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FTF Sharks


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One thing that does annoy me is people plotting the co-ords on google earth and going straight to the cache<snip>

Er, is the whole point not to go straight to them? You put the coords into the GPSr and go to it. Google earth won't help you find exactly where in the ivy the micro is hidden.

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Who cares who's FTF? Not me. One thing that does annoy me is people plotting the co-ords on google earth and going straight to the cache, seems to spoil MY fun in setting them. To prevent this I usually set a micro cache with co-ordinates inside for a box cache. This may help you. :P

I would be very impressed by anyone who found my caches using Google Earth as the cache position jumps about on the map as you watch and is generally quite a way from the real location.

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I would be very impressed by anyone who found my caches using Google Earth as the cache position jumps about on the map as you watch and is generally quite a way from the real location.

 

You can put in the coordinates yourself though, rather than using the gc.com kml file. There's an export to google earth macro from GSAK too iirc.

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Who cares who's FTF? Not me. One thing that does annoy me is people plotting the co-ords on google earth and going straight to the cache, seems to spoil MY fun in setting them. To prevent this I usually set a micro cache with co-ordinates inside for a box cache. This may help you. :P

I would be very impressed by anyone who found my caches using Google Earth as the cache position jumps about on the map as you watch and is generally quite a way from the real location.

 

II'll confess I managed a FTF on this cache Castle Views 3 using Google Earth. I'd been watching a White Jeep in the County and as soon as the Jeep was dropped I got an email, tracked it using Googleearth - and then set out to find the unpublished cache. Which I pretty sure I found and logged before it was published! the Second to find on this cache then used the same "Trick" to find the same White Jeep in another new cache!

 

I don't go mad to rush for FTFs, unless they are pretty local or a Puzzle cache and I don't really mind who gets the FTFs on my caches though as others have said it's nice if it's a newbie.

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Perhaps the OP could indulge in an "arms race" making each new cache FTF-proof. I have a Romulan cloaking device for sale at £50 if anyone wants it.

If that's the one you bought from me on eBay, you still haven't paid me for it :P

You'll never see your money! :P

I put it down somewhere in the Lakes and now I can't find it! It was the special "Emperor's New Clothes" model. :D

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Who cares who's FTF? Not me. One thing that does annoy me is people plotting the co-ords on google earth and going straight to the cache, seems to spoil MY fun in setting them. To prevent this I usually set a micro cache with co-ordinates inside for a box cache. This may help you. :P

 

A lot of people have maps on PDAs anyway so it's just as easy to plot the next stage of a multi on there. I can't see why someone using a map in whatever form could possibly spoil the fun of the setter.

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Who cares who's FTF? Not me. One thing that does annoy me is people plotting the co-ords on google earth and going straight to the cache, seems to spoil MY fun in setting them. To prevent this I usually set a micro cache with co-ordinates inside for a box cache. This may help you. :P

 

A lot of people have maps on PDAs anyway so it's just as easy to plot the next stage of a multi on there. I can't see why someone using a map in whatever form could possibly spoil the fun of the setter.

 

If you're watching a TravelBug, when its placed in say the Final Part of a Multi, when you look at the T/B page you can track it's journey on Google Earth. Google Earth will display "Rough" coordinates of where the final cache is or indeed will display the Rough coordinates of an unpublished cache.

 

That's the reason it's a trifle unsporting - although much depends on the final location an dhow many cache hiding spots there are with 200 yards or so.

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What you should consider is that it is a big compliment to you that the same people want to go out and be the FTF to find your cache hides again and again. If I were you, I'd be more worried if FTFer's weren't interested.

 

Personally I always think its a relief once someone's found my caches. I think if the usual suspects didn't head out to find my caches right away I'd be a bit insulted that they didn't want to bother and would worry that my caches were pants!

