Females - Solo Caching, how to stay safe

[+Goonies Oosterhout]

(...)if anyone called me "the wiffie", he'd get his teeth handed back to him in an omelet.(...)

I love girls that are good with eggs. Thanks for naming the key issue on this lingering off-topic discussion: cultural panic through sensation-ridden mass media. Can't I get an invite for your 'furthermore'? I really enjoy your writing.

Would I have succumbed (is that a word?) to this cultural panic, I wouldn't have met a lot of great people. My girlfriend (and soon-to-be-my-wife) and I have always enjoyed hitch-hiking. We visited Ireland and France this way. Had a lot of fun, met the greatest people. Now we have a 'car' ('79 VW bay window bus) which broke down last summer on the french highway, in the middle of nowhere. It was getting dark. About 2 km away, there was a little village. I stayed with the car, my girlfriend walked towards the village to get some help (or a phone, we had no reception there). Why did she go? She looks sweet and understands french better then I do. I, on the other hand, don't look sweet and my french isn't that good.

She knocked on the door of some farm, and the people there helped us out. After half an hour (I was getting a bit worried) some guy came running up to me, he was the son of the family, told me my girlfriend was at their farm, and they wouldn't let her walk back because she had to drink tea with them, and he told me to come with him to eat and drink with them. The car could wait.

 

We ended up staying a night and a day with them, the car was picked up by a road service, but wouldn't work again (we needed a new engine). The friendly people gave us a ride to the nearest train station, we wanted to take our bikes, so they used our bicycle-carrier to bring them along. I told them I'd come and collect the carrier a week later (I had to be in France again for a scouts camp). We still write with those people. When I came to collect my bicycle-carrier, it felt like coming home a bit.

 

Have a little faith in people...

 

Back to the OP: Being Dutch, I'm a neighbour to the Germans. I've never met a people more friendly than the Germans. Hospitable, helpfull, friendly. A friend of mine was having a nap on a couch on someone's driveway there. We were having coffee at a bar, since we woke up that morning in open air on a two-day hike. The night before, a biker-look-a-like-guy drove us from this bar to a place to sleep. He told us it was a safe place, and brought us dry wood for a campfire, then enjoyed some beers with us.

Anyway, this morning, my friend had this nap on this couch on this driveway. He didn't want to go into the bar with us. The person owning the driveway, who put the couch out with the trash, drove out, passing my friend on the couch. He did not tell him to get off his driveway, he invited him to sleep/eat in his house!

 

This is not just a situation on it's own: this is the way a lot of Germans work. They're the friendliest folks I know, along with the Irish. They don't arm themselves to cope with American visitors, why would you, the American visitor, investigate buying knives or pepper spray to arm yourself against them? Just get a reliable cell phone in case you fall and can't get up.

You're in Europe now, act European...

 

(edit: just trying to improve my spelling. You think my english is bad? You should read my ancient Greek!)

 

[i also read your potty language, and edited it out. -- Moderator]

Edited August 28, 2007 by Keystone

[+mertat]

I also leave an itinerary at home and with a friend or relative. Since my caching style is rather fluid, I don’t necessarily hit all the caches on the list or in the order they are on the list. So I call my answering machine and leave a message detailing arrival time and cache name. When I’m done, I call and leave another message on my answering machine with my departure time and next cache I plan to do. The person I’ve left my itinerary with knows I do this. When I get home, that person gets a phone call.

 

I think technology is going to help make this more effective really soon. I think it is reasonable that most of us will have an internet enabled device that we carry with us in the near future. Look how effective it would be to track your whereabouts if you were logging a simple found it note and the time (of course you would go back and edit it later to include your story) on the cache page once you find it. So, all you would need to say is that you have gone caching and you will be logging your finds in real time.

 

If there's a concern that something has gone awry, you pull up the persons profile and you've got coordinates and the time visited.

 

Good point! In fact, I know someone who logs his finds as he goes. Think I'll have to have a talk with him to see how he goes about it.

[+flask]

 

Half this thread now sounds like some bad advice I got. "Why bother with dead bolts? If they want in they are going to break in?" I didn't respond. Later when I was out from under their thumb I installed dead bolts and my insurance company thanked me by giving me a lower premium. Must be something to the things after all even if "s*** happens anyway".

 

no point in dead bolts if you have french doors.

[+Renegade Knight]

...no point in dead bolts if you have french doors.

 

Somtimes that's all you need to keep the honest honest. Plus if I miss a door, my discount doens't kick in. Those pesky insurance inspectors do check.

[+flask]

...no point in dead bolts if you have french doors.

 

Somtimes that's all you need to keep the honest honest. Plus if I miss a door, my discount doens't kick in. Those pesky insurance inspectors do check.

 

i wouldn't know where to put a dead bolt in a french door. oh. is that the knob thingy?

 

gah. much easier to break the glass. nobody in my neighborhood would notice the sound of glass breaking, what with all the shelling and such.

[+kevnjenn]

 

Regarding the earlier questionnaire--the homeless guy, teenager, biker dude, midnight knock--there are actually two opposed, stereotypical responses to each. One says, "I would fear those individuals based on my prejudice that they are dangerous." The other says, "I would refuse to fear those individuals precisely because they're victims of unjust prejudice." Both are wrong. The right answer is, "I'd evaluate the situation and rely on my senses, instincts and good judgement."

 

regarding the questionnaire: in four of the examples, i am the person being approached. in the other two, i am the host of the party and the sick woman with the wrecked car.

 

it is possible where i live to get mugged or beaten or killed. i don't choose to worry about it. when (and you will notice my use of the word "when") i have met people who intend to do me harm, i respond firmly and in a way that has caused then to turn and run. i don't know why you all seem to think my abridged biography is weird. i don't ride without a helmet. i don't climb without a harness.

