Would you disable this cache?

[+~Hylife~]

Grass is Greener on the Underside (GC14HPT)

 

Some cachers, judging by their logs, think I should, and others think I shouldn't.

 

I agree, that the neighborhood is probably a little bit dangerous, but then again you don't have to do the cache..

 

Anyways, I'm just not sure as to what the best course of action is at this point.

 

Does anyone have any thoughts on this matter?

[+WeightMan]

Is there a reason you want to bring people to this park? If not, archive it.

[+DudleyGrunt]

Not knowing the area, I can't say for sure, but you seem to have posted appropriate warnings. You are right. No one needs to do the cache. If they arrive at the park and don't have a god feeling, they don't need to get out of the car. Some folks, though, seem to not be able to walk away from an unfound cache.

 

Perhaps the difficulty should be raised if it is potentially that dangerous. I agree with khome that places like this can use all the positive life they can get.

[+J-Way]

You can put all the disclaimers you want, but how would you feel if small group of cachers were mugged (not muggled) in that park while hunting for your cache? What if some of them ended up in the hospital from being beat/knifed/shot?

[+imajeep]

Unless there is a pretty compelling reason to bring people to the park, I'd disable it. Sooner or later, someone is going to get hurt, despite your warning.

[+TrailGators]

Unless there is a pretty compelling reason to bring people to the park, I'd disable it. Sooner or later, someone is going to get hurt, despite your warning.

I agree. Plus there are so many other better places to hide caches....

[+sbell111]

You've given appropriate warnings. I would not disable (or archive) the cache.

[+briansnat]

I'm not sure why you would want to put a cache there, but that isn't your question.

 

Since you placed it, you obviously want it there. Potential searchers have been warned. They are big boys (and girls) and should be able to decide on their own whether or not to attempt it.

[+wimseyguy]

Geocaching is about getting out and having fun and exploring new and interesting places. If you think this location provides seekers with those qualities in their experience, then leave it be.

 

People need to take responsibility for their own personal actions and safety.

I've walked away from a few I didn't feel comfortable seeking, and have probably gone and found a few others I should have walked away from.

 

But you might consider raising the terrain rating a bit. Partly because it sounds like 'rough' terrain, partly because a 1* terrain is generally considered to be wheelchair accessible.

[+Team GeoBlast]

Not knowing the area, I can't say for sure, but you seem to have posted appropriate warnings. You are right. No one needs to do the cache. If they arrive at the park and don't have a god feeling, they don't need to get out of the car. Some folks, though, seem to not be able to walk away from an unfound cache.

 

Perhaps the difficulty should be raised if it is potentially that dangerous. I agree with khome that places like this can use all the positive life they can get.

 

Yes, there's appropriate warnings. In fact the whole cache description is a warning. If I saw a cache page like that I would skip it. It's your question to answer; why am I bringing people here? If the upside does not overshadow the downside that you've highlighted in the description, I think you know what you should do.

[+Renegade Knight]

You can put all the disclaimers you want, but how would you feel if small group of cachers were mugged (not muggled) in that park while hunting for your cache? What if some of them ended up in the hospital from being beat/knifed/shot?

What if the increased presences of regular folks helps reclaim the park and makes the park safer for us all?

 

Disclaimers are fine. "Danger" isn't a cache problem. The only reason to disable the cache is if it's MIA or some other issue prevents cachers from logging it. The only reason to archive it is if the owner doesn't like owning the cache anymore, moves, quits, or otherwise is finished wiht the cache.

 

In other words, the cache looks to be A OK.

Edited August 17, 2007 by Renegade Knight

[+Team GeoBlast]

You can put all the disclaimers you want, but how would you feel if small group of cachers were mugged (not muggled) in that park while hunting for your cache? What if some of them ended up in the hospital from being beat/knifed/shot?

What if the increased presences of regular folks helps reclaim the park and makes the park safer for us all?

 

Disclaimers are fine. "Danger" isn't a cache problem. The only reason to disable the cache is if it's MIA or some other issue prevents cachers from logging it. The only reason to archive it is if the owner doesn't like owning the cache anymore, moves, quits, or otherwise is finished wiht the cache.

