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No good trail maps for Garmin?


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I've done a lot of searching, in this forum and on the web, and it seems that there are no good, comprehensive trail maps available for GPSrs, specifically for Garmin. I've looked at all (both!) the official Garmin trail-type maps. The National Parks Topo seem to have the right detail--complete, routable trails--but the coverage is limited to national parks. Plus, it's US-only. The Topo US maps have some trails but not all, and they're not routable (a minor point, but it should be easy to do--rarely are there turn restrictions or one-way segments on trails as you would get on roads). I'm not all that excited about topo anyway; at the least I'd like to have it as a separate map set so it could be turned off to declutter the display.

 

I'm looking for something with the detail of the National Parks map set but with coverage of trails in national, state and regional/county parks. Ideally it would have the trails, key features/waypoints, vegetative cover (so you know if it's one to avoid on hot summer days). That doesn't seem to exist. (Maybe it's a lucrative opportunity for the motivated individual).

 

I've looked into publicly-available GIS sources for trails for creating my own maps. There is some data out there, but it's going to be a lot of work to convert the various formats, piece things together, etc. Unless I find something already done, this is probably the painful route I'll pursue. I did find one map at MapCenter for nearby Annadel State Park which is about what I'm looking for.

 

In my dream world, what would be ideal is if Garmin devices supported an open map format, then we could create a comprehensive map data set (or build off of OpenStreetMap.org) to use. But I'm willing to bet that Garmin's map sales are subsidizing the cost of the devices. So, you pay one way or another.

 

Sorry for the rant. Anyone have any thoughts/suggestions/volunteering?

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I've looked into publicly-available GIS sources for trails for creating my own maps. There is some data out there,

Sorry for the rant. Anyone have any thoughts/suggestions/volunteering?

 

That's the reason that comprehensive maps don't exist. If you have the data globalmapper can probably read the format the data is in, then you use cgpsmapper to generate the map. Getting the data is the hard part.

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There are a couple of other alternatives.

 

We use our Garmin for hiking, some in National Parks, but most out. There are a number of web sites that post GPX tracks for commonly-used trails. Backpacker.com, TrailRegistry.com LocalHikes.com most immediately come to mind.

 

And when that fails, we've been able to locate trail maps online (usually in PDF or jpg format), which we load into Google Earth as overlays. That allows us to use GE's Path tool to create a route, which we then save as a GPX file.

 

So even though Garmin's topos don't have a lot of trails, we've found it pretty easy to add them from GPX files.

Edited by imajeep
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There are a couple of other alternatives.

 

We use our Garmin for hiking, some in National Parks, but most out. There are a number of web sites that post GPX tracks for commonly-used trails. Backpacker.com, TrailRegistry.com LocalHikes.com most immediately come to mind.

 

And when that fails, we've been able to locate trail maps online (usually in PDF or jpg format), which we load into Google Earth as overlays. That allows us to use GE's Path tool to create a route, which we then save as a GPX file.

 

So even though Garmin's topos don't have a lot of trails, we've found it pretty easy to add them from GPX files.

Yeah, I've seen that option as well, but adding trails one at a time from tracklogs is even more painful than one park at a time. This seems to beg for a community effort. If everyone added their tracklogs as polyline routable trails, we could come up with some data in a hurry.

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I think the best offering in this regard at the moment is the Delorme Topo USA 6 and the Delorme PN-20. T6 is pretty good quality--I have heard a few complaints of road inaccuracies. They have about as extensive a trail database as is available, which still leaves a lot out. The trails are routable, though, and you can add tracks to the program as routable trails (or roads, as you wish). The PN-20 is a fairly new product, though, and it has a few rough edges yet (it's not so great for a lot of street navigation, for example).

 

From what I've seen, one just about has to resort to online user libraries for trail data. There was a good sharing of these sites in a thread here this year (which was nicely summarized here.

 

I'm not sure why a more complete collection isn't available commercially. I guess there are just too many of them, and they can change too quickly to catalog them well.

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I think the best offering in this regard at the moment is the Delorme Topo USA 6 and the Delorme PN-20. T6 is pretty good quality--I have heard a few complaints of road inaccuracies. They have about as extensive a trail database as is available, which still leaves a lot out. The trails are routable, though, and you can add tracks to the program as routable trails (or roads, as you wish). The PN-20 is a fairly new product, though, and it has a few rough edges yet (it's not so great for a lot of street navigation, for example).