 

if i had stayed off of that mountain, i wouldn't have been struck by lightning. if i'd stayed off the road i wouldn't have been run over. if i hadn't had a routine colonoscopy i wouldn't have needed that ambulance.

 

i don't blame the mountain, the road, or the colonoscopy. i do not believe i should have stayed home.

 

there is much about my world that is already dangerous and frightening. if i care to read the statistics, i should have been dead by now. the world isn't bigger or more dangerous than it used to be; we simply have access to more sensational information.

 

logging accidents. mine explosions. poisoned groundwater. cholera. black death. infant mortality. civil war. wildfires. accidental drownings. volcanoes.

 

i can't be bothered to be afraid. i feel sorry for people caught in the cultural panic. good news doen't sell ads. bicycle safety doesn't seem to translate smoothly into primetime TV. flip through your channels. how many shows do you see in any given hour about proper use of climbing gear? violent crime?

 

i walk alone, and in the dark. city or country. i talk to strangers. most of the time the people i meet are friendly and generous. good people are everywhere if you're looking for them. geocaching alone and unsuspicious is a gift.

 

you might be afraid to go with the little man on the bike, alone and unarmed. but i was standing beside him in late afternoon sunlight under a cobalt blue sky, looking out over the entire city of montreal. it is a saturday afternoon at four o'clock and all the church bells begin to ring. he motions to the trail below us, into the woods.

 

"do you want to see where it goes?" he says.

 

"YES! i want to see where it goes!"

 

i want to see where it goes.

 

i am not afraid.

 

"A ship is safe at harbor, but that's not why it was built." - last fortune cookie I opened.

[+Renegade Knight]

...i wouldn't know where to put a dead bolt in a french door. oh. is that the knob thingy?

 

gah. much easier to break the glass. nobody in my neighborhood would notice the sound of glass breaking, what with all the shelling and such.

 

That changes everthing. With the shelling and all, I'd break any remaining glass in french doors just to have the novelty of doing it myself.

[+Renegade Knight]

..."A ship is safe at harbor, but that's not why it was built." - last fortune cookie I opened.

 

Ships have life jackets and emergency boats don't they?

[+flask]

...i wouldn't know where to put a dead bolt in a french door. oh. is that the knob thingy?

 

gah. much easier to break the glass. nobody in my neighborhood would notice the sound of glass breaking, what with all the shelling and such.

 

That changes everthing. With the shelling and all, I'd break any remaining glass in french doors just to have the novelty of doing it myself.

 

the shelling doesn't actually happen at my house. it's down the street. at my house, we have golfers, who can take out french doors effectively themselves. ever since they moved the tee back, wild slices on the 7th tend to end up in my yard, if not my house.

 

artillery has never broken glass in my neighborhood that i know of, but it's plenty loud when i get going.

[+Big Bear TC]

I don't know why I keep coming into this thread.

 

Your like me ready to smack someone down if they get out of line. Right Flask.

[+Big Bear TC]

Okay let me say something here. I am very proud of the ladies that are willing to go caching on their own. Some have no choice but go alone. I'm in the military and I will be going to some schooling on the East coast. My family won't be able to go but I will be taking a laptop, a GPS, backpack, my knife that I always carry, and walking stick. I grew up near East St. Louis. I have walked the streets there which is not fun when you are a white female by yourself. Lets see South side of Chicago, South side of Milwaukee, and even the streets in Sarajevo Bosnia. All of these places by myself. It is how you carry yourself and most of these women here do carry them selves very well. My husband is very protective of his family and he has seen a lot of bad stuff in his life with the military. But he knows I can take care of myself and we are teaching our kids the same thing.

So some of these men out there thinks they need to protect us ladies needs to get out of the stone age of the only place for a woman is in the kitchen and bedroom. If you guys would like to take a challenge I think a good amount of the women can take you. If I can't do it with fists, feet, biting pulling hair I will pick something up and beat you with it. I will fight to my death to save myself or a family member no matter if it is human or animal.

Remember this is about caching alone and being a woman. I respect for any person that will do that. I know guys that can't find themselves out of their backyard more less hunt for a cache in the woods. These guys couldn't even fight like a girl to defend.

 

So all I have to say is don't under estimate the size of the package you could be very surpised on what you get.

[+flask]

just to clarify:

 

i've mentioned the shelling once or twice, but what think i haven't explained is that i live very near to a national guard firing range. they fire small arms and large artillery. those boys are noisy boys. good neighbors, though. they keep out the riffraff.

[nonaeroterraqueous]

The LED Incapacitator

 

If this works as well as they claim, it could make for some excellent self-defense.

[+Big Bear TC]

just to clarify:

 

i've mentioned the shelling once or twice, but what think i haven't explained is that i live very near to a national guard firing range. they fire small arms and large artillery. those boys are noisy boys. good neighbors, though. they keep out the riffraff.

 

Hi Flask. Those guys can make a lot of noise when they want can't they.

[+The Vikings]

What a terrible world some of you guys must be living in. Obviously mostly in USA and Germany. In other parts of the world we would never even think about bringing weapons with us when going bush or other places. It sounds totally un-real!

[CoyoteRed]

What a terrible world some of you guys must be living in. Obviously mostly in USA and Germany. In other parts of the world we would never even think about bringing weapons with us when going bush or other places. It sounds totally un-real!

While I'm sure I'm simply responding to a snide remark, I'll answer as if it were genuine.

