ReMinting a coin...

[+tsunrisebey]

I can hear the groans now (lol), tsun, why you gotta go and start a new thread about this?

 

Since this seems to be an issue, I thought I'd just open up a new thread to discuss reminting in general. This is an opportunity for you as coin producers, customers, potential coin producers, etc. to talk about what matters to you. You want your voices to be heard? Post here.

 

Please be civil and keep a healthy dialogue going. Don't try to "out" certain coins or coin makers. Just talk about what you'd like to see happen/posted/information, whatever when a coin is produced? Do you really want a notice of possible reminting? If it is reminted, same or different metals/colors? Wait a certain amount of time before a remint?

 

Coin producers: this is a chance to read what your customers are about to say.

Customers: This is a chance to make your thoughts known.

 

Quite honestly, I'm curious about what the general feeling is.

 

~tsun

 

p.s. I'm headed to town but I'm going to weigh in on the subject too.

 

edit for spelling

Edited August 20, 2007 by tsunrisebey

[+tsunrisebey]

Sorry, I guess I was typing while you were typing FSM, you can close this thread. ~tsun

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

LOL, good idea.

 

All comments under this will fall into the discussion over there.

 

Thanks.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Re-opening based on a number of PMs stating that you all think it's different enough to stand on it's own.

 

Let's see what happens.

[+pghlooking]

Unless a coin was announced with a disclousure that it could/would be reminted based on demand or anything else, it stands to reason to think it was minted as a one time deal and people were buying from a set quantity and they have a reasonable expectation that the coin would not be reminted again. Simply shanging a color of the coin is still a reminting. Changing a metal is a reminting. A new different die is not a reminting. This is how is was done for years here and there was never an issue about it.

[+coreynjoey]

Unless a coin was announced with a disclousure that it could/would be reminted based on demand or anything else, it stands to reason to think it was minted as a one time deal and people we

 

 

Unless a coin was announced with a disclousure that it couldn't/wouldn't be reminted, it stands to reason to think it could be minted again.

[+BRoKeN W]

I don't care if an RE coin is reminted or not (using the same metal finish, whatever). I buy and collect coins because I like the design, not because of their trade value or because they might sell well on ebay. Personally I think a business should do what their customers (potential and current) demand. If the majority want a remint, then by all means.. REMINT!

[+Theseus]

Moving my comment from FSM's other thread to the more appropriate venue...

 

I actually think tsun's thread is different enough from this one to merit staying open (what to disclose when selling vs. whether reminting is a moral tragedy may be related but are different issues) but I guess that's neither here nor there at this point. My thoughts on that question (reminting) are as follows...

 

First, I think everyone agrees that the more clarity upfront the better. Second, I'm in what appears to be the minority that thinks reminting is fine. I understand the reasons why people take the other side of this and don't dispute them. The market demands more? Crank 'em out and match the supply to the demand. Yes, yes, the horrific devaluation of the first batch - that doesn't bother me one whit. Again, I know others don't see it this way but I do.

[+zazth]

I buy a coin because I like the coin! If I like it a lot and I think others will too I buy two or three to trade with later. ( I don't have my own personal coin, YET) When I buy the coin it is not with an expectation of making a profit off of it later on by selling it. Not saying I'm not swayed by there only being a low set number of a particular coin. Different metals, different coin. Seems like some people get a coin in each metal it was made in for their collection while others have a metal preference.

As long as no statements were made that limit the # produced then I see no reason why you couldn't remint as many as you want. I'm sure there are those who will be upset by this as it will drive down resale prices. After all why pay $30 or more for a coin when you can get it straight from the manufacturer for the original price? As for the LE issue, if it is a LE well, that's different. It is "Limited" to a set number and no more should be made.

[+Hula Bum]

And there would be the issue, it goes both ways.

 

Sounds like a clear stating of "this is it" or "there may be more" would be a good start.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about the different metals issue. On the one hand it seems like this keeps trade value up, as there were only X number in a certain metal, but the overall number of that coin goes up, so does that decrease their value?

 

I guess the other side of that, is trading still alive and well? Seems like it's an awful lot of buying and selling (not trading), so what does it matter then?

 

I personally liked when there were only small runs of coins, not everyone got them, and u had to trade.

[CinemaBoxers]

I don't buy coins to trade, I buy them to add them to my own collection. I couldn't care less about the number minted.

