Azimuth Mark Distance Challenge

[+Ernmark]

..so in my area, most of the AZ marks are in the .5 - .6 mi range from a tri-station (some a lot closer), but the other day, I ran into one that was a whopping 5.09 mi. away (straight-line distance - driving to it directly from the station would be about a 10 mi. trek)!

 

BOWERS - KW2859

 

I was going to post my pic of tha AZ area facing the main station in my log, but in the photo you couldn't even make out the mountain top (which was on the 2nd range back)!

 

So my challenge is this - what's the farthest Azimuth Mark disk that you've run across out there?

Edited August 15, 2007 by Ernmark

[+Black Dog Trackers]

I assume this is not a data-mining challenge, right?

[+Ernmark]

I assume this is not a data-mining challenge, right?

...maybe more of a "memory dump"!?

[square nail]

I found an az mark that was 2.13 miles from the station. Until now, I thought it was possibly the longest distance. Most of them here in the mountains of Montana are from 300 feet to a mile. PID=SU0967

 

square nail

[+t8r]

8.5 KM Windy

 

7.5 KM Jack

 

4.6 KM Horse

Edited August 18, 2007 by t8r

[+t8r]

The only one of those that I have not visited is Windy. Tried a couple times but due to changed track roads and added fences the daylight gave out before the find. This area is 5 to 10 MPH driving. This is pretty much all public land but if you approach from the wrong direction and come to a fence, that might cause several hours of looking for another route.

When I started exploring this area in '74 there were NO fences.

Seems to be a bunch of these stations around the area, where the azimuth is another tri station.

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

Ermark, for this challenge are we to use only stations that have an azimuth mark set with the station name on it, or are we able to use the primary azimuth mark?

The primary azimuth mark may be a totally different name than the station mark, as in the case of LOOKOUT GQ0258whose primary azimuth mark is HOUSEROCK over 8 miles (13.1 KM) away.

 

John

Edited August 20, 2007 by 2oldfarts (the rockhounders)

[+Harry Dolphin]

Around here, I tend not to look for azimuth marks. Either they're written in gibberish that my ouija board cannot decipher (Along a field, near the barn. Hunh? This is a housing develpment!)

I did go looking for LY0803 the azimuth mark for LY2623, but it hasn't been found in ages. Route 206 was widened a few years back.

Or else the azimuth mark is "Smiths Hill" benchmark, or 'The Normanook Fire Tower", or the "Picatinny Tank".

I have found two azimuth marks with their own PID without finding the original benchmark. The only azimuth mark that I've found from the sheet for the station is for LY2640, and that is a few thousand feet at most.

[+Ernmark]

Ermark, for this challenge are we to use only stations that have an azimuth mark set with the station name on it, or are we able to use the primary azimuth mark?

The primary azimuth mark may be a totally different name than the station mark, as in the case of LOOKOUT GQ0258whose primary azimuth mark is HOUSEROCK over 8 miles (13.1 KM) away.

 

John

...I was thinking an AZ that was set w/ it's station's name...

 

PS - no prizes !

Edited August 20, 2007 by Ernmark

[+frex3wv]

I know the goal of our searches ultimately is the station mark, but is finding an azimuth a special feat? and if so why?

Edited August 21, 2007 by frex3wv

[+Klemmer]

They tend to be a bit more of a challenge , as their location is often not well described.

[+shorbird]

Finding a PID-less azimuth can be quite a challenge, as Klemmer noted. I'm always up for it!! Haven't kept track of the distances from the station, but in this area the AZ MKs tend to be anywhere from 300 feet to .25 mile from their stations.

[+2/3 Marine]

I'm with shorbird! At first I didn't even look for the AZ mark. Now it seems like logging a tri-station is incomplete if I haven't found the AZ mark or at least looked hard for it. With tri-stations on some higher mountains here, I'll find AZ's a mile or better away, but no more than 2 miles so far. I've found that hardly any AZ's have their own PID#. A little more work but a lot more fun to locate the azimuth mark.

[NGS Surveyor]

The NGS standard in the 1970s and 1980s and maybe earlier was that an azimuth mark should be between 1/4 mile and 2 miles from the triangulation station. Also, they had to be visible from the ground so that local surveyors could use them without the requirement for a tower. Once the triangulation station is found, the azimuth mark shouldn't be too hard to find unless cultural changes have totally changed the area. Also, for a period of time in the 1970's, azimuth marks were positioned (normally they just had the angle turned to them from the main station). Some of the azimuth marks that were positioned also had underground marks like the main station.

[+Black Dog Trackers]

NGS Surveyor -

 

Welcome to our forum, we're really glad you're here !

[NGS Surveyor]

Re the standard distance for an Azimuth Mark, I just found a 1941 USC&GS pub. that states the same 1/4 mile to 2 mile distance requirement that I stated in an earlier post. So, that requirement was in effect from at least 1941 to the early 1980's when GPS replaced triangulation.

[+Ernmark]

...so - I might actually have found the record in the "AZ Extreme Distance" category?!

 

Woo Hoo !

[+shorbird]

On a recent road trip to Clearfield County, PA, I recovered a tri-station, two RMs, and the AZ. All four marks had their own PIDs, and the website said that the station is 1.5 miles from the AZ. The placement of the station and the AZ were unusual in my experience--the station is on a hill on the north side of town, and the AZ is on a hill on the south side. Unfortunately, both the station and the AZ marks have been seriously vandalized. Only a small sliver of the disk remains at the station, and the AZ MK disk is severely twisted and bent.

The records for this group are very mysterious. There are two separate PIDs for the station. MA0518 and MA2273 appear to be descriptions for the same mark, but the first PID says monumented 1959 and the second says monumented 1938. Both PIDs for the reference marks, MA0519 and MA0520, give a monumentation date of 1959. The description for the AZ MK, MA2286, says monumented date is unknown. The marks in the field are all stamped 1938, with no sign of any marks stamped 1959.

Edited September 9, 2007 by shorbird

[Bill93]

MA2273 is a triangulation station and MA0518 is a vertical control benchmark (horizontal position scaled), but its data sheet says

MA0518_MARKER: DS = TRIANGULATION STATION DISK

 

This is the strongest evidence we have for there being only one disk.

 

Thus it appears the disk was remeasured for elevation in 1959 and the data did not get combined with the data sheet for horizontal position. Thus when the paper records were computerized it got two PID numbers.

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

MA2273 was monumented in 1938 as a Triangulation station disk. These are predominately "Horizontal Control" stations. In 1959 someone felt it necessary to Level to that station and set the "Vertical Control" for that position. Hence 2 different PID#s, 1 is for the Horizontal position and 1 is for the Vertical position. Same disk, 2 different surveys and uses of the disk.

 

The RMs were monumented in 1959 and given their own PID#s at that time. They were actually set in the ground in 1938, but had NOT been surveyed to an exact enough standard to receive their own PID# until they were resurveyed in 1959 and that data sent to the NGS.

 

 

John