same.

 

More players = more schmucks, but more players = more caches. More caches get schmucked, but more caches are out there as well. This balances out in the end.

 

And most likely, the LPC's are the ones that will get schmucked. Well hidden, or hard to get to caches will probably be safe, as most teens are unwilling to go through the effort to get to them if they're just planning to destroy them.

 

It sounds like more of you need to spend some time working with kids. You don't seem to understand a whole lot about how their thought processes work. Most responses seem to indicate that if we point them out, the kids will go out and destroy them. This says a lot for what you think the next generation is going to do to our world. I don't believe this. There are just as many schmucky adults out there as there kids - and the adults are more damaging, because they have the resources to be.

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Stop urban micros.

 

Never quite understood why people have such a hatred for one type of cache or another. They are all good to me. If you don't like urban micros, fine. Don't look for them. I equally love tromping through the woods to find a regular cache or being able to grab a few urban micro caches while running errends or visiting a new city. Better yet are urban regular caches that are hidden in a clever way. Find the caches you want. It's all good.

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Stop urban micros.

 

Never quite understood why people have such a hatred for one type of cache or another. They are all good to me. If you don't like urban micros, fine. Don't look for them. I equally love tromping through the woods to find a regular cache or being able to grab a few urban micro caches while running errends or visiting a new city. Better yet are urban regular caches that are hidden in a clever way. Find the caches you want. It's all good.

 

Yup - and this even supports my argument (although not in a good way) - if you don't like lame urban micros, those are the kind likely to get muggled, overall increasing the level of caches available when new ones are put out by all of the new people!

 

I don't particularly like that argument. And I do like all cache types. But it does support my point.

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It sounds like more of you need to spend some time working with kids. You don't seem to understand a whole lot about how their thought processes work. Most responses seem to indicate that if we point them out, the kids will go out and destroy them. This says a lot for what you think the next generation is going to do to our world. I don't believe this. There are just as many schmucky adults out there as there kids - and the adults are more damaging, because they have the resources to be.

The difference between the adult "scmucks" and the kid "schmuks" as you describe them is that the adults probably realize they are being schmucks, while the kids muggle caches (or cause them to get muggled) inadvertently because they are merely passing on their new found knowledge to their friends.

 

It is not in any way about "what you think the next generation is going to do to our world." It is simply about immaturity (a common characteristic of kids that even those of us who enjoy working with and teaching kids generally do not disagree on - I hope), carelessness (failing to think things through before acting), and spontaneity.

 

When kids learn something new, they have an overwhelming desire to pass the knowledge on. Part of this is "look at me" but part of it is also the sheer JOY of learning something new. This is a great characteristic- it is a shame we lose much of that joy as adults.

 

The desire to pass on one's knowledge only becomes a problem when the knowledge is not passed on correctly, for example when certain critical aspects are left out, like the cacher's duty to keep the cache secret from non-players as you stated:

 

Another analogy: Just after your chemistry lecture on the characteristics of metals one of your students excitedly passes on to his younger brother the information that sodium is a metal and has a nice metallic lustre but leaves out the critical fact that it explodes in contact with water. Thank God the kid doesn't have a piece for "show and tell!"

 

What you guys are saying is we need to protect our caches from the public.

 

And you are absolutely correct! If this was not important, we would simply post a sign at each cache, right out in the open, at eye level, where everyone could see it, with big bold letters announcing "official geocache." (this might deter the bomb squad from blowing them up so often, too- except in places like Boston where they blow up their own highway department boxes) :o

 

Caches disappear for several reasons, many of which we cannot control. And as you well point out, it isn't the end of the world- you replace the cache and hope it stays - this time.

 

But one thing we can control is to whom we intentionally reveal the secret.

 

Any cacher that has been at it for any length of time has been "caught" with a cache and has had to explain the game to someone who may or may not respect the secret. This cannot be helped. But as we go out to deliberately spread the word, we can be more selective.

 

You seem to agree with those who say "do not use 'live' caches for classroom introductions." If this is the case, the more kids you introduce the merrier. In any case I would think it only general courtesy to ASK the owner(s) of any '"live" caches you are going to reveal to a group.

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... Saint Thomas Aquinas, whose style of argument I recommend to all schoolers, home- or otherwise, could help you and your students understand the back-and-forth a little better, perhaps. He wouldn't have made your mistake....

 

I can't tell if you are using his style or not. Either way it's not working for you. Your points are lost in the fog of your writing style.

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...What you guys are saying is we need to protect our caches from the public. We need to keep from introducing people to the game/sport, because we don't want our prescious caches muggled....

What we are saying is choose the methods of introduction that work best for caching.

 

In specific taking a class full of high or middle schoolers to a cache is a sure way to make that cache go away. Not a good outcome. The solution there is to use caches set up for the course.

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