Caching in cemetaries?

[+SMOKEATERLT]

I went to find a cache today and it was in a cemetary. I know this is not abnormal, I have been to several cemetaries but this cache was hidden in a flower urn next to a head stone. Is it just me or is this crossing the line? Like I said I have been to several cemetaries in my short time of doing this but all but one cache was hidden on the outside edge of the propety inside a tree or something. The other was in a bush next to a head stone, I wasnt happy about this one either but was not sure if the bush was cemetary property or belongs to the family who placed the head stone. But this one today is obviously hidden on, for lack of a better term "private property". Am I the only one who feels this way? And because i am new to this were would i go to report this if others feel it is wrong. Maybe i am just over reacting, and if you guys say i am then that will be it and i will drop the subject. Tell me what ya think!

Edited August 14, 2007 by DJH Cobb

[TopangaHiker]

I personally think that you're right to feel the way you do,

Getting that close to a grave is a kind of personal space that ought not be violated if you know what I mean. Besides, it's borderline disrespectful.

Now, OTOH if when you downloaded the CG and it said something about how the dearly departed was a GC'er and he or she requested that a GC be hidden on or near the final resting place then that would be another story!

[+9Key]

That's definitely crossing the line. I would contact your local cache reviewer about that one.

[+Team GeoBlast]

I went to find a cache today and it was in a cemetary. I know this is not abnormal, I have been to several cemetaries but this cache was hidden in a flower urn next to a head stone. Is it just me or is this crossing the line? Like I said I have been to several cemetaries in my short time of doing this but all but one cache was hidden on the outside edge of the propety inside a tree or something. The other was in a bush next to a head stone, I wasnt happy about this one either but was not sure if the bush was cemetary property or belongs to the family who placed the head stone. But this one today is obviously hidden on, for lack of a better term "private property". Am I the only one who feels this way? And because i am new to this were would i go to report this if others feel it is wrong. Maybe i am just over reacting, and if you guys say i am then that will be it and i will drop the subject. Tell me what ya think!

 

I hereby grant explicit permission to make my tombstone out of lightcrete and to hide a geocache underneath it. A spring loaded bloody rubber hand for folks to remember me by would be good.

Edited August 14, 2007 by Team GeoBlast

[+stepshep]

Contact -Rusty- http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=54...a8-dd57000bfa0f

That is the reviewer who approved it.

[+Team GeoBlast]

Contact -Rusty- http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=54...a8-dd57000bfa0f

That is the reviewer who approved it.

 

I think the reviewers get enough mail. I would be nice to get a link to the cache you are speaking of though.

[+stepshep]

Contact -Rusty- http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=54...a8-dd57000bfa0f

That is the reviewer who approved it.

 

I think the reviewers get enough mail. I would be nice to get a link to the cache you are speaking of though.

 

You want it? You got it: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...a4-48b7b537104e

[+StarBrand]

I think it crosses the line unless some kind of explict permission were in place. The listing page should state who.

 

Your only real choices are to contact the owner or contact the reviewer directly. Or post an SBA. I would start with the owner.......

[+bottlecap]

I agree with StarBrand.

 

Since the owner doesn't give any info about even knowing the person, and if it is placed as you say, I believe it is over the line. But don't get rammy. Drop the owner an e-mail, explain your conscerns, and provide a link to this topic, then play it by ear.

 

They seem like dedicated cachers, and I don't think any further action will be needed.

 

It might even get us a chance to hear the other side of the story.

Edited August 14, 2007 by bottlecap

[Mag Magician]

My obvious question would be: did the cache placer also place the flower urn, described by the OP? It would take the answer to that question, to determine whether the placement is disrespectful or not. Many old graves contain forgotten vets, or great-great grandparents who just are not remembered by survivors, if there are any.

Of course, this could be described in the cache listing, if the hider has provided his/her own hiding spot. That might lead to less disgust by finders.

JMHO

[Mushtang]

Also, the hint ("cblo" decrypted to "poyb" that is apparently backwards "byop" which means "Bring Your Own Pen") isn't very helpful. If someone can't find the cache and decides to decrypt the hint for assistance, letting them work for a while to figure out that they need to remember to grab a pen on their way to the cache doesn't help at all.

 

I know there's another thread about useless hints, but this got me thinking...

