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Well.. I for one don't see reminting a coin due to customer requests as a 'dishonest' practice.

 

I make a living doing artwork. Garmin makes money selling GPS's. Groundspeak makes money off of coin codes and TB's. Why does the 'feel good' responsibility start with Geocoins, or the people who make them?

 

So... Ill just agree to disagree.

 

The feel good part can come from an individual who can say "There is no limit as long as there is a demand", and not put a mystery number out there inticing people to but a "limited edition" whatever. Garmin and Groundspeak have never stated a limit on the number of GPSr's or travel bugs, and I would feel the same if they produced a "limited edition" gps or bug that actually had no limit.

 

I think if there is no limit on something then why place a number out there. It has to do with selling practices is all. I was fooled into thinking a stated number was an accurate representation of availability. I bought several geocoins thinking I had a good trade item due to scarcity. I was wrong as they will no longer be scarce because "the numbers that were listed were NOT to say they were the only coins to be minted.

It was to say this IS WHAT WAS MINTED and WHAT WILL BE AVAILABLE."

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The issue of reminting has come up several times with this group of designers and manufacturers. I think a simple, we may mint more if there is interest would have been appropriate. I think the community also needs to realize that this isn't the first time that CB and CM have reminted due to interest so don't believe the numbers that are presented because if there is demand there will be supply.

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What I can say is that a reminting is in the best interest of those people who are regular customers who have requested a remint. We RARELY do large numbers of reminted coins - sometimes the entire run is smaller than many other first editions.

 

However - I personally don't want to see a fiasco come from a sale that was CLEARLY not enough coins for our regulars, and whatever first time buyers who might want one. Then what happens is those people must pay the ebay prices to get one. I can tell you that the people who would rather trade for coins will still trade, even with the remint.

 

I spoke with CM earlier, and it looks like he is reminting 200 more coins. (100 gold, 100 silver) which would put the number at 500 - which again, is smaller than many first runs.

 

And.. theres plenty of time to trade. CM wont even return till Sept, so start swapping coins.

 

Again, its either "They should have estimated the demand" - which is almost next to impossible on a new coin design. Or, its make sure there is enough for the people who would like to own one, regardless of how or when you do it.

 

We have reminted before - usually we change enamel colors - honestly - alot of the time, I select a color or metal for the main sale, but I have my OWN personal preference for colors or metals - and, we have no idea what the appeal of MY opinion would be. (Pinks, purples, girly stuff!)

 

CM sometimes lets me have fun, and change up a design a little to try something new. So far, people seem to like this idea - but the coins are clearly different than the original minting.

 

Again... I see nothing wrong with a remint. If I missed out on a coin, Id love to have the opportunity to purchase it. And if I was planning on trading, I STILL would seek someone out to trade for the coin.

 

I collect coins I just genuinely like. I dont care about their value, or the worth. I dont even mind the trading aspect, or 'power'. We all know some people have an inflated idea of what some coins are 'worth'! :unsure:

 

But THATS another topic altogether.

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Why does the 'feel good' responsibility start with Geocoins, or the people who make them?

Because that's the way it USED to be in here. It's not out of the question for us to want to see it stay that way. :(

 

The issue of reminting has come up several times with this group of designers and manufacturers. I think a simple, we may mint more if there is interest would have been appropriate. I think the community also needs to realize that this isn't the first time that CB and CM have reminted due to interest so don't believe the numbers that are presented because if there is demand there will be supply.

Agreed. This exact same issue has come up before and I think it would be a good idea to avoid issues going forward by adding that simple statement to the sales notice/page.

 

Again... I see nothing wrong with a remint. If I missed out on a coin, Id love to have the opportunity to purchase it. And if I was planning on trading, I STILL would seek someone out to trade for the coin.

 

I collect coins I just genuinely like. I dont care about their value, or the worth. I dont even mind the trading aspect, or 'power'. We all know some people have an inflated idea of what some coins are 'worth'! :unsure:

 

Think about this: Would the Moun10Bike coins be as desirable if there were 1,000 of them made? No. Part of the reason they are collectible is because there are so few of them. The v1 is MUCH more desired than the v3 because of the numbers available.

 

You mentioned a number of times in this thread how YOU collect. You've also mentioned that you are a business. As such, your collecting practices don't matter - your customers do.

 

People collect for a number of reasons and buy extras specifically to trade for other coins. When somebody buys 3 of a coin where only 135 exist, that holds great trade value because not a lot of people have them. When more are made later it diminishes the value of the first coins because more are available.

 

C&B, please stop being so defensive and listen to what people are telling you. These are your customers and they are givinig you feedback.

 

If you are going to remint, it should really be a different metal or color.

 

But as always, caveat emptor.

 

Edit to add: I'd like to trade for a gold one if anybody has one. Contact me via PM.

Edited by kealia
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Again.. Ill agree to disagree.