 

But, most of you know my feelings. The people who are likely to be the most concerned are those who purchase a buttload of one coin for the sake of ebay or to trade - thats their prerogative to do so, but I don't think the market should cater to these people.

[+pghlooking]

Unless a coin was announced with a disclousure that it could/would be reminted based on demand or anything else, it stands to reason to think it was minted as a one time deal and people we

 

 

Unless a coin was announced with a disclousure that it couldn't/wouldn't be reminted, it stands to reason to think it could be minted again.

That logic fails when the person doing the coin announces how many coins are being minted. They are given a specific number, not for fun, but for actual factual information. When a coin has that number associated with it, then it a dead issue and should not be something revisited. Total means total, not subtotal.

 

Pretend it is signature plates for a second. Some people will buy because they like Mickey and others because they see a value with it. Either way they are buying for their own reason. The plates are said to be 1/300 or 300 made. Either way people are buying them under this information. If the ones who buy them for a perceived value find out later that another 200 plates are minted, then they have a legitmate beef with the company making them. It was falsely advertised. The advertising and full disclosure should reside with the company or person doing the sale.

 

If in the "real world" people had to pull teeth and come up with the absolute correct wording of every question, not to mention figure out every loophole to every question, then the companies would be getting a lot more grief and I doubt many people here would do buisness with them. This was never an issue in the past how many years. When a coin was announced with a set number, it was the number made and sold, not per run or anything goofy like that.

[+pghlooking]

I don't buy coins to trade, I buy them to add them to my own collection. I couldn't care less about the number minted.

 

But, most of you know my feelings. The people who are likely to be the most concerned are those who purchase a buttload of one coin for the sake of ebay or to trade - thats their prerogative to do so, but I don't think the market should cater to these people.

I rarely buy more 1 coin for myself anymore, and have only sold a few coins on eBay so I don't lump myself in that group at all, but I still think they are correct on this. No one is asking them to be catered to at all. In fact it seems some people are claiming they aren't true collectors because they don't collect for the artistic value purely. The fact remains if all information stated clearly and adhered to then this isn't an issue.

[+ArtieD]

Minters and designers should be able to make as many RE coins as they want to. If the market demands more to purchase then it is doing the market a disservice not to.

 

I know I buy coins based on the design and care less if they make 50 or 50,000 of them. Speculators are the ones who complain the most about mintages and I feel it is they that do the most harm.

[+MustangJoni]

I don't buy coins to trade, I buy them to add them to my own collection. I couldn't care less about the number minted.

 

But, most of you know my feelings. The people who are likely to be the most concerned are those who purchase a buttload of one coin for the sake of ebay or to trade - thats their prerogative to do so, but I don't think the market should cater to these people.

 

There is nothing wrong with ebay, and there is REALLY nothing wrong with buying extra for trading. That is what this coin community is built on.

 

I'm not aiming this at Paula in particular, but when I buy coins, and I know the company remints popular coins, or mints tons of them to begin with, I only buy one. I don't need a trader of it.

 

I'm not saying coins shouldn't be reminted, but why buy a trader of that coin? And that is exactly why people get upset if it isn't disclosed up front about your intention to remint.

[+nielsenc]

If I make a coin and dont want to be held to a number, I wont publish one. If I say, 150 coins, I try to stick to that number.

[+Renegade Knight]

What you say is what you honor. If you sold the coin and said 150. Then it's 150. Not 150 Blue and 150 Black Nickel. If you said "Up to 1000" and sold 500, you have 500 to go.

 

If you said "2007 FSM Coin" and nothing else. Then everthing you make in 2007 is good, but you can't spill the 2007 version into 2008.

 

If you make it as your signature itme and never said anything to anyone about how many, there is no limit.

 

If you didn't sell it but said 300 and traded. It's 300. If you didn't sell it, didn't trade it and said 300, you only need to annouce you changed your mind.

 

The committment to others is your guide.

[57chevy]

So the feeling I'm getting from some of the posts concerning minting is that there is absolutely no gray area, and whether or not you have minted and sold 1 or 200 coins, whatever is posted is set in stone? Joe Schmo does not have the freedom to interpret his version of the posted quantities in the posted metals, in the posted versions? I don't think that is quite the way it should be when not everyone is on the same wavelength as to what is what concerning RE, LE, XLE, XXLE, AE etc... I would personally give a little slack to someone who has only done 1 coin sale, and didn't quite word something right in the description. Just think how pissy people would be if you didn't post a number. I bet with the right design they'd sell out regardless. It wouldn't surprise me if a number of manufacturers/designers refused to disclose mintage. Can't say as I'd blame em. What's to say the disclosed amounts are accurate anyway?

