+Mule Ears Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 I was thinking the same thing. If you don't like logs like that then don't hide quick and easy caches. That is a very common log for numbers cachers and not just noobs. Yep, I tend to agree. On low-difficulty caches a lot of finders will post words to that effect to confirm that the rating still applies. What you don't want to see on an easy cache is a log going on and on about how tough it was--this may mean that some helpful cacher rehid it 'better' than you intended. Quote Link to comment
+PlantAKiss Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 I usually write a paragraph on my logs--short to long depending on the circumstances. My understanding about logging is to "write about your experience." I also understand that the logs are the owner's "reward" for the work they put into a hide. So I make an effort since the owner's made an effort. However, there isn't a whole lot to say for a LPC in a shopping center...and much more to say about a nice hike in the woods. My last find, a cache in the woods, I wrote about locking my keys in my car in the parking lot. I could have said "Nice hide" and left it at that but instead I told a short story about my key mishap. I found the cache while waiting to be rescued. Personally I hate seeing cut and pasted logs. I think its rude. However, I do think log quality should match cache quality. I also try to post photos which is one thing it seems not many people do. I also try to post photos for TBs. I know I'd like to see photos for any of my caches or TBs. I think about what I'd like to get from a cache or TB I owned, and then I try to do the same for others. Quote Link to comment
+WalruZ Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 What's missing here, and what's sad about it all, is that the online log you leave isn't necessarily for the cache owner. It's for you. Do you really want to go back over a year of caching that you've done and see just "tftc" - ? No - those online logs tell the story of your experiences with those caches, and the audience that is most likely to appreciate them most is you, a few years from now. Beyond that, good logs build community. It's how people caching in the same area get to know each other, for better or for worse. (literally - cache logs are how I first met my wife.) Quote Link to comment
+Ambrosia Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 What's missing here, and what's sad about it all, is that the online log you leave isn't necessarily for the cache owner. It's for you. Do you really want to go back over a year of caching that you've done and see just "tftc" - ? No - those online logs tell the story of your experiences with those caches, and the audience that is most likely to appreciate them most is you, a few years from now. Beyond that, good logs build community. It's how people caching in the same area get to know each other, for better or for worse. (literally - cache logs are how I first met my wife.) Exactly. Logs and pictures are an online journal. I can't count how many times I was able to remember crucial events or trips by looking up my past cache logs. Quote Link to comment
+Team LaLonde Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 What's missing here, and what's sad about it all, is that the online log you leave isn't necessarily for the cache owner. It's for you. Do you really want to go back over a year of caching that you've done and see just "tftc" - ? No - those online logs tell the story of your experiences with those caches, and the audience that is most likely to appreciate them most is you, a few years from now. Beyond that, good logs build community. It's how people caching in the same area get to know each other, for better or for worse. (literally - cache logs are how I first met my wife.) Exactly. Logs and pictures are an online journal. I can't count how many times I was able to remember crucial events or trips by looking up my past cache logs. I agree with this completely. Mrs. L has been keeping a notebook when we go caching on day trips or vacations. It's a lot like a photo album. She'll make notes about anything unusual, humorous, etc. and we write our online logs from this notebook. We keep the notebook in the Jeep and when a non-cacher gets in and thumbs through it they take an interest in caching. Sometimes we'll flip through it ourselves and talk about certain caches and experiences. If we wrote TNLNSL then we obviously missed the entire point of geocaching. Quote Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 What's missing here, and what's sad about it all, is that the online log you leave isn't necessarily for the cache owner. It's for you. Do you really want to go back over a year of caching that you've done and see just "tftc" - ? No - those online logs tell the story of your experiences with those caches, and the audience that is most likely to appreciate them most is you, a few years from now. Beyond that, good logs build community. It's how people caching in the same area get to know each other, for better or for worse. (literally - cache logs are how I first met my wife.) Great point. Quote Link to comment
markandlynn Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 What's missing here, and what's sad about it all, is that the online log you leave isn't necessarily for the cache owner. It's for you. Do you really want to go back over a year of caching that you've done and see just "tftc" - ? No - those online logs tell the story of your experiences with those caches, and the audience that is most likely to appreciate them most is you, a few years from now. Beyond that, good logs build community. It's how people caching in the same area get to know each other, for better or for worse. (literally - cache logs are how I first met my wife.) Exactly. Logs and pictures are an online journal. I can't count how many times I was able to remember crucial events or trips by looking up my past cache logs. Exactly we print out our logs and when people ask what did you do on holiday its easy to answer and show photos. We have come to the conclusion that you can only lead by example on this. It was great to recieve yet again a few emails thanking us for our descriptive logs and photos after our recent holiday. If just one cache owner or watcher thinks that log was great ill write more like that its all been worthwhile. For an example of someone who will never know anything about logging and where he has been have a look at this gallery all the logs are pretty generic. The usuall give away is when the first line says 2 of 15 for the day. All logs that start that way are always generic cut and paste's. Quote Link to comment