 

It's in a flower vase on a headstone, and the hint is less than useless. Perhaps the cache was actually somewhere else really hard to find (the cache page asks folks to hide it as good or better), and someone got so upset after seeing the hint that after they finally found it they moved it to a place that would make the owner look bad?

Edited August 14, 2007 by Mushtang

[+Team GeoBlast]

Contact -Rusty- http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=54...a8-dd57000bfa0f

That is the reviewer who approved it.

 

I think the reviewers get enough mail.

[+stepshep]

Contact -Rusty- http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=54...a8-dd57000bfa0f

That is the reviewer who approved it.

 

I think the reviewers get enough mail.

 

You said that already.

[+Savoy 6]

Just my 2 cents. Being the owner of 2 long term time shares(plots), one occupied by a loved one and the other waiting for me, find another spot. We have not run out of land to the point that cemetaries are the last frontier. It literally is "over the top".

 

Also, haven't we kicked this dead horse before, in another thread?? Let's find another horse and ride off into the sunset.

[+Team GeoBlast]

Edited August 15, 2007 by Team GeoBlast

[+joranda]

Hey there is a new sheriff in town. So if you don't like the cache, which I myself would not put it there, did you long it as a find? If so, are you crossing a line too? you shouldn't log it if you are going to turn a person in. Have they got the new badges out yet?

[+Team GeoBlast]

You said that already.

 

I don't think I covered with the first statement. I mean.. it's A LOT of mail.

[+bottlecap]

Common joranda, do you really want to go there? This was someone asking advice about a cache that he thought disrespectful. He asked advice, he didn't do ANYTHING!

[+flask]

when i die, i want my headstone to have a secret compartment in it with a logbook.

[+FireRef]

I think that cemetary caches, as long as they are done in a respectful manner, are fine. ISQ, for example, is very particular about how people place their hides for that. Many old cemetaries would be completely forgotten if it weren't for people coming back to them in this manner. As long as it is done respectfully, I don't see why it is a problem.

 

This particular hide raises some issues... lets not raise the cemetary cache issue beyond that.

[+briansnat]

Is it just me or is this crossing the line?

 

It is crossing the line. I know most reviewers check with the hider to make sure the cache is not near any graves before they will consider a cemetery cache for publication. If the hider lied to the reviewer, he would be most interested in hearing about that.

[+SMOKEATERLT]

Wow! Didnt mean to step on your toes joranda. Why is it when a person trys to do the right thing some other person has to point fingers in another direction? I did log it as a FIND because I DID find it! If i hadnt found it I wouldnt have a reason for this post, ya think? I also put in my log that I didnt think it was in an apropriate place. I came here like it says above to ask advice as to how to handle it. And like others said and I had considered myself maybe it is thier families plot and they have the right to do what they want with it. Relax a little supper geocaching stud! You said yourself you wouldnt have put it there, so that means you have some morals anyhow.

[+flask]

Wow! Didnt mean to step on your toes joranda. Why is it when a person trys to do the right thing some other person has to point fingers in another direction? I did log it as a FIND because I DID find it! If i hadnt found it I wouldnt have a reason for this post, ya think? I also put in my log that I didnt think it was in an apropriate place. I came here like it says above to ask advice as to how to handle it. And like others said and I had considered myself maybe it is thier families plot and they have the right to do what they want with it. Relax a little supper geocaching stud! You said yourself you wouldnt have put it there, so that means you have some morals anyhow.

 

and yet i'm the one that gets banned.

[+FireRef]

I would have no problem claiming a find on a cache which I found, but had a problem with. I also would have no problem asking about the legitimacy of that cache if I felt it violated the rules, having claimed a find on it. They are not mutually exclusive situations.

 

As for badges, I'll take one... I have 3 right now... could use another couple for other things

[+bottlecap]

There is a "ball" here, can we please keep our eye on it?

[+MREAGLEWO1]

it does refer to headstones been turning into historical sites. "There is many very old Headstones and has been made an Historical Site."

[+joranda]

Wow! Didnt mean to step on your toes joranda. Why is it when a person trys to do the right thing some other person has to point fingers in another direction? I did log it as a FIND because I DID find it! If i hadnt found it I wouldnt have a reason for this post, ya think? I also put in my log that I didnt think it was in an apropriate place. I came here like it says above to ask advice as to how to handle it. And like others said and I had considered myself maybe it is thier families plot and they have the right to do what they want with it. Relax a little supper geocaching stud! You said yourself you wouldnt have put it there, so that means you have some morals anyhow.