 

Ever watch "Survivorman?" (No, not the "Man vs Wild" what has been proven to be staged. We thought that one was hokey from the get-go and was promptly deleted from the Tivo schedule.) Anyway, the host Les Stroud is the MacGyver of survival experts. (As opposed to "survivialist" which has a different meaning.) He is dropped off in various places to last 1 week with whatever he had on him or he can scrounge. Usually, he has his multitool and a harmonica--and his camera gear as he films everything himself save the beginning and the end. Sometimes he has a single match. Usually, he has no weapons. One episode was in the Canadian wilderness and he was required to carry a gun to defend against polar bear. Another was in the jungles of Ecuador I believe and was given a spear to defend himself from big cats.

 

So, you see, there are places where even a survival expert dare not venture without being armed.

 

Also, as folks who venture outside the urban environs, we have encountered situations where a weapon more lethal than a 2 pound hickory hiking stick would have been desired.

 

Here's a story of woman and some children that where attacked by a rabid raccoon. That's just one that jumps out at me at the moment. I'm sure a brief search can bring up scores of similar stories from all over the nation from similar situations.

 

...and that's just the wildlife.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

What a terrible world some of you guys must be living in. Obviously mostly in USA and Germany. In other parts of the world we would never even think about bringing weapons with us when going bush or other places. It sounds totally un-real!

While I'm sure I'm simply responding to a snide remark, I'll answer as if it were genuine.

 

Ever watch "Survivorman?" (No, not the "Man vs Wild" what has been proven to be staged. We thought that one was hokey from the get-go and was promptly deleted from the Tivo schedule.) Anyway, the host Les Stroud is the MacGyver of survival experts. (As opposed to "survivialist" which has a different meaning.) He is dropped off in various places to last 1 week with whatever he had on him or he can scrounge. Usually, he has his multitool and a harmonica--and his camera gear as he films everything himself save the beginning and the end. Sometimes he has a single match. Usually, he has no weapons. One episode was in the Canadian wilderness and he was required to carry a gun to defend against polar bear. Another was in the jungles of Ecuador I believe and was given a spear to defend himself from big cats.

 

So, you see, there are places where even a survival expert dare not venture without being armed.

 

Also, as folks who venture outside the urban environs, we have encountered situations where a weapon more lethal than a 2 pound hickory hiking stick would have been desired.

 

Here's a story of woman and some children that where attacked by a rabid raccoon. That's just one that jumps out at me at the moment. I'm sure a brief search can bring up scores of similar stories from all over the nation from similar situations.

 

...and that's just the wildlife.

Just one note about encountering rabid animals: we live in a wilderness area in the mountains of Western Maryland, in an area loosely but very widely known (in fact, known worldwide, since the anthrax/mail incident of 2001 and the focus on two local ponds just up the road from our house) as the Frederick Watershed, which has been classified by CDC as an area where rabies is endemic among the local wildlife. We regularly encounter rabid groundhogs, raccoons and bats (I regularly find dead rabid bats in our chicken pen) and even an occasional rabid fox when hiking in our local forests, and we never carry any kind of weapon other than an occasional makeshift walking stick. We have even been rushed by rabid raccoons in our own yard, while collecting the mail or while putting out the garbage. In fact, my wife Sue was rushed by a rabid raccoon several months ago at night while putting out the garbage while barefoot and wearing shorts. The poor confused animal appeared out of the darkness and ran toward her at a great rate of speed and passed between her bare lower legs and feet, with his fur just brushing her skin. Our experience is that most rabid animals are very passive and slow, and with the few that display the "aggressive" form of rabies, if they do rush you, well, there is usually NO time to reach for any kind of weapon, much less use it, and all you can really do is step aside out of the way or hop, skip, jump or run a bit to try to get out of the way.

 

BTW, our area is also classified by CDC as an area where bubonic plague (i.e., caused by the organism Yersinia pestis) and hantavirus are endemic as well, primarily in the rodent population. West Nile virus is also endemic here among large predatory birds and some smaller species of birds.

[+Goonies Oosterhout]

In fact, my wife Sue was rushed by a rabid raccoon several months ago at night while putting out the garbage while barefoot and wearing shorts.

Did you let your wife Sue out at night, dressed like that and alone? That's just asking for trouble...

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

In fact, my wife Sue was rushed by a rabid raccoon several months ago at night while putting out the garbage while barefoot and wearing shorts.

Did you let your wife Sue out at night, dressed like that and alone? That's just asking for trouble...

Did I "let her"? I am not sure how your life works, but in my life and my world, I have no desire to control my wife's behavior, nor does she have any desire to control mine. And, as for going outside (we live in a wilderness wooded area in the mountains) at night barefoot and wearing shorts, I also venture outside regularly day and night -- even when taking my elderly beagle out for a 2 AM pee run -- barefoot and wearing only shorts.

 

And, taking a closer look at your words, what kind of trouble would that be asking for? I have been in many tropical areas of the USA, particularly in Florida, parts of Louisiana and the Southwest, where people even in suburban neighborhoods and in crowded urban areas regularly venture outdoors both day and night barefoot and wearing only shorts and a T-shirt, and I have spent time in villages in southern India and Nicaragua where most people wear even less than that, and minus perhaps the T-shirt, at all times during the day and night.

 

I suspect that you may have a inflated perception of the dangers of being outdoors or of being outdoors barefoot or in shorts, or maybe, of the dangers of being alive...

[+sbell111]

In fact, my wife Sue was rushed by a rabid raccoon several months ago at night while putting out the garbage while barefoot and wearing shorts.

Did you let your wife Sue out at night, dressed like that and alone? That's just asking for trouble...

Did I "let her"? I am not sure how your life works, but in my life and my world, I have no desire to control my wife's behavior, nor does she have any desire to control mine. ...

 

I suspect that you may have a inflated perception of the dangers of being outdoors or of being outdoors barefoot or in shorts, or maybe, of the dangers of being alive...

