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Roadside Memorial crosses


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For all you that really love cemetery caches. Here is a series in Indiana that a hider started. Now we playing a game around someones loss of a loved one. There is no historic value like some cemeteries, just a loss of a loved one. Not only is there a cache container with a log, you also have to get a picture with your gps and the cross. ARE YOU KIDDING ME, TAKE A LOOK. WHERE IS THIS GAME OR HOBBY HEADING. Here is the link to Cache #1. The hider has 10 caches out of this type, some are traditional.

 

Cache #1

 

 

:D:oB):(:rolleyes:

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Not something that would entice me to look for the caches, but I don't see it in as poor a light as you do.

 

These memorials often go unvisited after the first few months, other than perhaps by very close family. If a geocacher is drawn to one for the cache and takes the time to learn a little about the victim (there are often laminated obits attached) and reflect on his or her life for a few moments, I don't see the harm.

Edited by briansnat
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Team GCH,

 

I agree with you. I personally don't agree with this type of hide unless it happened to be a family member or friend who placed the cache as a way to honor or remember the loved one. If it were a friend or anyone else, then I think it's a case where they should seek permission from a family member.

 

There are so many good places to hide geocaches, I don't understand why the 'general' geocaching public would feel the need to hide one in a place like that but not everone has the same thought process or values. If I came across a cache like that while researching, I would not do it unless I knew it was a family member or friend who placed it there and they did it as an opportunity to allow the cacher to learn about that person's life. I've done a couple memorial caches but they were not placed at crosses or in cemetaries.

 

~tsun

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I don't like them for two reasons.

 

1 I doubt he has permision from relatives of the dead person to place it. Not allowd to place in a cemetery whats the difference (ok lack of body) but still come on there are other places to put a cache.

 

2 Alot of crashes happen on dangerous bends/interestions do we really want to encourage people to stop here and possibly cause more problems.

 

On the other hand if the page had more information about the person whos memorial we were visiting then it would become more about remembering them and their family then just finding a cache for a smily

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I don't like them for two reasons.

 

1 I doubt he has permision from relatives of the dead person to place it. Not allowd to place in a cemetery whats the difference (ok lack of body) but still come on there are other places to put a cache.

 

Somehow, I doubt that the people who put out these memorials had permission to put them there in the first place. If it's on public property (with presumed permission to place the memorial) why would the geocacher need permission? The family of the deceased does not own the land. I see a lot with things nailed into telephone poles. That's against NJ State law. (An issue of safety for utility workers.) Then there's the one on the railroad bridge that I cross every day. That's not where the police officer died. He was under the bridge, directing a fire truck to put out a fire, when he was hit by the NJ Transit train. Why put the memorial so far away? Quite simple, IMHO, these things are litter.

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1 I doubt he has permision from relatives of the dead person to place it. Not allowd to place in a cemetery whats the difference (ok lack of body) but still come on there are other places to put a cache.

 

The difference is, this is on the side of the road, or nearby usually, and most likely on private property. We recently drove by one of these roadside memorials, and one of my kids thought they had buried the driver right there. :rolleyes: We explained it to him.

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I don't like them for two reasons.

 

1 I doubt he has permision from relatives of the dead person to place it. Not allowd to place in a cemetery whats the difference (ok lack of body) but still come on there are other places to put a cache.

 

Somehow, I doubt that the people who put out these memorials had permission to put them there in the first place. If it's on public property (with presumed permission to place the memorial) why would the geocacher need permission? The family of the deceased does not own the land. I see a lot with things nailed into telephone poles. That's against NJ State law. (An issue of safety for utility workers.) Then there's the one on the railroad bridge that I cross every day. That's not where the police officer died. He was under the bridge, directing a fire truck to put out a fire, when he was hit by the NJ Transit train. Why put the memorial so far away? Quite simple, IMHO, these things are litter.

Oh man, and I thought my post would come off sounding a little heartless, but calling a loved one's memorial litter?