+yawetag Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 I beg to differ. Here, here, here, and here are all examples of logs from me -- all of them start with "# of # for the day; # total". Just because I have a stock beginning doesn't mean there's a stock ending. The usuall give away is when the first line says 2 of 15 for the day. All logs that start that way are always generic cut and paste's. Quote Link to comment
markandlynn Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 I beg to differ. Here, here, here, and here are all examples of logs from me -- all of them start with "# of # for the day; # total". Just because I have a stock beginning doesn't mean there's a stock ending. The usuall give away is when the first line says 2 of 15 for the day. All logs that start that way are always generic cut and paste's. USUAL round here not always but usually. You are 4000 miles away give or take as well Quote Link to comment
Chumpo Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 I often write a log just to entertain myself. I've done several that don't even have much at all to do with the cache. Quote Link to comment
+yawetag Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 (edited) They are usually the same around here as well. My apologies for not reading "usual" in your original reply. USUAL round here not always but usually. You are 4000 miles away give or take as well Edited to fix horrible quoting job. Edited September 14, 2007 by yawetag Quote Link to comment
+Tedster67 Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 As a newbie, this topic struck me as one of the main elements of geocaching that makes this activity unique from others. You combine so many different actions, such as - researching, mapping, internet, GPSr, hiking, biking, boating (etc), landnav, and journaling. That is why I've enjoyed this sport so far, you are not "doing" just one thing. Journaling (logs) is an important part of the whole (IMHO), of course if it's about the numbers for you then this point will not have much meaning. I enjoy the find at the end, but that's just a small portion of my journey to that cache. Journaling offers an outlet to share and express myself to the community of fellow geocachers. If I was looking at just getting as many finds as possible, then it's develops into an assembly line, factory-like atmosphere which can be had at work. The ability the escape from the everyday and write about (and post pictures) the experience.........slow things down from the daily grind. Several posters have said after several hundred (or thousand) finds, you get tired of writing longer logs. I hope that doesn't happen when I reach that point. Getting back to the original observation of the lack of quality logs, blame can be spread around. When I view logs, from my newbie perspective I "look up" to the more experienced cachers and what they write. The majority of logs (granted - limited amount seen) I've viewed are one sentence at the most. You see high total number of finds for the cacher and think "That must be the way it's done." Fortunately for myself, I tend to take a different path from the crowd and write the logs with detail and pictures. This satisfies my geocaching experience. You will always have the number cachers or people who don't want to be bothered. However, I believe the "silent majority" wants a quality experience and share that with the community. A willingness to improve the quality of the logs needs to start somewhere. A suggestion is the individuals who have been caching for some time and who have the experience of finding, hiding, and writing logs. The forums can be helpful for these leaders to bring up these topics and discuss. Another place is on the local level, developing classes or informal round table discussions on geocaching which could include ways of improving your logs. Incorporating these "classes" in events, keeping it fun but also educating the community on the finer points of our sport. Maybe establishing a more formal "certification" course(s) for individuals who want or have the time to do so. Courses / classes / discussions on various topics of geocaching including the Art of Writing a Log and at the end, the participates would receive a certificate, patch, or coin from the local chapter. Well, thanks for "listening" to my ramblings from a newbie. Take care everyone! Quote Link to comment
markandlynn Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 They are usually the same around here as well. My apologies for not reading "usual" in your original reply. USUAL round here not always but usually. You are 4000 miles away give or take as well Thats ok i generally hate generalising Keep up the decent logs Quote Link to comment
+Degai Posted September 15, 2007 Share Posted September 15, 2007 (edited) I agree with 9key, but I must say, I have only hidden one cache and for the most part, I get some pretty good logs. I even had the FTF who called me and thanked me for the cache. He told me he had thought about placing a cache there and he was sorry I beat him to it, but he congratulated me on my first cache and told me I had done a nice job. On the flip side, I try to write interesting logs and I try to include picture, too. I haven't found that many caches, and it sometimes takes me a while to log the find, but when I do I want to make it worth while for me and the owner. BTW, I don't consider myself a good writer, nor a creative writer-just a considerate one. Edited September 15, 2007 by Degai Quote Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted September 15, 2007 Share Posted September 15, 2007 Saturday, October 18, 2003 A total of 15 people joined in the search on a beautiful fall day. We definitely have a fantastic collection of dedicated and talented cachers in the area. I wish even more cachers could have joined us. A special thanks to Ernie K (a future geocacher) for providing the canoe. RooBoy and PaGruvy were first to start. After ten minutes or so we could see them giving us the universal - palms up, arms out-stretched - sign of "Heck, I don't know where the dumb thing is". The second try by two more cachers was also a bust. Rooboy then decided to take the land route. Apparently his shoe tread was too