I'm pretty sure that Goonies was kidding. Edited August 30, 2007 by sbell111

[+Goonies Oosterhout]

In fact, my wife Sue was rushed by a rabid raccoon several months ago at night while putting out the garbage while barefoot and wearing shorts.

Did you let your wife Sue out at night, dressed like that and alone? That's just asking for trouble...

Did I "let her"? I am not sure how your life works, but in my life and my world, I have no desire to control my wife's behavior, nor does she have any desire to control mine. ...

 

I suspect that you may have a inflated perception of the dangers of being outdoors or of being outdoors barefoot or in shorts, or maybe, of the dangers of being alive...

I'm pretty sure that Goonies was kidding.

I'm pretty sure that sbell was right... I'm sorry, but I'm not into smileys... Edited August 30, 2007 by Goonies Oosterhout

[+Renegade Knight]

...In other parts of the world we would never even think about bringing weapons with us when going bush or other places. It sounds totally un-real!

 

A knife is handy as heck for a lot of purposes. It's a tool. So is a gun. Humans are the master of tools. A lot of people are so afraid of the tool. So much so that it, has mastered them.

 

When it comes to harm, a rock will also do and they have been used to bash in a head or two throughout history. Rocks are not as handy as a knife. I can't gut a fish with a rock, and I'm not good enough to chip my own knife from obsidian.

 

You can't actually remove weapons from the equation. Some shouldn't be. I use my pocket knife almost daily. It's handy.

[+Big Bear TC]

What a terrible world some of you guys must be living in. Obviously mostly in USA and Germany. In other parts of the world we would never even think about bringing weapons with us when going bush or other places. It sounds totally un-real!

 

Do you carry a knife with you? I'm sorry you think the rest of the world is bad. But its not. I have had bad experinces with my life. And I told myself it would NEVER happen again. I want to get my concelled weapon permit here in North Dakota, but I just haven't found the time.

There are cruel people every where. I will protect my family and friends with my life. Most Americans feel that way to family and friends if they are right in the mind. But if I was going into the bush in your area I will be carrying a knife that is all there is to it. I will carry my knife with me everywhere I go caching. I have it even when I go caching with family.

[+Ambrosia]

What a terrible world some of you guys must be living in. Obviously mostly in USA and Germany. In other parts of the world we would never even think about bringing weapons with us when going bush or other places. It sounds totally un-real!

While I'm sure I'm simply responding to a snide remark, I'll answer as if it were genuine.

 

Ever watch "Survivorman?" (No, not the "Man vs Wild" what has been proven to be staged. We thought that one was hokey from the get-go and was promptly deleted from the Tivo schedule.) Anyway, the host Les Stroud is the MacGyver of survival experts. (As opposed to "survivialist" which has a different meaning.) He is dropped off in various places to last 1 week with whatever he had on him or he can scrounge. Usually, he has his multitool and a harmonica--and his camera gear as he films everything himself save the beginning and the end. Sometimes he has a single match. Usually, he has no weapons. One episode was in the Canadian wilderness and he was required to carry a gun to defend against polar bear. Another was in the jungles of Ecuador I believe and was given a spear to defend himself from big cats.

 

So, you see, there are places where even a survival expert dare not venture without being armed.

 

Also, as folks who venture outside the urban environs, we have encountered situations where a weapon more lethal than a 2 pound hickory hiking stick would have been desired.

 

Here's a story of woman and some children that where attacked by a rabid raccoon. That's just one that jumps out at me at the moment. I'm sure a brief search can bring up scores of similar stories from all over the nation from similar situations.

 

...and that's just the wildlife.

Oh. My. Goodness.

 

 

THE SKY IS FALLING!

 

Everybody, run for your lives!!!

 

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

(...)if anyone called me "the wiffie", he'd get his teeth handed back to him in an omelet.(...)

I love girls that are good with eggs. Thanks for naming the key issue on this lingering off-topic discussion: cultural panic through sensation-ridden mass media. Can't I get an invite for your 'furthermore'? I really enjoy your writing.

Would I have succumbed (is that a word?) to this cultural panic, I wouldn't have met a lot of great people. My girlfriend (and soon-to-be-my-wife) and I have always enjoyed hitch-hiking. We visited Ireland and France this way. Had a lot of fun, met the greatest people. Now we have a 'car' ('79 VW bay window bus) which broke down last summer on the french highway, in the middle of nowhere. It was getting dark. About 2 km away, there was a little village. I stayed with the car, my girlfriend walked towards the village to get some help (or a phone, we had no reception there). Why did she go? She looks sweet and understands french better then I do. I, on the other hand, don't look sweet and my french isn't that good.

She knocked on the door of some farm, and the people there helped us out. After half an hour (I was getting a bit worried) some guy came running up to me, he was the son of the family, told me my girlfriend was at their farm, and they wouldn't let her walk back because she had to drink tea with them, and he told me to come with him to eat and drink with them. The car could wait.

 

We ended up staying a night and a day with them, the car was picked up by a road service, but wouldn't work again (we needed a new engine). The friendly people gave us a ride to the nearest train station, we wanted to take our bikes, so they used our bicycle-carrier to bring them along. I told them I'd come and collect the carrier a week later (I had to be in France again for a scouts camp). We still write with those people. When I came to collect my bicycle-carrier, it felt like coming home a bit.

 

Have a little faith in people...

 

Back to the OP: Being Dutch, I'm a neighbour to the Germans. I've never met a people more friendly than the Germans. Hospitable, helpfull, friendly. A friend of mine was having a nap on a couch on someone's driveway there. We were having coffee at a bar, since we woke up that morning in open air on a two-day hike. The night before, a biker-look-a-like-guy drove us from this bar to a place to sleep. He told us it was a safe place, and brought us dry wood for a campfire, then enjoyed some beers with us.

