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What's with the religious stuff?


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A geocacher recently visited one of my Earthcaches where you had to answer questions related to the geology of the area. This cacher decided that he did not agree with any of the geological theories about the area and that it wasn't as old as proven by radiometric and other testing. It was really God who formed the

area 6,000 years ago but "made it look older" - 4.5 million years old!

 

I mean really...why even go for the cache? What was the point for interjecting his religious beliefs?

 

I wanted to ask this cacher: Why on earth would God do that? Didn't (s)he have more important things to do?

 

Actually, the religious right wing who try to discredit geological/scientific fact will say the opposite - that "satan made the rock look older" or "satan is deceiving scientists with the numbers derived from radiocarbon dating" - now if he really said "God made it look older" than he is more ignorant the most of the ignorants.

 

Huh, that's the first time I've ever heard that, and I'm a card-carrying member of the 'religious right wing', except I lost my card. Are you sure you're not just making that up? Because most of us believe that God made the world, you see, not the devil.

 

But maybe I'm just ignorant. I do know I'm offended at being labelled ignorant because I don't agree with you.

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Oh, if only things were just that black and white, then wouldn't we all be much happier?

 

Unfortunately, we live in a full techno-color world my friend.

 

Geocaching is a game. For many, it is more than just a box in the woods. It is a moment of escape from the daily grind and stresses that we have to deal with every day in our world. A long hike in the woods to a very secluded and beautiful spot only to be et with seeing some token of religion is not what some people really want to see. If folks wanted to see that, there are sooo many other places they can turn to. For most, they just want to see real "junk" such as toy cars, bangles, etc. Silly and funny stuff - nothing heavy handed. That is the whole point of geocaching. Again, it should not be a platform or a vehicle for these types of things, no matter how two or more Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc. feel about it. Why can't we cache is "people" rather than "Christians" or "Jews" - despite what you THINK the Gospels teach, you don't have to bring your religion into EVERYTHING you do especially where others are involved who simply do not want to hear about or or see it.

 

And again, for those PM'ing me, stop. Because if it were entirely up to me, again, nothing short of human body parts in a cache would bother me at all. Bibles, korans, sex toys, porn, ammo, etc. I could care less if it were only me, but I recognize there are children, ladies, Jews, non-Jews, Christians, non-Christians, etc who all visit these caches, so I understand that there are any things that are just not appropriate for a number of reasons. Some reasons very obvious and ones that may be debatable. But nonetheless, I recognize that.

So you are saying we all need to respect the likes and dislikes of all other cachers and not place any swag the might not like?

 

 

Then how 'bout this then.

 

I hate NASCAR! I don't want to see little race in caches any more.

 

or

 

I'm a Neo-Nazi so I don't want to see anything about any race, culture or heritage but that of the Aryans.

 

or

 

I hate the Green-living tree-huggin' hippies so I don't want to see anything that has to do with conservation or nature in any shape form or fashion.

 

or

 

I'm a Pacifist-Anarchist so I don't want to see any swag the has anything to do with any government, country, patriotic emblem or that in any way mentions or depicts the military or military equipment.

 

The list could continue until there is no swag at all.

 

Where do we draw the line.

 

Just to let you know I don't like religious swag either. That's why I just ignore it.

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NYC must be full of agnostics. I have not seen one religious item.

 

I'm Agnostic. I don't fear or feel threatened by religion or religious items.

 

I got a perfectly good rosary in the mail the other day. I tossed the fund raising solicitation and slipped the rosary into my cachin swag. I'll leave it in a cache sooner or later....

 

What I can't stand is when someone thinks that being Agnostic also makes me an Atheist, so I made some cache swag to trade for religious items and religious TBs I find worthy of trading for.

3b38ade5-9599-43e9-9742-b78854f0c861.jpg

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Nerves, I find your avatar offensive - please remove it :mad:

 

(Kidding, only kidding)

 

I looked quickly at where you're from and did a double take. SEMN??! :P

 

That's about as bad as SNEG MA (Southern New England Geocachers, Massachusetts)

 

(I know, I know...off topic...)

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A geocacher recently visited one of my Earthcaches where you had to answer questions related to the geology of the area. This cacher decided that he did not agree with any of the geological theories about the area and that it wasn't as old as proven by radiometric and other testing. It was really God who formed the

area 6,000 years ago but "made it look older" - 4.5 million years old!

 

I mean really...why even go for the cache? What was the point for interjecting his religious beliefs?

 

I wanted to ask this cacher: Why on earth would God do that? Didn't (s)he have more important things to do?

 

Actually, the religious right wing who try to discredit geological/scientific fact will say the opposite - that "satan made the rock look older" or "satan is deceiving scientists with the numbers derived from radiocarbon dating" - now if he really said "God made it look older" than he is more ignorant the most of the ignorants.

 

Huh, that's the first time I've ever heard that, and I'm a card-carrying member of the 'religious right wing', except I lost my card. Are you sure you're not just making that up? Because most of us believe that God made the world, you see, not the devil.