You didn't step on my toes. There is just too many geo police out there.this is just a hobby to be enjoyed. If you have a problem with a cache you should take it up with the cache owner, don't take it up here. You'll find too many,"Mighty with the key board here". And as far as logging it, I wouldn't, if I had a problem with the way it was hidding, thinking it was wrong. So did you do the right thing? Did you contact the cache owner first? And not in the log only.

[+joranda]

I read the logs to the cache. To me, it sounds like it was put in a different spot. So many logs said that they like the cache container. How could so many cachers like a illegal hiding spot? Maybe emailing the cache owner should of been the first step before dragging the cache owner and his cache through the forum page. I bet he would like to add his two cents.

[+Rockin Roddy]

The guy that hid this is a VERY nice and caring soul, maybe you should contact him first?

 

I have found a couple of these types of hides, while I agree that the placement is a bit too close to graves, I really doubt anyone meant to be discourteous.

 

Give the owner a note and I'm sure this can all be cleared up rapidly....AND nicely!

[+rdaines]

IMHO, cemeteries tend to become sad, forgotten places that end up as hang outs and targets of vandalism. Sending some respectful geocaching traffic there might not be such a bad thing. Caches must be placed using all the usual permissions, most I've seen were just outside the boarders as they are private property. However, even with permission I don't think grave site/headstone caches should be allowed because it suggests the idea to others who might not observe the rules.

[+Team S&B no BS about it]

You all are talking about a cache that I hid. The cache was moved from the original place and put into the URN. I didn't place it there and if it wasn't for my Health problems right now I would put it back where it belongs. The Cache was put there with respect and someone moved it in DISRESPECT. I also don't like some of the placements in cemetaries, but this was hid so it wouldn't disrupt anything in the area. I'm sorry that you all think that, but if someone hadn't moved it, you would of thought better.

Edited August 15, 2007 by Team S&B no BS about it

[+SMOKEATERLT]

I would like to publically apologize to Team S&B no BS about it! I should have contacted him first to discuss this situation. But being new to geocaching i did not know this. That is reason for the post. In order to try and make ammends I have offered to replace the cache for Team S&B no BS about it as he is unable to at this time. I truelly ment no harm and feel very bad for upsetting and possibly giving him a bad name. As I explained to him in my email I was cahing with my 5yr old son and had been tring to teach him respect in cemeteries. I had to try and explain to him why I was looking where I was and I guess I was upset for having to explain it. Thank you all for your reponses I am glad to know that you people are truelly consious about your actions. I believe i have found a sport for my family that we will enjoy for a long time.

[+nekom]

Well I think cemeteries, while almost always private property, ARE open to the public, just like parks, but hiding a cache near a headstone I would say is very disrespectful. Now a multi or puzzle cache where you need information from a headstone of historic interest is another thing altogether, but a physical component of a cache near a headstone crosses the line, in my opinion. I have no idea whether or not it violates Groundspeak's guidelines (which is the real issue here I guess), but I'd never do such a thing out of principle.

[+Team Cotati]

Also, the hint ("cblo" decrypted to "poyb" that is apparently backwards "byop" which means "Bring Your Own Pen") isn't very helpful. If someone can't find the cache and decides to decrypt the hint for assistance, letting them work for a while to figure out that they need to remember to grab a pen on their way to the cache doesn't help at all.

 

I know there's another thread about useless hints, but this got me thinking...

 

It's in a flower vase on a headstone, and the hint is less than useless. Perhaps the cache was actually somewhere else really hard to find (the cache page asks folks to hide it as good or better), and someone got so upset after seeing the hint that after they finally found it they moved it to a place that would make the owner look bad?

 

I think that you've nailed it.

[+mommio]

I do a lot of ghost towns in my area. Sometimes the only thing left of a ghost town is the cemetery. Usually I place a cache outside the cemetery. But the other day I placed a cache at a gravesite because the granddaughter of the family asked me to. The grave is her grandparents' site and they were the original settlers of the ghost town which has no other remnants except the cemetery. When I write up the cache page and submit it, there will be an explanation of why the cache is there and a brief history of the town and the role her grandparents played in its history. In this particular case, I don't think the cache is disrespectful. It pleases my friend who wants folks to know about the town and her grandparents part in creating it.

