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Geocoin Thievery


shubs
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I've noticed that a lot of caches that I search for with geocoins logged, the coins are missing an alarmingly high percentage of the time. I've purchased a few of the coins and am afraid to place them fearing they will disappear into some childs toy box.

Has anyone thought of a way to police this problem? Has anyone done something that keeps them moving. Maybe a dye pill or a shock battery that would go off if the cacher keeps the coin too long?

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Yep, geocoin fever causes some people to throw honesty out the window. Someone who would never dream of stealing a cache, contents or TB suddenly goes klepto when he sees a shiny new geocoin.

 

To get around it, I've heard of people who drill holes in the coins to make them less attractive to collectors. Others keep the coin and release a laminated photo of it. Still others never release coins into the wild, but instead walk around with it and let others log it when they meet.

 

Personally I stick a laminated card with each coin asking in part that it "be kept in circulation for others to enjoy". I'm not sure if it helps, but 8 of the 24 geocoins I've released into the wild have been stolen. That ratio

isn't a whole lot higher than my missing TBs.

 

The difference I think is that most of my TBs have gone missing when the caches they were in went missing while others were taken by people who left the sport after a few finds. I have no doubt most of my missing

geocoins were intentionally stolen.

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People suck. It's that simple. "Generic" coins such as USA coins tend to fare better than personal or specialized coins. There's no way to guarantee your coin will not be stolen. I've got one out that I used metal punches to stamp THRAK on. I don't like the way it came out though and won't be doing that again. I've been disappointed many times when there is supposed to be a coin in a cache and I find that it isn't there. I love finding different types of coins but I always move them along to another cache. I have one I picked up not too long ago that I'll be placing very soon. I would have placed it sooner but I had to send my unit in for repair so I haven't been caching.

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That's one thing I just never understood. They don't have any market value, and there are plenty of other shiny things to collect if that's what you like to do. I guess I just don't have that mindset. I do like finding new ones and `collecting' icons, i've seen some pretty nifty geocoins out there.

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I haven't found too many coins, but I just found one the other day and it was in a plastic holder that had two compartments...one for the coin and one for a note or whatever. The hider had a brief note about themselves and the coin and asked to keep it moving. I'm new enough that I'm not sure if this is enough of an insurance that it will actually keep a coin moving, but it's better than nothing I suppose.

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I love Geocoins and have released several into the world and they do disappear at an alarming rate. I now buy one more than I need and keep it for myself. While you can rationalize the losses by saying "what did you expect, setting it free into the World?" but this stealing of personal property is getting really old. They are my TBs and Geocoins, I paid for them and I would like to track 'em. Buy your own if you want to keep them. Oh well, I still buy and release them, maybe one day I'll stop if it gets too bad.

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I have quite a few coins in caches, and they move reletivley well. A few are gonners as well. I engrave the edges. But my newest thing is to use the 2 sided flip pages enclose a description sheet. I have also started trying to keep a few local, I have one that stays here in Ukiah that I releasd last night and 3 that are to travel the Clear lake caches.

 

I have also drop them at the harder terrain caches, with a note to keep them in higher terrain caches, so the ones who work for the cache seem to me to be a liitle more experienced and a little more honest as well. I dont mind if they sit still for awhile as long as they are safe!

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Im batting 50% at the moment. I keep hoping that someone picked it up not knowing what it was, or forgot to log it...... or even just lost it and will email me telling me that.

 

but alas, they are gone, and for the time being so is my desire to release new coins. Im more likely to put out unactivated coins as FTF prizes so that at least someone can enjoy it! :(

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That's one thing I just never understood. They don't have any market value....

 

Oh yes they do. Check out Ebay.

 

Really? Even ones that are aleady activated? It's not like you can unactivate them and make them your own geocoin, right? People just hoard them to keep on a shelf? I guess I just don't understand the compulsion.

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That's one thing I just never understood. They don't have any market value....

 

Oh yes they do. Check out Ebay.

 

Really? Even ones that are aleady activated? It's not like you can unactivate them and make them your own geocoin, right? People just hoard them to keep on a shelf? I guess I just don't understand the compulsion.

 

You can sell them I guess..... and people can adopt them, but only the original owner can adopt a coin to someone else, so taking that into account, they dont have any market value except to the actual owner.