 

But maybe I'm just ignorant. I do know I'm offended at being labelled ignorant because I don't agree with you.

 

I did not say YOU were ignorant, I just said people who go around saying that geological fact is the "work of the devil" as "he is deceiving you" are ignorant. And even more so, someone saying that God is the one making it "look old" is even more ignorant.

 

If I must, I will dig up the article on how some right wing religious group who went out to the grad canyon and interrupted a tour when a park ranger was discussing the age of each layer of rock and they went of on their tirade about how it is al untrue, the Earth is only 6,000 years old and all scientific fact is are deceptions of the devil.

 

So again, if I *MUST* I will reference that article. But again, I did not say YOU were ignorant, unless of course you agree with such nonsense (even the Catholic church and most non-canonical Christians agree that the science is correct).

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It's not the swag but the message that someone is trying to deliver that really rots my socks.

And that is my point.

 

For the record I'm not a Christain. If I am anything I'm a pagen or maybe a believer in the Great Spirit or, as I have been labled by Christian to my face, a heathan. I also think their message is.... off the mark (I'm trying to be nice here).

I'm not saying the message is right or that you have to ascept it, I'm just saying you should just ingore the swag.

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A geocacher recently visited one of my Earthcaches where you had to answer questions related to the geology of the area. This cacher decided that he did not agree with any of the geological theories about the area and that it wasn't as old as proven by radiometric and other testing. It was really God who formed the

area 6,000 years ago but "made it look older" - 4.5 million years old!

 

I mean really...why even go for the cache? What was the point for interjecting his religious beliefs?

 

I wanted to ask this cacher: Why on earth would God do that? Didn't (s)he have more important things to do?

 

Actually, the religious right wing who try to discredit geological/scientific fact will say the opposite - that "satan made the rock look older" or "satan is deceiving scientists with the numbers derived from radiocarbon dating" - now if he really said "God made it look older" than he is more ignorant the most of the ignorants.

 

Huh, that's the first time I've ever heard that, and I'm a card-carrying member of the 'religious right wing', except I lost my card. Are you sure you're not just making that up? Because most of us believe that God made the world, you see, not the devil.

 

But maybe I'm just ignorant. I do know I'm offended at being labelled ignorant because I don't agree with you.

 

I did not say YOU were ignorant, I just said people who go around saying that geological fact is the "work of the devil" as "he is deceiving you" are ignorant. And even more so, someone saying that God is the one making it "look old" is even more ignorant.

 

If I must, I will dig up the article on how some right wing religious group who went out to the grad canyon and interrupted a tour when a park ranger was discussing the age of each layer of rock and they went of on their tirade about how it is al untrue, the Earth is only 6,000 years old and all scientific fact is are deceptions of the devil.

 

So again, if I *MUST* I will reference that article. But again, I did not say YOU were ignorant, unless of course you agree with such nonsense (even the Catholic church and most non-canonical Christians agree that the science is correct).

 

"Even" the Catholic Church, huh? Nice phrasing there.

 

Whatever.

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Oh, if only things were just that black and white, then wouldn't we all be much happier?

 

Unfortunately, we live in a full techno-color world my friend.

 

Geocaching is a game. For many, it is more than just a box in the woods. It is a moment of escape from the daily grind and stresses that we have to deal with every day in our world. A long hike in the woods to a very secluded and beautiful spot only to be et with seeing some token of religion is not what some people really want to see. If folks wanted to see that, there are sooo many other places they can turn to. For most, they just want to see real "junk" such as toy cars, bangles, etc. Silly and funny stuff - nothing heavy handed. That is the whole point of geocaching. Again, it should not be a platform or a vehicle for these types of things, no matter how two or more Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc. feel about it. Why can't we cache is "people" rather than "Christians" or "Jews" - despite what you THINK the Gospels teach, you don't have to bring your religion into EVERYTHING you do especially where others are involved who simply do not want to hear about or or see it.

 

And again, for those PM'ing me, stop. Because if it were entirely up to me, again, nothing short of human body parts in a cache would bother me at all. Bibles, korans, sex toys, porn, ammo, etc. I could care less if it were only me, but I recognize there are children, ladies, Jews, non-Jews, Christians, non-Christians, etc who all visit these caches, so I understand that there are any things that are just not appropriate for a number of reasons. Some reasons very obvious and ones that may be debatable. But nonetheless, I recognize that.

So you are saying we all need to respect the likes and dislikes of all other cachers and not place any swag the might not like?

 

 

Then how 'bout this then.

 

I hate NASCAR! I don't want to see little race in caches any more.

 

or

 

I'm a Neo-Nazi so I don't want to see anything about any race, culture or heritage but that of the Aryans.

 

or

 

I hate the Green-living tree-huggin' hippies so I don't want to see anything that has to do with conservation or nature in any shape form or fashion.

 

or

 

I'm a Pacifist-Anarchist so I don't want to see any swag the has anything to do with any government, country, patriotic emblem or that in any way mentions or depicts the military or military equipment.