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Who cares who's FTF? Not me. One thing that does annoy me is people plotting the co-ords on google earth and going straight to the cache, seems to spoil MY fun in setting them. To prevent this I usually set a micro cache with co-ordinates inside for a box cache. This may help you. :P

 

A lot of people have maps on PDAs anyway so it's just as easy to plot the next stage of a multi on there. I can't see why someone using a map in whatever form could possibly spoil the fun of the setter.

 

If you're watching a TravelBug, when its placed in say the Final Part of a Multi, when you look at the T/B page you can track it's journey on Google Earth. Google Earth will display "Rough" coordinates of where the final cache is or indeed will display the Rough coordinates of an unpublished cache.

 

That's the reason it's a trifle unsporting - although much depends on the final location an dhow many cache hiding spots there are with 200 yards or so.

 

Umm, the post I was replying to mentioned plotting the cache on google earth being unsporting, it never mentioned TBs.

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I see nothing wrong in a local always being able to get to a cache first, it's all part on the game, also got nothing against how a cache owner sets their cache to the benefit of certain sections of geocachers, whether that being requesting it be published at a certain time or requiring certain local knowledge that you feel you regular will take longer to find than other locals.

 

One problem you've done with this post is that you've made it too easy to identify the guy, looking at the individials profile I'm not surprised they're rushing out to your caches as the new ones local are the only one's available locally.

 

Recommendation on when to hide your next caches - this individual doesn't do much caching on a Tuesday and Thursday during August. Another idea to stop him being FTF - take him to the pub for a drink the night the cache gets publish, get him drunk enough so he's not legal to drive the next day. :D

 

Actually I haven't done any caching in August during any day with a 'y' at the end as we have just moved house - that was until Saturday when I went out with... Westie Walker

The caveat in taking me to the pub is that I'll still be there long after WW has fallen off his bike into some bushes (full story available on request :D )

Seems I might need to start up a thread about cachers claiming mystery caches that they never actually solve.... :D:P

Anyone coming to our cache event on Friday can join in the debate live. :P

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sorry, i'm inclined to say that the people rushing out to get the FTF's are quite within their rights and any

 

i'm sure that the approvers will be happy if you place a cache and DO NOT publish it until after the event.

take a pile of cache sheets with you and issue them to everyone at the same time.

OMG, then people would actually have to input co-ordinates with their fingers!!

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LucyLocket10 and I often put bets on to see who will FTF our new caches. Its quite surprising sometimes. I also remember my first FTF. It was a difficult puzzle and I didnt own a GPS at that point. It was my determination to get FTF that was the most fun. I wouldnt have enjoyed it any less is someone else had got there first and it certainly wouldnt have dimmed my enthusiasm for the game. I still enjoy going out after FTF and will continue to do so. Handing FTF to someone on a plate is a little unsporting I think but if thats what you want to do then go for it. I did stagger the relase of a series into two sections and it did kind of up-the-ante but not many went out for the first half until the second half was in place anyway.

 

Good luck with trying anyway!

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Interesting topic here. I dont rush to do FTF's here but boy am I happy when I get them. I dont have access to a car in the day so If I get a cache close enough for me to cycle to on a work day at lunchtime its one hell of a thrill to get it first. Its also good to beat the guys who do often get FTFs.

 

However - people who drive miles for caches - have you thought about this: If they have that much enthusiasm, maybe its because they have done all their local and extended local caches. When a new one is published, that may well be their nearest one. (obviously 100 miles is a bit extreme) So they are doing no different than you tagging a local cache to you, as this may well be their closest.

