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What's with the religious stuff?


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I'm sorry, but I'm with Team Cotati on this. We should "respect" the guys who took out the twin towers and "go on with our lives"? Sorry, I'm not tolerant of other's belief when that leads them to trying to kill me and mine.

this reflects a poor understanding on islam, and attempts to place blame for brutal violence of some people on an entire faith. if you'd like to survey history for atrocities motivated by religion, you have no father to look than your own backyard, in your own era. there are stupid people everywhere willing to go on crusade or jihad and to kill viciously in the name of God.

If this reflects a poor understanding of Islam, the poor understanding is in the minds of the terrorists that use it to justify their violence. I don't see anything from The Jester that shows any misunderstanding of Islam on his part.

Not all Muslims are malicious, and Islam is not the only religion that gets used as an excuse for hurting or controlling people.

 

Some Muslims use religion to justify killing people.

 

Some Southern Baptists (and their lawmaker friends) use religion to justify laws which prevent the citizens of my state (Georgia) from purchasing alcoholic beverages on Sunday.

 

Same same. The difference between those two examples, while extreme, is only a matter of degree. In each case the rights of good people are being denied in the name of religion.

 

I don't think any of this applies to the topic, however, which I understood to be the acceptability or appropriateness of pro-religious reading material in geocaches.

 

Like I said:

I disagree with all religions equally. None of them offends me as long as they respect my rights to life, liberty and property. The occasional you-should-believe-like-I-do paper advertisement doesn't bother me. I actually find them to be somewhat entertaining.
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uh, TTJ?

 

usually i follow you pretty clearly. i can't make sense of this one. li'l help?

 

...or should i not worry my pretty little head about it?

 

sudden derailment:

 

i was thinking of coming to visit your neck of the woods this weekend, but it didn't work out.

 

soon, i hope. i want to work it out so i can be there on a sunday.

Heh... That post went south really fast due to a sudden lack of interest, partly due to the realization that a discussion about 9/11 didn't have much to do with the topic. Basically, trying to point out that the example given (terrorists) didn't really apply to the topic at hand.

 

My original post:

Yes, it does. It takes imagination to think up ways that it doesn't apply. :unsure:
was actually meant to point out that the post prior:
No it dosen't. Not by any stretch if your or the driver's imagination.
had no reasoning given to back it up. Perhaps I should have kept that in mind and thanked him for giving reason for his statement finally. :(

 

Speaking of off topic: B)

 

Cool! Next Sunday (not tomorrow) is Calumet's "Giant Church Picnic," there'll be lots going on. This, of course, means I'll be up to my armpits that day, but it is always fun. If ya come later than that, you might even hear me preach (I have no solid dates for that, I usually get asked a couple days before... heh) and I'll have some free time in the afternoon to maybe catch a cache or 2.

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Some of you may know me and what I believe. But I don't care what religious stuff in a cache. Except for one thing. I don't like seeing tracks, pamplets of churches in there. No matter what faith it is Christian or non Christian.

Now if you want to put a Cross, Star of David, Crescent Moon, Rosary, Pentagram, small bible, small koran, Tora, or even stuff from the FSM or what ever it is I don't care. Just keep the tracks and pamplets out of there is all I have to say.

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Some of you may know me and what I believe. But I don't care what religious stuff in a cache. Except for one thing. I don't like seeing tracks, pamplets of churches in there. No matter what faith it is Christian or non Christian.

Now if you want to put a Cross, Star of David, Crescent Moon, Rosary, Pentagram, small bible, small koran, Tora, or even stuff from the FSM or what ever it is I don't care. Just keep the tracks and pamplets out of there is all I have to say.

 

Nope, haven’t had the chance to meet up yet.

 

I completely agree, I have no problems with those items either but would prefer that people would only leave Sweet Potato tracts if they leave any tracts at all.

 

But considering that most don't read the forums or listen to me when they do I'll just take the tracts out and leave something else in its place. Complaining about it here don't seem to make much difference.

 

bd

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Some of you may know me and what I believe. But I don't care what religious stuff in a cache. Except for one thing. I don't like seeing tracks, pamplets of churches in there. No matter what faith it is Christian or non Christian.

Now if you want to put a Cross, Star of David, Crescent Moon, Rosary, Pentagram, small bible, small koran, Tora, or even stuff from the FSM or what ever it is I don't care. Just keep the tracks and pamplets out of there is all I have to say.

 

I think you said it well.

 

Why can't people just look over these items? Some people feel they have to go and make a big deal out of everything.

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i dunno. i actually read a tract from a cache once. i thought it was silly, all that talk of hell and damnation. i put it back and went whistling on my way.

 

my biggest beef with tracts as well as hockey schedules and business cards is that unprotected paper products don't fare well in caches and are yicky.