 

The list could continue until there is no swag at all.

 

Where do we draw the line.

 

Just to let you know I don't like religious swag either. That's why I just ignore it.

 

As Groundspeak puts it, use common sense when placing items. Common sense = nascar items ok, even thought you hate nascar. Common sense. Neo-nazi items = not ok. Common Sense. Conservation = ok. Comon Sense. Political agenda pushing = not ok. Common sense.

 

You draw the line at where common sense stops. But I guess common sense is one of those deceptions of the devil, huh. :mad:

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It's not the swag but the message that someone is trying to deliver that really rots my socks.

And that is my point.

 

For the record I'm not a Christain. If I am anything I'm a pagen or maybe a believer in the Great Spirit or, as I have been labled by Christian to my face, a heathan. I also think their message is.... off the mark (I'm trying to be nice here).

I'm not saying the message is right or that you have to ascept it, I'm just saying you should just ingore the swag.

 

Ignore the swag! And that is what YOU do. Why? Because it doesn't bother you. It is what I do. Why? Because it doesn't bother me either.

 

But the whole purpose and point I am trying to make is what doesn't bother me or you, may bother others. So have a little respect when placing any type of these items to think "my this items possibly offend someone?" rather than "this items doesn't offend me, but if it offends someone else, they can just ignore it"

 

I am sorry, I cannot agree with that mindset.

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A geocacher recently visited one of my Earthcaches where you had to answer questions related to the geology of the area. This cacher decided that he did not agree with any of the geological theories about the area and that it wasn't as old as proven by radiometric and other testing. It was really God who formed the

area 6,000 years ago but "made it look older" - 4.5 million years old!

 

I mean really...why even go for the cache? What was the point for interjecting his religious beliefs?

 

I wanted to ask this cacher: Why on earth would God do that? Didn't (s)he have more important things to do?

 

Actually, the religious right wing who try to discredit geological/scientific fact will say the opposite - that "satan made the rock look older" or "satan is deceiving scientists with the numbers derived from radiocarbon dating" - now if he really said "God made it look older" than he is more ignorant the most of the ignorants.

 

Huh, that's the first time I've ever heard that, and I'm a card-carrying member of the 'religious right wing', except I lost my card. Are you sure you're not just making that up? Because most of us believe that God made the world, you see, not the devil.

 

But maybe I'm just ignorant. I do know I'm offended at being labelled ignorant because I don't agree with you.

 

I did not say YOU were ignorant, I just said people who go around saying that geological fact is the "work of the devil" as "he is deceiving you" are ignorant. And even more so, someone saying that God is the one making it "look old" is even more ignorant.

 

If I must, I will dig up the article on how some right wing religious group who went out to the grad canyon and interrupted a tour when a park ranger was discussing the age of each layer of rock and they went of on their tirade about how it is al untrue, the Earth is only 6,000 years old and all scientific fact is are deceptions of the devil.

 

So again, if I *MUST* I will reference that article. But again, I did not say YOU were ignorant, unless of course you agree with such nonsense (even the Catholic church and most non-canonical Christians agree that the science is correct).

 

"Even" the Catholic Church, huh? Nice phrasing there.

 

Whatever.

 

Uhhp!! There it is! There it is! When all else fails, start it picking at grammar and taking things way out of context - very Fox News of you! I *KNOW* you understand what I was saying and I am not going to sit here and have to explain to anyone as if they were 4 year olds the context of that statement. If you are THAT eager to get on my ignore list, you just start playing that game. If not than lets continue to have a heated debate, but keep it at that. None of this petty Hannity/Limbaugh/Bortz/Savage garage.

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As Groundspeak puts it, use common sense when placing items. Common sense = nascar items ok, even thought you hate nascar. Common sense. Neo-nazi items = not ok. Common Sense. Conservation = ok. Comon Sense. Political agenda pushing = not ok. Common sense.

 

You draw the line at where common sense stops. But I guess common sense is one of those deceptions of the devil, huh. :mad:

I think you missed my point.

 

Let me see if I understand what you are saying. Christians materials should not be placed in a caches because they might offend somebody. Is that correct?

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It's not the swag but the message that someone is trying to deliver that really rots my socks.

And that is my point.

 

For the record I'm not a Christain. If I am anything I'm a pagen or maybe a believer in the Great Spirit or, as I have been labled by Christian to my face, a heathan. I also think their message is.... off the mark (I'm trying to be nice here).

I'm not saying the message is right or that you have to ascept it, I'm just saying you should just ingore the swag.

 

Ignore the swag! And that is what YOU do. Why? Because it doesn't bother you. It is what I do. Why? Because it doesn't bother me either.

 

But the whole purpose and point I am trying to make is what doesn't bother me or you, may bother others. So have a little respect when placing any type of these items to think "my this items possibly offend someone?" rather than "this items doesn't offend me, but if it offends someone else, they can just ignore it"

 

I am sorry, I cannot agree with that mindset.