I think caches at old cemeteries are a wonderful way to draw attention to the history of an area. There is something to be learned about early settlers and their trials and tribulations from the epitaphs. I am sure that the people buried in these old cemeteries would be grateful to know that someone has dropped by to read their gravestones and for a moment at least to be interested in them. Wouldn't it be nice if you were going to one of these cemeteries to retrieve a cache to bring a few flowers to place on one or two of the old graves?

[+Team Cotati]

I went to find a cache today and it was in a cemetary. I know this is not abnormal, I have been to several cemetaries but this cache was hidden in a flower urn next to a head stone. Is it just me or is this crossing the line? Like I said I have been to several cemetaries in my short time of doing this but all but one cache was hidden on the outside edge of the propety inside a tree or something. The other was in a bush next to a head stone, I wasnt happy about this one either but was not sure if the bush was cemetary property or belongs to the family who placed the head stone. But this one today is obviously hidden on, for lack of a better term "private property". Am I the only one who feels this way? And because i am new to this were would i go to report this if others feel it is wrong. Maybe i am just over reacting, and if you guys say i am then that will be it and i will drop the subject. Tell me what ya think!

 

No, you're not over reacting. You are reacting like a rational and respectful person. Unfortunately though there seem to be some who don't think that way.

 

When you report this to the local reviewer, please let us know what he/she had to say, will you? Thanks.

[+Team Cotati]

I do a lot of ghost towns in my area. Sometimes the only thing left of a ghost town is the cemetery. Usually I place a cache outside the cemetery. But the other day I placed a cache at a gravesite because the granddaughter of the family asked me to. The grave is her grandparents' site and they were the original settlers of the ghost town which has no other remnants except the cemetery. When I write up the cache page and submit it, there will be an explanation of why the cache is there and a brief history of the town and the role her grandparents played in its history. In this particular case, I don't think the cache is disrespectful. It pleases my friend who wants folks to know about the town and her grandparents part in creating it.

I think caches at old cemeteries are a wonderful way to draw attention to the history of an area. There is something to be learned about early settlers and their trials and tribulations from the epitaphs. I am sure that the people buried in these old cemeteries would be grateful to know that someone has dropped by to read their gravestones and for a moment at least to be interested in them. Wouldn't it be nice if you were going to one of these cemeteries to retrieve a cache to bring a few flowers to place on one or two of the old graves?

 

And just suppose that the families of the other 'residents' there do not share your opinion? Each individual and their family do not set the standards for an entire cemetery comprised of the shared land resources of many many families.

 

People who have historical or other reasonable interests in visiting cemeteries ought to simply go do that. OR gain the explicit written permission of the cemetery owner/manager. Everyone understands the sensitive nature of these places and ought to act that way.

Edited August 15, 2007 by Team Cotati

[+SMOKEATERLT]

I went to find a cache today and it was in a cemetary. I know this is not abnormal, I have been to several cemetaries but this cache was hidden in a flower urn next to a head stone. Is it just me or is this crossing the line? Like I said I have been to several cemetaries in my short time of doing this but all but one cache was hidden on the outside edge of the propety inside a tree or something. The other was in a bush next to a head stone, I wasnt happy about this one either but was not sure if the bush was cemetary property or belongs to the family who placed the head stone. But this one today is obviously hidden on, for lack of a better term "private property". Am I the only one who feels this way? And because i am new to this were would i go to report this if others feel it is wrong. Maybe i am just over reacting, and if you guys say i am then that will be it and i will drop the subject. Tell me what ya think!

 

No, you're not over reacting. You are reacting like a rational and respectful person. Unfortunately though there seem to be some who don't think that way.

 

When you report this to the local reviewer, please let us know what he/she had to say, will you? Thanks.

 

I will not be sending this to a reviewer because the person who owns this cache has contacted me in this post as well in email and has said that the cache has been moved from its original position and he is unable at this time to replace it. Thank you for your support, I feel very bad for upsetting the cache owner. I ment nor harm but I am affraid that I have done some anyhow.