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i have the fun distinction of having found religious stuff in caches BEFORE july 2005, when i was an atheist, and after july 2005 when i became converted while geocaching.

 

no, it was not a tract. go find the logs yourself if you want to know.

 

now as then i am not offended by concrete items like crosses, beads, crystals, blah, blah, blah. don't care which religion you practice.

 

i am more bugged now by tracts and pamphlets than i ever was. when i used to see these things i could toss them off as being just another stupid thing from the stupid christians. now i'm vaguely embarrased as you might be by the backward behavior of a cousin at a family outing.

 

i am annoyed now and do not feel right joining with my friends in derisive laughter, yet i can't quite bring myself to defend these things.

 

there's no point in getting all offended by any of it. if you want to talk to me about why your personal living god is the only real god, my flesh will not burn. my ears will not blacken and rot. i may be bored, or i may point out to you why you're being silly.

 

if you leave notes about it in caches, i will think you're an idiot, and if your note is dirty or crumpled i will remove it without a thought and relegate it to the floor of the passenger side of my car.

 

i can't bother to be offended.

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Not all Muslims are malicious, and Islam is not the only religion that gets used as an excuse for hurting or controlling people.

 

Some Muslims use religion to justify killing people.

 

Uh...right. I don't think I said anything different.

 

Some Southern Baptists (and their lawmaker friends) use religion to justify laws which prevent the citizens of my state (Georgia) from purchasing alcoholic beverages on Sunday.

 

Same same. The difference between those two examples, while extreme, is only a matter of degree. In each case the rights of good people are being denied in the name of religion.

 

Not "same same". I don't support blue laws or such, but there is NO comparison. Sorry.

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Some Southern Baptists (and their lawmaker friends) use religion to justify laws which prevent the citizens of my state (Georgia) from purchasing alcoholic beverages on Sunday.

 

Same same. The difference between those two examples, while extreme, is only a matter of degree. In each case the rights of good people are being denied in the name of religion.

Not "same same". I don't support blue laws or such, but there is NO comparison. Sorry.

I disagree. As I said, a denial of rights occurs in both examples. One is simply more extreme. The other has the capacity to become just as extreme under the wrong circumstances.

 

While most Christians are good folks, there are members of the Christian religious right who are just itching to take over the US government in order to impose their 'correct' moral code. They've already contaminated the Republican Party beyond repair. If we ever give these folks the absolute power they crave, you can be sure that things will be much worse than a few annoying blue laws. The Bill of Rights replaced by the Ten Commandments? Morality Cops stationed in every bedroom? An unlikely possibility, but a possibility just the same – enough to justify careful vigilance by freedom-loving people.

 

Christians have historically proven that they can be just as dangerous and malicious as any other religion. Islam certainly doesn't hold the copyright on murderous fundamentalist extremism.

 

Ignorance and religion is a dangerous combination. Add a wacky charismatic leader and a weak government to the cocktail and you've got real trouble.

 

Now ... what did this have to do with the topic?

 

Oh yeah:

 

I don't think any of this applies to the topic ... which I understood to be the acceptability or appropriateness of pro-religious reading material in geocaches.

 

Like I said:

I disagree with all religions equally. None of them offends me as long as they respect my rights to life, liberty and property. The occasional you-should-believe-like-I-do paper advertisement doesn't bother me. I actually find them to be somewhat entertaining.

If you want to discuss this other stuff any further we should probably move the conversation over to the Off Topic forum.

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Some Southern Baptists (and their lawmaker friends) use religion to justify laws which prevent the citizens of my state (Georgia) from purchasing alcoholic beverages on Sunday.

 

Same same. The difference between those two examples, while extreme, is only a matter of degree. In each case the rights of good people are being denied in the name of religion.

 

Not "same same". I don't support blue laws or such, but there is NO comparison. Sorry.

 

:unsure: What, you don't think preventing people from getting drunk is the same kind of evil as blowing up a pizza parlor?

 

A difference of degree is like using a nuke versus using a knife to kill people.

 

Now I'm going to watch television, which is the same evil as muslim violence, just a matter of degree :( .

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I'm sorry, but I'm with Team Cotati on this. We should "respect" the guys who took out the twin towers and "go on with our lives"? Sorry, I'm not tolerant of other's belief when that leads them to trying to kill me and mine.

 

this reflects a poor understanding on islam, and attempts to place blame for brutal violence of some people on an entire faith. if you'd like to survey history for atrocities motivated by religion, you have no father to look than your own backyard, in your own era. there are stupid people everywhere willing to go on crusade or jihad and to kill viciously in the name of God.

 

If this reflects a poor understanding of Islam, the poor understanding is in the minds of the terrorists that use it to justify their violence. I don't see anything from The Jester that shows any misunderstanding of Islam on his part.

 

i did not see any evidence that he considers them to be different. if in fact he is not making a tie between terrorists who happen to be muslim and muslims, i apologize.