 

I don't place religious swag, but this thread is tempting me to start. :mad: (Temptation does come from the devil, btw.) No, don't worry, I'm not going to do it, but I think the point here is that anything placed in a cache could be viewed as potentially offensive, if viewed critically. Have a FTF prize to a local steakhouse? Vegans could get offended - it shows a lack of respect. Right? Put in a toy globe? A member of the Flat Earth Society member could have a fit. And so on.

 

If you don't like it, ignore it. Swag put in a cache isn't out to get you.

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A geocacher recently visited one of my Earthcaches where you had to answer questions related to the geology of the area. This cacher decided that he did not agree with any of the geological theories about the area and that it wasn't as old as proven by radiometric and other testing. It was really God who formed the

area 6,000 years ago but "made it look older" - 4.5 million years old!

 

I mean really...why even go for the cache? What was the point for interjecting his religious beliefs?

 

I wanted to ask this cacher: Why on earth would God do that? Didn't (s)he have more important things to do?

 

Actually, the religious right wing who try to discredit geological/scientific fact will say the opposite - that "satan made the rock look older" or "satan is deceiving scientists with the numbers derived from radiocarbon dating" - now if he really said "God made it look older" than he is more ignorant the most of the ignorants.

 

Huh, that's the first time I've ever heard that, and I'm a card-carrying member of the 'religious right wing', except I lost my card. Are you sure you're not just making that up? Because most of us believe that God made the world, you see, not the devil.

 

But maybe I'm just ignorant. I do know I'm offended at being labelled ignorant because I don't agree with you.

 

I did not say YOU were ignorant, I just said people who go around saying that geological fact is the "work of the devil" as "he is deceiving you" are ignorant. And even more so, someone saying that God is the one making it "look old" is even more ignorant.

 

If I must, I will dig up the article on how some right wing religious group who went out to the grad canyon and interrupted a tour when a park ranger was discussing the age of each layer of rock and they went of on their tirade about how it is al untrue, the Earth is only 6,000 years old and all scientific fact is are deceptions of the devil.

 

So again, if I *MUST* I will reference that article. But again, I did not say YOU were ignorant, unless of course you agree with such nonsense (even the Catholic church and most non-canonical Christians agree that the science is correct).

 

"Even" the Catholic Church, huh? Nice phrasing there.

 

Whatever.

 

Uhhp!! There it is! There it is! When all else fails, start it picking at grammar and taking things way out of context - very Fox News of you! I *KNOW* you understand what I was saying and I am not going to sit here and have to explain to anyone as if they were 4 year olds the context of that statement. If you are THAT eager to get on my ignore list, you just start playing that game. If not than lets continue to have a heated debate, but keep it at that. None of this petty Hannity/Limbaugh/Bortz/Savage garage.

 

Oh, so that's what that nice little report button is for. :mad: Never used it before.

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As Groundspeak puts it, use common sense when placing items. Common sense = nascar items ok, even thought you hate nascar. Common sense. Neo-nazi items = not ok. Common Sense. Conservation = ok. Comon Sense. Political agenda pushing = not ok. Common sense.

 

You draw the line at where common sense stops. But I guess common sense is one of those deceptions of the devil, huh. :mad:

I think you missed my point.

 

Let me see if I understand what you are saying. Christians materials should not be placed in a caches because they might offend somebody. Is that correct?

 

ANY religious/political material/items, however remote it may be to pushing a agenda, should not be placed in caches as not not offend.

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Ok. I have had enough for the night. Everyone - christians, atheists, jews, neo-nazi's, agnositcs, etc. Just go caching tomorrow. Leave this kind of silliness alone for a while, if you feel you must dial your brain and IQ down to -1 - there is always Fox News!

I hope you don't think I'm trying to attack you or your opinion. In fact I'm trying to understand your perspective on this.

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As Groundspeak puts it, use common sense when placing items. Common sense = nascar items ok, even thought you hate nascar. Common sense. Neo-nazi items = not ok. Common Sense. Conservation = ok. Comon Sense. Political agenda pushing = not ok. Common sense.

 

You draw the line at where common sense stops. But I guess common sense is one of those deceptions of the devil, huh. :mad:

I think you missed my point.

 

Let me see if I understand what you are saying. Christians materials should not be placed in a caches because they might offend somebody. Is that correct?

 

ANY religious/political material/items, however remote it may be to pushing a agenda, should not be placed in caches as not not offend.

So what your saying is that anything that could offend anyone else should not be in a cache?

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Ok. I have had enough for the night. Everyone - christians, atheists, jews, neo-nazi's, agnositcs, etc. Just go caching tomorrow. Leave this kind of silliness alone for a while, if you feel you must dial your brain and IQ down to -1 - there is always Fox News!

I hope you don't think I'm trying to attack you or your opinion. In fact I'm trying to understand your perspective on this.

 

I didn't, I am just being silly in that sense.