 

I like it!!! :rolleyes:

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Personally I dont see the problem with them. Maybe because there are so many crosses in my area. Not just from dangerous locations, but because people were the victims of dangerous circumstances (someone fleeing the cops and runs light, killing college student for example). Maybe I just understand the draw to the crosses because I understand their need to grieve. Why would this cache be any different than a cache like one I know of at the site of a memorial to a cop, who was killed by a criminal at that same location? A fallen hero. A fallen hero is a good cache that honors the memory of a cop killed in the line of duty. I dont see that the owner of Crossroads roads crosses meant this to be anything other than a recognition of the memorial and the grief of the families. Its beats a lamp post behind the local walmart cache any day.

 

I have planned a roadside cross cache (for a few years now). The container would be the cross. I have permission from the city to do so too. Its in a safe area. Ive just been too lazy to make the cross/ container.

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I have issues with the freaking roadside memorials in the first place. I don't like them at all and don't think they belong there. As for caches placed at roadside memorials, I don't think I'd look for them.

 

I don't like them for two reasons.

 

1 I doubt he has permision from relatives of the dead person to place it. Not allowd to place in a cemetery whats the difference (ok lack of body) but still come on there are other places to put a cache.

 

Somehow, I doubt that the people who put out these memorials had permission to put them there in the first place. If it's on public property (with presumed permission to place the memorial) why would the geocacher need permission? The family of the deceased does not own the land. I see a lot with things nailed into telephone poles. That's against NJ State law. (An issue of safety for utility workers.) Then there's the one on the railroad bridge that I cross every day. That's not where the police officer died. He was under the bridge, directing a fire truck to put out a fire, when he was hit by the NJ Transit train. Why put the memorial so far away? Quite simple, IMHO, these things are litter.

 

I agree with both of you, roadside memorials are litter, the marker belongs with the deceased. In my opinion they should all be removed after they have been up for a month, they serve no purpose beyond that. Placing a cache there is no more disrespectful than placing a memorial miles away from the deceased.

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For all you that really love cemetery caches. Here is a series in Indiana that a hider started. Now we playing a game around someones loss of a loved one. There is no historic value like some cemeteries, just a loss of a loved one. Not only is there a cache container with a log, you also have to get a picture with your gps and the cross. ARE YOU KIDDING ME, TAKE A LOOK. WHERE IS THIS GAME OR HOBBY HEADING. Here is the link to Cache #1. The hider has 10 caches out of this type, some are traditional.

 

Cache #1

 

 

:rolleyes::(:oB):D

I hate those freaking crosses anyway. They tend to accumulate debris and become a roadside hazard. Sooner or later someone is going to die because of a cross honoring someone who dies. While there is an irony about that we have perfectly good locations to pay our respects to the dead without creating distracting roadside obsiticals. The worst of the worst are the ones that become cairns. Picture plowing into that at 65mph.

 

Oh, and caches in that part of the roadway right of way are generally not a good idea as well. They would suffer from litter pick up programs, and parking your car to get them creates a hazard to boot. When you are standing around looking for a cache with cars whizzing by a highway speeds, comfortable is not something you should be feeling. That said, other than the stupid cache location, I really don't mind a cache near a cross.

 

To answer Harry Dolphin: Yes you can get a permit to put a roadside cross on the road in quite a few states. They are nothing but trouble bit your legislature wants you to know that should you lose a loved one they feel your pain. They won't do much of anything else for you to make the world a better place but dang it you can have your own roadside memorial.

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For all you that really love cemetery caches. Here is a series in Indiana that a hider started. Now we playing a game around someones loss of a loved one. There is no historic value like some cemeteries, just a loss of a loved one. Not only is there a cache container with a log, you also have to get a picture with your gps and the cross. ARE YOU KIDDING ME, TAKE A LOOK. WHERE IS THIS GAME OR HOBBY HEADING. Here is the link to Cache #1. The hider has 10 caches out of this type, some are traditional.

 

Cache #1

 

 

:rolleyes::(:oB):D

 

I can't help but think of the family of the person and how they would feel about their loved one being part of a treasure hunt.

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2 Alot of crashes happen on dangerous bends/interestions do we really want to encourage people to stop here and possibly cause more problems.