 

Just a thought

 

Mafiu

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I have heard of some idiots driving more than 100 miles to garb a FTF, I have got 15 FTF's but will not deliberatley go out of my way to grab them

I suppose the idiot bit could refer to me, cos back in 2001 , when there were only about 50 caches around and only a handfull of cachers, thats the distance we sometimes had to travel to find a cache. I enjoyed the get up at 5am and travel south, a much better feeling of achievment them days, no google earth or nowt else to help. just the gps and a big heavy map of the uk. and days when the gps said 100m to cache. it might have taken you on a walk of a couple of miles to actually get to it rather than wade a river. now there's about 150 within a few miles 1 to 6 miles of me.and I still havn't been to them. fun seemed to go out of it a bit . Might do a couple later on in the year <_<

Nige

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Gosh Nige you do bring back memories - I've just looked up my first find and it was 80.92 miles away. Mine was the FTF and it had been in place 2 months and a day! Perhaps that was partly explained by the fact that it was in a foot and mouth restricted area which I had unknowingly entered, making myself liable to a £2000 fine! <_<

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sorry, i'm inclined to say that the people rushing out to get the FTF's are quite within their rights and any

 

i'm sure that the approvers will be happy if you place a cache and DO NOT publish it until after the event.

take a pile of cache sheets with you and issue them to everyone at the same time.

OMG, then people would actually have to input co-ordinates with their fingers!!

 

I'm one of the regular FTF-chasers around my area, and put in all my co-ordinates by hand.

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I'd only be annoyed at FTF hunters if they mopped up all new caches laid out at an event.

 

I was at the Lake District event in June where 10 new caches were put out by The Golem. We could've bagged 5, as could Pirate Matt, but instead we both got 2 then left the rest for others.

If we'd bagged all 10, I can understand the deep displeasure this would cause.

 

As for non event FTFs - its a free for all race for some so why spoil it.

In fact I'm surprised why the Cacher of the Month points don't include points for FTFs...

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Sorry I did not mean to annoy anybody but I got this log on one of the caches that I have staggered the release of this week and think that it has a lot more meaning than the "OO another FTF aren't I clever" type of log. It makes the effort of setting the cache feel more worthwile.

 

Yeepiee!!! Finally a FTF on a WW cache!! After chasing several and being beaten by quicker cachers, it’s a joy to finally be FTF. Joint FTF today with my friend Annieannimul, who found the cache quickly. The coordinates were spot on and the additional hint was helpful. This was a nice cache and dash. Took TB and gazillion bubbles for my toddler who just love bubbles. Left signal geocoin.

 

I an grateful for all the seekers that go after one of my caches, not the most difficult finds but normally a reasonable walk and always dog friendly, keep on caching and did not mean to name anybody (should have been more cryptic)

 

W.W.

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For me, the difference between going for a cache, and going for a FTF, is that with the FTF, I'm not just battling the elements, the GPS and my own cache-blindness/stupidity. I'm also racing against some very good, highly experienced cachers in my area, and the racing aspect of it, adds some excitement. We don't do many FTFs (I think, about a dozen so far), but each one has that extra something. It isn't the thrill of being the first to write on a blank page, it's the competition against other cachers.

 

So if someone is especially enjoying getting the FTFs, I'd say that's fine, plus it gives me one more great cacher to have to try to race!

 

But would the "FTF sharks" put off newbies? I don't think so. When we were newbie, we were pleased just to be able to find a cache - racing for FTF just wasn't in our thoughts at all.

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Well, I've trawled through this and can't see one reason the OP might be miffed: FTF prizes. So far I have been lucky enough to get to FTF's without really trying but was a little disappointed that there wasn't even a certificate for me to have as a souvineer of the occasion.

 

The caches I have set had not only certificates, but a sealed envelope with FTF and STF prizes, plus the offer of the pick of the goodies. Perhaps I could afford to be so generous as I've only set two caches, but if the OP is even just taking time to make certificates then it probably is a bit demoralising to see them being lifted by the same suspects time after time.

 

The answer? Don't have one gov, but a modest observation might be that there are far too many caches being set that have neither merit, interest or quality (puts flame proof coat on), which are probably only fodder for FTF ho's and of little interest after.

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We got four FTF's last week -without trying- two by one setter had FTF certificates, the other two by another setter didn't have certificates. All had been listed for about a week.