 

My perspective, I think anyway, is quite simple. I do not think any of these types of materials/items belong in the cache, no matter how harmless they may seem to you and I or many others. That care should be taken when placing them in there. What may seem like a very kind and gentle gesture of love by placing a rosary into a cache, may be viewed by someone who does not believe Catholicism as someones ideology being pushed upon them when all they wanted to do was play a game. Think of it like playing a game of monopoly, very benign very unassuming. But someone at milton-bradley thought it would be a nice gesture to replace some of the chance cards with religious sayings and thought it would be nice to print saints on some of the monopoly money. Again, while that wouldnt bother me (i would think it was quite funny) and may even warm your heart, may be quite offensive to someone who doesn't believe in that and was not expecting to see it. Where I am having a complete disconnect is not asking people to agree with me but to try to put their own convictions aside for just a minute and understand the point I am trying to make.

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As Groundspeak puts it, use common sense when placing items. Common sense = nascar items ok, even thought you hate nascar. Common sense. Neo-nazi items = not ok. Common Sense. Conservation = ok. Comon Sense. Political agenda pushing = not ok. Common sense.

 

You draw the line at where common sense stops. But I guess common sense is one of those deceptions of the devil, huh. :mad:

I think you missed my point.

 

Let me see if I understand what you are saying. Christians materials should not be placed in a caches because they might offend somebody. Is that correct?

 

ANY religious/political material/items, however remote it may be to pushing a agenda, should not be placed in caches as not not offend.

So what your saying is that anything that could offend anyone else should not be in a cache?

 

When you can show me where I said that, then I will agree that is what I said. But since those words have never left y fingers tips to this forum, then of course, you will figure a way to take it out of context AGAIN, common sense. And read one of my other recent replies that may help explain yet another angel to the point I am trying to make that is either being missed because of ignorance or missed because someone is so vehemently for the placement of these types of objects.

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[To use analogies again, if a neo-nazi leaves a swastika in a cache so that another neo-nazi who might want it, is this ok with you? Even though the swastika may offend most people. So if you do see those types of items that you ay find offensive, just make sure you "stay strong"

 

When I was about 12 years old we lived in Bangladesh and at the time there was a long running war between the Hindus of India and the Muslims of Bangladesh. There was gunfire and bombs going off all the time. Then one day I saw a swastika someone painted on a building that I passed on the way to school. The next day the building was bombed. I thought, 'cripes, now we have the Nazis in this war too??' From that moment on I didn't sleep for about six months. I figured it was a good thing Mom had me take a rifle markmanship course at age 10 because I was sure there were going to be boot stompin' Nazis with big guns coming through my bedroom door at night never mind the enraged Muslims and Hindus.

 

One day someone told me that particlar swastika was a Hindu symbol and 'see, it's pointing to the left, not the right like the Nazis' swastika'.

 

Just goes to show how much emotion a symbol can evoke.

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As Groundspeak puts it, use common sense when placing items. Common sense = nascar items ok, even thought you hate nascar. Common sense. Neo-nazi items = not ok. Common Sense. Conservation = ok. Comon Sense. Political agenda pushing = not ok. Common sense.

 

You draw the line at where common sense stops. But I guess common sense is one of those deceptions of the devil, huh. :mad:

I think you missed my point.

 

Let me see if I understand what you are saying. Christians materials should not be placed in a caches because they might offend somebody. Is that correct?

 

ANY religious/political material/items, however remote it may be to pushing a agenda, should not be placed in caches as not not offend.

So what your saying is that anything that could offend anyone else should not be in a cache?

 

When you can show me where I said that, then I will agree that is what I said. But since those words have never left y fingers tips to this forum, then of course, you will figure a way to take it out of context AGAIN, common sense. And read one of my other recent replies that may help explain yet another angel to the point I am trying to make that is either being missed because of ignorance or missed because someone is so vehemently for the placement of these types of objects.

That's why I asked. I just wanted to clarify.

 

I feel I understand your point now. In fact it seems we probably have many of the same beliefs or opinions. Like you said earlier this is a Technicolor world. Once you start saying you should not put item x in cache because it's not what others want to find in the cache after a hard day, then somebody WILL say that you can't put in item y because they don't want to find it.

I will admit that my earlier post about not putting little cars or flags in a cache was a tad bit of stretch, but the idea behind it was sound. This one statement sums it up.

ANY religious/political material/items, however remote it may be to pushing a agenda, should not be placed in caches as not not offend.

But who's definition of agenda do we use. Can I place a breast cancer awareness pin in a cache? That definitely pushes an agenda. What about a Go Army hat pin? That is political and pushes an agenda. Should they be excluded?

Once again not trying to pick at you, but where do we draw the line, and who makes that decision as to what things are or aren't pushing an agenda?

 

Edit for spelling.

Edited by Totem Clan
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I don't see it this way RoN. Many of us are lost sheep and we know it. So if you were one of these people how would you want to be treated? With scorn?

 

Anyhow, I think caches are a tacky place to try to spread religion.