 

onward christian soldiers...

 

/ironic humming

 

Jester, what say you? Did I miss something? I see no reference to Islam / Muslims in your post. You seem to have been refering to specific terrorists that use (their perverted form of) Islam as front.

Nope, no reference to Islam/Muslims. I know that the terrorists were/are using a perverted version of their religion to support their actions - just as others have done with Christianity in the past. That wasn't my point at all. My comment was against the

"True tolerance means that even though you may not agree with someone's beliefs, you can respect them and then go on with your own life."
This wasn't restricted to geocaching and religious swag.

 

As to items in a cache, if you don't like them, ignore them. The trade them/treat them as you value them won't fly with me. If my beliefs are that any icon is bad, then I can CITO geocoins as trash, becasue to me they are bad/worthless.

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Nope, no reference to Islam/Muslims. I know that the terrorists were/are using a perverted version of their religion to support their actions - just as others have done with Christianity in the past. That wasn't my point at all. My comment was against the
"True tolerance means that even though you may not agree with someone's beliefs, you can respect them and then go on with your own life."

When you put it that way it makes a lot of sense. Considering that sometimes people try to justify their murderous actions by their religious beliefs, I have to agree with you.

 

There is no reason to try to be tolerant of a malicious or intolerant theology.

 

Disrespect doesn't deserve respect.

 

Intolerance doesn't deserve tolerance.

 

I'm with you now. :unsure:

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Funny, but...

 

I am merely promoting tolerance...

 

Isn't prohibiting certain things just because you don't like them being intolerant? Why do those who are opposed to religion, Christianity especially, scream "tolerance" while being unmovingly intolerant towards Christianity? If you don't like it just ignore it and move on.

 

I said nothing about prohibiting, I am expressing *my preference* that people avoid proselytizing in the game. Can people tolerate my even havng this preference? Proselytizing can easily be taken to unpleasent levels.

I said nothing about being opposed to any particular religion, just annoying proselytizing and using the game as a platform for an agenda.

I am not asking that people set aside their religion for a short time... as if such were possible!. I am merely asking that people consider another time and place for proselytizing.

It is so obvious that religious pluralism is necessary as to not need repeating. I am advocating no law or change to the game rules. I notice you didnt requote the geocaching rule/guideline I posted:

 

"Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda. " Now, this geocaching.com guideline appears in the context of creating caches, but the careful reference to "geocaching" as a whole, not just "caches," makes clear the intention.

Edited by 2brnot2b
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The thread's topic is "religious trade items in geocaches." Discussions of comparative religion, bad things done in the name of religion, the goals of the ACLU and other tangents belong in the Off Topic forum.

 

This is a formal warning to stay on topic. Thank you.

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The thread's topic is "religious trade items in geocaches." Discussions of comparative religion, bad things done in the name of religion, the goals of the ACLU and other tangents belong in the Off Topic forum.

 

This is a formal warning to stay on topic. Thank you.

 

In that spirit, are there rules or guidelines that deal with the placing of such trade items in caches?

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Ok, I am going to chime in here. While I rarely post here, I do read the forums frequently. Does religious propaganda in caches offend me? YES, just the same way pamphlets for AA and political candidates offends me. Am I going to make a huge issue of it? No, unless those are the only things I am finding in caches.

 

Caching is a hobby of the masses. This means that anything is likely going to be found in the caches we all seek. Quoting directly from the GC web site there is nothing that says such propaganda is not allowed in caches.

" What shouldn't be in a cache?

Use your common sense in most cases. Explosives, ammo, knives, drugs, and alcohol shouldn't be placed in a cache. Respect the local laws. All ages of people hide and seek caches, so use some thought before placing an item into a cache.

Food items are ALWAYS a BAD IDEA. Animals have better noses than humans, and in some cases caches have been chewed through and destroyed because of food items in a cache. Please do not put food in a cache. "

 

Making a big deal over finding this type of garbage in caches is one way to increase the amount of this crud being put in them. People who are such zealots to be putting the crud in will take complaints as a challenge that they must increase their efforts to 'rescue the lost'.

 

Just my opinion and observations from the past.

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Ok, I am going to chime in here. While I rarely post here, I do read the forums frequently. Does religious propaganda in caches offend me? YES, just the same way pamphlets for AA and political candidates offends me. Am I going to make a huge issue of it? No, unless those are the only things I am finding in caches.

 

It offends you? Seriously, I don't see any point in putting these pamphlets in caches either, but really, I don't know if I'd go that far. :cool:Offended, eh?

 

 

Maybe I should get offended sometime. It seems to be all the rage these days.

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What I find truly amazing is that people are so insecure in their own identity that the mere presence of an inanimate object "offends" them and make them "mad."

 

ANY object could offend someone in our society. If you don't like something, then leave it alone, ignore it. The mere presence of an item will not harm you in any way.