[+CachingCoins]

I had more coins made in a different metal. I guess we did say up front how many coins were minted & in the original sale. (Even if it was a bit different.) I had more made in the new metal purely because it was much easier than going through the whole process again. I needed something to give as gifts & to trade, if people were willing to get the same design in a new metal. I do make it clear that it is the same design, just a different metal.

 

If I was buying #20/300 of a "Disney" print that was signed & they came out with another 300 EXACTLY the same, I would think that was wrong. But, they could come out with the exact same picture only signed "Walt Disney" & the art world would be OK with that. A lot of the great artists have original hand sigs, hand stamp, machine stamp, original sigs & #'d all on the same "picture". They do it so many different ways it can really be hard to tell the true value of the piece.

 

As far as how I feel about coins. I believe that if you say this is a LE of 100, it is for that design & that metal. If you change ANYTHING at all about the coin it is a new version of the coin with it's own value.

 

And that's my humble opinion.

[+WWC-World's Worst Cacher]

This is a great issue to bring up. My thoughts . . . And Practice:

 

1. I try to provide as much disclosure as possible.

2. If I publish a number I stick with that number.

3. If I don't publish a number it is because I want to leave open the possibility of doing a reminting.

4. Sometimes people will ask me how many I am making or will make and I will provide a ballpark number, which again means that I might mint more.

 

The issue seems to be mostly about ebay values. One of the things that is curious is that there is an assumption that there is a very direct correlation between the number minted and the ebay values. It seems to have a lot more to do with the overall look, feel popularity of a coin than minting numbers. I can point to "sold out" Hogwild Coins that had really big mintings and have big ebay prices. I can also point you to coins that have small mintings, are sold out and will go unsold with rather modest starting prices.

 

The bottom line should be disclosure up front.

[57chevy]

 

As far as how I feel about coins. I believe that if you say this is a LE of 100, it is for that design & that metal. If you change ANYTHING at all about the coin it is a new version of the coin with it's own value.

 

And that's my humble opinion.

 

Sounds right. If the LE is the LE everyone had agreed to in the union meeting. And the Antique bronze isn't actually an antique gold.

[avroair]

I understand people want to sell as many coins as they can to make more money and profit so they can make more coins or buy cool things, geocoins are commercial in nature. For me it's really an issue of disclosure rather than reminting. I don't mind if people remint, they should, however the buyer their intentions whether they are going to remint or not. The best policy is upfront honesty.

[avroair]

The issue seems to be mostly about ebay values.

 

I would expand that to say secondary market value. Ebay plays a part. But trade value is more important, especially in a collectible market. Without the secondary profitable market, reminting wouldn't happen. Even a well-liked coin is definately going to trade for less if it keeps becoming available for remints.

[+MustangJoni]

I understand people want to sell as many coins as they can to make more money and profit so they can make more coins or buy cool things, geocoins are commercial in nature. For me it's really an issue of disclosure rather than reminting. I don't mind if people remint, they should, however the buyer their intentions whether they are going to remint or not. The best policy is upfront honesty.

That is exactly it. If I know there is going to be a remint, I'm only going to buy one coin. If it is a limited run, I might buy two or three to trade.

 

So if I buy two or three, because nobody mentioned a remint, then I've wasted money on trader coins.

 

If the intention of the seller is truly that everybody who wants one gets one, a little upfront honesty would help. I buy less coins, more are available for others to purchase!

[+Rockin Roddy]

If it's a matter of fairness to all, why not limit quantities one can buy if there is high demand...or perception thereof?

 

I would like to know up front how many are to be made, many do. It's one of the first questions (if not already stated). I think one should post of the possibility of reminting before sales start.

 

I have seen where some have asked opinion before doing a remint....

[ParentsofSAM]

I think that is an important point is everyone is aware upfront of the re-mint possibility then I would suspect the coin would not sell out as quickly.

 

I too will not buy multiple coins for trade/eBay if I know they will be continuously available. I would have bought only 1 coin. So now 2 other people need to come along and buy my 2 coins I did not buy, the same goes for the 2 coins MustangJoni did not buy and so on and so on.....