slick as he climbed down the cliff in his bare feet! After meeting Rooboy you wouldn't think he would turn out to be such a nut, but I guess looks are deceiving! Well, after searching and searching we still hadn't found the cache. We were beginning to think that either the cache had been plundered or we really stank at this sport. Cachers visiting the site before had been pretty sure they could see the container from shore, but it was no where to be found. We discussed whether we should leave a new cache container or log 6 or 7 shameful "Not Founds". But all was not lost. Welch started poking around the quarry and found the cache container located clear on the other side, sitting in water and mud. (Now I know why you should bring a senior cacher to the tough ones). Most of the contents were soaked and the logs were trashed. The last log was from a fisherman who had found the container, but I really do think he either found it in the mud and figured he should replace it in the same location or it was displaced after his find. The cache could have ended up in the water for several 'natural' reasons. Welch came through again by providing a new container, stocked with swag and a log book. Top quality stuff. Even the logbook has it's own container. We all signed the log and had a good time trading stories and Geocaching insights. The kids went through the swag an like an antique dealer looking for the perfect find. S10 then showed his daring by replacing the cache by also going over the top. (I still wouldn't be comfortable to make the climb). It really was a pleasure to meet everyone. Left three gold dollars, a match holder, a smiley coin purse and Thing 1. I'll be posting pictures once I clarify a few names. There should be another meet next spring for cachers who would like help to claim this one. Quote Link to comment
AKABZZ Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Some friends and I have just started geocaching...so we are new to this. I had never thought about how to sign log. We try to keep cache log short...KISS. We have done alot of micro/small caches lately that have been TNLNSL...and that is what we posted. We do try to put a lil bit of info in...great hunt, etc. Your post now has me thinking about the online logs...guess I will be doing a better job of posting. We go as a group (children and adults) and sometimes it is hard to remember all that happens in the hunt. I will try to do a better job of posting logs from this point forward. I totally understand what you are saying and will remember it. I'll Second That ! A "newbie" to geocaching too. I have thought about putting more in but, would anyone else find it interesting? Well, sounds like we will place a more creative online log. Around our parts, geocachers just sign the paper log. In your area is there a lot of script in the cache??? Quote Link to comment
+MakoKidd Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Being new to the sport always leaves me with more questions than answers pertaining to a number of subjects which is why I am so glad this this forum topic has managed to stay close to the "sticky" top of the list of topics. Some of my questions get answered here in the forums, while others remain a mystery to me only to be uncovered as my experience grows. I have thought of the log as being a way to reciprocate for imaginative hides. Boring micros might be best served with boring terse log entries. But the more I read on the lost art of logging, the more I realize that the log is a feedback mechanism for the owner as well as a means to an end for those about to find. My fear is that if I get too wordy, I may be publishing unintentional spoilers and perhaps take away from the challenge. On the other hand, if it weren't for some of these spoiler entries on some of the caches that I've searched for, I may not have found them myself. I walk the line in search of a happy medium. I will only improve as my journey continues. I hope to be one of the more prolific loggers in my area and who knows, maybe some day I will become a cacher of substance. Practice makes perfect, and I never intend to become a "cache by numbers" type. TFTFT = Thanks for The Forum Topic SL Quote Link to comment
+9Key Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 Just wanted to give this topic a bump. It been one of the most angst free topics on the board in a while and seems to have helped several new cachers. Quote Link to comment
+mustang67ford Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Ok, I am somewhat new to geocaching and never knew logs were this important. Mine are somewhat short and to the point because of having to enter logs twice. Once at the cache and once online. Seems redundant. Is there one that is more important than the other or should both logs be treated equally. I mean, whoever reads the online log will see the same thing (almost) in the cache log so why have both? Maybe I can get some responses to this to get others opinions. Thanks Quote Link to comment
CoyoteRed Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 What's missing here, and what's sad about it all, is that the online log you leave isn't necessarily for the cache owner....it's for the whole community. However... It's for you. Do you really want to go back over a year of caching that you've done and see just "tftc" - ? No - those online logs tell the story of your experiences with those caches, and the audience that is most likely to appreciate them most is you, a few years from now. We use our journal for our true feeling and experiences much of which we don't want to make public for one reason or the other. Spoilers is just one reason. These can be the final or solutions to a puzzle. Stuff that doesn't belong in an online log. I've long thought there should be three different fields in the logs. The public log, the private log, and the personal log. Public is for everyone. Private is for you and the owner. Personal is for you only. Then you should be able to display several of your logs on a page in chronological order so it reads as a whole, not fractions of a day. I generally don't do the logging and when I do it's hard for me to get into a story, but I try. Quote Link to comment
