2 Benchmarks

[+Lacomo]

Ok folks I decided to try finding some benchmarks in my area. Firet one I found has me puzzled (thats not hard to do). Got to GZ and found the benchmark right off It was in a well mowed yard of some people that I know real well. The thing that has me puzzled is there are 2 markers there, about 40 or 50 ft apart. Is this common and what are these markers? Thanks, here's the pics.

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

What you found was HD1191 .

 

The station mark is the top picture and the RM3(with the arrow) is the bottom picture. The arrow should be pointing at the station disk WILDCAT RESET. The description will tell you if there are any other marks associated with the station disk.

 

Good way to get started.

 

John

[+Lacomo]

What you found was HD1191 .

 

The station mark is the top picture and the RM3(with the arrow) is the bottom picture. The arrow should be pointing at the station disk WILDCAT RESET. The description will tell you if there are any other marks associated with the station disk.

 

Good way to get started.

 

John

 

Thanks John, you are exactly right. Now please tell me how in the world you knew it was HD1191. I don't see any numbers on the markers matching that number.

[+Ernmark]

..it's also interesting that the current NGS datasheet still matches the info in GC (nothing since '72, but there's a 'new' 1990 disk) - wonder what happened between 1972 & 1990?....

[Bill93]

I suppose John used the advanced search options to look up the identifier "Wildcat" within the state of Missouri.

 

>I don't see any numbers on the markers matching that number.

 

Disks are stamped with all kinds of long and short alphabetical and alphanumeric Designations, and many designations are duplicated all over the country (occasionally even within a state but less often). So when NGS decided to computerize their data they assigned unique Permanent IDentifiers (PID) to all the stations in their data base, of the form 2 letters and 4 digits like HD1191. These do not appear on the disks.

 

Originally the country was broken into zones with unique letters in each zone. Thus most of the older marks in an area have the same letters and sequentially assigned digits. Now NGS is assigning any previously unused combination without regard to zones, so you may see some AD or AG PIDs mixed in with your HD's.

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

What you found was HD1191 .

 

The station mark is the top picture and the RM3(with the arrow) is the bottom picture. The arrow should be pointing at the station disk WILDCAT RESET. The description will tell you if there are any other marks associated with the station disk.

 

Good way to get started.

 

John

 

Thanks John, you are exactly right. Now please tell me how in the world you knew it was HD1191. I don't see any numbers on the markers matching that number.

 

I looked at your top picture and saw the name "WILDCAT" & "RESET" on the disk. I then went To This Page. (hint: Bookmark it in your browser.) Be sure to click on the button for designation and enter the "name" you want to find and also enter the state (I saw you are from MO.), then click the find benchmark button.

 

If you don't know the designation you can click on the coordinate button and search for the nearest benchmark to those coordinates.

 

Have fun,

 

John

[+frex3wv]

Nothing to add except congrats on your find. Benchmark hunting is very fun, and the folks on here are VERY nice and helpful! I'd try to help you - but I am still new and learning from the experts on here myself.

[+Black Dog Trackers]

There is indeed a problem with this disk. I'm not so sure it's a find of HD1191. It's a RESET of a RESET. The current datasheet for HD1191 says that the disk is stamped WILDCAT 1946 1972. This disk is stamped WILDCAT RESET 1990. There is no recovery note from 1990 and yet the current designation is WILDCAT RESET. (But then, a disk stamped with 2 dates is a reset.)

 

The blue disk is reference number 2 of the original WILDCAT, stamped WILDCAT 1946. The 1972 recovery note said that WILDCAT 1946 was destroyed and that the new disk (WILDCAT 1946 1972) officilally uses the old 1946 RM2 and azimuth disks. This would be because the 1972 disk was reset over the 1946 underground mark. The 1990 disk probably is too.

 

Generally the NGS uses a different PID when a mark is reset. The 1946-1972 version was probably found destroyed like the 1946 disk was.

 

This is probably a find of HD1191 but it isn't totally clear.

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

 

The blue disk is reference number 2 of the original WILDCAT, stamped WILDCAT 1946. The 1972 recovery note said that WILDCAT 1946 was destroyed and that the new disk (WILDCAT 1946 1972) officilally uses the old 1946 RM2 and azimuth disks. This would be because the 1972 disk was reset over the 1946 underground mark. The 1990 disk probably is too.

 

 

This is probably a find of HD1191 but it isn't totally clear.

 

The "Blue Disk" is RM 3 as that is what is stamped on it. The top picture is the disk for HD1191. Whether it is the previous reset or the latest reset is irrelevant when determining the PID# for that benchmark. I did not comment on the condition of said mark and make no attempts to even try. Being that it is a reset reset, then it might "possibly" qualify as destroyed, but that is up to the professionals who have a need to use that station.

 

Since the underground mark is still there, I would hesitate to claim a destroyed for this one as it is still viable.

 

John

[+Lacomo]

 

The blue disk is reference number 2 of the original WILDCAT, stamped WILDCAT 1946. The 1972 recovery note said that WILDCAT 1946 was destroyed and that the new disk (WILDCAT 1946 1972) officilally uses the old 1946 RM2 and azimuth disks. This would be because the 1972 disk was reset over the 1946 underground mark. The 1990 disk probably is too.