 

When a minting number is posted it is an accepted fact that unless other wise stated that is the number of coins available, not the number of coins available this round or number coins available today.

 

I believe the burden lies with the sales outlet for the most part, yes buyer beware but the seller needs to be upfront.

[+MustangJoni]

I think that is an important point is everyone is aware upfront of the re-mint possibility then I would suspect the coin would not sell out as quickly.

 

I too will not buy multiple coins for trade/eBay if I know they will be continuously available. I would have bought only 1 coin. So now 2 other people need to come along and buy my 2 coins I did not buy, the same goes for the 2 coins MustangJoni did not buy and so on and so on.....

 

You are absolutely right about that POS. But since the seller wants everyone who wants their coin to have their coin, that should be fine! Because, after all, it isn't about the money!

[+ScoutingWV]

What you say is what you honor. If you sold the coin and said 150. Then it's 150. Not 150 Blue and 150 Black Nickel. If you said "Up to 1000" and sold 500, you have 500 to go.

 

If you said "2007 FSM Coin" and nothing else. Then everthing you make in 2007 is good, but you can't spill the 2007 version into 2008.

 

If you make it as your signature itme and never said anything to anyone about how many, there is no limit.

 

If you didn't sell it but said 300 and traded. It's 300. If you didn't sell it, didn't trade it and said 300, you only need to annouce you changed your mind.

 

The committment to others is your guide.

 

Well said.

[+PengoFamily]

I think that is an important point is everyone is aware upfront of the re-mint possibility then I would suspect the coin would not sell out as quickly.

 

I too will not buy multiple coins for trade/eBay if I know they will be continuously available. I would have bought only 1 coin. So now 2 other people need to come along and buy my 2 coins I did not buy, the same goes for the 2 coins MustangJoni did not buy and so on and so on.....

 

When a minting number is posted it is an accepted fact that unless other wise stated that is the number of coins available, not the number of coins available this round or number coins available today.

 

I believe the burden lies with the sales outlet for the most part, yes buyer beware but the seller needs to be upfront.

 

I totally agree. For me personally, I like trading. I find it fun to try and trade for those elusive, hard to get coins. It's part of the fun in collecting them too. Yes I do buy some coins because I really like the design but there are some coins that I try and get because of their 'percieved' value....either for my own collection or for trading. I think that if the seller thinks that they will remint a coin if their design does well it should be stated up front.

[+DresselDragons]

This is a great issue to bring up. My thoughts . . . And Practice:

 

1. I try to provide as much disclosure as possible.

2. If I publish a number I stick with that number.

3. If I don't publish a number it is because I want to leave open the possibility of doing a reminting.

4. Sometimes people will ask me how many I am making or will make and I will provide a ballpark number, which again means that I might mint more.

 

The issue seems to be mostly about ebay values. One of the things that is curious is that there is an assumption that there is a very direct correlation between the number minted and the ebay values. It seems to have a lot more to do with the overall look, feel popularity of a coin than minting numbers. I can point to "sold out" Hogwild Coins that had really big mintings and have big ebay prices. I can also point you to coins that have small mintings, are sold out and will go unsold with rather modest starting prices.

 

The bottom line should be disclosure up front.

Very well said MC!

[+tsunrisebey]

Back from town Wow, lot's of interesting comments.

 

My turn; coming from both perspectives here and complete honesty.

 

As a coin purchaser... Personally I don't have a problem with remints most of the time. I've been here long enough to observe how most of the companies selling coins work. I know that certain coin producers are almost always remint and I have no problem with that. I tend to either buy only 1 or trade somewhere down the road, knowing I can easily get one sooner or later and if not, no biggie. It would be nice if producers, whether a company or individual just came out and stated that "remint to be determined due to demand...whatever." some people are saying they want that, so what is the harm in including that statement? As a customer who has also bought more than one of coins (hardly anymore) for future trades, I have been burned by the remint issue. I as a buyer took a risk. I knew 'this' coin would be popular, so I bought 3. I never sold them on ebay but was hoping that they would hold more trade value down the road. I eventually traded one for a nice coin that I didn't have and was saving the last one for another 'harder to get' coin down the road. Then 4 months later, there was a remint. I wasn't happy about it but hey, I took a risk. I'm sure if I hold onto it for a year, the trade value will go up. I suppose I could have sold it on ebay right away but I'm not interested in the reselling part. So, I personally would rather know if remints are possible. Side Note: I don't care if people buy to resell on ebay, it's your business. I'm also calling BS on a couple people I've seen talking about "I collect because I love the design," type comments because I've seen you selling coins on ebay. BUT, I revert back to my comment of, I don't care if you sell/buy on ebay, not my business.