+yawetag Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 This is veering a little off topic, but I agree with this. There's no way for a cacher to leave information on caches on the website, so a "personal" field would be great. You can leave notes you want about the cache (final solutions, your thoughts on it, anything you want) that only you can see. I've long thought there should be three different fields in the logs. The public log, the private log, and the personal log. Public is for everyone. Private is for you and the owner. Personal is for you only. Then you should be able to display several of your logs on a page in chronological order so it reads as a whole, not fractions of a day. I generally don't do the logging and when I do it's hard for me to get into a story, but I try. Quote Link to comment
+Kit Fox Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Ok, I am somewhat new to geocaching and never knew logs were this important. Mine are somewhat short and to the point because of having to enter logs twice. Once at the cache and once online. Seems redundant. Is there one that is more important than the other or should both logs be treated equally. I mean, whoever reads the online log will see the same thing (almost) in the cache log so why have both? Maybe I can get some responses to this to get others opinions. Thanks I'm one of those cachers who writes short logs in the logbook, but will write nice logs on the cache page, complete with scenic pictures. I know of and have seen a few logbook "finds" where the cacher wrote nice long stories. My typing is far neater than my handwriting. Quote Link to comment
+campy877 Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 CYBret, Thank you for your article. I stumbled across it a week ago and realized that I was cheating the game. I love writing about the hunt and the find but as I am new to the whole sport, just followed along with the short notes in the logs because I saw everyone else with 3000+ caches to their name doing and just assumed that the proper ettiquette was "keep it short and to the point". Your article helped me realize that there should be a lot more to recording the find than collecting smileys! In my opinion, having only been doing this for about a month, most newbies are introduced to this by friends who show them how to do the actual search but then don't really tell them how to log. To me, I agree with you. I enjoy reliving the hunt with others and in fact, find myself reading those longer logs as they give me more flavor on the actual cache before I ever head out. I really enjoy seeing if the picture that detailed loggers have painted in my mind is really how the hunt plays out for me. It also helps me paint the picture for my kids and gets them psyched for the hunts when they go with me. Thanks gain for the "4T's" of logging. It should be required reading for all new cahce hunters out there. Quote Link to comment
+CYBret Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Awww, thank YOU. I'm humbled....and very glad you found the article helpful. I find myself often checking my recently logged caches for new finds. I go back and read the logs and, when one is really well written, it just seems to bring a sense of camaraderie to what we do. Sometimes I find myself going back and re-reading my logs and sort of re-living the experiences. That happens a lot on miserable winter nights. I go back to those warm summer logs...sometimes I even miss the ticks. I know writing isn't everyone's cup of tea, but I'm very glad when I see someone put a little effort into bringing the experience to life for the rest of us. Oh and, TFTC (thanks for the comments) Quote Link to comment
+Hose502 Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 (edited) I totally agree with WalruZ's post: they should be for you, and primarily for you. And I totally agree with CoyoteRed's post that you should be able to have separate logs, but, unfortunately, that would probably be too complicated in actual usage. Now, in my opinion, you should write what you want to write. I don't understand the point that hiding a good cache entitles you to having cachers write "good" logs as a "reward" for placing the cache. If you place a cache, it should be because you want to. It should be because you want to provide a resource to the sport for others to enjoy. If you place it, they will find it. Someone who writes "TFTC" could love the experience of the find just as much as someone who writes a small novel. If you place a cache in the most perfect location in the entire world, someone writes "TFTC", and you feel cheated, then why did you place it? Was it because you wanted to share something with other cachers, or was it because you wanted everyone to tell you how great your cache is? If it is a great hide, it is because it is, not because every single log entry show that. And many caches have many purposes as well. Caches don't always have to be in the most perfect place in the world. Even LPCs, which many people are vocal about not liking, can be great or have important utility to them. Also, length of log entries does not dictate the quality of the cache. That is subjective anyway. There are some I like, some I dislike. For other cachers, it could be the opposite set of caches. It is possible to visit a cache that you dislike, but events leading up to it provide a great story that results in a long log entry. It is also possible to visit a great cache, and while great, might not give much to say. And sometimes, you could be in the mood to write a lot and sometimes not. You should never feel obligated to stuff a log entry with words to give an "optimal word count" to show your approval. Say what you want to say, that's it. By the way, TFTC = Thanks for the cache. A lot of times, in the real world, a simple thank you is enough. Some people are going to like to write logs as a record for themselves, to reread later to relive the moments, to provide entertainment to others. Some people are going to love the hunt but don't feel the need to record it in detail. The former shouldn't be more "right" and the latter more "wrong". We should all be here to have fun, not to win a popularity contest based on log entries. Edited October 5, 2007 by Hose502 Quote Link to comment
+nittany dave Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 I enjoy reading well written logs, but I don't expect it from everyone. Some people are better at writing about their experiences than others. I'm usually in the 'others' category unless something particularly interesting or funny happened to me while at the cache location. For camaraderie, I cache, chat and trade emails with friends or attend events. For literature I visit the local library or bookstore. Quote Link to comment