 

I would say it if you hadn't said it first. This is precisely why I avoided one of these. If people driving down the road got killed here, then it's possible that there's something intrinsically wrong with the spot and people stopping on the road would be much worse.

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I also think placing a cache at a roadside cross is somewhat disrespectful. Such a cross is normally placed there by people close to the deceased who feel the need to do it as a way for them to cope with their loss. The memorial in most cases is not permanent, so the fact that it is there indicates that the loss could be quite recent that it still means something to them.

 

With cemeteries there is is more of a time factor and a bit less personal, although I probably wouldn't place a cache there either. It's all a bit macabre. I would be more relaxed about an old cemetery like Pere Lachaise (sp?) in Paris as the personal loss aspect would be non-existant by now.

 

It's about respect for those experiencing the loss.

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I'm with you on this one. I totally dislike the roadside "memorials". Crosses, flowers, candles, whatever, they always look like trashy, and are nothing more than litter. There are much better ways to honor a loved one who has passed on. I know of one town in MA that has the public works dept. routinely pick up these displays.

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I don't have a problem with roadside memorials (they aren't always crosses), in fact, it is interesting to see the different types and designs as you travel the country. I especially liked the ones in New Mexico. Would I stop for a cache at one, maybe. There'd have to be nearby parking and in a public space.

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For all you that really love cemetery caches. Here is a series in Indiana that a hider started. Now we playing a game around someones loss of a loved one. There is no historic value like some cemeteries, just a loss of a loved one. Not only is there a cache container with a log, you also have to get a picture with your gps and the cross. ARE YOU KIDDING ME, TAKE A LOOK. WHERE IS THIS GAME OR HOBBY HEADING. Here is the link to Cache #1. The hider has 10 caches out of this type, some are traditional.

 

Cache #1

 

 

:(:rolleyes::DB):o

I am not sure why you are upset. Roadside crosses and other memorials are ubiquitous around the USA, and have social significance. I have had this same idea myself, and I think that it is kinda neat. I applaud this cacher for having thought of this fun twist on modern pop culture! Neat! Thanks for brining these hides to my attention!

 

However, I would like to point out that MANY of these roadside memorials, if placed at or near a spot where REAL roadside cross/memorial is located, may be on very dangerous spots along some roads and highways, and thus some of the cache listing pages will hopefully bear appropriate warnings about where to park, will bear the appropriate Danger attribute icon, and will bear a sufficiently high Terran rating -- I would suggest a Terrain rating of 5 for the really dangerous locations.

 

While on the general topic, however, I detest cemetery caches, and I hope that they disappear from the geocaching lansdscape. Roadside memorials, as I have stated above, are a rather different type of animal altogether, and could be fun.

Edited by Vinny & Sue Team
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I guess I'm surprised that so many people are bothered by the concept of roadside memorials (not to mention hiding a cache at one). Personally I've always liked them, and see them as a reminder of how dangerous our roads can be. Maybe I'm just biased, since three of my childhood friends were once murdered by a drunk driver with something like 14 prior DUIs. I've only been by the site a few times since then, but the three crosses are to me a meaningful memorial. And maybe if they can get someone's attention, maybe get them to slow down or drive more carefully, I don't see why that's such a bad thing.

 

If any motorcyclists are familiar with the Dragon (a popular but dangerous road in Tennessee), I've driven it countless times over the years and once considered putting a few caches out at similar memorials. Sure, some of them are quite tacky, but others are very nicely done (some people even had metal plaques cast and set into a rock where a friend was killed) and each has significance to the people who put them out in memory of a loved one. In the end, it came down to a safety issue, and I ended up putting a cache at an overlook instead. To me, safety would be the number one drawback, but if hidden in a good accessible spot, I don't have a problem with the series.

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I have issues with the freaking roadside memorials in the first place. I don't like them at all and don't think they belong there. As for caches placed at roadside memorials, I don't think I'd look for them.