 

Condensed version: Ya, put a statement that says: "we reserve the right to remint" that should take care of any question and then the buyer takes it upon themselves to take a risk for trading or selling purposes.

 

As a Minter/Designer; I've only minted 1 on my own and designed/worked with a company a few times. Quite honestly I hadn't given the remint issue any thought (never planned on doing it) until the Turtle design came about. When the thread started, obviously we (me and TCP) knew it was going to be popular but seriously underestimated how popular. I even bumped up the number by 25 from the original production to "help". We did discuss a remint prior to the actual sale taking place but that was well after production had started. We left that option on the table. Well then the melee ensued and people missed out. I literally got swamped with emails and I still get 2-3 a day, everyday, about people wanting to get these and it's almost a month after the last pre-order. I did post on the thread about a remint and got some thoughts from people, I don't recall anyone being against it but then again maybe some people were afraid to speak up for a number of reasons, I don't know. So, in order to make people happy, a remint was decided on quite quickly, to try to keep the original run's value (trade/$$$), we decided to change the metal (of course) and change up the 'coloring'. It;s tough when you're in the position of making decisions and you're trying to keep everyone happy, it's a no win situation most of the time. Anyhow, I learned alot from that exerience both for myself and for when working with vendors in the future. Address the remint when the coin idea/sample pics/sale is opened up, this leaves room for open dialogue and a decision that the purchaser needs to make based on what they read. Live and learn.

 

I like to think that I usually pretty clear about things but I can see room for improvement on my end and I'm not afraid to admit it. I'm sure I'll make more mistakes down the road but reminting won't be one of them, lol.

 

The only way to make things better for both minters/purchasers is to hash it out in an adult like manner, everyone won't be pleased, but at least we will all be informed.

 

Thanks for the comments all, I'm sure there are quite a few people paying attention and considering what is being written.

 

~tsun

[+AtlantaGal]

The issue seems to be mostly about ebay values.

 

I would expand that to say secondary market value. Ebay plays a part. But trade value is more important, especially in a collectible market. Without the secondary profitable market, reminting wouldn't happen. Even a well-liked coin is definately going to trade for less if it keeps becoming available for remints.

 

What he said, plus...

 

Trading is a huge part of the secondary market. If you buy extras whether to ebay them or trade them or both, then reminting a coin does matter. The trade value (which includes sale value) deminishes with each reminting immediately. In some cases the value corrects itself over time by bouncing back or the desire for a particular coin falls completely flat. As joni mentioned, there's no point in buying more than one if you can't do anything with the extra one.

 

You can't effectively compare coins minted in large numbers in 2005 or early 2006 with coins being minted today. The buying market isn't the same and the trends of your buyer base are not the same. The people who bought coins in 2005 were buying several, all the time, every time. There were simply not that many new coin designs available in a given month. So people bought more of those that were. At least half (or more) of those individuals either don't collect coins any longer or gave up buying altogether. The new collectors who took their place are a different. Today a coin has to compete with 50 or more other coins a month. Totally different ball game.

 

Over time, a combination of the coin design, coin quality and YES the amount minted all contribute to a particular coins value/worth. That won't change.

[+dorkfish]

Here is my angle & how I have always minted coins. I don' t make coins to make tons of money or anything like that. I sell most of my coins for pretty close to what I paid for them. I really enjoy the creating part & reading the feedback from others. I personally want everyone who wants one of my coins to have a chance to get one. I chose to mint more of my version 1 coins when I saw the regular version selling for $50 and more on ebay. I was receiving at least a couple emails every week asking for more. I have minted 1000 of those coins total and I still get requests for them. Those coins are retired now. I chose to make more of my aquarium coin because I had originally made 500 coins and didn't think anyone would care if I made more, 500 is a pretty big number. I think I've made 750 of them now and will stop when I reach 1000, as long as there is a demand for them.

 

If I mint a low number of a coin with no intent to make more I will state that. I guess I kindof feel that if a large number of coins were originally minted, then more coins being minted won't hurt the perceived value by others. I made 750 of my version 1 coin originally and the individuals who purchased the other 250 were extremely happy to finally be able to own one for a low price. I could be wrong, but I don't think the desirability of the coin has gone down because there are 1000 out there.