 

And, I think Im often interpreted as defensive, when Im truly not. I simply have strong opinions, and voice them. Again, computers and the lack of 'interpretation' are wonderful for making people tell me how Im feeling! :unsure:

 

Bottom line is, we listen to the customers - many have asked for remints - including several in this thread.

 

I think different companies do things differently - and Im OK with that.

I just do the designs, and help with the creative part. I can say that from experience. Some mint large numbers, and never move the coins out - others mint too few, and leave people upset. CM and I have reminted - and have had alot of positive feedback.

 

I can't let a few negative comments override what was a sales thread... and I made my point. So, on that note, I made my point, and am done.

 

But I cannot separate being a collector from my job - I try and create coins I would want to collect!

 

As for Mount10bike coins - I would want one if I met him, or if we knew each other - even if we had spoken online a bit, but I dont collect coins JUST to collect a 'rare' coin. I collect what I like, the 'desirable' quality isnt the reason I usually make trades. (Not to say I wouldnt want one, but thats not why I collect, or trade coins.)

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I like the way they do it at the geocoinshop.com. He clearly states in the beginning how many of each metal will be made. He also states that no more will ever be minted again or that he reserves the right to mint additional coins. That way I know exactly what I am getting. I wish more companies had that practice.

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Jesus, people...what's with the gang mentality here?

 

CB puts out stunning coins and tries to make sure everyone has a shot at getting some and this is the thanks she gets?

 

It makes me sick to see you people bashing her just because of your selfish desires.

 

"Waah, it won't be as scarce anymore...it won't have as high a trade value!"

 

Those of you crying about how many she makes don't give a dang about her coin at all; you just want traders and coins to sell. You could care less about anything else but yourselves. I got one of each. That's all I want, because I collect coins for the art and not for their trade or sale value.

 

Jumping on someone who wants to meet collector's desires. Imagine that...getting bashed for wanting to help out fellow coin people. Where were you when they announced that more turtles would be minted, or have you forgotten?

 

I swear, the metallity of some people here makes me wonder why anyone makes coins.

Edited by Arthur & Trillian
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Jesus, people...what's with the gang mentality here?

 

CB puts out stunning coins and tries to make sure everyone has a shot at getting some and this is the thanks she gets?

 

It makes me sick to see you people bashing her just because of your selfish desires.

 

"Waah, it won't be as scarce anymore...it won't have as high a trade value!"

 

Those of you crying about how many she makes don't give a dang about her coin at all; you just want traders and coins to sell. You could care less about anything else but yourselves. I got one of each. That's all I want, because I collect coins for the art and not for their trade or sale value.

 

Jumping on someone who wants to meet collector's desires. Imagine that...getting bashed for wanting to help out fellow coin people. Where were you when they announced that more turtles would be minted, or have you forgotten?

 

I swear, the metallity of some people here makes me wonder why anyone makes coins.

 

Well since you felt the need to bring in another coin into this discussion, I feel I should respond to that portion. Obviously you don't see the difference between the the turtle coin and this coin and I'm not speaking about aesthetic value but the amount of people missing out on a coin. I don't know if CB/CM received hundreds of emails/requests for them to remint this coin, nor do I believe their server was crashed during the offering of this coin. Kind of different if you ask me on the amount of requests but that is only a guess by what I've observed (regarding these two coins). So, if you want to jump my case over a remint, you are welcome to come to the turtle thread and we can discuss it over there.

 

Obviously you and Paula are good friends but why are you taking this so personally? She is a big girl. A few people voiced their opinions, no one even said anything "bad" about her, the discussion actually seems pretty civil to me. I've seen alot worse on here...

 

~tsun

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Well since you felt the need to bring in another coin into this discussion, I feel I should respond to that portion. Obviously you don't see the difference between the the turtle coin and this coin and I'm not speaking about aesthetic value but the amount of people missing out on a coin. I don't know if CB/CM received hundreds of emails/requests for them to remint this coin, nor do I believe their server was crashed during the offering of this coin. Kind of different if you ask me on the amount of requests but that is only a guess by what I've observed (regarding these two coins). So, if you want to jump my case over a remint, you are welcome to come to the turtle thread and we can discuss it over there.

 

Obviously you and Paula are good friends but why are you taking this so personally? She is a big girl. A few people voiced their opinions, no one even said anything "bad" about her, the discussion actually seems pretty civil to me. I've seen alot worse on here...

 

~tsun

 

I didn't mean to single you out at all, Steph...that was not my intention and if you took it as such I apologize. I realize there were some site issues with your sale. I was just comparing people's reactions to the offering of more coins minted is all.

 

Another example...the FSM coin...they only made 250 to begin with but were people whining about a remint on those? Nope.

Edited by Arthur & Trillian
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I never expected quite the reaction to the coin that we had - as I'm sure most would agree - no one would ever 'assume' a coin will sell out so quickly.