 

Who said anything about scorn? I don't remember anywhere in scripture that says treat anyone with scorn? Maybe I missed it :mad:

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I live in a Dutch-heritage community and sometimes leave Delft and other Dutch swag in my caches for the tourists. I hadn't thought of all the non-Hollanders I'm probably offending; someone should have stepped in earlier on their behalf.

Edited by bflylady
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Politics and Religion

 

Two things guaranteed to start wars.

 

Politics, Religion and Lame Micros :P Personally, I think people will fight over just about anything... It's just that there's not much middle ground with politics and religion (actually, similar to the battles over micros) :mad:

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I don't see it this way RoN. Many of us are lost sheep and we know it. So if you were one of these people how would you want to be treated? With scorn?

 

Anyhow, I think caches are a tacky place to try to spread religion.

Who said anything about scorn? I don't remember anywhere in scripture that says treat anyone with scorn? Maybe I missed it :mad:
You left out what you said and I'm too lazy to go back and look, but as I remember it seemed to be a bit fire and brimstonish to me...
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I don't see it this way RoN. Many of us are lost sheep and we know it. So if you were one of these people how would you want to be treated? With scorn?

 

Anyhow, I think caches are a tacky place to try to spread religion.

Who said anything about scorn? I don't remember anywhere in scripture that says treat anyone with scorn? Maybe I missed it :mad:
You left out what you said and I'm too lazy to go back and look, but as I remember it seemed to be a bit fire and brimstonish to me...

 

I know what you are talking about.. The burning building scenario..

 

If a Christian truely believes scripture, then they believe that there are a good chunk of folks out there that aren't going to fair too well. How does that make you feel that they are willing to keep it to themselves and not share what they feel will lead to your eternal suffering? Regardless of what the truth is, that sucks.. I'd expect more from my worst enemy than a lot of so called "Christians" contribute to society... Like I said, I've got many friends who are agnostic or atheist and I have more respect for them than a lot of the Christians I run across... They know where I stand and I know where they stand. At least they are being true to themselves and not saying they are one thing and act like something completely different..

 

What's this have to do with swag again? Oh yeah! If you don't like the swag, trade up. Sounds simple enough to me.

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I've bit my lip over this thread for awhile. And I don't want to get into the middle of things.

 

But I do want to offer another thought.

 

I'm a Christian. Heck, I'm studying to be a Pastor! IF I were to choose to leave a sig item (which I'm still working on), it would probably be something Christian.

 

It's a representation of who I am. A piece of me.

 

I'm not placing it to convert you (since I don't think anyone but God can actually do that). I'm not placing it to offend or annoy you. I'm playing the game in the way that I understand it. It's my understanding that we can trade swag. It's my understanding that we can design and distribute a "signature item" that is somehow representative of us.

 

If you can leave your coin with your logo on it, why can't I leave my card with a small cross pin on it? It's an honest representation of who I am.

 

~Ariel

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I don't see it this way RoN. Many of us are lost sheep and we know it. So if you were one of these people how would you want to be treated? With scorn?

 

Anyhow, I think caches are a tacky place to try to spread religion.

Who said anything about scorn? I don't remember anywhere in scripture that says treat anyone with scorn? Maybe I missed it :mad:
You left out what you said and I'm too lazy to go back and look, but as I remember it seemed to be a bit fire and brimstonish to me...

 

I know what you are talking about.. The burning building scenario..

 

If a Christian truely believes scripture, then they believe that there are a good chunk of folks out there that aren't going to fair too well. How does that make you feel that they are willing to keep it to themselves and not share what they feel will lead to your eternal suffering? Regardless of what the truth is, that sucks.. I'd expect more from my worst enemy than a lot of so called "Christians" contribute to society... Like I said, I've got many friends who are agnostic or atheist and I have more respect for them than a lot of the Christians I run across... They know where I stand and I know where they stand. At least they are being true to themselves and not saying they are one thing and act like something completely different..

 

What's this have to do with swag again? Oh yeah! If you don't like the swag, trade up. Sounds simple enough to me.

I wasn't referring to anything. I was just talking. So you have less respect for a Christian that makes human mistakes than a non-Christian that makes human mistakes? Whatever...

 

Back on topic. If I found some religious trinket from some other religion from across the world in a cache, I would be curious. I've found those little buddah guys before. I always wonder what things they believe that may be in common. We seem to focus on differences more than commonalities. Why is that?

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I don't mind religious trade items in a Cache. I have an aluminum coin with the Ten Commandments that is not anyones signature item, but it has an equal spot in my binder with all the other tokens/nickels/coins/cards.

I've also taken (and left) recorded sermons. A sermon can be interesting and helpful to Christians as well as many people who aren't Christians.

 

What I don't like to see are the low quality and poorly handled religious themed items that some people refer to as "Jesusware" or "Jesus Junk". Actually, I don't like finding ANY items that are in that condition.

 

As an example, a handfull of foam stickers tossed into the bottom of a Cache, or flyers stuck into every Cache that imply "If you don't follow our way, you're going to He...", are the kinds of religious items I don't like to see.