 

If one is so insecure in their own beliefs and identity that an object in a Geocache offends them and makes them upset, I would say they have much bigger personal issues than what they find in a cache.

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What I find truly amazing is that people are so insecure in their own identity that the mere presence of an inanimate object "offends" them and make them "mad."

 

ANY object could offend someone in our society. If you don't like something, then leave it alone, ignore it. The mere presence of an item will not harm you in any way.

 

If one is so insecure in their own beliefs and identity that an object in a Geocache offends them and makes them upset, I would say they have much bigger personal issues than what they find in a cache.

 

Oh really? How about a pack of condoms....a dildo....depictions of child abuse.....cards containing "dirty jokes"....legal or illegal drugs? I believe that it is a stated goal of this game to be and remain family friendly. That unfortunatly expands the scope of potentially offensive material significantly beyond your or my personal beliefs and preferences.

Edited by Team Cotati
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Okay let me jump in here again and get everything straightened out here. There are RULES and GUIDELINES in what is placed in caches.

 

If there is a moderator out there please correct me if I am wrong.

 

No food in caches.

No flammable or combustible material. (Lighters, matches, etc.....)

No type of weapons (Guns, rounds, knifes, razor blades etc.....)

No information that will promote a business, religion, program, political party etc.....

 

Everything needs to be family friendly. How hard can that be. Like I said earlier I don't care if you put symbols in there. I think it is sorta interesting to see different stuff. I have even seen a serenity coin in one. Now that is cool. I know what that stands for. But it was a sig item for someone. Just be real careful what you put in a cache. The only paper that should be in there is the log and calling cards from cachers (you know what I mean by that).

 

I think I might be done. So Happy caching. :cool:

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What I find truly amazing is that people are so insecure in their own identity that the mere presence of an inanimate object "offends" them and make them "mad."

 

ANY object could offend someone in our society. If you don't like something, then leave it alone, ignore it. The mere presence of an item will not harm you in any way.

 

If one is so insecure in their own beliefs and identity that an object in a Geocache offends them and makes them upset, I would say they have much bigger personal issues than what they find in a cache.

 

Oh really? How about a pack of condoms....a dildo....depictions of child abuse.....cards containing "dirty jokes"....legal or illegal drugs? I believe that it is a stated goal of this game to be and remain family friendly. That unfortunatly expands the scope of potentially offensive material significantly beyond your or my personal beliefs and preferences.

 

clap3.gif

 

I think you might have just hit the head on the nail. I'm glad you brought up the other things you listed. I forgot about those. I also thought it would be common sense not to put that stuff in a cache. But I guess I am wrong.

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Okay let me jump in here again and get everything straightened out here. There are RULES and GUIDELINES in what is placed in caches.

 

If there is a moderator out there please correct me if I am wrong.

 

No food in caches.

No flammable or combustible material. (Lighters, matches, etc.....)

No type of weapons (Guns, rounds, knifes, razor blades etc.....)

No information that will promote a business, religion, program, political party etc.....

 

Everything needs to be family friendly. How hard can that be. Like I said earlier I don't care if you put symbols in there. I think it is sorta interesting to see different stuff. I have even seen a serenity coin in one. Now that is cool. I know what that stands for. But it was a sig item for someone. Just be real careful what you put in a cache. The only paper that should be in there is the log and calling cards from cachers (you know what I mean by that).

 

I think I might be done. So Happy caching. :cool:

 

From what at least 2 people have posted here, and according to the websites guidelines, nothing is wrong with religious items. They are not forbidden.

 

What shouldn't be in a cache?

 

Use your common sense in most cases. Explosives, ammo, knives, drugs, and alcohol shouldn't be placed in a cache. Respect the local laws. All ages of people hide and seek caches, so use some thought before placing an item into a cache.

 

Food items are ALWAYS a BAD IDEA. Animals have better noses than humans, and in some cases caches have been chewed through and destroyed because of food items in a cache. Please do not put food in a cache.

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Okay let me jump in here again and get everything straightened out here. There are RULES and GUIDELINES in what is placed in caches.

 

If there is a moderator out there please correct me if I am wrong.

 

No food in caches.

No flammable or combustible material. (Lighters, matches, etc.....)

No type of weapons (Guns, rounds, knifes, razor blades etc.....)

No information that will promote a business, religion, program, political party etc.....

 

Everything needs to be family friendly. How hard can that be. Like I said earlier I don't care if you put symbols in there. I think it is sorta interesting to see different stuff. I have even seen a serenity coin in one. Now that is cool. I know what that stands for. But it was a sig item for someone. Just be real careful what you put in a cache. The only paper that should be in there is the log and calling cards from cachers (you know what I mean by that).

 

I think I might be done. So Happy caching. :cool:

 

From what at least 2 people have posted here, and according to the websites guidelines, nothing is wrong with religious items. They are not forbidden.