Anyway, this morning, my friend had this nap on this couch on this driveway. He didn't want to go into the bar with us. The person owning the driveway, who put the couch out with the trash, drove out, passing my friend on the couch. He did not tell him to get off his driveway, he invited him to sleep/eat in his house!

 

This is not just a situation on it's own: this is the way a lot of Germans work. They're the friendliest folks I know, along with the Irish. They don't arm themselves to cope with American visitors, why would you, the American visitor, investigate buying knives or pepper spray to arm yourself against them? Just get a reliable cell phone in case you fall and can't get up.

You're in Europe now, act European...

 

(edit: just trying to improve my spelling. You think my english is bad? You should read my ancient Greek!)

 

[i also read your potty language, and edited it out. -- Moderator]

Beautiful post! Thanks!

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

What a terrible world some of you guys must be living in. Obviously mostly in USA and Germany. In other parts of the world we would never even think about bringing weapons with us when going bush or other places. It sounds totally un-real!

While I'm sure I'm simply responding to a snide remark, I'll answer as if it were genuine.

 

Ever watch "Survivorman?" (No, not the "Man vs Wild" what has been proven to be staged. We thought that one was hokey from the get-go and was promptly deleted from the Tivo schedule.) Anyway, the host Les Stroud is the MacGyver of survival experts. (As opposed to "survivialist" which has a different meaning.) He is dropped off in various places to last 1 week with whatever he had on him or he can scrounge. Usually, he has his multitool and a harmonica--and his camera gear as he films everything himself save the beginning and the end. Sometimes he has a single match. Usually, he has no weapons. One episode was in the Canadian wilderness and he was required to carry a gun to defend against polar bear. Another was in the jungles of Ecuador I believe and was given a spear to defend himself from big cats.

 

So, you see, there are places where even a survival expert dare not venture without being armed.

 

Also, as folks who venture outside the urban environs, we have encountered situations where a weapon more lethal than a 2 pound hickory hiking stick would have been desired.

 

Here's a story of woman and some children that where attacked by a rabid raccoon. That's just one that jumps out at me at the moment. I'm sure a brief search can bring up scores of similar stories from all over the nation from similar situations.

 

...and that's just the wildlife.

Oh. My. Goodness.

 

 

THE SKY IS FALLING!

 

Everybody, run for your lives!!!

 

[CoyoteRed]

What a terrible world some of you guys must be living in. Obviously mostly in USA and Germany. In other parts of the world we would never even think about bringing weapons with us when going bush or other places. It sounds totally un-real!

While I'm sure I'm simply responding to a snide remark, I'll answer as if it were genuine.

 

Ever watch "Survivorman?" (No, not the "Man vs Wild" what has been proven to be staged. We thought that one was hokey from the get-go and was promptly deleted from the Tivo schedule.) Anyway, the host Les Stroud is the MacGyver of survival experts. (As opposed to "survivialist" which has a different meaning.) He is dropped off in various places to last 1 week with whatever he had on him or he can scrounge. Usually, he has his multitool and a harmonica--and his camera gear as he films everything himself save the beginning and the end. Sometimes he has a single match. Usually, he has no weapons. One episode was in the Canadian wilderness and he was required to carry a gun to defend against polar bear. Another was in the jungles of Ecuador I believe and was given a spear to defend himself from big cats.

 

So, you see, there are places where even a survival expert dare not venture without being armed.

 

Also, as folks who venture outside the urban environs, we have encountered situations where a weapon more lethal than a 2 pound hickory hiking stick would have been desired.

 

Here's a story of woman and some children that where attacked by a rabid raccoon. That's just one that jumps out at me at the moment. I'm sure a brief search can bring up scores of similar stories from all over the nation from similar situations.

 

...and that's just the wildlife.

Oh. My. Goodness.

 

 

THE SKY IS FALLING!

 

Everybody, run for your lives!!!

 

 

Yeah. One extreme to another. Snide remarks from all directions.

 

EDIT TO ADD: Some observations. Take it for what it is.

 

After take a couple of steps back from the forums this time something was made very clear, but I don't know why I didn't see it before. Maybe before I was gone, not just a light and less frequent poster.

 

The thing that struck me was polarization. Folks really tend to polarize everything here. I made a comment about someone pretty much saying anyone arming themselves was over the top and the response was I thought the sky was falling. Hardly.

 

In this thread alone folks have either taken a devil-may-care attitude where nothing can hurt them or they've taken a semi-paranoid, bunkering attitude where only the fittest (gender) may survive. If anyone is anywhere near the middle they are seen by either side as in the other camp.

 

Here's a little real-world story that kind of equates: I get some exercise by walking around the neighborhood. Not so much any more as we have a new treadmill and the heat. But before I'd walk 3 or 4 miles 4 or 7 days a week. Walking the neighborhood is boring so I listen to audiobooks.

 

On at least 5 occasions I've been charged by loose dogs. Most were barking and snarling. Some don't. I can hear them approach because I don't have my volume turned up. Why? Because I've been charged by dogs. Fortunately, most dogs are cowards and as soon as you face them they stop the charge. The only weapon I've ever carried was a flash when I walked at night. I've used it to swing on them. I don't carry a gun even though I both own one and have a license to legally carry it.

 

Now, you apply this same scenario to some of the folks in this threads you'd have some who would turn up the volume and whistle dixie. Those would be the ones that got bitten. The others would carry a big stick, bear spray, and maybe a shotgun. Those would be the ones that were looked at as real kooks.