 

As for a remint? I think that the emails I've gotten asking would justify reminting a few of these coins. I'll shoot an email over about it to the Castle Man, and let everyone know when he writes back.

 

The root cause at the center of reminting coin debate is the irrefutable arguement that a seller has failed to adequately serve their customers. There are several economic and behavioral factors which contribute to this phenomenom:

  • The seller inadequately estimates of the market demand
  • The seller has a lack of confidence in the coin design to sell a given quantity
  • The seller who is risk adverse to carrying inventory

I've heard all these excuses before, none the less, it is the geocoin buyers which ends up bearing the burden of their failures.

  • Geocoins sold out before demand has been satisfied which drives values on the secondary market
  • A decision is made to remint a sold out geocoin which does devalue of the original geocoin

To me this geocoin's beauty and universal appeal was severly underestimated. I don't see how a no-brainer like this could be such a disappointment to so many.

 

The question is, how can we as a united community of buyers and sellers use this as a learning opportunity to drive improvement so that we all are satisfied.

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I never expected quite the reaction to the coin that we had - as I'm sure most would agree - no one would ever 'assume' a coin will sell out so quickly.

 

As for a remint? I think that the emails I've gotten asking would justify reminting a few of these coins. I'll shoot an email over about it to the Castle Man, and let everyone know when he writes back.

 

The root cause at the center of reminting coin debate is the irrefutable arguement that a seller has failed to adequately serve their customers. There are several economic and behavioral factors which contribute to this phenomenom:Let me guess, you're a Marxist, lol

  • The seller inadequately estimates of the market demand The assumption here is that the seller knows who the market will be for the coin. Economics and behavior are subject to change depending on the stimulus. In my limited personal experience, many will say they like your design but that does not mean they will buy it. Many do not say anything and do buy it. Many people buy on impulse, the moment the frenzy begins, it tends to feed on itself, therefore more want in on something that could be of value later. Then there are those who completely miss the available window due to unforeseen circumstances. There is no way to know what the exact market for many products will be. The standard today for geocoins is 250 to 300 but there isn't a guarantee
     
  • The seller has a lack of confidence in the coin design to sell a given quantity That doesn't make sense, the seller is selling a given quantity, the usual 250 to 300. Also, just because the seller likes the design does not mean the general public will feel the same way.
     
  • The seller who is risk adverse to carrying inventory I concur with this statement and can completely understand why

I've heard all these excuses before, none the less, it is the geocoin buyers which ends up bearing the burden of their failures. Failure is a bit harsh in my opinion and if you're going to blame someone, blame both sides as this is an interaction of multi-faceted levels

  • Geocoins sold out before demand has been satisfied which drives values on the secondary market
  • A decision is made to remint a sold out geocoin which does devalue of the original geocoin

To me this geocoin's beauty and universal appeal was severly underestimated. I don't see how a no-brainer like this could be such a disappointment to so many. It's a no-brainer to you but there are plenty of people who did not buy it because the design did nothing for them or they couldn't afford it

 

The question is, how can we as a united community of buyers and sellers use this as a learning opportunity to drive improvement so that we all are satisfied.

 

I'm not sure if you have designed, fronted the $$$ for a coin or worked with a coin company for your own coin...if you have not, please give the process a try and then let everyone know how to improve the process. Like I've seen so many people say before: damned if you do, damned if you don't. It's so much easier to stand on the sidelines and point fingers

 

~tsun

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Another example...the FSM coin...they only made 250 to begin with but were people whining about a remint on those? Nope.

 

This is different. FSM said he didnt know if he would remint or not. He was on the fence. If you look back, I asked for clarification from FSM as well as others and after a couple of days, he came out and let us all know the status.

 

I can see why people are confused with this coin. Here is what I see when I go through the thread:

 

First Post:

 

There is also an Antique Copper Artist Edition.

A total of 300 were minted:

 

30 Antique Copper

135 Antique Gold

135 Antique Nickel

 

Post #31

 

They are going fast... very fast.

 

Under 50 total left, and less than 10 golds.

 

Post #35

 

Just a handful left...

 

Thanks to everyone who purchased. Im really glad you all loved the coin!

 

Post #36

 

WOW! SOLD OUT! ! ! !

 

All orders will ship tomorrow AM.

 

Thanks to everyone for a great sale!

 

So, when people see numbers in post 1 and when you get to post 36 saying all sold out, I can see how people get confused. Of course, I dont think Paula and Jim had that in mind at all and when they saw the demand for these, thought they were doing the collectors/buyers a favor.

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Why does the 'feel good' responsibility start with Geocoins, or the people who make them?

Because that's the way it USED to be in here. It's not out of the question for us to want to see it stay that way. :(

Traditionalism! A bold sentiment/ideal! B)

 

The issue of reminting has come up several times with this group of designers and manufacturers. I think a simple, we may mint more if there is interest would have been appropriate. I think the community also needs to realize that this isn't the first time that CB and CM have reminted due to interest so don't believe the numbers that are presented because if there is demand there will be supply.