 

What shouldn't be in a cache?

 

Use your common sense in most cases. Explosives, ammo, knives, drugs, and alcohol shouldn't be placed in a cache. Respect the local laws. All ages of people hide and seek caches, so use some thought before placing an item into a cache.

 

Food items are ALWAYS a BAD IDEA. Animals have better noses than humans, and in some cases caches have been chewed through and destroyed because of food items in a cache. Please do not put food in a cache.

 

No they are not forbidden. What is forbidden is the pamphlets that say are you saved if not some to our church. Need money ASAP? Come to Billy Bob's loan service. Getting a divorce? Come to Cut Throat Attorney at law. I hope you get the idea of what I am saying. I don't care what your faith is. Just remember to leave things in caches people can exchange. You can't exchange a pamphlets or business cards. If I see that stuff I will take it out and put some swag in and carry it out as trash out. I have seen caches with that is all it is advertisements. :cool: So don't be a butthead and leave worthless paper behind.

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Please don't confuse the "Cache Contents" listing guideline with the separate guidelines about "Commercial Caches" and "Caches that Solicit."

 

A cache can have ten trade items, one of which has a business logo. The one item won't make it a commercial cache. A cache can have nine secular trade items and one religious trade item, and the one item won't transform the cache into a cache with a religious agenda. If it were 10 commercial items or 10 religious items, the answer would be different. Reviewers look at the cache description as well as the mix of trade items when applying these guidelines.

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i am more bugged now by tracts and pamphlets than i ever was. when i used to see these things i could toss them off as being just another stupid thing from the stupid christians. now i'm vaguely embarrased as you might be by the backward behavior of a cousin at a family outing.
Holy smokes! I've been trying to think of a way to say how I feel about tracts for a long time. You just hit the nail on the head for me. Thanks! :cool:
A cache can have ten trade items, one of which has a business logo. The one item won't make it a commercial cache. A cache can have nine secular trade items and one religious trade item, and the one item won't transform the cache into a cache with a religious agenda. If it were 10 commercial items or 10 religious items, the answer would be different. Reviewers look at the cache description as well as the mix of trade items when applying these guidelines.
I'm assuming you're talking about starting contents. If I placed a cache with 10 pieces of swag, then had 9 "backward-behaving cousins" come along and trade out swag items for their favorite tracts, would I be obligated to go fix that ratio if I was paying attention to what they said they traded in the logs? I probably would just because I wouldn't feel right about the lack of fun (for lack of a better word) swag in the cache, but not because of the ratio. I guess my real question is this:

 

Would a cache be considered to have an agenda if a cacher (other than the owner) "hijacked" the cache by filling it full of stuff that promoted an agenda?

 

If the answer is yes, that in itself would be reason to remove excessive amounts of tracts from a cache. One or two? Why bother unless they're wet and/or falling apart? That "backward-behaving cousin" is still family, after all. (The geocaching family, that is.)

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It offends you? Seriously, I don't see any point in putting these pamphlets in caches either, but really, I don't know if I'd go that far. :cool:Offended, eh?

 

Maybe I should get offended sometime. It seems to be all the rage these days.

 

Yes, it does offend me. It offends me that someone has the audacity to attempt to push their beliefs onto the general public. These are the same people who would raise a major fit if someone were to put information regarding Wicca or Atheism.

 

There are some things that should not be forced onto others (especially people who one does not know) - religion and politics being at the forefront of that list.

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]

Oh really? How about a pack of condoms....a dildo....depictions of child abuse.....cards containing "dirty jokes"....legal or illegal drugs? I believe that it is a stated goal of this game to be and remain family friendly....

 

I agree, these items however are not what is being discussed in this topic. Most of these items are illegal and or dangerous in their own right (by the way, kids will see items like condoms all the time when mom and dad takes them to the store). A crucifix, Star of David, Buddah, or a Cow (a highly regarded religious symbol in some faiths) are not going to hurt anyone, even children. If your not Christian and your child see a cross (which I'm sure they have seen hundreds of times before) and they ask what it is, all a parent need say is that "It is a symbol that represents someone else's ideas about life." No harm is done.

 

The items you list above are VERY different, harm will be done. The religious symbols being discussed in the forum hurt no one, they may make some people feel uncomfortable, but no harm is done. I find it interesting how so many people come out and scream about a cross or a Star of David, but then go home and let their kids watch rated R movies full of rape, murder, violence, etc. and hardly even say a thing. I believe this is much more damaging to a child than any cross you will find in a cache.

 

So if we carry some peoples comments out to their ultimate conclusion, we need to come up with a band list that includes EVERY religious symbol in the entire world to be completely fair and not accidentally offend someone. By the way this would include all kinds of things, like Cows, Roosters, Crows, in addition to what we always think about as religious symbols. I'm sure someone out their would be upset to find a sacrilegious depiction of a cow on a GeoCoin that may for instance be honoring farmers.