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This issue has impacted me twice recently.

 

On one occasion I picked a cahe to go find that had a geocoin with a mission I thought I could help with. A family with a little child had released it. When I got there - excited to help - NO geocoin. I wrote the owner of the coin - and left a "shame on you" message with my cache log.

 

Recently - I checked on the status of a geocoin I released - one given to my son by a fellow geocacher we never met. It was a birthday gift (of sorts). Recent logs where it should be reports no geocoin in cache. Left another "shame on you" msg.

 

I was a newbie once - and would never have just taken a trackable - even by accident.

 

I think 9 of 10 geocaching folks are GREAT - but boy how the one can bring things down a notch. I'll never understand it.

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That's one thing I just never understood. They don't have any market value....

 

Oh yes they do. Check out Ebay.

 

Really? Even ones that are aleady activated? It's not like you can unactivate them and make them your own geocoin, right? People just hoard them to keep on a shelf? I guess I just don't understand the compulsion.

 

There are people who will buy them activated or not

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That's one thing I just never understood. They don't have any market value, and there are plenty of other shiny things to collect if that's what you like to do. I guess I just don't have that mindset. I do like finding new ones and `collecting' icons, i've seen some pretty nifty geocoins out there.

EXACTLY!!! :( I mean, they are owned by the one who activates it-I don't see how they could show it off to others.

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Really? Even ones that are aleady activated? It's not like you can unactivate them and make them your own geocoin, right? People just hoard them to keep on a shelf? I guess I just don't understand the compulsion.

yup - unfortunately moun10bike coins are notorious for that - no amount of trying will stop people who should know better doing it. There was one sold recently no evidence of the 'public' tracking number TB----- given so the ownership or permission for sale could be easily checked. No reply to the forum thread on the topic before it was locked and the ebayer is well known here :(

 

The wee trackable pathtags and geotags might be a better option. There are currently some more options for even cheaper, quicker to make, more easily replaceable coins being investigated :surprise: - including but not limited to trackable wooden nickels.

 

PS frex3wv I have 2 replacement coins for the kids ( we've done this quite a few time before now and it pays to get back on thebike after the first fall :D

Edited by forthferalz
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That's one thing I just never understood. They don't have any market value....

 

Oh yes they do. Check out Ebay.

 

Really? Even ones that are aleady activated? It's not like you can unactivate them and make them your own geocoin, right? People just hoard them to keep on a shelf? I guess I just don't understand the compulsion.

 

There are people who will buy them activated or not

:surprise:

 

I didn't think that E-Bay would list stolen property for sale. I'm sure that if they were told about it, they would remove the listings and the coins would definitely not have any value (or lose value)

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HeyI just had a thought!!! (dangerous) Does anybody know someone that works for LoJack? Maybe we could develop a new coin that could be tracked electronically. Than when the coin disappears, we could activate the tracking device, already built into the coin, and find and recover the coin.

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Well, I just checked Ebay and I could not find any activated coins for sale other than the ones that someone is selling out of their collection. Its possible that I missed some as there are over 900 listings. I DID see a few that were listed as 'not trackable' and looked like they were (but I can't really tell)

 

If anyone sees any trackable coin listed as 'not trackable' please report it to Ebay as possibly stolen and hopefully they will take the listing down. Or, copy and paste the URL and send it to me and I'll investigate.

Thanks.

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We wont send out any of our coins for that very reason as we generally buy the rare or at least less common coins after hearing that a local cacher had several coins go missing in a short space of time. If you want to send out a coin just to track mileage then try the geoswag.com generic coins. They have a hole pre drilled & come with a small ball chain to attach notes or hitch hiker's. Click here.Geoswag.com

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I made a mistake and released my absoulte caching geocoin and now it is gone. I was hoping that people could be honest and keep it going but it looks as though someone has taken it for their own collection. If I ever get another one I will not let it go. This was probably one of my favorite coins and I wanted to share it with everyone else. Well someone destroyed that for me. So now all I can do is pray that I can get my hands on another one.

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That's one thing I just never understood. They don't have any market value....

 

Oh yes they do. Check out Ebay.

 

Really? Even ones that are aleady activated? It's not like you can unactivate them and make them your own geocoin, right? People just hoard them to keep on a shelf? I guess I just don't understand the compulsion.