Agreed. This exact same issue has come up before and I think it would be a good idea to avoid issues going forward by adding that simple statement to the sales notice/page.

Sadly, I agree. Much like the "too hot McDonalds Coffee" lawsuit proved, the general public sometimes needs to be treated as a child, to avoid misunderstandings. But in no way would I limit this to a particular group of minters or designers, it should be evenly applied to all geocoin sales, as other recent remint uproars have occured with other people, and singling out one group is not part of the feel-good responsibility.

 

Again... I see nothing wrong with a remint. If I missed out on a coin, Id love to have the opportunity to purchase it. And if I was planning on trading, I STILL would seek someone out to trade for the coin.

 

I collect coins I just genuinely like. I dont care about their value, or the worth. I dont even mind the trading aspect, or 'power'. We all know some people have an inflated idea of what some coins are 'worth'! :D

 

Think about this: Would the Moun10Bike coins be as desirable if there were 1,000 of them made? No. Part of the reason they are collectible is because there are so few of them. The v1 is MUCH more desired than the v3 because of the numbers available.

 

So then if CB had only minted 50 of these coins they would be way more desireable than the v1 Moun10Bike coins, "because of the numbers available." But so what? Did Moun10Bike create his so-called "limited" geocoins as a collectors item? Not sure, but he DID REMINT his v1 coins. So maybe the question needs to be addressed in a new thread about what constitutes a desireable amount of coins to mint, and how many is too many, so we will all know for future reference.

 

You mentioned a number of times in this thread how YOU collect. You've also mentioned that you are a business. As such, your collecting practices don't matter - your customers do.

Personally, I value CB's opinion as a collector/businessperson. I value most everyone's opinions, afterall this IS a forum. B) Have YOU sold a coin? Were there any issues that you had to respond to, and how did people react to any problems? Or are you speaking just as a collector, with no first-hand knowledge of the business side of things?

 

People collect for a number of reasons and buy extras specifically to trade for other coins. When somebody buys 3 of a coin where only 135 exist, that holds great trade value because not a lot of people have them. When more are made later it diminishes the value of the first coins because more are available.

Kinda like the hotly debated FSM coins. On another note, if you only have highly desireable coins how will you ever trade for the "less" desireable coins? Unless you are buying "rare" coins just to have an upper hand in your trades, which really doesn't follow with what you said about wanting the feel-good responsibility stay in the geocoin world, does it?

 

C&B, please stop being so defensive and listen to what people are telling you. These are your customers and they are givinig you feedback.

 

I believe CB has already stated that many customers are demanding a remint.

 

If you are going to remint, it should really be a different metal or color.

But if the "remint" is a new metal or color, it isn't a remint at all. Its a totally new version that will present the same desireability issues you are so concerned about.

 

But as always, caveat emptor.

Agreed. And always read the fine print. And if there is no fine print, don't make assumptions. Nowhere was it said that this was a limited minting. As stated in a thread started by our esteemed moderator FSM, limited runs are to be denoted by an "LE" label, and these coins were not labeled as such.

 

Edit to add: I'd like to trade for a gold one if anybody has one. Contact me via PM.

Shouldn't this have been put in the appropriate Trade Thread?

 

edit to add: Remember, it's a coin, not an ultra-desireable black market kidney. :unsure:

Edited by Woletrap
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The question is, how can we as a united community of buyers and sellers use this as a learning opportunity to drive improvement so that we all are satisfied.

 

I concur, we are a community here.

 

I don't think anyone would have a problem with more coins being minted as long as there was a warning at the beginning of the sale that more coins may be minted.

 

CB in the future will you be indicating at the start of the sale...that if the demand is there, you are reserving the right to remint? I know from reading this thread if it isn't posted, I will probably be asking.

 

I think any seller would stay away from the term reminting because it probably lessens the initial value and demand of the coin and could leave you with excess inventory.... but it leaves the collector/trader wondering will this be a coveted coin or won't it. I am sure as a collector/trader yourself you don't trade your AE or your reserve "SOLD OUT" coins for a lowly ol' monthly subscription geocoin- even if you do think the monthly subscription geocoin is AWESOME and you can still purchase it or find it in the reduced bin later. You know the value of your coin and you seek something comparable.

 

I think by reading post one of the thread, I as a consumer would have assumed only 300 were being made and that dictates how many I would buy. If I as a collector/trader think this particular coin is going to sale out, I will increase the amount I purchase thinking the trade value will allow me to obtain various other "sold out" or should I use HTF coins I may have missed in the past. If it sales out, it increases the value for a trade unless of course there is a reminting of the coin unbeknownst to the consumer!!! For the record, I didn't order any when it posted in an attempt to save money, I returned to make a purchase of a few and see they were sold out!!! UGH!!! My will power is working B)SO I am looking for a trade. I do buy some coins from CM and you on a fairly regular basis because I like most of what you as coin designers produce.