 

A signature card that's also printed with a favorite verse, a token or coin refering me to look up a passage, something like a keyring/charm/zipper pull, all of these are more likely to be picked up by me, even though I am not a Christian.

 

Those other things I mentioned, will likely be pulled and end up in a barrel.

 

HaHa. I've even started working on making some religious themed trade items to leave, just to prove that "Religious Themed" does not have to be "Trash".

Edited by WRITE SHOP ROBERT
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I wasn't referring to anything. I was just talking. So you have less respect for a Christian that makes human mistakes than a non-Christian that makes human mistakes? Whatever...

 

You're the one who decided to engage TG. I have less respect for someone that says one thing and does another than someone who says and does what they say. Its silly to twist my words, whats the point? Like you said, whatever...

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I wasn't referring to anything. I was just talking. So you have less respect for a Christian that makes human mistakes than a non-Christian that makes human mistakes? Whatever...

You're the one who decided to engage TG. I have less respect for someone that says one thing and does another than someone who says and does what they say. Its silly to twist my words, whats the point? Like you said, whatever...
I get it. You think non-Christians never say one thing and do another. Anyhow, who would want to be part of a religion that if you mess up at it sometimes then you are dissed? No wonder people leave. Anyhow, let's just drop it.
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I've bit my lip over this thread for awhile. And I don't want to get into the middle of things.

 

But I do want to offer another thought.

 

I'm a Christian. Heck, I'm studying to be a Pastor! IF I were to choose to leave a sig item (which I'm still working on), it would probably be something Christian.

 

It's a representation of who I am. A piece of me.

 

I'm not placing it to convert you (since I don't think anyone but God can actually do that). I'm not placing it to offend or annoy you. I'm playing the game in the way that I understand it. It's my understanding that we can trade swag. It's my understanding that we can design and distribute a "signature item" that is somehow representative of us.

 

If you can leave your coin with your logo on it, why can't I leave my card with a small cross pin on it? It's an honest representation of who I am.

 

~Ariel

That's a great way to tie your beliefs in with the swag you leave. A signature card/coin/token that also has a part that represents you as a Christian would quickly end up in my sigitem collection. People need to remember that not every religious themed item is meant to preach to them or convert them, but can be a representation of the one who placed it.

 

Another poster said they (a Christian) were now considering creating a religious themed item to leave after reading this thread. I am not a Christian, but I have started working on some religious themed items to leave as swag, just to prove that "Religious Themed" does not have to mean "Trash". That idea of mine was spawned by a discussion in another thread.

___________________________________________________-

 

On another note, can we dispense with the depate over "RELIGION", and keep the replies to the topic of "RELIGIOUS STUFF". This part of the topic would also apply to any other "RELIGIOUS STUFF" even if it is not Christian.

 

I'm a bit surprised to see that the moderation has not asked for an end to the debate over Christianity, and steered the topic back to STUFF.

 

This topic is about STUFF, so lets please keep to the topic. Thanks

Edited by WRITE SHOP ROBERT
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I'm a Christian. Heck, I'm studying to be a Pastor! IF I were to choose to leave a sig item (which I'm still working on), it would probably be something Christian. [...]why can't I leave my card with a small cross pin on it? It's an honest representation of who I am.

The short answer is, you can. :P

 

Obviously I cut out a lot of your post, but that was just to get to the heart of it. If you read this thread and all the others that have been on these forums over the years, you'll see there is a group concensus of sort...

 

Very few people object to a personal sig item (preferably of decent quality and in good taste) left in a cache--even if that personal sig item is of a religious nature. We can paw past that one item if it doesn't hold meaning for us. We can trade out for that one item if we admire it.

 

Most of us admit we dislike finding a cache purposefully stuffed full of tasteless, shoddy, and cheap junk-quality swag of any nature--and quite a few are even more offended when it of a religious nature. Some because they feel it is forcing them to deal with religion and some because they feel it demeans that religion to be associated with the junk.

 

Most of the rest of this long argument-filled thread resurrected from last year is the usual people (plus the usual unsuspecting newcomer) trying to split hairs on the very slightest nuiances of every word with infinite intricacy to demonstrate our great skills at debate just because "that's just how we roll". It can be ignored if all you want is an reasonable answer. :mad:

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People really need to realize that religion is nonsense. Place your pins or crosses or whatever and go home and pray and worship and all that other stuff, but in the end, nature prevails. Religious people need to wake up and get real. Religion is nonsense. Just live your life and enjoy it.

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So, if I dropped a pentacle into a cache or a copy of the necronomicon into a cache, it is ok?

Sure! Why not? The Pentacle out-dates Christianity. I've got two, one for me and one for She Who Must Be Obeyed. I would question how you would go about dropping a copy of the Necronomicon, as it is a fictional book invented by H. P. Lovecraft, as a story prop. Since I've read every Lovecraft book I know of, I'd love to have a copy.

 

- now if he really said "God made it look older" than he is more ignorant the most of the ignorants.