 

There are people who will buy them activated or not

:D

 

I didn't think that E-Bay would list stolen property for sale. I'm sure that if they were told about it, they would remove the listings and the coins would definitely not have any value (or lose value)

 

I may be wrong, but I believe legally speaking a geocoin that is released would be considered abandoned property. That doesn't make it right to take them out of the game, but I don't believe ebay is breaking any laws by hosting the auctions.

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There are two points I would like to make.

 

The first is that new geocachers are not being informed about geocoins. I got my parents into this back in January when I first heard of geocaching. I knew nothing of travel bugs & geocoins, so I was not able to explain them to my parents. They found a coin (trackable on some other website) and thought it was a neat treasure and kept it. Now that I have given a geocoin to them and explained what they are about, they released the coin they found back into circulation. They had the coin for about 4 or 5 months before it was put back into circulation. They had no idea. This may be a common occurrence also. Maybe it would help if geocaching.com would put an image of a geocoin on their home page with a statement like "For Moving from Cache to Cache and Not for Keeping", new cachers would learn about them sooner.

 

The second point is more of an idea. If every geocacher/geocaching team left one unactivated coin for someone to find and keep as their own, there may be less stealing. Especially if a note was included saying something like "This coin is unactivated and is now yours. Please do not keep any activated coins". This way people would find really cool treasures and also be somewhat educated about the nature of geocoins.

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I am new to geocaching and have recently purchased several geocoins. I like to collect coins in general and these are a great conversation piece. I have only found one geocoin in a cache, usually they are listed in the inventory and not in the cache anymore. It was that geocoin, a Crowesfeat30, that got me started collecting. Since then I have seen some "replicas" in caches and I think that's the way to go. I don't have tons of extra spending money laying around so when I decide to buy a coin it's because I really love the design. I took close up pics of my coins, printed them out and glued it to a wooden nickel I got at Hobby Lobby. I will lacquer them and include a goal card and release them that way. If people are disappointed by not finding the real thing that's ok, at least they will find something.

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When I first started caching, I bought a couple of unactivated coins and made laminated paper cards for them and released those. Then, I decided it was more fun to actually release the coin, so I released a couple of those. Both of them made it to Europe and are now missing.

 

NOW I drill holes in my coins, add a "Geocoin Assistant Tag" (from geocoins.net) on a short chain and I superglue the connecting piece (I do this with my TB's too). I realize someone *could* cut the chain, but I'm more concerned with making it more obvious to a noob that the coins are supposed to be traveling and are not collectible trinkets.

 

So far, it's working.

 

Bisch.

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My 3 Daughters (11, 9 and 5) and myself are new to Geocaching (1 month). So far we've found about a dozen TB's and 5 Geocoins. Although we're new to this, it should be common sense to move them to a new cache when you get a chance.

 

I doubt that missing Geocoins are strictly from new cachers but people who just aren't honest, no matter how long they've been doing this.

 

We keep the ones we find for a maximum of 2 weeks looking for the next prefect drop for them. We've found 3 really nice looking coins that we would love to keep, but that would ruin it for the owner of the coin and anyone else who enjoys Geocaching.

 

Just wanted to put my two cents in that it's not just newbies :anitongue:

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I received an email yesterday that said a cache ( The Cachebug.com Geocoin Vault ) that my geocoin ( TB1B14T ) was in had been reported to the 'bomb squad' and disposed of. Weird thing is the 'bomb squad' took the time to log into geocaching.com, retrieve my geocoin from the cache, and post that lovely note. They did the same for other tb's in the cache. Seems mighty suspicious to me....

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I found my first geocoin recently while on vacation in Las Vegas. Not knowing what it was, I planned to keep it, thinking it was an amazing treasure. Then I noticed it had an alphanumeric code on it like the travel bugs I had seen. I was able to quickly confirm this on geocaching.com, and did not keep the coin. Since I almost took someone elses coin and since my parents did take someone elses coin with out knowing, I just assumed that much of the problem could be with new cachers. The cachers I have met have been really nice people, and I was hoping that the missing coins were more of a product of accident than dishonesty.