[+briansnat]

I would like to publically apologize to Team S&B no BS about it! I should have contacted him first to discuss this situation. But being new to geocaching i did not know this. That is reason for the post. In order to try and make ammends I have offered to replace the cache for Team S&B no BS about it as he is unable to at this time. I truelly ment no harm and feel very bad for upsetting and possibly giving him a bad name.

 

Despite what the some of the forum cops are trying to tell you, you did nothing wrong. You saw a questionable situation and came here for opinions. Too bad more people don't do that. Too often you see inappropriate caches with log after log from grateful finders, not one who stopped to think that maybe the cache shouldn't be there.

 

You did everything right. You came here with an earnest question, you didn't name names or make wild accusations. You just asked for advice. Sure, some amateur detectives combed through your profile to figure out which cache it was, but you can't be blamed because other people are nosy and just had to know who it was.

 

No need to make amends for that, but it is a nice gesture to help out the cache owner.

[+StarBrand]

....I will not be sending this to a reviewer because the person who owns this cache has contacted me in this post as well in email and has said that the cache has been moved from its original position and he is unable at this time to replace it. Thank you for your support, I feel very bad for upsetting the cache owner. I ment nor harm but I am affraid that I have done some anyhow.

No need to apologize - you asked for advice on how to proceed. In essence - that is exactly what these forums are for.

[+Rockin Roddy]

I went to find a cache today and it was in a cemetary. I know this is not abnormal, I have been to several cemetaries but this cache was hidden in a flower urn next to a head stone. Is it just me or is this crossing the line? Like I said I have been to several cemetaries in my short time of doing this but all but one cache was hidden on the outside edge of the propety inside a tree or something. The other was in a bush next to a head stone, I wasnt happy about this one either but was not sure if the bush was cemetary property or belongs to the family who placed the head stone. But this one today is obviously hidden on, for lack of a better term "private property". Am I the only one who feels this way? And because i am new to this were would i go to report this if others feel it is wrong. Maybe i am just over reacting, and if you guys say i am then that will be it and i will drop the subject. Tell me what ya think!

 

No, you're not over reacting. You are reacting like a rational and respectful person. Unfortunately though there seem to be some who don't think that way.

 

When you report this to the local reviewer, please let us know what he/she had to say, will you? Thanks.

 

Had you read the whole thread, you'd realize that this wasn't placed by the owner...it was moved. I'm guessing from some of your recent comments in previous threads that you're having a bad week? Hope it gets better for you.

 

Hope all is well with you S&B...if you have needs, give me a yell!! Sorry to hear of your health issues! You are in my prayers!!

 

ALSO...DJH, you did the right thing, some made more of this than was needed (as is the case more often than not).

Edited August 15, 2007 by Rockin Roddy

[+Renegade Knight]

If it was placed by the family of the person buried there and they are the ones who made the arragments for them to be buried there. It's also not crossing the line if they are the direct decendeands or the only remaining family who cares.

 

Otherwise it's a bit much.

 

Either way I'd just not feel comfortable doing the cache.

[+Renegade Knight]

...Had you read the whole thread, you'd realize that this wasn't placed by the owner...it was moved. I'm guessing from some of your recent comments in previous threads that you're having a bad week? Hope it gets better for you.

...

Fair point. The orginal cache may have been ok. The owner does need to move it back. Some finders have no class. Or muggles in this case thinking they are being funny.

[videolady]

I went to find a cache today and it was in a cemetary. I know this is not abnormal, I have been to several cemetaries but this cache was hidden in a flower urn next to a head stone. Is it just me or is this crossing the line? Like I said I have been to several cemetaries in my short time of doing this but all but one cache was hidden on the outside edge of the propety inside a tree or something. The other was in a bush next to a head stone, I wasnt happy about this one either but was not sure if the bush was cemetary property or belongs to the family who placed the head stone. But this one today is obviously hidden on, for lack of a better term "private property". Am I the only one who feels this way? And because i am new to this were would i go to report this if others feel it is wrong. Maybe i am just over reacting, and if you guys say i am then that will be it and i will drop the subject. Tell me what ya think!

 

I have to agree with you on this one. It's only right that we have respect.

[+andreos]

If geocaching is still around when I kick it I want my tombstone to have an integrated ammo can compartment, and the stone to have a "Thanks for visiting...Happy Hunting" message.