 

In other words, the cache looks to be A OK.

 

You'd have to create enough traffic to make a difference. I don't see the potential with this cache.

[+Cornerstone4]

I say leave it.

 

Maybe up the terrain a star or two for potentially dangerous circumstances...but the cache should stay.

[+Cornerstone4]

As an afterthought...

 

If you were hoping to get a consensus in here to aid in your decision, you came to the wrong place!

 

You will never get complete agreement with this lot!

[+Jeep_Dog]

Someone may be hurt with the cache placement. Interesting enough, I have visited numerous caches where I could have come to harm (from the environment, from critters) - yet they took me to a place that had spectacular beauty, revealed petroglyphs, et cetera. The location was worthy of a cache.

 

Reflect on:

 

Not every place that CAN have a cache SHOULD have a cache.

 

Then, with this in mind, consider the SHOULD part of your cache. Should that location have a cache?

[+J-Way]

Not knowing the area, I can't say for sure, but you seem to have posted appropriate warnings. You are right. No one needs to do the cache. If they arrive at the park and don't have a god feeling, they don't need to get out of the car. Some folks, though, seem to not be able to walk away from an unfound cache.

Yes, there are warnings, but different people take such warnings in different ways. I'm comfortable in places where my wife would lock the doors and leave at full speed. And good feelings only go so far. You could show up in the middle of the day with no one around and your spidey senses are quiet. Then the gang of wanna-be thugs shows up when you're 100 yards from your car and relieve you of all valuables.

 

But I'm not saying archive it, because I haven't seen it. Maybe the people who were uncomfortable in the area are being overly sensitive, but the log where the cacher was told to leave by the local thugs sounds kinda harsh.

 

I'm considering placing a cache in a local park. It's a nice park with a large duck pond, walking paths, big shady oaks, a playground, etc. It's about the size of two city blocks and there are zero caches there. I've been there once (late afternoon) and the only people there were clean, working-class people out for a stroll along the path with kids playing in the playground. The problem is that you have to drive through the "projects" to get there, which would scare off some people. Also, I have no idea what the area is like at night. So the cache remains unplaced.

[+brodiebunch]

Leave it as is.

 

The description has plenty of warnings. You may want to add some stars to the difficulty rating because of those warnings.

 

We lived in the Philadelphia area for five years, we went through many years through the war zone neighborhoods, we just acted like we had a purpose to be there and we left alone. We used common sense about when to go through the areas-never at night. Locals will know better, tourists probably never go through the area anyway.

 

Your cache is what it is-a ghetto cache. Perhaps you should just look forward about seeing just how unpleasant the logs will be for the braves willing to find it.

[+Machuco]

IMHO If there is any question AT ALL that it may be a danger to approach the cache area, Archive it. Save yourself the headache!

[The_Brownies]

Take it from an a veteran cacher. Disable it.

 

I view this particular cache in the same manner as a cache of mine that was archived due to it's proximity to a set of railroad tracks. The cache was not on the tracks, and in my opinion there did not appear to be any real danger of anyone ever getting ran over. None the less it was archived just to guard against the possiblity of someone being ran over by a train. Plus it would bother me knowing someone was hurt going after a cache that I placed in a location that was obviously a lot more dangerous than a set of lightly used rail road tracks.

 

Hope that helps.

[+sbell111]

Take it from an a veteran cacher. Disable it.

 

I view this particular cache in the same manner as a cache of mine that was archived due to it's proximity to a set of railroad tracks. The cache was not on the tracks, and in my opinion there did not appear to be any real danger of anyone ever getting ran over. None the less it was archived just to guard against the possiblity of someone being ran over by a train. Plus it would bother me knowing someone was hurt going after a cache that I placed in a location that was obviously a lot more dangerous than a set of lightly used rail road tracks.

 

Hope that helps.

The railroad proximity guideline has little to do with safety. It's a trespassing issue.

[+Wayfinders]

Wow, a lot of back and forth on this one.

You tried to do a good thing by bringing people to a park and hinting that CITO would be helpful.

That's all good.