 

 

Just wanted to put my two cents in that it's not just newbies :anitongue:

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I received an email yesterday that said a cache ( The Cachebug.com Geocoin Vault ) that my geocoin ( TB1B14T ) was in had been reported to the 'bomb squad' and disposed of. Weird thing is the 'bomb squad' took the time to log into geocaching.com, retrieve my geocoin from the cache, and post that lovely note. They did the same for other tb's in the cache. Seems mighty suspicious to me....

 

Did you email them asking if they could return your coin? Afterall, you didnt place it there, it was just in the wrong place/wrong time.

 

On another note, I think I have found out that one of my missing coins was due to a newbie. I went back and started researching the cache it was last in, and found someone with 2 finds (and no activity since that day) stating they 'will take the coin and move it to another county', but they never logged it. Ive emailed them to ask for its return, but who knows what will happen there.

 

clay

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Yes they do go mising alot, a few of us in our area developed a plan that we hope might at least idendify who has been to with the aid of a trail cam. For the time being I made a wooden cut out in the shape of my coins out of 1/8" wood and then lamenated a color pic of the coin to it, that way cachers still get to somewhat see, and enjoy what the coin looks like, and if it goes missing its not a huge deal other then a mileage calc.

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Well, I'm just wondering if there is a reason why the topic was removed. I think that there was some good discussion happening and it remained on topic. Can you give a reason?

 

None of the post was within the forum guidelines. Posted were specific names, private emails, disrespect, and the post was spammed to 10 different threads. All in violation of the forum guidelines.

I left the post in one thread after removing the cacher's name mentioned, since the private emails were not included in that post.

Does that answer your question?

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And.....

 

You can find the one post that is left and judge for yourself.

I was amazed to think that a geocacher would actually do that. I can understand why people don't like copies but to take a copy out of play and destroy it?

I find the things that some people do beyond the pale.

 

Copies are a great way to defeat the thieves. The thieves hate copies more than anyone else.

When you place a copy it is the same as placing a TB, the people who hate the coin copies might be upset that they don't get to handle a real coin but the thieves are SOL, there is nothing there for them to steal.

 

Most normal geocachers will help a copy along, they don't make judgements on the TB selections made by other geocachers and they are happy to help with any TB.

 

There are sour souls who honestly feel that everyone has a single role to play, pleasing them. They are often found in the forums beaking off about copies and how much they hate them and letting others know that they refuse to move them. They are simply sour people and should be avoided, their sourness doesn't generally extend to destroying the TBs placed by another geocacher.

 

Now a thief is likely going to get really, really upset and seek some way to express that displeasure.

 

When someone takes it upon themselves to destroy another players TB they might as well be an outright thief. The posts by Chapterhouse were pretty hard to miss and the name of the other geocacher is fairly easy to dig out. I am quite glad that he lives on the other side of the continent.

 

He is probably aware of this thread and might even be reading, if he is - "Shame on you".

 

I am sure he is going to get some emails from other geocachers who look at his actions rather than his motivations. The geocacher in question actually admits to taking TB's out of the game and destroying them. :o

 

Maybe Eartha can explain what disciplinary action Groundspeak is going to take on a geocacher who openly admits to taking and destroying another players TBs. He destroys them because he doesn't like copies? I don't mind a copy, it is TB and that is all. I like geocoins a lot but I really don't think that all the others geocachers in the world must cater to my likes and dislikes, if they select a TB and place it in the game, I will move it.

 

Since I don't steal geocoins from caches I cannot honestly object to a trackable made of paper rather than metal. I wasn't going out to steal it anyway and when I find it is a copy I move it along and log it like any other TB.

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Geocoins and TBs are likely to disappear eventually when released into the wild. That is a situation that you must be willing to accept when releasing any traveler. However, acceptance of potential disappearance doesn’t lessen the sting of moving a missing traveler to the “unknown location,” or at least it doesn’t for me.

 

Much ado is made of geocoin thieves. They probably do exist, but I suspect that the greatest threats to TBs are newbie cachers, cachers who pick up a TB then drop out of caching, cachers who misplace TBs that they retrieve, and muggles. Once again, knowing that it probably wasn’t deliberately stolen doesn’t lessen the sting of the loss. But, understanding why most geocoins disappear does lead to some potential solutions. I attach a mission tag or TB buddy to most of the geocoins that I release. I suspect that it helps, though I haven’t investigated the benefit in an objective manner. Periodically, every 3-5 months, I send a note to people that have been holding onto a coins for more than two months and politely request that they move them along when they have a chance. The latter tends to spring as many of half the held geocoins within a couple of weeks.