 

I think there were mistakes/assumptions on both the seller and consumer's part in regards to this coin. I think and this is just my opinion.... post #1 should have included the seller intention of reminting if the demand was there...but on the flip side as a consumer any one of us could have asked the simple question.."Will there be a remint if the coin sold out?" as in the FSM coin, which was dealt with prior to the sell.

 

We all know what happens to "u" and "me" when you assume something...so no comments from the peanut gallery :(

 

OOOOO, did I mention, I do like the coin a lot!!!

 

I vote "no" on the remint but if you do it, I would probably buy it!!!

 

So back to my :unsure:

 

Steel City Babes #8

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I don't think anyone would have a problem with more coins being minted as long as there was a warning at the beginning of the sale that more coins may be minted.

 

Agreed, clarity up front. IMHO as a frequent customer, these shouldn't be reminted. :unsure: If these are to be reminted, they should be in a different finish/metal. I'll probably buy one of each in that case, nice design.

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Jesus, people...what's with the gang mentality here?

 

CB puts out stunning coins and tries to make sure everyone has a shot at getting some and this is the thanks she gets?

 

It makes me sick to see you people bashing her just because of your selfish desires.

 

"Waah, it won't be as scarce anymore...it won't have as high a trade value!"

 

Those of you crying about how many she makes don't give a dang about her coin at all; you just want traders and coins to sell. You could care less about anything else but yourselves. I got one of each. That's all I want, because I collect coins for the art and not for their trade or sale value.

 

Jumping on someone who wants to meet collector's desires. Imagine that...getting bashed for wanting to help out fellow coin people. Where were you when they announced that more turtles would be minted, or have you forgotten?

 

I swear, the metallity of some people here makes me wonder why anyone makes coins.

 

Trading is a big factor in geocoins, look at the top pinned topic.

 

I am asking, why put a number out there that really doesn't exist. 300 geocoins stated on the front page is misleading. The 30 AE geocoins can sell as some are on their website for up to $50 each. What is to stop those from being reminted if there is a demand, as well as all other AE, XLE, and LE geocoins.

Is it okay to devalue the trades of some to make others happy? This would be your personal ideation. The people that are made happy today may be the people devalued tomorrow.

 

I did buy some to be traders thinking they were LE, 1 of 135, based on the posted and counted down numbers.

As I stated in my previous post, this is not the first time but will this become the norm and no-one knows what is truly LE, XLE, or AE anymore?

 

CB, my apologies for having complicated your coin sale thread. I bought several of these coins and they are great. I can't wait to see them in hand.

I truly hope your reminting is a success.

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I think everyone is also forgetting ONE KEY FACTOR here.

 

This was MY FIRST COIN SALE.

 

So.. thanks for the support. <-------Note sarcasm!

 

I had control over aspects of the sale - but as TS said, Ive seen coins I LOVE sell slower than ones that I just 'like', so I was indeed concerned about overestimating how many I could sell.

 

We had STRONGLY considered 500, but after talking to SEVERAL coin selling friends prior, I was advised to be safe and stick with 300.

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And, for the record.... an AE is limited. With the Sunbursts, I had an initial Artist Edition of Antique Copper. When I got low, and the coins were reminted - I requested a DIFFERENT AE of polished gold.

 

When those are gone, they are LONG gone. I have about 3 AE copper Easter Nav'Egg'Ation coins - you can imagine it would be hard to pry one out of my fingers with only 3 left. :cool:

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Mr.Explorer3 wrote:

 

What is to stop those from being reminted if there is a demand, as well as all other AE, XLE, and LE geocoins.

 

That would be ethics - which its a little sad someone would assume anyone would mint more LE's or XLE's - with CM and myself - that just would NOT happen. On any other minting with other coin producers - they too will not remint AE's or XLE's and I wouldnt ask them to.

 

Is it okay to devalue the trades of some to make others happy? This would be your personal ideation. The people that are made happy today may be the people devalued tomorrow.

 

Not to sound rude, but have you ever heard, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few?"

(And I mean it as a general statement - dont take it personally - which I know someone will. :cool: )

 

When a laundry list of our customers, many also friends - ask for more coins to be produced, along with people here on this thread - I just see nothing at all wrong with making a number more. Perhaps the answer is when WE do coin sales on OUR website is to LIMIT the amount of coins that can be purchased by any one person. (I speak for us only, not CM) Wouldnt this help? But wait - I got people upset about limiting the Artist Editions - Damned if I do, Damned if I dont.

 

CB, my apologies for having complicated your coin sale thread. I bought several of these coins and they are great.

 

Well, if you had a concern, I do wish you would not have taken the thread off in this direction. If you are concerned about the coins value, I would be happy to buy yours back.

 

Again, this was our FIRST coin sale on our own - and other than this BS on the forums - it was a great experience. All coins that were available are sold - all are mailed - IMO we did a good job.