 

Use common sense people, if it is dangerous or illegal, then no-duh, it doesn't belong in a cache. People preach tolerance, tolerance is the ACCEPTANCE of other's beliefs and ideas and that they can express them (even if you don't agree), telling them that the have to hide it in the closest because it might offend someone is by definition in-tolerance. A lot of people died giving us our right of free speech, freedom of expression and freedom of religion, and the right to not agree and state that you don't agree. Any Christian worth his salt will tell you that Christianity can not be forced on someone, those that try to are in the wrong, accepting Jesus has to be a willing non coursed decision made individually.

Edited by Team Spaced Out
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It offends you? Seriously, I don't see any point in putting these pamphlets in caches either, but really, I don't know if I'd go that far. :)Offended, eh?

 

Maybe I should get offended sometime. It seems to be all the rage these days.

Yes, it does offend me. It offends me that someone has the audacity to attempt to push their beliefs onto the general public. These are the same people who would raise a major fit if someone were to put information regarding Wicca or Atheism.

 

There are some things that should not be forced onto others (especially people who one does not know) - religion and politics being at the forefront of that list.

Heh... People push their beliefs on the general public all the time, and the general public pushes back.
  • Why do the nudists have to stay in colonies?
  • Why do I have to listen to some kid's stereo as he drives past me?
  • Why should I have to look at the logo on your t-shirt?
  • Why can't I leave a pamphlet promoting something I believe in where I think others might read it, too?
  • Why is it bad to kill people?
  • Why can't those kids stay off my lawn?

Some of the beliefs "pushed" on me I agree with, others I don't. If I got offended at every little thing I don't like or agree with, I wouldn't have enough time left for the rest of the stuff that makes life fun. Oh, I already said that part... read below...

Edited by Too Tall John
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i am more bugged now by tracts and pamphlets than i ever was. when i used to see these things i could toss them off as being just another stupid thing from the stupid christians. now i'm vaguely embarrased as you might be by the backward behavior of a cousin at a family outing.
Holy smokes! I've been trying to think of a way to say how I feel about tracts for a long time. You just hit the nail on the head for me. Thanks! :)

 

 

anytime. happy to help.

 

These are the same people who would raise a major fit if someone were to put information regarding Wicca or Atheism.

 

 

go ahead. both of these are cheerfully practiced in the family of my birth. you should see easter dinner at my mom's. or my bookshelf.

 

remember that freedon of religion includes freedom from religion.

 

if you'd like a detailed inventory of my personal relationship with Jesus, i will be happy to drop a copy of the account into a cache near you.

 

merry meet and merry part, and merry meet again.

 

bright blessings.

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These are the same people who would raise a major fit if someone were to put information regarding Wicca or Atheism.

Reading this snip that flask just responded to made me wonder:

 

How do you know this? Did you find someone who placed a tract in a cache and ask their opinions about Wiccan tracts? Atheist tracts? Potato tracts?

 

Until you can show me that "These are the same people who would raise a major fit" if they encountered such things, your theory holds no water. Even after you show me that your statement has foundation, your argument that "I can be upset because they can be upset" still doesn't float.

 

Hmm... doesn't hold water? Doesn't float? Two sayings that are sort of opposite, but mean the same thing...

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These are the same people who would raise a major fit if someone were to put information regarding Wicca or Atheism.

Reading this snip that flask just responded to made me wonder:

 

How do you know this? Did you find someone who placed a tract in a cache and ask their opinions about Wiccan tracts? Atheist tracts? Potato tracts?

 

Until you can show me that "These are the same people who would raise a major fit" if they encountered such things, your theory holds no water. Even after you show me that your statement has foundation, your argument that "I can be upset because they can be upset" still doesn't float.

 

Hmm... doesn't hold water? Doesn't float? Two sayings that are sort of opposite, but mean the same thing...

 

in fairness, i have seen posts by people who are offended by these things but cannot imagine why a christian tract would be offensive.

 

it goes back to your backward cousin.

 

atheists and wiccans for the most part do not seek converts, so tracts would be rare.

 

my parents are atheists. my sister is a wiccan priestess. one of my favorite childhood memories is of listening to my musilm uncle (by my grandfather's second marriage) talk of his childhood ramadan memories in turkey. my mom's home cooking includes tongue in raisin sauce with noodle kugel. or it did before she went vegetarian.

 

when we say "all are welcome at the table", we mean "all are welcome at the table", not "all who agree with us are welcome at the table."

 

so leave your what-have-yous in a geocache. don't leave crappy paper.

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These are the same people who would raise a major fit if someone were to put information regarding Wicca or Atheism.

Reading this snip that flask just responded to made me wonder:

 

How do you know this? Did you find someone who placed a tract in a cache and ask their opinions about Wiccan tracts? Atheist tracts? Potato tracts?