 

 

This is probably a find of HD1191 but it isn't totally clear.

 

The "Blue Disk" is RM 3 as that is what is stamped on it. The top picture is the disk for HD1191. Whether it is the previous reset or the latest reset is irrelevant when determining the PID# for that benchmark. I did not comment on the condition of said mark and make no attempts to even try. Being that it is a reset reset, then it might "possibly" qualify as destroyed, but that is up to the professionals who have a need to use that station.

 

Since the underground mark is still there, I would hesitate to claim a destroyed for this one as it is still viable.

 

John

 

OK I logged this as "I found it." and posted the first pic. Should I go back and delete the log or leave it?

[+Black Dog Trackers]

lacomo -

 

Your log of "Found It" is OK at this point. I do not recommend deleting it.

 

If you so choose, you could write to Deb at the NGS (see the bottom of this page), and notify her of the 1990 disk whose stamped Designation is WILDCAT RESET, include its picture, and ask her if it is the same as HD1191.

 

I also suggest including information about the disk you found that she can use as a log. This would be re-writing any of the following that is now different:

"'THE SURFACE STATION MARK IS A STANDARD DISK STAMPED WILDCAT 1946 1972, SET IN THE TOP OF A 12 INCH SQUARE CONCRETE MONUMENT THAT PROJECTS 2 INCHES ABOVE THE GROUND SURFACE. IT IS 63.5 FEET EAST OF THE EDGE OF CONCRETE PORCH LANDING AT THE EAST ENTRANCE TO A HOUSE, 106 FEET SOUTH OF THE CENTER OF THE GRAVELED ROAD, 29 FEET WEST OF THE CENTER OF HIGHWAY 29, 19 FEET NORTH-NORTHEAST OF A POWER POLE AND 3 FEET SOUTH OF A METAL WITNESS POST."

You'd begin with "The surface station mark is an NGS disk stamped WILDCAT RESET 1990, set in .....".

 

If she finds that the 1990 disk really is HD1191, then she will very likely go ahead and use your rewrite and it will be your first NGS log !

 

If she finds that the 1990 disk is not HD1191, then she might enter a NOT FOUND log for HD1191.

 

If you do contact Deb, you would want to have your Geocaching benchmark log reflect her decision.

 

If you're uncomfortable about writing Deb at the NGS at this point, you could instead hold off from contacting Deb, and do it several months from now, after you've done some more benchmark hunting.

 

I suspect that she will find in files what seems to be a missing recovery report, describing a reset of the 1946-1972 disk to be a 1990 disk, but I don't know. The other alternative is that the 1990 disk is not HD1191 because it was never bluebooked.

 

One thing to check and put in your log is to measure between the 1990 disk and RM3 to see if the distance is 16.733 meters.

 

This is one of those little mysteries in the NGS database. We've seen a few of them over the years.

 

By the way, since HD1191 is a location adjusted mark, its coordinates are much more exact than you can measure with your GPS receiver.

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

 

The blue disk is reference number 2 of the original WILDCAT, stamped WILDCAT 1946. The 1972 recovery note said that WILDCAT 1946 was destroyed and that the new disk (WILDCAT 1946 1972) officilally uses the old 1946 RM2 and azimuth disks. This would be because the 1972 disk was reset over the 1946 underground mark. The 1990 disk probably is too.

 

 

This is probably a find of HD1191 but it isn't totally clear.

 

 

The "Blue Disk" is RM 3 as that is what is stamped on it. The top picture is the disk for HD1191. Whether it is the previous reset or the latest reset is irrelevant when determining the PID# for that benchmark. I did not comment on the condition of said mark and make no attempts to even try. Being that it is a reset reset, then it might "possibly" qualify as destroyed, but that is up to the professionals who have a need to use that station.

 

Since the underground mark is still there, I would hesitate to claim a destroyed for this one as it is still viable.

 

John

 

OK I logged this as "I found it." and posted the first pic. Should I go back and delete the log or leave it?

 

lacomo,

 

Your log is just fine, do not delete it. If you have pictures of the Reference Marks, you could also include those with your log.

 

The logs on GC.com just assist surveyors as to whether the benchmark is still available for use. That is one of the reasons that most of us do this.

 

Have fun and go find more and log those also.

 

Good hunting!

 

Shirley - half of 2oldfarts

[+Harry Dolphin]

 

The logs on GC.com just assist surveyors as to whether the benchmark is still available for use. That is one of the reasons that most of us do this.

 

Shirley - half of 2oldfarts

 

It is?!?!? I thought it was because I was having fun, and enjoying the unique challenges that benchmarking entails.

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

 

The logs on GC.com just assist surveyors as to whether the benchmark is still available for use. That is one of the reasons that most of us do this.

 

Shirley - half of 2oldfarts

 

It is?!?!? I thought it was because I was having fun, and enjoying the unique challenges that benchmarking entails.

 

Yes, I hope that will not detract from your fun and enjoyment. I said that it was ONE of the reasons - not the only one....we are having a blast too!

[StripeMark]

The only thing I would add is that "lacomo" should add some area shots including the disc in the shot. Try shooting it from the north or south. Try to get a shot with both the station mark and reference mark included in the image. This would make it much easier to find for any future hunters or surveyors.

 

my 2-cents