 

From what I've seen, one just about has to resort to online user libraries for trail data. There was a good sharing of these sites in a thread here this year (which was nicely summarized here.

 

I'm not sure why a more complete collection isn't available commercially. I guess there are just too many of them, and they can change too quickly to catalog them well.

The Delorme is interesting, but for now I'm sticking with the crowd and getting a Garmin.

 

I read that thread yesterday, but it left me unsatisfied. I'm working on making my own from national park service data, to start with. When I get a good collection I'll share them via mapcenter.

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It pretty much boils down to whether or not offering detailed trail maps would be profitable to the GPS manufacturers. I've seen new NG Trails Illustrated paper (well, plastic) maps being offered only when an area became popular enough to create a profitable demand. Good ol' capitalism at work!

 

So, until the trails in central Florida become so popular that enough hikers with GPS receivers demand detailed maps from Garmin, I'll have to make my own. (And I honestly hope that those trails will never become that popular.)

 

- Fieldkat :o

 

 

...

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The Magellan Triton series of GPS receivers looks promising. They are to come out in a month or so and have the ability to use the 1:24000 topo maps.

Yes, I know; I've been reading the forums. As I mentioned, Topo is not all that interesting to me; I want accurate trail maps, and I haven't seen that the National Geographic topo is an improvement there. I would pay $100 or so for accurate, routable trail maps of all of North America which included trails in national, state and regional parks. The data set is much smaller than the CityNavigator series.

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Annadel is a wonderful park. There are plenty of .gpx files available online of the trails there. Download those and the contour files for the park and you've got the basis of a great map.

Ah, but I don't need to, because someone already created that map. See here: http://mapcenter.cgpsmapper.com/maplist.ph...nnadel&det= I'm not sure how he did it; I'm guessing he traced the park map PDF 'cause I can't find any GIS data for California State Parks online.

Hey, congrats on the baby, by the way. I didn't realize you were in Fort Bragg. I love the Mendocino coast--one of my favorite places in the world.

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Ah, but I don't need to, because someone already created that map. See here: http://mapcenter.cgpsmapper.com/maplist.ph...nnadel&det= I'm not sure how he did it; I'm guessing he traced the park map PDF 'cause I can't find any GIS data for California State Parks online.

Hey, congrats on the baby, by the way. I didn't realize you were in Fort Bragg. I love the Mendocino coast--one of my favorite places in the world.

 

Cool map! Yeah, there's not a lot of Cal Parks info out there. There are broader public lands shapefiles that include state and fed, but they are probably dated.

 

Thank for the congrats. Its been a week, so I'm finally starting to get back online.

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If you are trail hiking and "putting all your eggs in one basket" navigationaly speaking, by having your only maps in your GPS (and maybe your only compass too?), you are playing navigational "Russian Roulette". There is no freaking way I am entering the backcountry without my GPS AND a good paper map AND a grid card AND a good compass.

So...That begs the question: Why would someone want to study a tiny little screen of a map on a GPS if you already have a paper 1:24,000 quad. and a grid card with you (which you dang sure should have)? That is why I use a Garmin Foretrex 101...The smallest, lightest available. Not to mention the extra hundred bucks to buy those maps. On screen mapping for handheld hiking units is way, way, overrated and frustrating to use. I get really, really tired of having to play with the click stick to pan the map around to see beyond the screen (Yes...I have used units with maps extensively in the backcountry.) Give me a paper map any day of the week. I open it up, and instantly can see the whole "big picture".

Incidently, I print my own 1:24,000 topo maps from NG, using Adventure Paper. This stuff rocks!

Edited by Alphawolf
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There are a couple of other alternatives.

 

We use our Garmin for hiking, some in National Parks, but most out. There are a number of web sites that post GPX tracks for commonly-used trails. Backpacker.com, TrailRegistry.com LocalHikes.com most immediately come to mind.

 

And when that fails, we've been able to locate trail maps online (usually in PDF or jpg format), which we load into Google Earth as overlays. That allows us to use GE's Path tool to create a route, which we then save as a GPX file.

 

So even though Garmin's topos don't have a lot of trails, we've found it pretty easy to add them from GPX files.

Yeah, I've seen that option as well, but adding trails one at a time from tracklogs is even more painful than one park at a time. This seems to beg for a community effort. If everyone added their tracklogs as polyline routable trails, we could come up with some data in a hurry.

 

I'll second that! It's a shame there isn't something like Groundspeak for hikers.