 

But you posted your concern here and asked for opinions. You are obviously worried for the welfare of your fellow cachers, and rightfully so. Reading over the logs, it's quite obvious this could be a dangerous area.....so I'd say pull it and solve two problems at once.

 

1. Your worry goes away.

2. Nobody gets hurt.

 

Hey, you tried.......just place it somewhere else.

 

My 0.02

[+sbell111]

The more I look at the google map of this area, the more I like this cache. The neighborhood doesn't look like it is unloved. Some punks think that that they own the playground. So what? It's not like anyone can sneak up on you at this location.

 

Go in the daytime. Go with friends. If you're hassled, call a cop. The one person that was 'bothered' by these kids wasn't roughed up. They told him to leave. He did. Heck, perhaps they thought that they were protecting the neighborhood from him. Who knows? (Who cares?)

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Grass is Greener on the Underside (GC14HPT)

 

Some cachers, judging by their logs, think I should, and others think I shouldn't.

 

I agree, that the neighborhood is probably a little bit dangerous, but then again you don't have to do the cache..

 

Anyways, I'm just not sure as to what the best course of action is at this point.

 

Does anyone have any thoughts on this matter?

I feel strongly that the cache, as is, should be immediately disabled and archived, as the cache listing page is grossly deficient in many ways, namely:

• it displays an entirely misleading terrain rating of 1, rather than the 4 or 5 rating which it should bear
  
• the page does not display the "Danger" attribute icon
  
• the warnings in the Description section of the page are, in my opinion, too weak and too vague
  
• bottom line: if you are gonna place an extreme terrain cache, at least call it that!
  

[+fauxSteve]

I say keep it based purely on looking at it from 1000 miles away, but expect some straight-forward logs of disapproval. You've given ample warning that it's a dumpy, possibly uncomfortable area, but I also think a cacher has the right to say something in their logs (there's another thread going on regarding that idea). However, go with your gut based on the responses of people more familiar with the area.

 

I would add a proper hint though. Just because I went after a 1/1 that I knew was in a bad location, doesn't mean I want to return a second time after emailing you for help (full-disclosure: "email me for a hint" hints on "easy" caches are a pet-peave of mine... if it's so easy, just give a hint since I probably won't need it).

 

Then again, I probably wouldn't look for this cache anyway since I don't like caches right next to homes.

[+horsegeeks]

Leave it, let folks decide for themselves.

[+jerandjana]

My opinion would be to disable it.

1.The majority of the logs say something about it being unsafe with the type of muggles that hang around.

2.Plus, some people just have the coords and the name of the cache in the GPS and try to just grab it while passing by.

3.Think of how bad you would feel if somebody got hurt doing this cache.

4. It doesn't sound like it's a place that you really want people to see or enjoy.

Just my opinion.

Edited August 17, 2007 by jerandjana

[+TrailGators]

Does anyone have any thoughts on this matter?

Just keep in mind that your cache is a reflection of you.

[+Always & Forever 5]

Is there a reason you want to bring people to this park? If not, archive it.

 

How about, "The reason I bring people to this park is to find my cache"?

 

Why does EVERY cache have to be a mind-blowing experience? Funny, I look at the site of the original cache, and see nothing at all to bring people there other than to find the cache. When did it become all about the location and not all about finding caches???

[+Renegade Knight]

...You'd have to create enough traffic to make a difference. I don't see the potential with this cache.

 

Do they even have studies that would tell you how much "good traffic" it takes to put the bad traffic in hiding?

[Luckless]

I was looking for caches in a city I was traveling to. In the description of one cache it said that if I were to go after this cache I should probably be packing. Well that one went immediately into my ignore list. I don't really need a cache so bad I would have to shoot somebody to get it. It was a shock though to see that warning...but I was glad there was a warning.

It really is a shame that there are people who ruin it for others. You get all kinds. Around here most parks are safe, but when I was looking for places to hide caches in the parks I've run into a couple of uncomfortable situations. In one small park there was a car parked in the lot that I had to drive by and a couple of people were inside steaming up the windows pretty bad. I pretty much knew what was going on there. Another time some wacko drove into the park and sat for a bit then he started racing around in circles. (drugs maybe?) I was standing in the road and decided it might be good if I got out of the road and stepped behind some trees. He came tearing down the road and stopped right in front of me where I had been standing. He didn't look at me, but sat there for a few minutes then drove down the road and stared at some kids playing tennis. Then he drove off. I went back to what I was doing...then he was back. His behavior was very predatory and I decided to get the heck out of there.