 

When I started making different coins I order ALOT and now I have inventory. Inventory means I don't have much money to make newer coins, at least until the inventory sells out. Now I don't order so many coins, I order a small amount and remint if they sell fast. I can't afford to sit on thousands of dollars worth of coins and wait for them to sell out months later. I don't announce the quantity of coins I mint because there is a chance I may remint. If a coin sells out fast I let my customers know that I will mint more, the quantity I will be minting, and when they will arrive. But again, if those sell fast I probably will make more. I want all of the people who want my coins to get one, it's that simple. That is the way I have always conducted business. If I notice I start getting lots of emails asking for a coin that is gone, I will probably make a small amount more. But 1000 is the most I will ever make of a coin, usually by then I'm pretty tired of the coin, lol.

 

I realize that people collect coins for different reasons, and there is nothing wrong with that at all. We all play the game differently & I completely respect that. From now on I will be sure to make a note in all of my listings to let folks know that I may mint more coins if there is a desire for them. I have always done everything I can to make every single one of my customers happy and I will continue to do so. I wouldn't want anyone to be upset with me because they purchased a number of coins thinking I wasn't going to make more, only to find out months later more are available. I guess it was naive of me to assume that my customers know how I like to do business. This has all been a huge learning process for me & threads help me out ALOT. They help me understand my customers better & will help in my efforts to make all of my customers happy in the future.

 

I think that' the longest post I've ever posted on the threads. Lol

 

sorry for any typos, it's in my nature

[+Cornerstone4]

The people who are likely to be the most concerned are those who purchase a buttload of one coin for the sake of ebay or to trade - thats their prerogative to do so, but I don't think the market should cater to these people.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about that statement since I am one of "those people." However, I don't think being one of "those people" should mean I am treated with less consideration than someone that is just a collector...but I know others will differ in their opinions on that.

 

I had lot's of extra coins from the "early days". I knew there would be a contstant influx of new collectors, and the older stuff would always be in demand. I purchased extras then, in order to have trading or selling stock in the future. Once, I got burned since I paid high money for a coin that was supposed to be very limited in it's run. Well, once it was delivered, it was beautiful, and a lot of folks wanted them. I was sitting in the drivers seat on that one...until the original minter decided to double the production since so many people were begging for them. I was disappointed since I felt I had the foresight to buy extras. (I also felt I had taken a risk since this coin was easily 7-10 times more expensive that any previous coin.)

 

But, I have been on the other side of the "coin" as well. I had remade my personal coin and used the same dies. I changed the color and the plating on it to differentiate, but I didn't spend money on new dies. As a personal coin, I needed more for my personal use.

 

However, on the "Screw" coins, I have had a lot of folks ask me if I intended to make more. I couldn't see my way clear to remint that coin since I felt it was a "collectible".

 

So, I did the next best thing...we made a new die, for a new screw, for anyone that didn't get a good screw the first time.

[+Hula Bum]

Ok, I'm gonna leave that alone C4.... Just too easy.

 

BOT-What I'm seeing as I read through this is that there are becoming to distinct groups-those that trade and those who don't.

 

I don't really think that ebay is that big of an issue here, there are just a few who buy a whole bunch for this purpose. There are a lot of people here who buy extras to trade, and changing the totals really messes with the trade value.

 

The question again, are the traders becoming the minority? Perhaps it's just where this hobby is headed.

[+Rockin Roddy]

I usually can't afford many of any one coin, but if I know a special coin is coming out, I will save up so I can get a few extra to use for future trades.

[+CachingCoins]

The question again, are the traders becoming the minority? Perhaps it's just where this hobby is headed.

 

I think as a collector you evolve. When I started I didn't know other coin people, I didn't know the coins, I didn't know their meaning. For me, when I started buying it was trackable with Icon only! Now, the coins mean more to me! They have become more than just a shiny, cute, pretty object. I will buy a non-trackable (never, never would have done that at first! ) or I'll buy for other reasons, like a charity or because I know who it is etc. I'm just getting into trading. Now it is more fun than ever & more addictive then ever! I can't wait for the next coinfest!!

[+MustangJoni]

The question again, are the traders becoming the minority? Perhaps it's just where this hobby is headed.