 

I can guarantee that those who purchased this coin for their collections will love it - its got such incredible detail in person that cannot be captured in photos. Its a shame it turned into this - but, Ive stated my opinion, and stated how I felt about the idea of reminting.

 

Edited by CinemaBoxers
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I think everyone is also forgetting ONE KEY FACTOR here.

 

This was MY FIRST COIN SALE.

 

So.. thanks for the support. <-------Note sarcasm!

 

I had control over aspects of the sale - but as TS said, Ive seen coins I LOVE sell slower than ones that I just 'like', so I was indeed concerned about overestimating how many I could sell.

 

We had STRONGLY considered 500, but after talking to SEVERAL coin selling friends prior, I was advised to be safe and stick with 300.

I don't think claiming to be naive because it was your first coin sale will wash with anyone here. You have been in the buisness way too long and know it way better than alot of people here to play that card. I think you are really grasping to try that approach and that's not a very stand up position.

 

People can say whatever they want about you or anyone else, and they aren't always going to be right. You are right about one thing though, not everyone is going to be happy. For this reason alone, since you are looking to play it safe, is to stick with your original word and be true to it. State the number of coins being minted and don't waiver by peer pressure. Be true to that and that alone. They can get as mad as they like, but you can always say you are sticking to your word, and they can't get mad at that. They will actually respect you for it.

 

Minting in another color and such is nothing more than a way to get around your word and mint more, at least that is a major perception of it. They are coins and they are collected. People buy based on given facts. If the facts change, then they bought something under a false pretense and that is going to leave a bitter taste with them. While I know the customer isn't always right, in this case you really shold look at the bottom line rather than trying to shape it to fit what you wish to do. The people who will ask for a remint are people who didn't get them. That happens and they are just out of luck. I missed it as well but would never email asking for a remint since it was already stated how many were being made. Others in this thread are "defending" you and your actions, but that is more out of loyalty rather than an unbiased thought, and people are seeing that as well. It seems the majority of the people are speking out as paying customers or just honest collectors and trying to tell you this isn't a trend that is appreciated or considered ethical. Most are asking you to stick with the original numbers you decided to mint and not devalue their purchases. While you are entitled to make your money, they are also entitled to make theirs in their way, and you hve the ability to take their value and decrease it. They can't do that to you.

 

Just my view on it, but do as you like.

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I'm gonna step on toes...hope you brought your steel-toed boots...

 

I don't think anyone would have a problem with more coins being minted as long as there was a warning at the beginning of the sale that more coins may be minted.

 

Why should there be? If your (and I mean the generic "your" and not you personallly) life is so wrapped up in silly pieces of metal then you need to step back and take a breather if mintage figures matter that much.

 

Like I said before, the TRUE collectors of coins won't care if they make more; they buy them for the art they are and want to add that art to their collections. The ones who care less about the coin and more about themselves are the ones the DO care. They never wanted the coin...they want the coin's perceived value for that next trade. The coin to them is not art; it's a commodity to be traded like pork futures.

 

Case in point:

 

Agreed, clarity up front. IMHO as a frequent customer, these shouldn't be reminted. :cool: If these are to be reminted, they should be in a different finish/metal. I'll probably buy one of each in that case, nice design.

 

Sure, deny anyone else the chance to buy the coin if they like and want it. I mean, your buying power and desires should trump the possibly new geocoin collector getting one, right? :cool:

 

Trading is a big factor in geocoins, look at the top pinned topic.

 

I am fully aware that trading is a huge thing with geocoins. My point is and always has been, trade value should be trumped to allow people to get a coin if they want to from the source. I realize there are LE, XLE & AE coins and yes, those should be kept limited...but why limit regular-issue coins? Why should the desires of many be trumped by the selfish few?

 

Is it okay to devalue the trades of some to make others happy? This would be your personal ideation. The people that are made happy today may be the people devalued tomorrow.

 

The needs of many trump the few in this case. The few...you included...would want people scrambling to trade, offering their first born or whatever, just to obtain this coin. Why should they have to do this? Oh, I forgot...it screws with your trade values. At least we are clear where your priorities lie. :cool:

 

I did buy some to be traders thinking they were LE, 1 of 135, based on the posted and counted down numbers.

 

The coins were regular issue...not LE. I have no idea where you got this. The only LE coin was the copper.

 

As I stated in my previous post, this is not the first time but will this become the norm and no-one knows what is truly LE, XLE, or AE anymore?.

 

Who cares? Ever thought of collecting coins for their beauty instead of their value?

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Others in this thread are "defending" you and your actions, but that is more out of loyalty rather than an unbiased thought, and people are seeing that as well. It seems the majority of the people are speking out as paying customers or just honest collectors and trying to tell you this isn't a trend that is appreciated or considered ethical. Most are asking you to stick with the original numbers you decided to mint and not devalue their purchases.