I, personally, wouldn't put a cache in a situation that might be dangerous to cachers, but even in the best of places you can still find trouble so you need to be careful with every cache you search for and consider all the possible dangers.

[+bumblingbs]

Remember that there is a subset of cachers who cannot stand to have any unfound caches on their nearby list, and they will go and be uncomfortable and dislike the fact that it was placed there.

 

I read the description and said "ick", and would have to echo the sentiment that just because you can place a cache anywhere doesn't mean you should.

 

I'm afraid that those who say that having a cache there is going to clean up this park are not being especially realistic. You're going to scare off the thugs and clear out the garbage because a cacher comes through once a week? There might be more direct ways.

 

~Best

[+Cornerstone4]

3.Think of how bad you would feel if somebody got hurt doing this cache.

 

I've seen this reasons listed a couple of times here.

 

Would you really feel bad as long as folks were warned? There are risks inherant in doing any cache. I would probably feel worse about someone having an accident on a cache of mine that didn't have any outstanding factors to it. I would feel bad that they had an unexpected accident, but not responsible.

 

However, if the cache page lists the potential danger, and a cacher goes out at night and gets injured...I just don't know how I would feel.

 

On a related but whimsical note:

 

Maybe we should have an evolution of caching series, where only the best and most resourceful cachers survive. It would insure that only the most able and resourceful cachers survive to perpetuate the game. This would raise the game to the next level.

 

Oh, I forgot...I'm a creationist, so the perfect cacher has already been made...with all his/her inherant shortcomings.

[+Renegade Knight]

...3.Think of how bad you would feel if somebody got hurt doing this cache....

 

One thing I always remember when seeking a cache is that the owner doesn't want to get hurt when placing the cache. They don't like dancing with killer bees, kissing rattlesnakes, wading hip deep in quicksand, thorns, briars, being stabbed or shot any more than the next guy. It helps me find the right way in.

Edited August 17, 2007 by Renegade Knight

[+bumblingbs]

Well, I've done a cache where the owner said that it was awful, but it was awful because there were nettles and rabbit holes to fall into, but it was a physical challenge. I hated it and loved it and was proud to have done it; I'll wear it proudly.

 

There's a line, though, where it goes from that, to just..not. For me. I'm very sorry, but this one is a not.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Hey, it's your cache, do as you want!

 

I went to a cache recently, the area was pretty "rough" looking (colors all about). Tod and I did the once around the block trying to figure the best (and fastest/safest) approach. Too many colors about even for a couple of big ol men like us, so we hightailed it out of there (and it was a Sunday morning). No warnings, nothing to indicate any troubles.

 

My question is this: Why would you want to draw people to this area? Is there something nice to visit? Are there nice scenic views? Sounds like you placed it more for the place to be CITO'D than anything else, but like others have said, the cache reflects YOU, so if you want it there, leave it there! I'd change the ratings and add the danger attribute though!

[+sbell111]

Hey, it's your cache, do as you want!

 

I went to a cache recently, the area was pretty "rough" looking (colors all about). Tod and I did the once around the block trying to figure the best (and fastest/safest) approach. Too many colors about even for a couple of big ol men like us, so we hightailed it out of there (and it was a Sunday morning). No warnings, nothing to indicate any troubles.

 

My question is this: Why would you want to draw people to this area? Is there something nice to visit? Are there nice scenic views? Sounds like you placed it more for the place to be CITO'D than anything else, but like others have said, the cache reflects YOU, so if you want it there, leave it there! I'd change the ratings and add the danger attribute though!

I might add the danger attribute, or not. I wouldn't change the ratings. They appear to be correct.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Hey, it's your cache, do as you want!