 

We enjoyed all four equally, and were not out for extra prizes for FTF. If they have 'extras' it's an added bonus.

 

It's about trying to find the cache without a cachers trail, and the (slight) possibility that the co-ords might be 'a little off' all part of the fun!

 

Maybe the caches need to be set further away from the FTF'r?!

 

G

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So what's the attraction to be a FTF? I have a few under my belt but I can't recall many at all I had gone out of my way for. Personally I like a few others to find a cache first... then any amended coords/multi calculations/past logs etc. makes my life just that little bit easier :mad:

Jon

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I enjoy almost every cache I find, irrespective of how many people have found it before me. I do have 5 FTFs under my belt though and enjoyed the extra buzz of knowing that i was 1st there (and being one of only a few people on the planet to know it was there...)

In Basingstoke the same names often appear at the start of the log book/sheet so if i'm around and notice a cache in the area thats not been logged then I will go out there and try and get it. More for my own warm fuzzy feeling that to beat the others.

FTF has become a large part of the game (why else would GC.com create notifications when theres a perfectly good email each Friday!?) Just listen to a Podcacher episode to hear people getting excited about an FTF.

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[rant] In defence of FTF tarts everywhere, if we have a GC.com account, and especially if we are premium members, then why do you get grumpy just because we have access to exactly the same information as everyone else, but use it more quickly?

Some people seem to think that FTFers are obsessive (ask my wife), but most of us also find considerably more established caches. [/rant ]

Personally I am relieved when caches I have set have been found, it's worrying if the local 'usual suspects' stay away. Also, on more than one occasion, when some other, local cachers have hidden a new cache and it has not been found for over a day I have even received an email asking 'Where are you?'

As for my reasons for being an FTF tart, see drsolly's reply, I'm in total agreement, although there is a thrill in finding the log book empty. But then, after all, it's not about the numbers.

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In a continuation of the above rant, precisely how long are we “supposed” to wait for the newbies, who, as has already been intimated in this thread, are more interested in finding any caches let alone FTFs, to find the recent releases?

 

You wait a respectable time, even if you’ve been in the area of a new release and left it alone, and nothing happens for a few days and then some nearby non-selachian cacher grabs it and says, “Ho ho, I’m surprised none of the locals have got to this; it’s been out for ages.” The joyous FTFer illustrated in the red font above isn’t even a premium member. So tough.

 

There’s a new one 25km away from me. Think I’ll get it. Now.

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Well, I got my First FTF this evening and it was exciting. I did worry that somebody else would beat me to it... but no I was lucky. I just missed out a week or so ago and was second. I hope I never turn into a shark but I can understand how it happens.... but then when I look about there are some that look straightforward (in the next county) which nobody has gone to do..... I could be tempted! But no, I am scratching my head trying to solve a Puzzle Cache which is near me and nobody has yet found!

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I understand what WW means, but the irony of somebody that averages three caches per day and has left his personalised calling card all across the south being annoyed at obsesive cachers, is not lost on me.

 

I find the trouble with the First to Find logs written by FTF sharks/hounds/ whatever, is they rarely comment about the cache itself, they are too busy being smug. The next few logs are usually stories from silver and bronze hounds and how they were beaten, by so and so, etc.

 

Few of them are ever critical of the cache itself, even if it has incorrect difficulty or terrain markings or any other problems. The FTF authors seem unwilling to type anything that belittles their proud achievement. Unfortunately the FTF hounds are not very helpful to anyone who likes reading logs for insight.

 

However everyone is different and I am sure all these sharks love the chase, the monitoring and the competition. I like the walk, the views and the daylight, but each to their own.