 

Me? I know there is a threat. No, the sky is not falling, but I'm not going to turn up the volume and pretend I won't ever get bitten. I won't go packing heat as that is, IMHO, a gross over-reaction.

 

As a side note, the only pitbull I've ever encountered on my walks was the most sweet dog out of all of them. You might remember Sissy's posts about him from a few months ago.

 

The point is, there is a perfectly reasonable position somewhere in the middle which isn't part of any extreme.

Edited August 30, 2007 by CoyoteRed

[+Ambrosia]

What a terrible world some of you guys must be living in. Obviously mostly in USA and Germany. In other parts of the world we would never even think about bringing weapons with us when going bush or other places. It sounds totally un-real!

While I'm sure I'm simply responding to a snide remark, I'll answer as if it were genuine.

 

Ever watch "Survivorman?" (No, not the "Man vs Wild" what has been proven to be staged. We thought that one was hokey from the get-go and was promptly deleted from the Tivo schedule.) Anyway, the host Les Stroud is the MacGyver of survival experts. (As opposed to "survivialist" which has a different meaning.) He is dropped off in various places to last 1 week with whatever he had on him or he can scrounge. Usually, he has his multitool and a harmonica--and his camera gear as he films everything himself save the beginning and the end. Sometimes he has a single match. Usually, he has no weapons. One episode was in the Canadian wilderness and he was required to carry a gun to defend against polar bear. Another was in the jungles of Ecuador I believe and was given a spear to defend himself from big cats.

 

So, you see, there are places where even a survival expert dare not venture without being armed.

 

Also, as folks who venture outside the urban environs, we have encountered situations where a weapon more lethal than a 2 pound hickory hiking stick would have been desired.

 

Here's a story of woman and some children that where attacked by a rabid raccoon. That's just one that jumps out at me at the moment. I'm sure a brief search can bring up scores of similar stories from all over the nation from similar situations.

 

...and that's just the wildlife.

Oh. My. Goodness.

 

 

THE SKY IS FALLING!

 

Everybody, run for your lives!!!

 

 

Yeah. One extreme to another. Snide remarks from all directions.

 

EDIT TO ADD: Some observations. Take it for what it is.

 

After take a couple of steps back from the forums this time something was made very clear, but I don't know why I didn't see it before. Maybe before I was gone, not just a light and less frequent poster.

 

The thing that struck me was polarization. Folks really tend to polarize everything here. I made a comment about someone pretty much saying anyone arming themselves was over the top and the response was I thought the sky was falling. Hardly.

 

In this thread alone folks have either taken a devil-may-care attitude where nothing can hurt them or they've taken a semi-paranoid, bunkering attitude where only the fittest (gender) may survive. If anyone is anywhere near the middle they are seen by either side as in the other camp.

 

Here's a little real-world story that kind of equates: I get some exercise by walking around the neighborhood. Not so much any more as we have a new treadmill and the heat. But before I'd walk 3 or 4 miles 4 or 7 days a week. Walking the neighborhood is boring so I listen to audiobooks.

 

On at least 5 occasions I've been charged by loose dogs. Most were barking and snarling. Some don't. I can hear them approach because I don't have my volume turned up. Why? Because I've been charged by dogs. Fortunately, most dogs are cowards and as soon as you face them they stop the charge. The only weapon I've ever carried was a flash when I walked at night. I've used it to swing on them. I don't carry a gun even though I both own one and have a license to legally carry it.

 

Now, you apply this same scenario to some of the folks in this threads you'd have some who would turn up the volume and whistle dixie. Those would be the ones that got bitten. The others would carry a big stick, bear spray, and maybe a shotgun. Those would be the ones that were looked at as real kooks.

 

Me? I know there is a threat. No, the sky is not falling, but I'm not going to turn up the volume and pretend I won't ever get bitten. I won't go packing heat as that is, IMHO, a gross over-reaction.

 

As a side note, the only pitbull I've ever encountered on my walks was the most sweet dog out of all of them. You might remember Sissy's posts about him from a few months ago.

 

The point is, there is a perfectly reasonable position somewhere in the middle which isn't part of any extreme.

I reacted that way, because I felt that you were swinging way too far to the other direction, just like you are saying here in your post. I'm not saying that who cares, go out and do whatever. But yes, things can happen. But dragging in random examples from all over to try and show that bad things can happen is being alarmist. If that was the case, I should never get in a car again and drive down the road. We do these things because we choose to do it to have a quality life. The statistics are in our favor, and if someday that bad thing happens to us, then we can say that we had a good life at least, not a scared and cowering one.

 

When we visited Australia, I was struck because people had this image of the U.S. that it was scary and dangerous to go out in the woods because everyone will immediately get attacked and eaten by a bear. I thought that was so funny. But then I thought about it, and we think a lot of times about Australia, people being attacked and eaten by crocodiles and sharks, and they think that's baloney.

 

A lot of it's in the mind. We can decide that it's not worth it, stay home and hope that an airplane doesn't crash into our house, or we can go out and enjoy life to the fullest. That's what I choose to do, and I have no apologies for it.

 

We can each decide our comfort level, and as long as others aren't hurting us by their choices, we shouldn't get on their case for what they are doing to get a quality life for themselves.

[nonaeroterraqueous]

What a terrible world some of you guys must be living in. Obviously mostly in USA and Germany. In other parts of the world we would never even think about bringing weapons with us when going bush or other places. It sounds totally un-real!

 

I have a co-worker who used to live in Australia, like you. He tells me that he and his friends used to think the United States was a dangerous place, based on what he saw on television. After being here for a couple of decades he no longer thinks that way.

 

Incidentally, I probably don't belong in this thread. Goodbye.