 

 

DITTO! I am 30 y/o and lost my best friend in the summer of 1994 at the age of 17 due to him falling asleep at the wheel and 3 days to the 1 year memorial of my best friend dying, my child hood friend of 17 years lost his brother to a car wreck on the Oregon Coast. I completely understand the loss of a close friend or family member, but these things are tacky as they come and look like trailer trash garbage on the side of the road.

You keep their memories alive in your head and heart....not where they left the Earth on the side of a road. But we could go on and on about this. This is just the first time I've ever seen discussion about it. And as far as finding a cache at one....no thanks.

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I guess I'm surprised that so many people are bothered by the concept of roadside memorials ...

 

When I was a kid, I drove on a memorial road, visited a memorial park, sat in a memorial bench, looked at a memorial tree, took a walk down some memorial lane, and got treated to some memorial crosses. It was a depressing vacation. Ever since I really haven't had a lot of use to bury the life around us in memory of all the death that came before.

 

A tasteful cross will impale you quite nicely if you go off road in that spot. They are not designed to roadside standards. A roadway embankment is normally "recoverable" meaning you won't roll your car unless you do something really stupid. Like hit your wheel on one of those nice stones set in the ground to mark someones passing while going down that embankment. A perfectly flat marker would be fine, but you can't see that while whizzing down the road.

 

Given how you used the word murder, then by your own logic, people placing these things on the roadside who know full well that cars do go off road are endangering peoples lives by their actions and should be prosecuted for murder when the inevitable happens. Personally I'd rather just not allow them to begin with.

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Personally, I've never really understood why someone would want to mark the location where a loved one died, and, in these cases, probably died badly. I can only guess that they are marking it at the location where they last "lived".

 

I'd much rather find a beautiful location where I know that the loved one enjoyed or would have enjoyed and then place a cache there, as I did for my brother Bubba last year : Remember Bubba

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I have just a couple of quick thoughts regarding this issue.

 

First, according to the cache page, the cache is not at the marker. It is a multi that appears to require you to start at a location near the marker. I don't see how this is different from any other multi; many of which include some sort of memorial as a stage.

 

Second, I don't see that parking is an issue. Every cache hunt starts with finding a place to park. The parking location may be right next to the cache or require one to walk a ways. Either way doesn't make the cache inappropriate.

 

Third, I think that the 'inherent danger' of these caches is a fallacy. The markers tend to be at the side of the road near where an accident occurred in the road. That doesn't necessarily make the roadside any more dangerous than anywhere else. Heck, even if the person was killed when a car went off the road, it doesn't make the spot inherently dangerous. I assume that the roadside cross hasn't been repeatedly run over.

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1. I don't have problem with these memorials and think that if it helps the family deal with their grief, we can make allowances for them.

 

2. My first impression was that I didn't like the idea of using them as cache locations. After readin the full cache page and the previous posts, I think that as long the cache / multi-stage is located near and not on or directly at the memorial, I wouldn't have a problem with it. The same way, I don't mind virtual cemetary caches or needing to visit a cemetary to get info for a multi or puzzle cache, but wouldn't want physical caches placed there.

 

3. It definitely appears that the owner of the referenced cache had only the best intentions with this series.

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Given how you used the word murder, then by your own logic, people placing these things on the roadside who know full well that cars do go off road are endangering peoples lives by their actions and should be prosecuted for murder when the inevitable happens. Personally I'd rather just not allow them to begin with.

 

That's not my logic at all. Impaired driving, especially after getting your license revoked and being told numerous times not to do it again by a judge, is a highly reckless action that only puts yourself and others in danger, which is why there are often steep penalties for being caught. Is leaving roadside memorials also illegal in some areas? Of course it is. If a city/state/etc decides to outlaw them, I'd respect that. But I'd be willing to bet that where such regulations are in place, they have more to do with aesthetics than safety. Can somebody cite an example otherwise? While hundreds of sober people die every year from accidents in which the party responsible for the crash is legally drunk (the number ranges anywhere from 500 into the thousands depending on how you calculate it, which in itself is a debate), I can't say I've ever heard of someone getting killed from running into a roadside memorial, or being distracted by one as they pass by.