Edited by pauliesg
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Personally, I think everyone can play the game however they like, but I do agree with Westie Walker about the sharks. It would be nice for the FTF's to go around. It sux when one person always gets the FTF. Like grow up and give others a chance to feel the FTF specialness too. I think these sharks are just selfish, obsession driven cachers who have lost the real zeal for this sport of geocaching. I wonder if they even go after caches unless they have just been published? I can just see a shark crying and balling his/her eyes out after being second to find. Actually, that would make a great video to post on this forum. Not to mention being bitter about and towards the FTFer. This is when this sport loses its awesomness.

Just my 2cents' worth,

Cheers,

ImmY

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As someone who has a few FTF's to my name and maybe has been known to go out in the small hours I probably count as shark. Well after reading this I have been converted. For this cache I have stated my intention to collect and the time I will do so, giving nearly 12 hours for anybody to pick up the FTF. OK so the puzzle is fairly hard and my main 'rival/partner in crime' is stuck in France; but it is a start.

 

On a more serious note the competitive nature of the FTF scene where I live (Surrey/Sussex borders) has meant that I have made lots of new friends. There is the banter on the cache page and on the trads you can bet your life that you'll meet someone at the cache if you go quick enough. Although the seven account holders who converged on GC13ZZX was a little out of the ordinary.

 

Anyway enough of my ramblings I ought to do some work.

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I really don't see that there is a problem. Not all newbies are bothered about being FTF. Trying to deliberately make it harder or more annoying for an experienced cacher is just going to lead to bad feeling.

 

I was particularly pleased that an experienced cacher was FTF on a long multi I set and he was able to correct a couple of mistakes I had made. These mistakes might otherwise have put a newbie off caching, or at least off multis.

 

At least your cache is being found, isn't that the main reason for setting them. Everyone plays the 'game' differently. Making it harder or timing the cache when you know certain people are not available will just cause bad feeling.

 

Not all 'oldies' are bothered about an FTF either, leave the race for the adrenaline seekers!! If a clump of new caches nearby turn up when you have depleated the local area I can possibly understand people wanting to rush out and do them, but FTF I can take or leave.

 

I usually avoid long multi caches until they have been found for that very reason of there possibly being errors, and I cringe until my own multis have been found.

 

Puzzles - well I enjoy actually being able to solve them, finding the cache after that is secondary to the enjoyment for me.

 

I thought that everyone who found the cache on the first day got FTF status anyway?

 

I'm assuming you've quoted me because you're agreeing with me; although the first line of your post sounds a bit like you aren't!

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In a continuation of the above rant, precisely how long are we “supposed” to wait for the newbies, who, as has already been intimated in this thread, are more interested in finding any caches let alone FTFs, to find the recent releases?

 

You wait a respectable time, even if you’ve been in the area of a new release and left it alone, and nothing happens for a few days and then some nearby non-selachian cacher grabs it and says, “Ho ho, I’m surprised none of the locals have got to this; it’s been out for ages.” The joyous FTFer illustrated in the red font above isn’t even a premium member. So tough.

 

There’s a new one 25km away from me. Think I’ll get it. Now.

 

To me that says they have given up trying. ;)

 

You see those logs when the usuall suspects are on holiday like "surprised this one was unfound 12 hours after release"

 

Good luck to anyone who gets a FTF on our caches we try to level the playing field by releasing at the weekend so as many as possible think they could get that FTF but would never do anything else.

 

At least we dont have FTF clubs like they do in the USA

 

The generic logs are annoying are they all copied and pasted ?

 

:lol::lol::) F.T.F.!! :D:D:D

 

Saw this go live at 7am and was out in the car at 7.15 and at the site at 8. Relieved to see no other cars. Found cache easily after a brief search and took certificate / travel bug. Nice location.

TFTC.

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I really don't see that there is a problem. Not all newbies are bothered about being FTF. Trying to deliberately make it harder or more annoying for an experienced cacher is just going to lead to bad feeling.

 

I was particularly pleased that an experienced cacher was FTF on a long multi I set and he was able to correct a couple of mistakes I had made. These mistakes might otherwise have put a newbie off caching, or at least off multis.