 

Copies are another solution. Some geocachers have no problem with copy coins and move them along like any other TB. Other cachers don’t care for them and won’t move them (I fall in the latter camp, though I am not a “sour” individual). Still, if you release TBs to see where they go and who picks them up, a copy of a geocoin is a realistic option for getting something moving.

 

Luck is a third option. Most of the coins I have found in caches have not been defaced or tagged. They actually seem to do about as well as any other geocoin when I look back at the logs of coins I have helped along in their travels.

 

The deleted post related frustration with people who removed and destroyed copy coins from caches. Destroying someone else’s TB is just plain wrong! If you don’t mind a copy, help it along. If you don’t like a copy, leave it in place. I don’t consider an attempt to force someone else to play the game to your liking as being in the spirit of the game.

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Other cachers don’t care for them and won’t move them (I fall in the latter camp, though I am not a “sour” individual).

 

I am probably missing something, why would you refuse to move a copy of geocoin?

It is a TB, plain and simple.

 

By refusing to move that TB (I presume you do move other TB's) you are trying to influence someone to play the game in a fashion that is more amenable to you, you are telling them that their choice of TBs is not acceptable to you.

If I was allergic to cats I might refuse to move TB's made of cat hair but that is not an attempt to make other people place non-cathair TB's.

A copy of a geocoin is a TB, it represents an opportunity to help a fellow geocacher.

The person buying the geocoin has contributed to the well being of this listing service and has placed a TB in play.

Why do you refuse to move copies?

Do you also refuse to move TB's that are re-released with Copy tags?

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It's not always newbies that get it wrong, I released a coin in February that was in a race, it covered almost 5,000 miles by April, then it was picked up and nothing happened for months. I sent a couple of emails to the cacher that made the retrieve but got no response. I finally got an email yesterday with apologies, my coin had been 'forgotten' about, my emails had been diverted into a Spam folder. It was just an unfortunate set of circumstances, if someone has a huge inventory of coins it is going to be relatively easy to miss seeing that a coin 'in the hand' has not been moved on. The coin had physically been passed to someone else and was only recently returned into the hands of the cacher who retrieved it in April - even that part I find confusing because there have been no discovery logs. Anyway I am told that the coin will be moved on shortly.

 

The other coins that I have lost have been my own fault, inexperience in placing caches, they were muggled and I don't believe they were taken for the coins, I believe they were too visible.

 

It is dissapointing to 'lose' coins, but if you dropped a fifty dollar note on the floor of the shopping mall, no one is going to rush home and log on to Where's George. If you put coins out in the wild you have to be prepared to lose them. If you decide not to play that game then you lose out on the fun that can be derived from seeing where your coins go.

 

We all make mistakes, some are deliberate, only bad Karma can come to folks who are mean enough to spoil the game for others.

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I am probably missing something, why would you refuse to move a copy of geocoin?

It is a TB, plain and simple.

 

By refusing to move that TB (I presume you do move other TB's) you are trying to influence someone to play the game in a fashion that is more amenable to you, you are telling them that their choice of TBs is not acceptable to you.

If I was allergic to cats I might refuse to move TB's made of cat hair but that is not an attempt to make other people place non-cathair TB's.

A copy of a geocoin is a TB, it represents an opportunity to help a fellow geocacher.

The person buying the geocoin has contributed to the well being of this listing service and has placed a TB in play.

Why do you refuse to move copies?

Do you also refuse to move TB's that are re-released with Copy tags?

 

Why? In short, because it's how I decided to play the game. A while ago, I made the decision to only log those items which I move, and to only move real geocoins. I personally think that (most) copy coins are lame. To me, they represent someone who wants have their cake and to eat it too. When I see a coin icon in a cache, I hope to glimpse, and feel, a real geocoin. Artificial coins are not what I was hoping to find and not what I try to promote by dropping hundresds of real travelling geocoins in geocaches. I also choose not to discover coins or TBs. I only log them if I move them. Again, it is how I decided to play the game. I have no problem with people discovering the coins that I release - that's how they play the game.