 

I'll build on what sbell said above. Just because an accident occurs at a particular spot, doesn't necessarily mean that the spot is dangerous, it just means that, at one point, something happened that resulted in loss of life. The site I referred to in my original post was within city limits, in a 30MPH zone, with wide shoulders, a sidewalk, and a parking lot.

 

I think it's a bit silly to argue that a small, flimsy wooden cross would be a danger to someone who happens to run into it. A rock or cairn, sure, I'll agree with you there. Still, what makes it any more dangerous than a metal sign, a bridge abutment, or the end of a guardrail, all of which were placed by the highway department? Or a mailbox or telephone pole? I think if someone were ever in a position to be "impaled" by such a marker, the few pieces of wood and fake flowers breaking your fall are the least of your worries.

 

I do agree with you here, though: at roadside areas that may be inherently unsafe, I would be strongly opposed to leaving a cache. Doing so is just putting finders at risk or injury or worse, since they would be required to get out of their vehicle and search along the roadside. As for the memorials, I would also hope that the placer would be smart enough to move them a few feet to a safer area if they must leave one.

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with an almost infinite amount of potential places for a cache, why would someone choose to place one in an area that's only characteristic is that it is a place that draws bereavement from people who lost a loved one?

it seems the idea was to make people aware of what happened so i don't think the intentions are bad, just unrealistic. a significant number of geocachers don't seem to have any interest or sensitivity for the areas where they are caching. the goal is merely to get another smiley face and get out. i don't think those who placed the memorials would appreciate the site being used by some as place to score points in a game.

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Seems disrespectful to me for an area meant for solemn reflection. As for me I doubt I'd do them.

Here's a picture of the memorial that is the first stage of my 'Great Caesar's Ghost' cache. How is it any different? (Other than the fact that my cache makes you walk right up to the memorial and the OP's example appears to take you 45 feet from it.)

relo-ani-1.gif

Edited by sbell111
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I have issues with the freaking roadside memorials in the first place. I don't like them at all and don't think they belong there. As for caches placed at roadside memorials, I don't think I'd look for them.

 

I don't like them for two reasons.

 

1 I doubt he has permision from relatives of the dead person to place it. Not allowd to place in a cemetery whats the difference (ok lack of body) but still come on there are other places to put a cache.

 

Somehow, I doubt that the people who put out these memorials had permission to put them there in the first place. If it's on public property (with presumed permission to place the memorial) why would the geocacher need permission? The family of the deceased does not own the land. I see a lot with things nailed into telephone poles. That's against NJ State law. (An issue of safety for utility workers.) Then there's the one on the railroad bridge that I cross every day. That's not where the police officer died. He was under the bridge, directing a fire truck to put out a fire, when he was hit by the NJ Transit train. Why put the memorial so far away? Quite simple, IMHO, these things are litter.

 

I agree with both of you, roadside memorials are litter, the marker belongs with the deceased. In my opinion they should all be removed after they have been up for a month, they serve no purpose beyond that. Placing a cache there is no more disrespectful than placing a memorial miles away from the deceased.

 

I'm with you on this one. I totally dislike the roadside "memorials". Crosses, flowers, candles, whatever, they always look like trashy, and are nothing more than litter. There are much better ways to honor a loved one who has passed on. I know of one town in MA that has the public works dept. routinely pick up these displays.

 

I have a friend who is a traffic cop, and he refers to the roadside shrines as attempts to enshrine stupid people who weren't paying attention while driving. I will aknowledge that a portion of the "roadside shrines" are for innocent victims.

 

I would never place caches near "roadside shrines" of completely random people. The location would have to be of historical significance, like the Virtual Cache dedicated to James Dean

Edited by Kit Fox
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For all you that really love cemetery caches. Here is a series in Indiana that a hider started. Now we playing a game around someones loss of a loved one. There is no historic value like some cemeteries, just a loss of a loved one. Not only is there a cache container with a log, you also have to get a picture with your gps and the cross. ARE YOU KIDDING ME, TAKE A LOOK. WHERE IS THIS GAME OR HOBBY HEADING. Here is the link to Cache #1. The hider has 10 caches out of this type, some are traditional.