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If you are trail hiking and "putting all your eggs in one basket" navigationaly speaking, by having your only maps in your GPS (and maybe your only compass too?), you are playing navigational "Russian Roulette". There is no freaking way I am entering the backcountry without my GPS AND a good paper map AND a grid card AND a good compass.

So...That begs the question: Why would someone want to study a tiny little screen of a map on a GPS if you already have a paper 1:24,000 quad. and a grid card with you (which you dang sure should have)? That is why I use a Garmin Foretrex 101...The smallest, lightest available. Not to mention the extra hundred bucks to buy those maps. On screen mapping for handheld hiking units is way, way, overrated and frustrating to use. I get really, really tired of having to play with the click stick to pan the map around to see beyond the screen (Yes...I have used units with maps extensively in the backcountry.) Give me a paper map any day of the week. I open it up, and instantly can see the whole "big picture".

Incidently, I print my own 1:24,000 topo maps from NG, using Adventure Paper. This stuff rocks!

I'm talking about day hiking or backpacking on simple, well-defined trails, not an expedition. The trails I'm used to hiking are pretty straightforward--one way in, one way out with maybe some spur trails; not 40 miles into a wilderness area. Normally I wouldn't carry any map or compass at all. If I have a GPSr that can do mapping, I want it to be comprehensive. It's for reference purposes, and maybe for "Let's go see what's on that trail" or "look, there's a lake up there", or to answer the kids "how much farther"? Actually, that last point is pretty relevant--with routable trails, you could get accurate on-trail distances.

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SiliconFiend said:

 

"If you are trail hiking and "putting all your eggs in one basket" navigationaly speaking, by having your only maps in your GPS (and maybe your only compass too?), you are playing navigational "Russian Roulette". There is no freaking way I am entering the backcountry without my GPS AND a good paper map AND a grid card AND a good compass."

 

Ok, I'l bite.

 

What is a "grid card"?

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SiliconFiend said:

 

"If you are trail hiking and "putting all your eggs in one basket" navigationaly speaking, by having your only maps in your GPS (and maybe your only compass too?), you are playing navigational "Russian Roulette". There is no freaking way I am entering the backcountry without my GPS AND a good paper map AND a grid card AND a good compass."

 

Ok, I'l bite.

 

What is a "grid card"?

 

A grid card is simply a clear acetate card with a scaled grid to assist in figuring UTM coordinates from a topo map. You must use the card that is scaled to the scale of the topo map you are using. Some cards are multi-scaled for use with different scale maps. Here is a link to just one such card (not the one I use):

Grid Card

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Trail systems in many areas are in a constant state of flux, with closures, re-routes, new trails etc... being commonplace. I was involved with the publication of a new, comprehensive trail map for my area. They kept putting off publication to include changes and finally sent it to the printer. It was obsolete before it hit the stores.

 

Same thing would be the case with any mapping software. National Geographic Topo shows the Appalachian Trail in my area. It shows on the mapt to be about a half mile from where it actually is. The trail has been moved since the software was released.

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Trail systems in many areas are in a constant state of flux, with closures, re-routes, new trails etc... being commonplace. I was involved with the publication of a new, comprehensive trail map for my area. They kept putting off publication to include changes and finally sent it to the printer. It was obsolete before it hit the stores.

 

Same thing would be the case with any mapping software. National Geographic Topo shows the Appalachian Trail in my area. It shows on the mapt to be about a half mile from where it actually is. The trail has been moved since the software was released.

That's interesting. I haven't seen that personally; maybe it's happening in certain areas. But even if the software focused on the three park types I mentioned (national, state and regional), that would be sufficient coverage for me. The key is to get GIS trail data from the various agencies. If they're able to make paper/pdf maps, I'm sure they used GIS as a source. That data should be public information (if it was collected with public money), but sometimes they're funny about sharing it.

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...The key is to get GIS trail data from the various agencies. If they're able to make paper/pdf maps, I'm sure they used GIS as a source. That data should be public information (if it was collected with public money), but sometimes they're funny about sharing it.

 

Last year, I was researching trail data for Saguaro National Park in Tucson, AZ, to make my own custom GPS maps. I went to the NPS GIS page and downloaded their trail data file. I was tickled and slightly annoyed that it was a digitized version of the NG Trails Illustrated map of the park. It's a really good map, but based on some earlier hikes with my GPS, it wasn't as accurate as I would've liked.

 

(I know that they had recently collected accurate data, but it wasn't a priority to make it available to the public.)

 

- Fieldkat :)

 

..

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