+PTppl Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 I'm one of those cachers who writes short logs in the logbook, but will write nice logs on the cache page, complete with scenic pictures. I know of and have seen a few logbook "finds" where the cacher wrote nice long stories. My typing is far neater than my handwriting. Same here . Being fairly new to caching (we've found a whopping 11! ), I thought the physical log was more for proof of find, so we're in and out so as not to expose the cache longer than necessary. Then, I take more time on details for the cache page. Quote Link to comment
+chowmom Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 CYBret, Thank you for your article. I stumbled across it a week ago and realized that I was cheating the game. I love writing about the hunt and the find but as I am new to the whole sport, just followed along with the short notes in the logs because I saw everyone else with 3000+ caches to their name doing and just assumed that the proper ettiquette was "keep it short and to the point". Your article helped me realize that there should be a lot more to recording the find than collecting smileys! In my opinion, having only been doing this for about a month, most newbies are introduced to this by friends who show them how to do the actual search but then don't really tell them how to log. To me, I agree with you. I enjoy reliving the hunt with others and in fact, find myself reading those longer logs as they give me more flavor on the actual cache before I ever head out. I really enjoy seeing if the picture that detailed loggers have painted in my mind is really how the hunt plays out for me. It also helps me paint the picture for my kids and gets them psyched for the hunts when they go with me. Thanks gain for the "4T's" of logging. It should be required reading for all new cahce hunters out there. Quote Link to comment
CoyoteRed Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 And I totally agree with CoyoteRed's post that you should be able to have separate logs, but, unfortunately, that would probably be too complicated in actual usage. I agree with your post. On the portion I quoted, I do think if not implemented very carefully then problems could certainly arise. Probably most notably would be the time that someone put their honest and less-than-flattering comments in the section that becomes public by mistake. Press send and the owner, along with everyone watching the cache, gets a copy before the mistake can be corrected. Quote Link to comment
+ShadowAce Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Not everyone is Lazy. Some of us take pride in our logs still: Average log size: 76.3 words - Biggest log: 801 words One of my favorite parts of hiding caches is (or was) receiving emailed logs from the cachers that have found or not found my caches. My enjoyment of this part of the game has diminished over the last couple of years due to the increasingly poor logging practices of my fellow cachers. Yes, I know, an LPC doesn't deserve a 100 word log and that's not what I'm talking about (I don't hide those anyway). What I'm ranting about today is the poor quality of online logs on quality caches. "TNLNSL - TFTC" isn't an acceptable log on a cache that's on many people's favorites list. Many newbies seem to start off logging with the dreaded acronyms and never get away from it unfortunately. I've asked some cachers that write turd logs why they do it and for the most part they say "I can't think of anything to write", or "I'm not creative". I'm not looking for a witty, creative, Kurt Vonnegut-type log, just something descriptive of your time hunting the cache. Its really not hard and only takes a few seconds longer than the "TNLNSL - TFTC" carp. Here's a short list of things you can comment on if you can't think of anything to write in an online log: * what was the weather like? * see any animals, pretty flowers, nudists, etc? * condition of the cache? * logbook full? * condition of swag? * easy to find? tough? * coordinate accuracy - good or bad? * accuracy of terrain and difficulty ratings * travel bug inventory * history of the area * memories of previous caches in the area * comment on the state of the cache's camo, or lack there of * did you like the cache? * any park weirdos? * talk to any muggles or LEO's? I could go on and on! Don't get me started on put-and-paste logs... Quote Link to comment
+harmgsn Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 I'm going to catch some heat for my opinion here. Lame or abbreviated logs are only appropriate for caches that are so crappy that you can't think of anything nice to say. (Personal Opinion) The cancerous spread of short logs is a direct result of the "new numbers game." Cachers are too busy trying to log all 50 to 100 finds for the day, rather than taking the time to write nice logs. These cachers have more finds than they have good experiences, and their attention span is too short to remember details of their hunt. This same type of cacher is really good at "copying and pasting" their lame "found it" log. I know of some cachers that actually create ALR caches so they can require cachers to write a creative logs. Several cachers here on the forum got roasted when they expressed a desire to delete "copy and paste" logs on really nice caches. This is true in some cases. A friend and I are fairly new to the caching stuff, but we've been hitting on average anywhere from 6 to 20 caches in a given day. Most of them are plain vanilla finds that don't take much effort. If the cache was worthwhile (ie: extremely clever hiding spot, or has something neat near it) then we make note of it in our log book that we carry with us to use on the web log later on. I wouldn't say it's being lazy, but it's more of a lack of anything worthwhile to say. The caches that are creative and fun are the ones that get my good comments, otherwise I will use a canned response and copy/paste it. Hiding a log in a tree or whatever is just plain boring. One cacher in this area (going to remain nameless so I don't spoil anything) creatively hid the cache *IN* a wooden fence post. It was a rural fence post, so it's basically the branch of a tree. Only he hollowed the branch out some and lopped off the end to "contain" the cache. It was an awesome cache that really surprised me. It definitely got a good comment and massive kudos from me. Yes, you are right that lame caches deserve lame logs. Be creative in hiding them. Make it a challenge. I'll also mention that the caches where the GPS is spot-on and you don't have to do any kind of guess work or hunting is quite boring. I'm not saying make it super difficult, but at least be creative in the description. A good example is WeisFamily. Go look at some of their caches... they're in remote places and actually have a story attached to them. Granted, I gave lame logs on those, but after finding 18 in a single day, you're really too tired and just want to get them all entered into the system as fast as possible so you can shower and go to sleep. Anyways, enough rambling from me. Carry on. Quote Link to comment