 

Until you can show me that "These are the same people who would raise a major fit" if they encountered such things, your theory holds no water. Even after you show me that your statement has foundation, your argument that "I can be upset because they can be upset" still doesn't float.

 

Hmm... doesn't hold water? Doesn't float? Two sayings that are sort of opposite, but mean the same thing...

 

I agree with Too Tall John. I don't agree with Wiccans and Atheists, but I don't run around trying to censor them and say they have to keep it in the closet. In fact I try to learn more about them, so I can understand where they come from, what their ideals and beliefs are. I have found learning about other religions only reinforces my own beliefs. Don't shove your head in the sand, learn about others you don't agree with, you'll find that you will be a better person in the end. My children and I often have long in-depth discussions about the world's religions, how they relate to ours, their history, and how they have helped shape our world.

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when we say "all are welcome at the table", we mean "all are welcome at the table", not "all who agree with us are welcome at the table."

 

so leave your what-have-yous in a geocache. don't leave crappy paper.

If everyone at the table agrees, it makes for very boring conversation, in my experience. :)

 

As far as leaving tracts in the cache goes, I agree, don't bother. At the same time, why let it bother you if you find 'em?

 

Oh...

my mom's home cooking includes tongue in raisin sauce with noodle kugel. or it did before she went vegetarian.
A direct correlation? :unsure: Edited by Too Tall John
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As far as leaving tracts in the cache goes, I agree, don't bother. At the same time, why let it bother you if you find 'em?

 

Oh...

my mom's home cooking includes tongue in raisin sauce with noodle kugel. or it did before she went vegetarian.
A direct correlation? :)

 

no, no, no! it's good! she got the recipe from someone at a bar mitzvah.

 

these days she won't eat anything that had a mother. "including," i needle her, "species that eat their own young?"

 

then i run. mom's getting older, so i can get away fast enough.

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Yes, it does offend me. It offends me that someone has the audacity to attempt to push their beliefs onto the general public. These are the same people who would raise a major fit if someone were to put information regarding Wicca or Atheism.

 

There are some things that should not be forced onto others (especially people who one does not know) - religion and politics being at the forefront of that list.

  • If something seems appropriate and you want to put it in a cache, then do it.
  • If something seems inappropriate and you want to remove it from a cache, then do it.
  • No need to get offended.
  • No need to start a heated forum debate
  • Just deal with it

These are the same people who would raise a major fit if someone were to put information regarding Wicca or Atheism.

No, but I will sometimes raise a stink if I feel that someone is too easily offended. I grew up around a few people like that, who seemed determined to always have things their own way. It has been my solid resolution as an adult to let people be offended and do nothing to amend it. Workable solutions never arise from being offended. Just deal with it.

 

The moment you see that thing lying in a cache you know what it is. You've seen it before. No one's making you read it. The problem isn't that anyone is making you do anything. You even have the option to throw it out without ever reading it, preventing anyone else from reading it either. The problem comes when you try to control other people's actions.

There are some things that should not be forced onto others

They are not forcing their beliefs onto you anymore than you are forcing your belief onto me, right here, in this very thread.

Edited by nonaeroterraqueous
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There is no law guaranteeing your right not to be offended. It happens everyday. In regard to Geocaching, if the "offending" items are not against the rules then they can be placed and you'll have to deal with it. Seems to me that some folks are just too sensitive about being exposed to beliefs contrary to their own.

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It offends you? Seriously, I don't see any point in putting these pamphlets in caches either, but really, I don't know if I'd go that far. :)Offended, eh?

 

Maybe I should get offended sometime. It seems to be all the rage these days.

 

Yes, it does offend me. It offends me that someone has the audacity to attempt to push their beliefs onto the general public. These are the same people who would raise a major fit if someone were to put information regarding Wicca or Atheism.

 

There are some things that should not be forced onto others (especially people who one does not know) - religion and politics being at the forefront of that list.

<sigh>

 

I answered this much better in another thread on this topic recently, so I won't try here. But I just had to say something. Like others have pointed out, this is a rather generic, unsupported statement.

 

I'm a very strong Christian, and I don't take offense at other people's beliefs or their expression of them. The nice thing about living in the U. S. is that they enjoy the same liberties that I do, and I'm happy for that. I may not agree with them, but I respect their rights to share their beliefs, just as I hope they respect mine. If we don't have that attitude, then we are defeating the basis that our country was founded upon.

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I think it is a wonderful blessing that we live in a country where we can have freedom of religion and speech and have these debates. Religious persecution is still rampant in many parts of the world. People are dying for their beliefs every day, while we worry in America about "being offended" and achieving "Freedom FROM Religion", and getting all in a huff about someone putting a bible tract or the like in a tupperware container in the woods. I think this is the same part of the brain that panics when it can't find the remote control, or complains when their McFries or a little too cold.