Cache #1

:D:DB):lol::D

 

The cache listing didn't seem disrespectful. Seems to me there's a different expectation of privacy and solemnity by the side of the road as opposed to in a cemetery. If I blow a tire and pull to the shoulder to change it, I'm not going to be concerned if I'm doing so next to a roadside memorial. In terms of death-related taboos, the body is elsewhere (I hope!), so nearby activity isn't interrupting the departed's eternal slumber. If some folks are curious about the memorial, whether they're made so by seeing it from the car window or because of a nearby cache, they have every right to have a look.

 

There ought to be time, size and density restrictions on these memorials. I don't see them as a big hazard, but I'd be unhappy if I had to swerve off the road in an emergency and ended up hitting a pair of 2x4s nailed together as a memorial to someone else's accident...

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...I'll build on what sbell said above. Just because an accident occurs at a particular spot, doesn't necessarily mean that the spot is dangerous, it just means that, at one point, something happened that resulted in loss of life. The site I referred to in my original post was within city limits, in a 30MPH zone, with wide shoulders, a sidewalk, and a parking lot.

 

I think it's a bit silly to argue that a small, flimsy wooden cross would be a danger to someone who happens to run into it. A rock or cairn, sure, I'll agree with you there. Still, what makes it any more dangerous than a metal sign, a bridge abutment, or the end of a guardrail, all of which were placed by the highway department? Or a mailbox or telephone pole? I think if someone were ever in a position to be "impaled" by such a marker, the few pieces of wood and fake flowers breaking your fall are the least of your worries....

 

Driving has a risk associated with it. When you have roads, you will have people who drive off them. You can only apply statistics to the bigger picture and even then you can't say with certainty that "this spot is the next one" only that there will be a next spot that someone drives off the road.

 

Speed matters. Size matters. 30mph may not get you killed if a balsa wood cross hits your windsheld in the right spot. 55 might. However 30mph would probably do the trick if you had already rolled your car and broken out your windshield or they used some sturdy 2x4 wood. Telephone poles, mailboxes are part of the larger issue of roadside obsticals.

 

Your drunk driving issue, my cross issue are the same in that it's all statistical until something happens. Oh and once again by your logic. If you should be facing a head on accident, how drunk or sober the other driver is, is the least of your worries. Reverse it to what you are really saying. Prevention, Prevention, Prevention. That's what I'm saying. That's also my job. Someday you may be in a position to thank someone like me that you or someone you loved lived because I think of these things. Odds are you already know someone. You call it silly, I ay otherwise. Every time you drive you are betting your life that folks like me are right, and even if it is silly, you are betting your life that folks like me are catching the things that aren't so silly and which folks like you who have other sills don't think about.

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Someone has already lost their life at the area, now we are inviting others to stop and log a geocache. What would the family think if they knew we were playing a game around their loss. If they want to up keep the area they will do it.

 

Isn't the point of the crosses to put something up so that people will stop and read? Seems like that's what putting a geocache there will accomplish as well... as long as the crosses aren't being physically disturbed or altered, I can't see a problem.

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I don't have any problem with these, or cemetary caches for that matter - as long as they are done respectfully. Bringing attention to someone's loss helps keep their memory alive. We do have some of these memorials around our area - I have no problem at all with people placing them.

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You guys are worried about a road side cross impaling a crash victim? You obviously don't remember the good old days when road signs were at the right height to decapitate you if you hit them straight on. Yeah, and before seat belts and air bags, hard metal dash boards and radio knobs that looked like spikes... And you're worried about a silly piece of wood with a billion to one chance of killing you?

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After seeing these caches and posts after starting this topic. I contact my state law maker and one of my friends that is a state police officer. In Indiana on state roads roadside memorials are illegal. Indiana code #8-23-1-38 defines signs, which memorials and crosses fall under. Indiana code #8-23-20-6 is what is prohibited and #2 is why they prohibited. County and City might have different laws. So I guess it is up to the reviewer to find out the local laws.

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