 

At least your cache is being found, isn't that the main reason for setting them. Everyone plays the 'game' differently. Making it harder or timing the cache when you know certain people are not available will just cause bad feeling.

 

Not all 'oldies' are bothered about an FTF either, leave the race for the adrenaline seekers!! If a clump of new caches nearby turn up when you have depleated the local area I can possibly understand people wanting to rush out and do them, but FTF I can take or leave.

 

I usually avoid long multi caches until they have been found for that very reason of there possibly being errors, and I cringe until my own multis have been found.

 

Puzzles - well I enjoy actually being able to solve them, finding the cache after that is secondary to the enjoyment for me.

 

I thought that everyone who found the cache on the first day got FTF status anyway?

 

I'm assuming you've quoted me because you're agreeing with me; although the first line of your post sounds a bit like you aren't!

 

Yes, quoted you as I agree, and added my bit! sorry I didn't make myself clear. :lol:

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Actually tonight I have been talked around and I now realise the true evil in caching circles is not FTF but STF - those not committed enough to be first but slightly keener than those who take it in their stride. Perhaps once a cache is found once it should be disabled for say 4 days and 4 hours so a TTF can be established ?

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It's up to newbies to get out there and earn an FTF if they want one, although I do think there is something a bit sad about driving long distances specifically for an FTF.

 

There's also something very sad about going for an FTF late at night in the dark when the cache has presumably been placed to show you the views / location etc.

 

We tend (though not always) to leave local caches for a quiet Sunday or a rainy weekend when we don't want to go too far to cache. Still the casual cacher rarely does them and the FTF hound comes to visit.

 

Is your FTF hound a Premium Member? If not, publish to PM's until it's found. Most serious newbies become PM's pretty quickly these days in my experience. And never publish mid-week unless for mid-summer evenings (not that that really relevant this year).

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There's also something very sad about going for an FTF late at night in the dark when the cache has presumably been placed to show you the views / location etc.

 

Well, I guess that makes US very sad people. We have found a number of FTFs at night. Until you have tried it you would not understand what a buzz and rush of adrenalin it creates. In fact any night time caching adventure can add a totally new dimension. We will continue to cache in our own way, without any apologies. Don't knock it until you try it.

 

Izzy & Paul

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Is your FTF hound a Premium Member? If not, publish to PM's until it's found. Most serious newbies become PM's pretty quickly these days in my experience. And never publish mid-week unless for mid-summer evenings (not that that really relevant this year).

 

If you're going to do it seriously then you've either got to be glued to you computer (which I'm not), or else be a PM, with use of PQs and InstaNotifys, otherwise another FTF hound will get in there first. B):unsure:

 

AFAIC once a cache is published, it's a free for all for who gets the FTF, the information is in the public domain and may be used by FTF hound or newbie alike. I've actually met more active cachers whilst out on an FTF hunt (approx 170 locations) than I've met searching for established caches (approx 600 locations, not counting locationless, events, or caches at events etc.)

 

FTF hounds do not get preferential treatment about caches being placed, it's just that by their experience they have learnt a particular way of playing the game. We were all newbies at one time, if we want to log some FTFs some of us develop a technique, some of us occasionally stumble across them, and if you're really sad you set up two accounts, hide caches under one name and log a FTF under the other name. :(

 

As far as night caching in general, and night FTFing in particular, is concerned, don't knock it until you've tried it, it certainly adds an extra dimension which can compensate for lack of scenery. In fact the scenery and creatures in your mind can be much more vivid than anything your eyes show you! Check out one of my favourite caches for an example GC10YGF

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There's also something very sad about going for an FTF late at night in the dark when the cache has presumably been placed to show you the views / location etc.

As you say, that's very presumptuous on several levels. And sometimes there's no choice: alternative cache idea unlikely to be visited by those cachers who secretly prefer Morris dancing.

Obviously there are exceptions, but we are talking generally here.

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