 

I went to a cache recently, the area was pretty "rough" looking (colors all about). Tod and I did the once around the block trying to figure the best (and fastest/safest) approach. Too many colors about even for a couple of big ol men like us, so we hightailed it out of there (and it was a Sunday morning). No warnings, nothing to indicate any troubles.

 

My question is this: Why would you want to draw people to this area? Is there something nice to visit? Are there nice scenic views? Sounds like you placed it more for the place to be CITO'D than anything else, but like others have said, the cache reflects YOU, so if you want it there, leave it there! I'd change the ratings and add the danger attribute though!

I might add the danger attribute, or not. I wouldn't change the ratings. They appear to be correct.

 

I MIGHT have misread because I only glanced at the listing, but I thought it was a 1/1 rating? I doubt this is wheelchair accessible (but again, I could be wrong).

[+bumblingbs]

Hey, it's your cache, do as you want!

 

I went to a cache recently, the area was pretty "rough" looking (colors all about). Tod and I did the once around the block trying to figure the best (and fastest/safest) approach. Too many colors about even for a couple of big ol men like us, so we hightailed it out of there (and it was a Sunday morning). No warnings, nothing to indicate any troubles.

 

My question is this: Why would you want to draw people to this area? Is there something nice to visit? Are there nice scenic views? Sounds like you placed it more for the place to be CITO'D than anything else, but like others have said, the cache reflects YOU, so if you want it there, leave it there! I'd change the ratings and add the danger attribute though!

 

Boy, am I living a sheltered life. Don't go to a cache because there's colors all around? What's the problem with that, I'm thinking. I love the blue of the sky, the green of the trees and plants, the wildflowers...oh, wait...

[+Ambrosia]

I help maintain a cache - Wally - that has some issues, perhaps not the same kinds, though. It's in a park with almost constant homeless people hanging around, trash, broken glass, etc. It's a beautiful park with a steam engine that people can see from a lot of prominant roads, but it's sad to see how it's treated. One of the earlier finders actually found a wrapped, 10 inch blade knife in the bushes near the cache.

 

But the cache has a reason ( ) for being there, and I give lots of disclaimers. People get out of the park and the cache what they want, which you can read from the logs. There are a few DNF's, but for the most part they come back and finish it later. I have no problems with keeping it there.

[+Team Cotati]

And it is a micro no less. God help me.

[+bumblingbs]

Hylife, remember that we love you, and thank you for asking. (hugs)

[+PeterNoG]

1. We often search without reading the description, so your warnings would not help us.

 

2. We would not search very long if

Two muggles approached from 55th street and told me to get out of their park with more colorful language.

 

3. Location. Location. Location. Is this really a place that you want to bring geocachers to?

[+JohnnyVegas]

Disable, No!

I would archive it. No, no, wait, wait--I would not have placed it to begin with.

[+AKStafford]

You can put all the disclaimers you want, but how would you feel if small group of cachers were mugged (not muggled) in that park while hunting for your cache? What if some of them ended up in the hospital from being beat/knifed/shot?

 

Caching is always done at your own risk... What if I'm doing a Wal-Mart Lap Skirt Micro and some grandma with bad vision hits me? Just last weekend we were caching in the woods and the wife stepped on a wasps nest. We were both stung between 10 and 20 times. (See log here...)

We've ran into bears while caching, and almost froze to death in -20 degree weather.

There's plenty of warnings on the cache page. It probably wouldn't be my favorite cache, but if others want to do it, they are adults and can make their own judgments.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Hey, it's your cache, do as you want!

 

I went to a cache recently, the area was pretty "rough" looking (colors all about). Tod and I did the once around the block trying to figure the best (and fastest/safest) approach. Too many colors about even for a couple of big ol men like us, so we hightailed it out of there (and it was a Sunday morning). No warnings, nothing to indicate any troubles.

 

My question is this: Why would you want to draw people to this area? Is there something nice to visit? Are there nice scenic views? Sounds like you placed it more for the place to be CITO'D than anything else, but like others have said, the cache reflects YOU, so if you want it there, leave it there! I'd change the ratings and add the danger attribute though!