+WalruZ Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Same here smile.gif. Being fairly new to caching (we've found a whopping 11! laughing.gif), I thought the physical log was more for proof of find, so we're in and out so as not to expose the cache longer than necessary. Then, I take more time on details for the cache page. I almost always only ever sign my name to the paper log and leave more of an online log. Realistically, paper logs are going to end up muggled, missing, burned, soaked or confiscated sooner or later, and even if not, few people will get a chance to look at them. The online logs are well preserved and easily available to all. Quote Link to comment
+harmgsn Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 I almost always only ever sign my name to the paper log and leave more of an online log. Realistically, paper logs are going to end up muggled, missing, burned, soaked or confiscated sooner or later, and even if not, few people will get a chance to look at them. The online logs are well preserved and easily available to all. Yeah, we just put the date and our login name (harmgsn, obviously) and re-hide it. We save the good stuff for the website as it normally has more room unlike those crazy small nano-mircos... Quote Link to comment
+GEO*Trailblazer 1 Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 If there is a big log book I write a good log. If a micro just name&date. But I try to leave more than TNLNSL online. I feel that some kind of log needs to be done. I looked at one today that had 380 words,must have been a good one. But then there was the one with 3 words. Quote Link to comment
+ByteRisc Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 I'm soooo glad you posted this topic! I never even considered that the logs I've been writing go to the cache owner! (never a short stupid one in there yet thank god) I figured it was for all the people looking at that cache's description, and the owner would have to look at that page to see it too. Good to know, now I'll tailor my responses to the owner as well. TFTP (thanks for the post ) Quote Link to comment
+MAD DOG BOND Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 One of my favorite parts of hiding caches is (or was) receiving emailed logs from the cachers that have found or not found my caches. My enjoyment of this part of the game has diminished over the last couple of years due to the increasingly poor logging practices of my fellow cachers. Yes, I know, an LPC doesn't deserve a 100 word log and that's not what I'm talking about (I don't hide those anyway). What I'm ranting about today is the poor quality of online logs on quality caches. "TNLNSL - TFTC" isn't an acceptable log on a cache that's on many people's favorites list. Many newbies seem to start off logging with the dreaded acronyms and never get away from it unfortunately. I've asked some cachers that write turd logs why they do it and for the most part they say "I can't think of anything to write", or "I'm not creative". I'm not looking for a witty, creative, Kurt Vonnegut-type log, just something descriptive of your time hunting the cache. Its really not hard and only takes a few seconds longer than the "TNLNSL - TFTC" carp. Here's a short list of things you can comment on if you can't think of anything to write in an online log: * what was the weather like? * see any animals, pretty flowers, nudists, etc? * condition of the cache? * logbook full? * condition of swag? * easy to find? tough? * coordinate accuracy - good or bad? * accuracy of terrain and difficulty ratings * travel bug inventory * history of the area * memories of previous caches in the area * comment on the state of the cache's camo, or lack there of * did you like the cache? * any park weirdos? * talk to any muggles or LEO's? I could go on and on! Don't get me started on put-and-paste logs... Quote Link to comment
+MAD DOG BOND Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 When a series of caches hidden by one cacher in the same vicinity, it's kind of hard to write a wildly funny or different mini novel for each cache, but it's not too difficult to at least write a couple of words thanking the cacher for creating the cache in the first place - especially if the cacher has gone to a lot of trouble researching the hide site or making the hunt interesting. Since hiding our first cache, we have made an effort to write better logs and wish others would do the same. It takes time and effort to create a cache, take a minute to write a decent log. Quote Link to comment
+Kit Fox Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 (edited) This is true in some cases. A friend and I are fairly new to the caching stuff, but we've been hitting on average anywhere from 6 to 20 caches in a given day. Most of them are plain vanilla finds that don't take much effort. If the cache was worthwhile (ie: extremely clever hiding spot, or has something neat near it) then we make note of it in our log book that we carry with us to use on the web log later on. I wouldn't say it's being lazy, but it's more of a lack of anything worthwhile to say. The caches that are creative and fun are the ones that get my good comments, otherwise I will use a canned response and copy/paste it. Hiding a log in a tree or whatever is just plain boring. One cacher in this area (going to remain nameless so I don't spoil anything) creatively hid the cache *IN* a wooden fence post. It was a rural fence post, so it's basically the branch of a tree. Only he hollowed the branch out some and lopped off the end to "contain" the cache. It was an awesome cache that really surprised me. It definitely got a good comment and massive kudos from me. Yes, you are right that lame caches deserve lame logs. Be creative in hiding them. Make it a