 

Being easily offended is a sign of weakness. Take that however you would like. I don't care--I don't get offended!

 

That being said, I would also like to give my brief opinion on Bible tracts and the like. If anyone should be offended by bible tracts and religious advertising left in geocaches, it is Christians. No one has ever been converted or accepted Christ by getting a tract shoved in their face, or left in a geocache. It's the junkmail of Christianity. If you want to represent Christ, show love the way Christ did. If you come upon a cache in disrepair, fix it up. If you open the cache and it is filled with junk, replace it with some nice stuff. Treat nature with respect. Treat private and public property with respect. Practice Cache In-Trash Out. Live life in the service of others, helping those who deserve it and those that do not, and if someone is seeking and they ask you "why you do what you do", then share with them the message. A lot more "effective" than unsolicited junkmail. But if someone feels this is how they would like to share the message and spread the word, it won't offend me, just disappointed that there is one less matchbox car, dollar store action figure or McToy treasure for my kids to choose from.

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I'm not a Christian, so I don't know how one should react, but I was raised by loving caring parents, and I think they did a pretty good job. The rough edges they didn't get to have been polished by my wonderful wife. (or at least she has tried her best) :unsure:

 

That last paragraph represents one of the finest posts I have ever read in these forums.

<clapping hands smilie>

 

Oh, and I don't think anyone has ever been offended by my sweet potato tracts. In fact I have received many requests for them. :)

Edited by wimseyguy
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That being said, I would also like to give my brief opinion on Bible tracts and the like. If anyone should be offended by bible tracts and religious advertising left in geocaches, it is Christians. No one has ever been converted or accepted Christ by getting a tract shoved in their face, or left in a geocache. It's the junkmail of Christianity. If you want to represent Christ, show love the way Christ did. If you come upon a cache in disrepair, fix it up. If you open the cache and it is filled with junk, replace it with some nice stuff. Treat nature with respect. Treat private and public property with respect. Practice Cache In-Trash Out. Live life in the service of others, helping those who deserve it and those that do not, and if someone is seeking and they ask you "why you do what you do", then share with them the message. A lot more "effective" than unsolicited junkmail. But if someone feels this is how they would like to share the message and spread the word, it won't offend me, just disappointed that there is one less matchbox car, dollar store action figure or McToy treasure for my kids to choose from.

 

amen!

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I guess it isn't as much an issue in the northeast as it would be in KY. I see it, but rarely. Doesn't bother me. I actually find the Chick Tracts to be hilarious.

 

WOW! I had never heard of Chick Tracts before so I Googled them. I just read the Dark Dungeons one about D&D. It's hard to believe these people exist and even harder to belive that other folks buy into such amazingly bogus material. If I found this in one of my caches I'd simply CITO it. If I found it in somebody else's cache I'd trade for it and then CITO it.

 

I can certainly understand why you find them hilarious but I also find them disturbing.........

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It doesn't bother me as much as the live ammunition, which could get someone really hurt.

I trade either one out, and then they are gone.

 

Wow, free ammo, tell me where these caches are :unsure:

 

Don't think loose live ammo will pose much of a threat without some form of "ignition device" (that is unless you swallow it or poke yourself in the eye). It is of course still prohibited from placement in caches even though I for one would be more than happy to find some!

 

(.40 S&W Please!) :)

 

And again, I'd like to dish out some praise to everyone contributing to the discussion, while we've weaved off the original topic the discussion has been lively and interesting without the sniping or personal attacks that usually accompany such a contentious topic!.

 

DCC

Edited by Driver Carries Cache
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I guess it isn't as much an issue in the northeast as it would be in KY. I see it, but rarely. Doesn't bother me. I actually find the Chick Tracts to be hilarious.

 

WOW! I had never heard of Chick Tracts before so I Googled them. I just read the Dark Dungeons one about D&D. It's hard to believe these people exist and even harder to belive that other folks buy into such amazingly bogus material. If I found this in one of my caches I'd simply CITO it. If I found it in somebody else's cache I'd trade for it and then CITO it.

 

I can certainly understand why you find them hilarious but I also find them disturbing.........

Now I'm going to have to google them.

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I guess it isn't as much an issue in the northeast as it would be in KY. I see it, but rarely. Doesn't bother me. I actually find the Chick Tracts to be hilarious.

 

WOW! I had never heard of Chick Tracts before so I Googled them. I just read the Dark Dungeons one about D&D. It's hard to believe these people exist and even harder to belive that other folks buy into such amazingly bogus material. If I found this in one of my caches I'd simply CITO it. If I found it in somebody else's cache I'd trade for it and then CITO it.

 

I can certainly understand why you find them hilarious but I also find them disturbing.........

Now I'm going to have to google them.

 

me, too.

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