 

Oddly enough, even if it was you in this position and not CB...I'd defend you just the same. It's not about loyalty; it's what I consider right.

 

The people complaining are not "honest collectors" because if they were they wouldn't be so strung up about the coin's perceived trade value.

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Like I said before, the TRUE collectors of coins won't care if they make more; they buy them for the art they are and want to add that art to their collections. The ones who care less about the coin and more about themselves are the ones the DO care. They never wanted the coin...they want the coin's perceived value for that next trade. The coin to them is not art; it's a commodity to be traded like pork futures.

 

This logic is flawed. It assumes your personal definition of true collector fits all. I guarantee you that is not the case for most collectors here.

 

One thing you forget, any collectible is a commodity.

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This logic is flawed. It assumes your personal definition of true collector fits all. I guarantee you that is not the case for most collectors here.

 

One thing you forget, any collectible is a commodity.

 

True...I see your point.

 

Let me put it another way...crake made well over 1000 of his Tracking Time coins...and they are still highly collectible. What's the difference between his coin and CB's? Mintage number doesn't always dictate collectibility.

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Oddly enough, even if it was you in this position and not CB...I'd defend you just the same. It's not about loyalty; it's what I consider right.

And you are entitled to your opinion. It just doesn't make it right. It is only your perception of what is right. Seems most people in this thread disagree though.

 

The people complaining are not "honest collectors" because if they were they wouldn't be so strung up about the coin's perceived trade value.

Are you saying the people who want a company to stick to their word on a minting number are not honest collectors and have no say in this matter? :cool:

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Please note I am glad your coin did exceptionally well. The sale of your coin should have a great time. I think you have to take the good with the bad as mentioned previously by yourself and others you will not make everyone happy!

 

I think everyone is also forgetting ONE KEY FACTOR here.

 

This was MY FIRST COIN SALE.

 

So... thanks for the support. <-------Note sarcasm!

 

Now, I guess my concern is since this was "Your first coin sale" have you taken any of the feedback from those that opposed your thoughts/opinions into consideration for your next sale?

 

In other words, as a seller have you learned anything helpful? And will you change anything for your next sale?

 

Just wondering for a piece of mind. Trying to become an educated consumer.

 

Your sarcastic..."thanks for the support!" left me a bit baffled. If you didn't have support your coin would never have sold out as quickly as it did?

 

Steel City Babes

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Let me put it another way...crake made well over 1000 of his Tracking Time coins...and they are still highly collectible. What's the difference between his coin and CB's? Mintage number doesn't always dictate collectibility.

 

True, mintage number doesn't guarantee a coin to be collectible or not. One difference with Crake is that out front he states he will mint all his coins to meet demand. Once the demand deminishes, the coin is retired. So collectors at the very least should know what to expect well in advance with any Crake produced coin. That's not the case here.

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Oddly enough, even if it was you in this position and not CB...I'd defend you just the same. It's not about loyalty; it's what I consider right.

And you are entitled to your opinion. It just doesn't make it right. It is only your perception of what is right. Seems most people in this thread disagree though.

 

The people complaining are not "honest collectors" because if they were they wouldn't be so strung up about the coin's perceived trade value.

Are you saying the people who want a company to stick to their word on a minting number are not honest collectors and have no say in this matter? :cool:

 

That as well as you don't have a life. :cool:

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This logic is flawed. It assumes your personal definition of true collector fits all. I guarantee you that is not the case for most collectors here.

 

One thing you forget, any collectible is a commodity.

 

True...I see your point.

 

Let me put it another way...crake made well over 1000 of his Tracking Time coins...and they are still highly collectible. What's the difference between his coin and CB's? Mintage number doesn't always dictate collectibility.

You are right. The number minted is not always THE issue but it is an important factor amongst coins. Why else would it be stated in many opening coin release announcements? Why else would it be one of the first things asked about in a new coins thread? Why else would it be used as a major tool in selling or trading of a coin? Why else would alot of coins have sequential numbering? A coin still must stand on it's own to be a good coin. But the number of coins minted is also a factor into the pricing of a coin. LEs typically are sold at a higher cost because they are more exclusive.

 

While collecting means one thing to you, it means another to someone else. They bought these coins with their money, not yours, and for their reasons, not yours. They have the right to expect an honest sales description when buying it, and for it not to be changed throughout the sale. There is nothing wrong with that. To each their own, but you can't lump everyone here under your umbrella of collecting.

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Im going to stop my participation in the discussion of reminting by saying this:

 

I never called the coins LE, or stated that more would NOT be made.

The Copper IS the "LE"

 

The decision to remint is not only my own - it also is up to CM who is on vacation. But, we are planning to remint 200 more of these coins. I support that decision.

 

I knew anything I say will be taken personally, or dissected. (As per usual)

 

But, to say that my saying this is my first sale is an 'excuse' is outright BS.