challenge. I'll also mention that the caches where the GPS is spot-on and you don't have to do any kind of guess work or hunting is quite boring. I'm not saying make it super difficult, but at least be creative in the description. A good example is WeisFamily. Go look at some of their caches... they're in remote places and actually have a story attached to them. Granted, I gave lame logs on those, but after finding 18 in a single day, you're really too tired and just want to get them all entered into the system as fast as possible so you can shower and go to sleep. Anyways, enough rambling from me. Carry on. On October 9th, I drove 130 miles, with a 2 year old, and found 23 caches. Some caches were mediocre, and some were very nice. I averaged 33.3 words for all 23 caches. The shortest logs (mediocre caches) were 3, 4, and 8 words. My longest logs were 60, 71, 77, 90, and 92 words. I remembered something unique about every cache I found. Descriptive logs can be written even with a higher number of finds. I logged some of the finds when I got home, then finished logging my finds the next day. A good log can wait until after a shower, or when I wake up. Edited October 17, 2007 by Kit Fox Quote Link to comment
+Western Mass Clan Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I've long thought there should be three different fields in the logs. The public log, the private log, and the personal log. Public is for everyone. Private is for you and the owner. Personal is for you only. Then you should be able to display several of your logs on a page in chronological order so it reads as a whole, not fractions of a day. I like this idea a lot. I would take full advantage of all three fields. Matt Quote Link to comment
+MountainMudbug Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I used to write a lot more in the logbooks and online, but that was when caches were all few and far between, and it felt 'special' to me. Now they are still fun to find (for the most part), but unless something weird or unusual happens in the parking lot next to the light pole, there isn't that much to say. Quote Link to comment
bogleman Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Try this on for size - from a cache I found a few weeks ago. Well this is a long story. I’ve wanted to go for this cache since last fall. Things have gotten rather complicated in my professional life and my routine that I was accustomed to changed for the first time in 7 years, and finally after 18 years I get weekends off – go me. Keep in mind I’ve wanted to find this cache for almost a year now. The other day at work, a company coworker approached me regarding his property; he told me that he got a sweet deal on 4 acres of land near Warren. He went on to tell me he had some concerns about his property line and did not want to have any trouble with his neighbor. He shows me his property map and I look things over and as far as I can tell everything is in proper order (see, I don’t know anything, I can spread it pretty thick). He then goes on to point out an object on the map and asks me what is a BM. I look a little closer and realize it is a benchmark. Well, I know something about benchmarks and the game is on. Later he pulls out a HUGE map of the area and shows me where his property, I look closer and I see “Bakers Rocks” on the map – OMG, I know where this is there is a cache just across the street from you (well sort of), just up the hill. I then explain the whole geocaching story to him and he seems slightly curious. I told him that the boy and I have wanted to go down to his neighborhood for almost a year now and that I would be glad to nose around his property and show him where the benchmark is. Today was the day. Super-K and I head down and we meet up with our buddy, his kids, wife and a neighbor kid. We all nose around and find the benchmark and have a great time. I tell them – we are going up on the hill to find the cache. To my surprise they ALL want to tag along. I tell them I don’t know anything about the area other than the numbers in the GPS and the cache is up the hill, about .75 miles from his house in a rock cave. No problem, they tell me, we went up there looking around last weekend. Great, lets GO. I’m not sure where the others entered but anywhere off of the main road close to the final is quite the work out. 2nd page on its way, Your log length can't be more than 4000 characters - no TNLNSL from me 2nd page We made it to the top of the hill and found some great rocks, looks like folks had quarried the rocks there years ago. Found some huge rocks out in the middle of nowhere that were cut and shaped. We continued on and when we hit the main area of the rocks we all spent quite a bit of time climbing and nosing around in all the small rock caves – AWSOME, just AWSOME area. I keep everyone informed on the final count down as we approach the final. Good thing I took the “big” light, the rock cave was bigger than I expected. All seven of us pile in and start searching, I tell them what we are looking for and me thinking I’m the expert here take the lead. Well I was ready to call it quits when one of the group yells “FOUND IT”. We all take turns nosing through the box, I take the TB and one of the kids says to me, shouldn’t you leave something since you took that thing, well yes and no I tell him. It’s ok to take this thing without leaving something as long as you put it in another bucket. My boy and his new best friend keep nosing around deeper in the cave, everyone else had already left and next thing I know they came from the top and say they found another way out but the spiders got them scared so they left quickly. We all stood around taking pictures, my buddies’ wife took tons of pictures, she really had a good time on the hike. Well going down was a bit easier once we hit the bottom, my buddies son is along side the road yelling and waving his arms, his dad starts to yell at him just as we see a van pull over, here it turns out it was the “extra kids” mom who was coming over for a visit, BONUS we get a free ride back to camp – LOL. We all dog pile into the van and get a free ride back home. All in all this by far was the best adventure I have had to date in my wonderful geocaching career. If you have looked at this cache take the time and suck it up it is well worth it, great rock formations in an awesome area, all of us had a blast. The cache was rather hard to find, take a good flashlight, it gets dark in there. Thanks for putting out a great cache for us to find, we had a blast, thanks for the fun. Ian This took me all of 5 minutes to type out - easy peasey Quote Link to comment