[CoyoteRed]

A lot of it's in the mind. We can decide that it's not worth it, stay home and hope that an airplane doesn't crash into our house, or we can go out and enjoy life to the fullest. That's what I choose to do, and I have no apologies for it.

Maybe I can illustrate a bit of my philosophy with a couple of examples:

• I drive on the interstate* and I wear a seatbelt.
  
• I ride a motorcycle and I wear a helmet.
  

An alarmist would do neither of those things because they know something bad can happen regardless of the precautions.

 

A devil-may-care person may do those things regardless of whether something bad can happen and not take precautions.

 

I do those things, and take precautions, because I know something bad can happen.

 

See, I can enjoy those things yet be somewhat prepared for that time when something bad happens. I'm alive because I was wearing a seatbelt. Simple as that. I that a risk and the precaution, and I walked away--literally with a single scratch. Could I have survived the same thing while riding? Don't know, but I know I have better odds wearing a helmet than not.

 

Oh, and motorcycle helmets are optional in South Carolina so it's not as if I'm required to take care of my safety. I do it because I know the risks, prepare for them, and then face them head on.

 

* Not that driving on the interstate is any more dangerous than many of the other roadways, but I know fo folks who will not drive the interstate because they are afraid of it.

[+Mule Ears]

• I drive on the interstate* and I wear a seatbelt.
  
• I ride a motorcycle and I wear a helmet.
  

 

You've nailed it, but you don't quite see it yet. Try to imagine someone holding the opinion that the act of buckling that seatbelt or helmet strap carried the intent to drive recklessly or to deliberately cause an accident. That, it appears, is the outlook of the faction here that resists the idea of being prepared for unlikely-but-possible dangers. To be prepared for trouble demonstrates aggression, paranoia and fear. To be unprepared is a statement of openness, trust and compassion.

[+Ambrosia]

Thanks for the different points of views, guys, I find them interesting, as long as they are stated in an informative and nice way.

 

I grew up with probably about the most protective mother you can have without living in a bubble in my room. So I've had to find my own balance as an adult. I married a big outdoors, live life to the fullest kind of guy (although he has a healthy dose of nervousness unlike a lot of unthinking outdoor daredevils do). My mom thought I was marrying the devil. It took some adjusting for me at first, but after living both ways, I prefer erring on the side of freedom.

[+1NatureMom]

I cant read these dadgum new thread structure! UGH..... so I have only skimmed thru some of the threads here. But I found this article in this month's issue of Backpacker magazine. I wont quote/type the entire article....'cause ya should really get this mag-it's good But the main points are:

 

Predicament: you're several miles into a solo dayhike when you pass an agressive -looking man who seems out of plac e On the trail; you pick up your pace, but the follows and demands that you turn around.

 

Lifeline: KEEP WALKING! look for other hikers and ask to join their gorup. if not,,,,,tell him you're hikin g with friends who are nearby. be calm. make eye contact. rest your hands by your side (crossed arms can be defence stance-and wont allow to react quickly)

if he asks for money, give it to him. if he attacks, YELL FOR HELP AND FIGHT BACK--SHOUT, BITE SCRATCH, POKE, AND AIM FOR VITAL AREAS lIKE EYES, GROIN, AND THROAT.

 

may everyone have peace out there and stay safe!

Leslie

[+Team GeoBlast]

...i wouldn't know where to put a dead bolt in a french door. oh. is that the knob thingy?

 

gah. much easier to break the glass. nobody in my neighborhood would notice the sound of glass breaking, what with all the shelling and such.

 

That changes everthing. With the shelling and all, I'd break any remaining glass in french doors just to have the novelty of doing it myself.

 

the shelling doesn't actually happen at my house. it's down the street. at my house, we have golfers, who can take out french doors effectively themselves. ever since they moved the tee back, wild slices on the 7th tend to end up in my yard, if not my house.

 

artillery has never broken glass in my neighborhood that i know of, but it's plenty loud when i get going.

 

I went a BBQ once at a house on a golf course and noticed some clubs leaning against a tree in the yard. I inquired about this and was told to wait and see. Sure enough, an errant ball landed right in the middle of the party almost hitting a group of people. The wife stuck her head inside the window of the house and shouted "FORE." Before you knew it, the husband had the ball teed up and hit it back at the foursome scattering them like cockroaches on the course. From a safety standpoint, this bothered me and I would have hated to see someone get hit, but the irony of fair play did not escape me either.

[+Team Wolf Clan]

Check out kellyworden.com, and his Travel Wrench. It might be legal in Germany since it's not a deadly weapon, although it could be if ya really knew what you were doing with it. Buy his video and book if you can carry it. They will both be a very good training aid. Some of his training covers how women can use this thing. If I knew how to add a picture to this post I would add a picture of it but alas I don't.

Edited September 2, 2007 by Team Wolf Clan

[+Team Cotati]

...i wouldn't know where to put a dead bolt in a french door. oh. is that the knob thingy?

 

gah. much easier to break the glass. nobody in my neighborhood would notice the sound of glass breaking, what with all the shelling and such.

 

That changes everthing. With the shelling and all, I'd break any remaining glass in french doors just to have the novelty of doing it myself.

 

the shelling doesn't actually happen at my house. it's down the street. at my house, we have golfers, who can take out french doors effectively themselves. ever since they moved the tee back, wild slices on the 7th tend to end up in my yard, if not my house.

 

artillery has never broken glass in my neighborhood that i know of, but it's plenty loud when i get going.

 

I went a BBQ once at a house on a golf course and noticed some clubs leaning against a tree in the yard. I inquired about this and was told to wait and see. Sure enough, an errant ball landed right in the middle of the party almost hitting a group of people. The wife stuck her head inside the window of the house and shouted "FORE." Before you knew it, the husband had the ball teed up and hit it back at the foursome scattering them like cockroaches on the course. From a safety standpoint, this bothered me and I would have hated to see someone get hit, but the irony of fair play did not escape me either.