Or smarter than us all. :D

Personally, I wasn't around 5 million years ago, so I honestly can't say how certain geological features came to be. Sure, I could accept as a given what some machine told me, or I could assume The Great Flying Spaghetti Monster made it that way. The biggest fault with scientific facts is that they are constantly being replaced with other scientific facts. I prefer the angle of, "This is what I believe to be true, and this is how I came to that belief".

I hope that doesn't make me "ignorant". My beliefs, for the most part, coincide nicely with current scientific theory.

A study of the history of science will tell you that scientists are almost always wrong, and that they will maintain steadfastly that their facts are the only truth, (not unlike an Evangelist), until you drag them, kicking and screaming, to a new set of facts.

 

None of this petty Hannity/Limbaugh/Bortz/Savage garage.

How very fair and balanced of you. :D

 

if you feel you must dial your brain and IQ down to -1 - there is always Fox News!

Wow. Am I the only one feeling the blind hatred here?

Incidentally, my IQ was a bit higher than 1 the last time it was tested. (about 130 points higher)

I watch Fox News.

Would that make me an anachronism?

 

Religion is nonsense.

To you, perhaps. Not to others. Like so many others things in life, religion is what you make of it. It can be a positive force for a community, or it can be the driving hatred that kills "unbelievers". Neither end of the spectrum really qualifies as nonsense, but oft times, the middle can get pretty silly.

 

Pretty kewl potential bumper sticker:

"God is Dead! Nietzsche 1882

"Nietzsche is Dead" God 1900

:P:mad::D:P:D

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There is a fine line between being proud of a religion, and preaching one. I'd say most people would be offended at preaching items (such as tracts), but ok with rosaries, crosses, ect.

I actually couldn't care less about what I find in a cache, as I usually don't trade or even look at the trade items, but I usually will read the entire logbook.

 

TRADED:

 

Heros for ghosts.

Hot ashes for trees.

Hot air for a cool breeze.

Cold comfort for change.

 

Did you exchange..?

 

:mad:

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So, if I dropped a pentacle into a cache or a copy of the necronomicon into a cache, it is ok?

Sure! Why not? The Pentacle out-dates Christianity. I've got two, one for me and one for She Who Must Be Obeyed. I would question how you would go about dropping a copy of the Necronomicon, as it is a fictional book invented by H. P. Lovecraft, as a story prop. Since I've read every Lovecraft book I know of, I'd love to have a copy.

 

- now if he really said "God made it look older" than he is more ignorant the most of the ignorants.

Or smarter than us all. :D

Personally, I wasn't around 5 million years ago, so I honestly can't say how certain geological features came to be. Sure, I could accept as a given what some machine told me, or I could assume The Great Flying Spaghetti Monster made it that way. The biggest fault with scientific facts is that they are constantly being replaced with other scientific facts. I prefer the angle of, "This is what I believe to be true, and this is how I came to that belief".

I hope that doesn't make me "ignorant". My beliefs, for the most part, coincide nicely with current scientific theory.

A study of the history of science will tell you that scientists are almost always wrong, and that they will maintain steadfastly that their facts are the only truth, (not unlike an Evangelist), until you drag them, kicking and screaming, to a new set of facts.

 

None of this petty Hannity/Limbaugh/Bortz/Savage garage.

How very fair and balanced of you. :D

 

if you feel you must dial your brain and IQ down to -1 - there is always Fox News!

Wow. Am I the only one feeling the blind hatred here?

Incidentally, my IQ was a bit higher than 1 the last time it was tested. (about 130 points higher)

I watch Fox News.

Would that make me an anachronism?

 

Religion is nonsense.

To you, perhaps. Not to others. Like so many others things in life, religion is what you make of it. It can be a positive force for a community, or it can be the driving hatred that kills "unbelievers". Neither end of the spectrum really qualifies as nonsense, but oft times, the middle can get pretty silly.

 

Pretty kewl potential bumper sticker:

"God is Dead! Nietzsche 1882

"Nietzsche is Dead" God 1900

:P:mad::D:P:D

Great post, and no, you weren't the only one feeling blind hatred. Fortunately you saved me the trouble of a wordy response. Thanks!

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Religion is nonsense.

To you, perhaps. Not to others. Like so many others things in life, religion is what you make of it. It can be a positive force for a community, or it can be the driving hatred that kills "unbelievers". Neither end of the spectrum really qualifies as nonsense, but oft times, the middle can get pretty silly.

 

Yes. Unfortunately, others continue to believe in the non existent phenomenon of "religion". Either way, religion is nonsense to me. Unfortunately, as long as it is not nonsense to other people, it only leads to prejudice and hatred.

 

It comes down to this:

 

Be religious, and hate other people and believe that people who don't believe what you believe are uneducated, etc., etc.

 

Or. Forget religion and it's nonsense, and let people think what they want to think. If they think they shouldnt watch R rated movies......thats cool! If they think abortion should be legal....thats cool!

 

I say we get real and forget the segregation (caused by religion) and we make intelligent decisions that make sense.

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