+3doxies Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 On caches we've really enjoyed, or otherwise stood out in one way or another, we usually try to write a reasonably creative log from a doxies perspective..we enjoy it, and hope the owners do, too. And on the darker flip side...we've been tempted to log a few "DNFDNLDNC"s... Did Not Find Did Not Look Do Not Care Quote Link to comment
+Tyger4 Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 I want to say 'thank you' for this post. I hadnt thought about how I logged finds till reading this post. We still make the logbook kinda short sweet and to the point as we are usually a group of 7 and it takes so long just to get all of our names signed. However, we make notes in a notebook and make up for it (at least I think we do) in the online logs. I know that we have chatted with one owner who has said he enjoyed reading our posts. Some of the online logs have started to look like short novels. Anyway, after reading some of the adventures in the online logs and this post...I have gotten better about logging finds. Thank you. ttfn Donna Quote Link to comment
+DudleyGrunt Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 One of my most fun logs to write was a recent DNF... i hAd b1g hoP3s oF fiNdin6 mY 0ldEst caChe 2daY, bU|t i7 wa5 nO_t to 8e. wI[[ nEed to reTU-rn 1nce tHE teMps c*me doVVn @ b1t. FolLOwed peR\ImitER tRai*l t.o wITh|n .12 ^^iLeS oF tH3 CacHe, t4eN fo770wEd th#E cR33k 6eD. SpEnt aN hoUr 5eArChin6. EnjoYed the 1.5 4iKe, Tho+uGh. TftC! You have to see the cache page to see what this madness was about, though. Quote Link to comment
+Team Woodward Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 I too am guilty as charged. My excuse, as feeble as it may be, is that I feel like I'm going 6 ways at once. I don'y get nearly enough time to go Geocaching & when I log I'm usually in a hurry. I will try to do better. Quote Link to comment
+eagletrek Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 One of my favorite parts of hiding caches is (or was) receiving emailed logs from the cachers that have found or not found my caches. My enjoyment of this part of the game has diminished over the last couple of years due to the increasingly poor logging practices of my fellow cachers. Yes, I know, an LPC doesn't deserve a 100 word log and that's not what I'm talking about (I don't hide those anyway). What I'm ranting about today is the poor quality of online logs on quality caches. "TNLNSL - TFTC" isn't an acceptable log on a cache that's on many people's favorites list. Many newbies seem to start off logging with the dreaded acronyms and never get away from it unfortunately. I've asked some cachers that write turd logs why they do it and for the most part they say "I can't think of anything to write", or "I'm not creative". I'm not looking for a witty, creative, Kurt Vonnegut-type log, just something descriptive of your time hunting the cache. Its really not hard and only takes a few seconds longer than the "TNLNSL - TFTC" carp. Here's a short list of things you can comment on if you can't think of anything to write in an online log: * what was the weather like? * see any animals, pretty flowers, nudists, etc? * condition of the cache? * logbook full? * condition of swag? * easy to find? tough? * coordinate accuracy - good or bad? * accuracy of terrain and difficulty ratings * travel bug inventory * history of the area * memories of previous caches in the area * comment on the state of the cache's camo, or lack there of * did you like the cache? * any park weirdos? * talk to any muggles or LEO's? I could go on and on! Don't get me started on put-and-paste logs... As I've been reminded before, don't dictate to others how the "game" should be played. If I elect to post short logs and use "cut and pastes" that's my choice. Are you allowed to complain???? You sure can!!!! Do I have to listen and/or care???? I don't think so!!!!! Sounds like we got an "ego thang" goin' here!!!!! Quote Link to comment
+VO2WW Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 I only sign my name and the date on the paper log but leave more of an online log. I think the paper logs are going to end up muggled, missing or replaced sooner or later. As well few people will take the time to look at them. The online logs are forever and readly available to all. I also like to post a picture, hopefully something that relates to the cache or Geocaching. I always thank the hider for playing the game no matter what the quality of the cache. My log and exchange of swag, although I am a 90% leaver, is often colored by the quality of the hide or container, a poor cache may rate little more than TNLNSL but always a Thank you. Quote Link to comment
+Kit Fox Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 I made it an effort to write even longer online logs than I did before. I've got my average word count up to 39.7 words based on INATN calculations. I found an old thread that was worth posting again. Tnlnsl A Rante! Quote Link to comment
+CYBret Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 ....just musing here about the need for a thread about "The Lost Art of Writing a Cache Page." Sorry to be off topic, but it drives me nuts when I see one that's completely blank. Isn't there ANYTHING you can tell me about the location you're bringing me to?!?!? Maybe those are the ones that want "TFTC" in their logs. Quote Link to comment
+Scare Force One Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 what was the weather like? * see any animals, pretty flowers, nudists, etc? * condition of the cache? * logbook full? * condition of swag? * easy to find? tough? * coordinate accuracy - good or bad? * accuracy of terrain and difficulty ratings * travel bug inventory * history of the area * memories of previous caches in the area * comment on the state of the cache's camo, or lack there of * did you like the cache? * any park weirdos? * talk to any muggles or LEO's? I could go on and on! Ill just write you a 5 paragraph essay on the condition of your cache. If your worried about the condition of your cache GO LOOK. If someone answered all these questions in a log to me I would worri3e about their mental status. ~.~Scare Force One Quote Link to comment
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