 

You cannot possibly guess how much money I'd pay to see those home owners hit someone dead beween the eyes some day. You know, don't kill anyone, just do enough damage to get their humorous little selves sued out of their home and entire lifetime of savings and investments.

[+Renegade Knight]

...i wouldn't know where to put a dead bolt in a french door. oh. is that the knob thingy?

 

gah. much easier to break the glass. nobody in my neighborhood would notice the sound of glass breaking, what with all the shelling and such.

 

That changes everthing. With the shelling and all, I'd break any remaining glass in french doors just to have the novelty of doing it myself.

 

the shelling doesn't actually happen at my house. it's down the street. at my house, we have golfers, who can take out french doors effectively themselves. ever since they moved the tee back, wild slices on the 7th tend to end up in my yard, if not my house.

 

artillery has never broken glass in my neighborhood that i know of, but it's plenty loud when i get going.

 

I went a BBQ once at a house on a golf course and noticed some clubs leaning against a tree in the yard. I inquired about this and was told to wait and see. Sure enough, an errant ball landed right in the middle of the party almost hitting a group of people. The wife stuck her head inside the window of the house and shouted "FORE." Before you knew it, the husband had the ball teed up and hit it back at the foursome scattering them like cockroaches on the course. From a safety standpoint, this bothered me and I would have hated to see someone get hit, but the irony of fair play did not escape me either.

 

You cannot possibly guess how much money I'd pay to see those home owners hit someone dead beween the eyes some day. You know, don't kill anyone, just do enough damage to get their humorous little selves sued out of their home and entire lifetime of savings and investments.

 

The homeowners unlike the golfers gave the proper warning. A judge interested in justice would drop the case or fine the golfers for having the nerve to even bring it up. Because of the lack of warning on the part of the golfers they are the ones more likely to find themselves on the receiving end of a lawsuit.

[+Team GeoBlast]

...i wouldn't know where to put a dead bolt in a french door. oh. is that the knob thingy?

 

gah. much easier to break the glass. nobody in my neighborhood would notice the sound of glass breaking, what with all the shelling and such.

 

That changes everthing. With the shelling and all, I'd break any remaining glass in french doors just to have the novelty of doing it myself.

 

the shelling doesn't actually happen at my house. it's down the street. at my house, we have golfers, who can take out french doors effectively themselves. ever since they moved the tee back, wild slices on the 7th tend to end up in my yard, if not my house.

 

artillery has never broken glass in my neighborhood that i know of, but it's plenty loud when i get going.

 

I went a BBQ once at a house on a golf course and noticed some clubs leaning against a tree in the yard. I inquired about this and was told to wait and see. Sure enough, an errant ball landed right in the middle of the party almost hitting a group of people. The wife stuck her head inside the window of the house and shouted "FORE." Before you knew it, the husband had the ball teed up and hit it back at the foursome scattering them like cockroaches on the course. From a safety standpoint, this bothered me and I would have hated to see someone get hit, but the irony of fair play did not escape me either.

 

You cannot possibly guess how much money I'd pay to see those home owners hit someone dead beween the eyes some day. You know, don't kill anyone, just do enough damage to get their humorous little selves sued out of their home and entire lifetime of savings and investments.

 

You are right, I cannot possibly guess. How much?

[+Sparrowhawk]

I skimmed thru the thread and it looks like it's gone a bit off-topic... I'll add my story anyway.

 

I was born in Oregon but unfortunately grew up on the south side of Chicago - the effects of which no amount of therapy can cure. I am slowly recovering, however, even 2 decades later.

 

There is one good thing about that though... I learned how to do a "I am on a mission to kill someone" kind of walking body language. Street crowds on the sidewalk part when I drop into that mode. It helps to wear a black leather jacket. I also have learned how to do a burning, freaky psycho death stare. I keep both tucked away in my psyche like controllable defensive weapons and don't bring them out unless necessary. Useful stuff.

 

I used to live in a downtown apartment - a tiny rent-controlled room. I remarked on the elevator one day to some woman at random about not really having to worry about being bothered. A week later, she caught up with me and asked: "How do you make them not bother you? I am harassed by weird guys on the street every day!"

 

I looked at her. Her body language was a doe-eyed, vulnerable Bambi look.

 

I wondered to myself: "Do I REALLY tell her?"

 

I decided, ah what the heck... give it to her straight and undiluted. "You look and walk around like friggin' Bambi!" I demonstrated the "come pick on me" defeated, vulnerable body language she was constantly doing. Then looked at her with clueless innocent wide eyes for a minute before switching back to my default. "See what I am talking about? THAT attracts jerk guys like flies!"

 

"Now... what I want you to do is pretend like you just found out that some jerk is messing with your little sister - and you are on a mission to rip his head off. Just think that, feel that!"

 

She stood there and now looked both doe-eyed and sad.

 

"Errrr... let's try again. Believe you have the POWER to take his head off with one punch, and you are on your way to doing that and save your sister. Now try it again."

 

This time, she managed to look a little angry and only half doe-eyed.

 

"Hmmm... well, that could work. Just practice having that feeling and keep it tucked away inside yourself like a reservoir. Then let your body tell everyone that as you walk down the street."

 

She promised to try.

 

Two weeks later, she caught up with me and said: "Wow, it WORKS! They don't bother me anymore! They are crossing the street when the see me! That is so much better!"

 

I congratulated her and told her to practice switching it on and off as an on-needed basis - and then she will be all right. It was nice to see her happy.