 

Boy, am I living a sheltered life. Don't go to a cache because there's colors all around? What's the problem with that, I'm thinking. I love the blue of the sky, the green of the trees and plants, the wildflowers...oh, wait...

 

By colors, I meant gang colors...hope I didn't confuse or upset anyone.

[+JohnnyVegas]

What if I'm doing a Wal-Mart Lap Skirt Micro and some grandma with bad vision hits me?

Just last weekend we were caching in the woods and the wife stepped on a wasps nest. We were both stung between 10 and 20 times.

We've ran into bears while caching, and almost froze to death in -20 degree weather.

Gee, talk about comparing apples to Oranges, The cache in question was place in an area that has of history of being a hang for local punks. The hidder knew this when the cache was placed. This is not the same as being hit by grandma in a Wallmart parking lot, that may happen but it would not happen very offten, it is not the same as stepping on a hornets nest, in the woods there are lots of things the cause injury. As cachers those are things we are aware of. Almost freezing in -20 degree weather IMO is an issue of not thinking and planning before going out.

But a cache that is placed in a park in which local gangs seem to think they own is something that the hidder should take into consideration.

I have seen caches that have been placed with bad judgment. But from reading the logs for this cache IMO this has got to be one of the worst placements for a cache I have read about.

Sure there is a disclaimer, but that is not going to keep some hungy lawyer from filing a suit if he/she thinks there is money to be had. It cost lots of money to defend a lawsuit, and even if you win, you lose financialy.

[+kit'n'kaboodle]

I know the neighborhood this cache is in and, while it is probably not dangerous during daylight, the location also has nothing compelling about it. (Actually, I am running into those types alot lately.) Given that, I would say archive it

[Luckless]

Hylife, remember that we love you, and thank you for asking. (hugs)

 

ditto

[mikej2]

There was a find report this year about a cache in NW Milwaukee where someone started toward the cacher in an angry manner. I went there a little before they did by a week or four and the area is okay but some would consider it a fringe area based on local police reports.

 

For the one at the start of this thread I'd consider it in somewhat of a fringe area, 'tosa (Wauwatosa for the non-locals) is near there and isn't usually considered too bad. If you read the police reports or watch the news you'll see a fair amount of activity reported. It's not as bad as, say, 27th & Center, but not as nice as Main street in Menomonee Falls either.

 

I do a little real estate on a part time basis, I'd show a house around the cache site but only during certain hours and days, but I probably wouldn't look for a cache around there. Just my opinion and I'm fairly new to Geocaching so I can't and won't say what the cache owner should do. Maybe I'll drive by there on Sunday and have a quick look around.

[+~Hylife~]

The reason I ORIGINALLY put the cache in this park is because of it's size and location. I saw the little green block while searching for caches on the googlemap thing. I didn't even know it was there, and I didn't know how many others did either considering it was so small. We drove by there on a..Saturday night??..to place it, but there was a big basketball game going on, and I figured that 100 muggles on a park less than the size of one city block wasn't a good thing, so we retuned on Sunday and placed it when there was no one around.

 

Anyways, what I'm basically saying is, I did put this cache here for a reason, and it was NOT CITO; that was an afterthought. I was going to put the cache there BEFORE I even knew what it looked like. I didn't think the neighborhood grew that horrid four blocks from the Wauwatosa Washington Highlands.

 

I later learned that it was a park renamed as a Memorial of a kid who was murdered, and thought that was further reason to have a cache there. But, just as note, I was going to disable it after learning of all the problems finders had, until I got the log supporting the placement saying that they lived in the neighborhood and were glad to see it/positive attention there.

 

I don't think this playground is that bad of a location. I mean, sure, it's not the best, but you know what, people do live there, GOOD people, and so just not putting a cache there because it's a "BAD" neighborhood seems a little..I don't know..but not right..

 

Oh, and for the record, I WAS going to put the difficulty/terrain WAY up there, ALONG with the danger attribute, but I was advised not to as to not offend the locals..

 

Hylife, remember that we love you, and thank you for asking. (hugs)

 

Hylife, remember that we love you, and thank you for asking. (hugs)

 

ditto

 

Thank you, guys!! (Wow, I really did not expect to start such a large debate on here..)