[+Kealia]

I would like to publically apologize to Team S&B no BS about it! I should have contacted him first to discuss this situation. But being new to geocaching i did not know this. That is reason for the post. In order to try and make ammends I have offered to replace the cache for Team S&B no BS about it as he is unable to at this time. I truelly ment no harm and feel very bad for upsetting and possibly giving him a bad name. As I explained to him in my email I was cahing with my 5yr old son and had been tring to teach him respect in cemeteries. I had to try and explain to him why I was looking where I was and I guess I was upset for having to explain it. Thank you all for your reponses I am glad to know that you people are truelly consious about your actions. I believe i have found a sport for my family that we will enjoy for a long time.

My only comment here is the section I bolded. If you weren't comfortable searching where you were, you shouldn't have. As you are teaching your son about respect, you don't want him getting the idea that it's OK to do something because that's where the cache is.

I'm not lecturing you, just pointing out that your attempt at teaching respect may have been lost while you were focused on the cache.

 

As for how you handled the whole situation, I agree with the guy who put an octopus in his mouth:

Despite what the some of the forum cops are trying to tell you, you did nothing wrong. You saw a questionable situation and came here for opinions. Too bad more people don't do that. Too often you see inappropriate caches with log after log from grateful finders, not one who stopped to think that maybe the cache shouldn't be there.

 

You did everything right. You came here with an earnest question, you didn't name names or make wild accusations. You just asked for advice. Sure, some amateur detectives combed through your profile to figure out which cache it was, but you can't be blamed because other people are nosy and just had to know who it was.

 

No need to make amends for that, but it is a nice gesture to help out the cache owner.

[+FireRef]

If geocaching is still around when I kick it I want my tombstone to have an integrated ammo can compartment, and the stone to have a "Thanks for visiting...Happy Hunting" message.

 

That's funny!

 

I do find it interesting that I have gotten some ideas for memorials I would like to have for myself, considering all of the ones that I've seen in my caching experiences!

[+Arndtwe]

it depends on the situation if it is inappropriate or not. lets say for instance, it was a family member who was a devout cacher, and wanted one on his/her headstone, that would be fine, since technically, your family owns the property. or lets say it was a friend that cached, and his family did not, but they wanted one placed there, that would be fine. any circumstance of that nature would be appropriate. now if the person who hides this has no relation and/or there was no request to ave this done, then, yes, this is definitely inappropriate. if i were you, i wol not worry about it to much, im sure if there is a problem, it will be fixed eventually.

[57chevy]

Would someone please explain to me how a cache at a gravesite is disrespectful. I was under the assumption that this wasn't just a random gravesite. I mean sure if ya take a Jart and sling it into a cemetery and and place a cache at whoevers grave it lands by , sure that would be wrong. But if I for instance decided to place a cache at a loved ones grave, I don't get how that would be wrong or disrespectful. Cemeterys around here are generally quiet and devoid of muggles, and are in general nice places to visit. I also have to chime in that no one is forcing you to seek these caches, If hallowed ground isn't someplace for you, then ixnay on the emetcerysay.

[+Team Cotati]

Would someone please explain to me how a cache at a gravesite is disrespectful. I was under the assumption that this wasn't just a random gravesite. I mean sure if ya take a Jart and sling it into a cemetery and and place a cache at whoevers grave it lands by , sure that would be wrong. But if I for instance decided to place a cache at a loved ones grave, I don't get how that would be wrong or disrespectful. Cemeterys around here are generally quiet and devoid of muggles, and are in general nice places to visit. I also have to chime in that no one is forcing you to seek these caches, If hallowed ground isn't someplace for you, then ixnay on the emetcerysay.

 

You might want to check with TPB because it is my understanding that they are vigorously discouraging such hides. Perhaps that is a groundless rumor, I doubt it.

 

Disrespect might be in the eyes of the disrespected, who knows. Like I said, get the written permission from the cemetery management, then we gots no issue. To presume that none of the folk associated with the dearly departed just because you think that they should just doesn't make it.

 

I've seen some in here proffer that apparently the occasional jogger or bicyclist that might pass thru a cemetery in and of itself justifies the actions of cachers whatever they might choose to do. That is certainly one person's opinion, a person who has zero connection to the resting place of close friends or relatives.

 

I've heard the same or similar arguments wrt something called 'social trails'. Often compared to animal trails as if the humans who create these social trails do not know any better than some dumb arse deer.

 

Nopers.