 

As an aside, I've found some great copies - including one that I thought was a real coin until I got down to my car from a relatively tough cache. My son "grabbed" it from the cache and we moved it on quickly. But, I chose not to "grab" it. A few weeks ago, I rescued and repaired (after contacting the owner) a copy coin that my son moved to a new cache closer to its goal.

 

I can't help but to chuckle :o at the irony of the comment "By refusing to move that TB (I presume you do move other TB's) you are trying to influence someone to play the game in a fashion that is more amenable to you, you are telling them that their choice of TBs is not acceptable to you." Are you suggesting that I should play the game "your way" and move everyghing instead of the things that I would choose to move?

 

If I come off as argumentative - sorry. Lots of people play the game slightly differently. I'm ok with that. If you want to keep your coins and release copies, I can live with that (even if I don't support it). I promise not to leave a snide log (I've seen alot of them for copy coins) and I won't do anything to damage or interfere with your TB. But, I also won't move it as a matter of personal choice. I'll let someone else come along and make a personal choice to help it move.

 

Oh, if someone released a TB, copy or otherwise, that was a picture of a hot wheel, teddy bear, McToy, or other object, I probably wouldn't move that either. (There are obvious exceptions - I've moved several pictures of kids with specific missions.)

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I was amazed to think that a geocacher would actually do that. I can understand why people don't like copies but to take a copy out of play and destroy it?

 

Copies are a great way to defeat the thieves. The thieves hate copies more than anyone else.

When you place a copy it is the same as placing a TB, the people who hate the coin copies might be upset that they don't get to handle a real coin but the thieves are SOL, there is nothing there for them to steal.

A long time ago, after losing several coins before they had travelled more than one or two caches, I released four "copies" into the wild. I didn't release any further copies because there was a certain amount of negative reaction to it. In two cases, the finders were quite upset and said so in their log. One said he was going to be slow about rereleasing because it wasn't real.

 

In both cases, I wrote them a respectful e-mail explaining that I understood their feelings and that, "if this really bothers you, you have my permission to toss the pseudo-coin into the trash." In other words, I gave them leave to "take a copy out of play and destroy it." Both cachers wrote back saying that while they didn't care for fake coins, they did understand. And both promptly dropped off the pseudo-coins into new caches.

 

For better or worse, all four of those pseudo-coins are still out there and travelling around, two years later. (And despite how successful they've been, I still have no plans to release any more copies as travellers.)

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Maybe Eartha can explain what disciplinary action Groundspeak is going to take on a geocacher who openly admits to taking and destroying another players TBs. He destroys them because he doesn't like copies? I don't mind a copy, it is TB and that is all. I like geocoins a lot but I really don't think that all the others geocachers in the world must cater to my likes and dislikes, if they select a TB and place it in the game, I will move it.

 

Groundspeak does not discuss disciplinary actions in public.

 

These matters are kept between Groundspeak and the one being disciplined. This does not mean actions are not taken when required, we just do not hold public floggings, that went out centuries ago.

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Are you suggesting that I should play the game "your way" and move everyghing instead of the things that I would choose to move?

 

I hope that most people recognize that I did not come up with the idea of helping other geocachers by moving their TB's so doing that is not playing the game "my way" it is actually the way the game is played. The TB is one of the two basic gamepieces in geocaching, it is a way to connect to other geocachers, a way to help them.

You don't come off as argumentative, you come off as sour which is exactly where I started.

Artificial coins are not what I was hoping to find and not what I try to promote by dropping hundresds of real travelling geocoins in geocaches.

So bully for you, you put real geocoins in caches and refuse to move other peoples TB's because they don't meet the standard you wish to promote. That is exactly what I said, you think other people have to please you.

As a matter of course I move every TB I find in a geocache unless I cannot help it along in it's mission. I don't judge the geocacher who placed the TB into the game, I don't judge the TB's I find and I don't try to "promote" some TBs and "demote" others, I try to help them all. This is pretty simple stuff and your answers are very clear. Let me guess, you also think you are really helpful and friendly. (as long as they put real geocoins in caches that is) :o

 

I am glad you recognize that the geocacher pointed out by Chapterhouse is a blot on the game and his actions are completely out to lunch. I am happy to know that you don't destroy the TBs of other geocachers.

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