 

I think as a collector you evolve. When I started I didn't know other coin people, I didn't know the coins, I didn't know their meaning. For me, when I started buying it was trackable with Icon only! Now, the coins mean more to me! They have become more than just a shiny, cute, pretty object. I will buy a non-trackable (never, never would have done that at first! ) or I'll buy for other reasons, like a charity or because I know who it is etc. I'm just getting into trading. Now it is more fun than ever & more addictive then ever! I can't wait for the next coinfest!!

I think trading is the best part. I'd rather trade for a coin than buy one. When you trade, you basically make a friend. I like that. I have made some wonderful friends by trading coins. I would hate to see that go away.

[+DresselDragons]

I think trading is the best part. I'd rather trade for a coin than buy one. When you trade, you basically make a friend. I like that. I have made some wonderful friends by trading coins. I would hate to see that go away.

That is so true MJ! I definately enjoy trading much more that buying, because I get to meet so many new people. It is also fun to help out someone that is looking for a particular coin.

[+Pabloturtle]

As a newbie to geocaching and the coin scene I only buy what I like. Usually with the intent of giving it away as a FTF or a surprise, but some are kept for myself.

I understand the concept of collectables where value = demand and quantity, but all collecting is gambling on the market. Makers of coins can chose to do whatever they want. I believe the phrase is "buyer beware."

[+MustangJoni]

As a newbie to geocaching and the coin scene I only buy what I like. Usually with the intent of giving it away as a FTF or a surprise, but some are kept for myself.

I understand the concept of collectables where value = demand and quantity, but all collecting is gambling on the market. Makers of coins can chose to do whatever they want. I believe the phrase is "buyer beware."

You are right about the buyer beware. But you can hedge your bets a little. We are learning about who does and doesn't remint. I keep that in mind when purchasing.

[avroair]

There are a lot of people here who buy extras to trade, and changing the totals really messes with the trade value.

 

The question again, are the traders becoming the minority? Perhaps it's just where this hobby is headed.

 

You are probably right. I trade far more than I sell and I buy even less. I figure I already have tons of coins to trade, so why buy more to add to the clutter! Maybe that's a topic for another thread. Are you a trader or a seller?

[+Hula Bum]

As a newbie to geocaching and the coin scene I only buy what I like. Usually with the intent of giving it away as a FTF or a surprise, but some are kept for myself.

I understand the concept of collectables where value = demand and quantity, but all collecting is gambling on the market. Makers of coins can chose to do whatever they want. I believe the phrase is "buyer beware."

You are right about the buyer beware. But you can hedge your bets a little. We are learning about who does and doesn't remint. I keep that in mind when purchasing.

 

We are learning, yes, but not everyone is as on top of it. I feel bad for the newbies who haven't a clue, or even those who have been around and don't scour these boards.

[+BVnLJ]

I would like to add though that trading seems to be only for the "in crowd". I have attempted four times to trade different coins and have had no responce back. What I had to trade at the time was the FSM, Earth Turtles, and now Coin Collector, and I was responding to what they wanted for what they had, so the traders appear to only want to deal with their friends. So be it. I know I won't be trying to do trades any longer.

 

I like MANY others here buy and then sell on ebay. Like POS said, this is one way to obtain coins that I truly like and plan on keeping, either to put in caches as I like to do, or just keep, look at and play with like Scrooge.

Edited August 21, 2007 by bvnlj

[+Hula Bum]

I would like to add though that trading seems to be only for the "in crowd". I have attempted four times to trade different coins and have had no responce back. What I had to trade at the time was the FSM, Earth Turtles, and now Coin Collector, and I was responding to what they wanted for what they had, so the traders appear to only want to deal with their friends. So be it. I know I won't be trying to do trades any longer.

 

I like MANY others here buy and then sell on ebay. Like POS said, this is one way to obtain coins that I truly like and plan on keeping, either to put in caches as I like to do, or just keep, look at and play with like Scrooge.

 

I hope this is just a case of your mail ending up in the junk folder or that they just haven't had time to respond. It would be really sad if it was anything else. If they are only dealing with their "friends", why would they bother posting in the trade thread?

[+tsunrisebey]

I would like to add though that trading seems to be only for the "in crowd". I have attempted four times to trade different coins and have had no responce back. What I had to trade at the time was the FSM, Earth Turtles, and now Coin Collector, and I was responding to what they wanted for what they had, so the traders appear to only want to deal with their friends. So be it. I know I won't be trying to do trades any longer.