I usually only deal with art, blueprints, etc. So, think its an excuse if you like, but frankly, Im not used to my posts being gone over with a fine tooth comb looking for errors I might have made.

 

Steel City - I absolutely appreciate all those who purchased the coin. PLEASE read back through this thread and see how many times I said thanks. But I find that alot of people posting on the negative end do so for the sake of being negative - and likely did not, and never intended to buy the coin.

 

What a shame - because I left out a sentence I had NO IDEA anyone wanted to hear, and that I havent seen on other coin sale posts.

And.. I have indeed seen other coins reminted when there was no notification given prior to sale. Its just specifically THIS one, and my mistake of posting numbers to let people know what I had available.

 

But on the other hand.. I see why I got a certain banned coin. :cool:

Edited by CinemaBoxers
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The hypocrisy in this thread amazes me...doesn't suprise me, though.

 

Still no answer to this?

 

I see everyone's point, but I fail to see why it's such an issue if anyone makes more coins than originally intended.

 

No one complained when tsun or FSM or countless others made more RE coins.

 

Why now?

Edited by Arthur & Trillian
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I see everyone's point, but I fail to see why it's such an issue if anyone makes more coins than originally intended.

 

No one complained when tsun or FSM or countless others made more RE coins.

 

Why now?

The difference is that both tsun and FSM minted coins with different finishes. IIRC and feel free to correct me, this is what CinemaBoxers said she was going to do as well and I think that it is an excellent compromise : the trading value of the original coins are preserved and yet the basic coin design is available for those who missed out on the coin for the original sale. What better solution can there be, given the circumstances?

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Not gonna move from my perch on the fence here. I appreciate this coin design. But I will add an obvious fact/effect of this debate: When I posted a trade request in the trading thread, the offers I got were pretty demanding. I posted again in here after the talk of reminting started, and the offers were reasonable. Not the first time anyone has seen this, but it does support the theory that posting quantity limits affects how people purchase (and subsequently covet) a product here. Changing those numbers after the demand has been assessed is certainly the vendor's right. However, the buyer may indeed feel a bit deceived "after the fact". Right or wrong, that's just how consumers can view it.

 

That's my "non-refundable, only available in stores, your mileage may vary" two cents.

 

Yime

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I did buy some to be traders thinking they were LE, 1 of 135, based on the posted and counted down numbers.

As I stated in my previous post, this is not the first time but will this become the norm and no-one knows what is truly LE, XLE, or AE anymore?

 

That may be true (despite the recent thread defining all that stuff), but it certainly does not apply to this coin as the 135's were not labeled as LE, and I truly mean no offence by this but its your fault alone if you simply assumed they were LE even though they were not labeled as such, especially since there were others labeled as AE. Why didn't you or anyone else ask about this BEFORE the sale? I'm really curious.

 

 

I don't think claiming to be naive because it was your first coin sale will wash with anyone here. You have been in the buisness way too long and know it way better than alot of people here to play that card.

I disagree with what you think here, as CB has always been backstage, doing art, not minting/selling. So it washes just fine with me, and I don't care for generalizations that seem to include me when you say "anyone here."

 

People can say whatever they want about you or anyone else, and they aren't always going to be right.

I'm sure you're keeping in mind that some here might say"Right back at ya!" :cool:

 

Minting in another color and such is nothing more than a way to get around your word and mint more, at least that is a major perception of it.

It may be YOUR major perception of it, but nowhere did it say there was an LE version. Nowhere did CB give her word that she wouldn't mint more of the regular edition. There were two regular metals and one AE metal.

 

They are coins and they are collected. People buy based on given facts. If the facts change, then they bought something under a false pretense and that is going to leave a bitter taste with them.

Please elaborate on what facts have changed. I'd like to know how this statement applies to this coin. And again, if there were any confusion or even any curiosity, anyone could have asked for a clarification instead of assuming CB forgot to say LE. The only question posted in this thread prior to sale was one about the sale time. That's it. This is a forum! Ask questions!

 

Others in this thread are "defending" you and your actions, but that is more out of loyalty rather than an unbiased thought, and people are seeing that as well. And what would you call your posts? And why do you still generalize and lump everyone together to make your points? How dare you assume I am blindly defending someone and am incapable of unbiased thought! That kind of statement is offensive and really is not needed in the geocaching/geocoin community.

 

It seems the majority of the people are speking out as paying customers or just honest collectors and trying to tell you this isn't a trend that is appreciated or considered ethical.

Your sweeping generalizations of what the rest of us are thinking also isn't a trend that is appreciated. I'd love to hear your thoughts, rather than what you say other people are thinking.

 

Most are asking you to stick with the original numbers you decided to mint and not devalue their purchases.

Don't forget about the emails sent to CB from all the people that don't want to come into this thread.

 

 

And you are entitled to your opinion. It just doesn't make it right. It is only your perception of what is right.

I hope you can look into a mirror and say this to yourself, too. :cool:

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