 

I like MANY others here buy and then sell on ebay. Like POS said, this is one way to obtain coins that I truly like and plan on keeping, either to put in caches as I like to do, or just keep, look at and play with like Scrooge.

 

Don't give up, and really, who is the "in crowd"? I've been turned down for trades, not answered back, and even been turned down. I've also been slow to get back to some people or sometimes on rare ocassions, not recieved emails at all. The people who I have traded with were alll strangers at one time, some have become friends, and some were just a trade, never to be heard from again. I don't trade very often because I don't normally buy enough coins to trade. Keep your chin up

[+stepshep]

A gecoin is a piece of metal, and not usually a truly expensive metal. Unless the coin seller states: "This coin will never be minted again, this is the only run, after this the dies will be retired." Then it seems to be fair game for a remint. Just because a seller does not state: "This coin could possibly be reminted." Does not mean it will not be reminted. It would be nice if lawyers wrote up every sale page, but they don't.

[+BVnLJ]

But I think it depends of the maker of the coin. Crakes coins are ALWAYS good for trades or resale. So are CM's & CB's. Their sunburst and letterboxing coins are still doing great on ebay. And now of course we have Tsun's coins that are becoming just as desirable. A lot can be said for the sellers of coins who are perfectionists and put out only quality coins, the buyers realize that and will continue to buy even if the amount minted is high. Just my opinion

[+Cap'n YB]

Personally, I would like to see more effort put into matching first runs to demand with presales and protecting first mintings with sequentially numbered coins. Let me elaborate.

 

Presales would help the seller gain early commitments for a fixed quantity of coins. Additionally, this market intellignece would help establish the level of interest in a coin design and establish the likely market demand. Then the seller can plan additional coin quantities above demand based on their risk adversity for the extra coins.

This would keep their base of loyal and committed buyers more satisfied since they would be more likely to get receive the coins they desire instead of perching like vultures on sale day or missing the sale.

 

Next topic, consumers who have a distaste for reminting recognize the weaknesses of the geocoin market and would like protection for their investment. Therefore, more of an effort should be made by the sellers to differentiate a first run geocoin from a reminted geocoin. Similar to the publishing industry. Personally, I like a serialized number in addition to the tracking number. (TNT Dragon coins) But, I also find the use of different colors or metals acceptable (Dressels Dragons) if they are used sparingly.

[+TMOCM]

The issue seems to be mostly about ebay values.

 

I would expand that to say secondary market value. Ebay plays a part. But trade value is more important, especially in a collectible market. Without the secondary profitable market, reminting wouldn't happen. Even a well-liked coin is definately going to trade for less if it keeps becoming available for remints.

 

What he said, plus...

 

Trading is a huge part of the secondary market. If you buy extras whether to ebay them or trade them or both, then reminting a coin does matter. The trade value (which includes sale value) deminishes with each reminting immediately. In some cases the value corrects itself over time by bouncing back or the desire for a particular coin falls completely flat. As joni mentioned, there's no point in buying more than one if you can't do anything with the extra one.

 

You can't effectively compare coins minted in large numbers in 2005 or early 2006 with coins being minted today. The buying market isn't the same and the trends of your buyer base are not the same. The people who bought coins in 2005 were buying several, all the time, every time. There were simply not that many new coin designs available in a given month. So people bought more of those that were. At least half (or more) of those individuals either don't collect coins any longer or gave up buying altogether. The new collectors who took their place are a different. Today a coin has to compete with 50 or more other coins a month. Totally different ball game.

 

Over time, a combination of the coin design, coin quality and YES the amount minted all contribute to a particular coins value/worth. That won't change.

 

Well said, I totally agree with both of these posts. Most coins offered for sale from mid 2005 when I began collecting, listed the quantity minted for each metal, I took those numbers to the bank, meaning I knew no other coins were going to be minted and they weren't. Many times I based my purchase quantity on the number of coins minted. Usually I would buy one coin for my collection and then one or two more for trading if I thought the coin might have good trade value. Knowing I had 2 or 3 coins out of a total minting of 500 meant I could probably trade for a coin I really wanted for my collection. Now if the coin in question were to be reminted, then the trade value of that coin most of the time has been reduced. These days, I only purchase one of each new geocoin coming out if I like it, trading has really died down this year.