Bad mannered Cacher

August 8, 2007

Hi. I won't name the cacher, but over the weekend, I visited a TB hotel and dropped and took some TBs. I even started the voyage of one of my TBs. This was a great hide, not too hard, but not in the open at all.

Anyway, the next day another Cacher deemed this Hotel to be too easy to find and removed all 16 TBs, and did not bother to leave a note for the owner. He finally posted a note saying he did not feel this was a good place for TBs, so he took them all to move them. His claim is not valid.

This cache was set-up by a family and the kids were crushed that someone ruined their cache. I looked thru his past posts, and he has a history of being the Cache Police and removing Cashes he thinks are too easy.

How can we stop someone like him from ruining peoples legitimate Caches?

:rolleyes:

August 8, 2007

Hi. I won't name the cacher, but over the weekend, I visited a TB hotel and dropped and took some TBs. I even started the voyage of one of my TBs. This was a great hide, not too hard, but not in the open at all.

Anyway, the next day another Cacher deemed this Hotel to be too easy to find and removed all 16 TBs, and did not bother to leave a note for the owner. He finally posted a note saying he did not feel this was a good place for TBs, so he took them all to move them. His claim is not valid.

This cache was set-up by a family and the kids were crushed that someone ruined their cache. I looked thru his past posts, and he has a history of being the Cache Police and removing Cashes he thinks are too easy.

How can we stop someone like him from ruining peoples legitimate Caches?

:rolleyes: The cache in question is Five Girls Travel Bug Hotel GC14M0H. This @#$#*(&^ :lol: jerk takes all of the TB's out of the cache because he does not like the placement.

Hope everyone lets him know your feelings.

Edited August 8, 2007 by txoilgas

22k · August 8, 2007

Hi. I won't name the cacher, but over the weekend, I visited a TB hotel and dropped and took some TBs. I even started the voyage of one of my TBs. This was a great hide, not too hard, but not in the open at all.

Anyway, the next day another Cacher deemed this Hotel to be too easy to find and removed all 16 TBs, and did not bother to leave a note for the owner. He finally posted a note saying he did not feel this was a good place for TBs, so he took them all to move them. His claim is not valid.

This cache was set-up by a family and the kids were crushed that someone ruined their cache. I looked thru his past posts, and he has a history of being the Cache Police and removing Cashes he thinks are too easy.

How can we stop someone like him from ruining peoples legitimate Caches?

Please keep in mind that a TB hotel tends to be easy access caches which means that they usually are placed near populated areas. If this hotel was muggled it would have lost many travel bugs, 16 in total. That is way too many to lose at once.

Here's some advice that is worth considering:

"If a travel bug hotel is in a good spot for the quick and easy exchange of travel bugs, then an empty hotel won't stay empty long. People are always looking for a convenient place to drop bugs off. The owner of a well-placed hotel should actually be pleased if the hotel is occasionally empty, since it shows that the hotel is serving its purpose: to get bugs moving quickly. And if a hotel does stay empty for long periods of time without the cache owner continually raiding other caches to re-stock it, then it's not a good place for a travel bug hotel." - The Hermit Crabs, Dec 2 2005

Edited August 8, 2007 by BlueDeuce

4k · August 8, 2007

Each situation is different.

I cant really see a problem with the taking of the TB's. As long as the person moves them all quickly then they are helping the TB's do what they were meant to do, travel.

I wouldn't say that the cache is ruined. Is it?

If they removed the cache, or hid it elsewhere then that is not cool.

What i find interesting is that we are supposed to police each other but when someone does it seems to tick others off. Not this situation in particular, but situations in general.

4k · August 8, 2007

Uh, why was it disabled?

Seems like the people upset don't understand how TB's work.

August 8, 2007

The cache in question is Five Girls Travel Bug Hotel GC14M0H

Edited August 8, 2007 by txoilgas

10.1k · August 8, 2007

Travel Bugs are not trade items. Anyone may move them on to new caches. Moving sixteen bugs may have been extreme, but that is deinitely within the guidelines for moving travel bugs. Or was this a travel bug prison?

I have seen some very poorly placed TB motels. And other caches where I would not leave a TB. The cacher in question is one whose opinions I respect. I would guess that he deemed this to be a very poor location for a TB prison. Bizarre that the owner would disable the cache. Having second thoughts?

Bugs are there to move. The bugs are moving. Not sure that I see the problem. Unless it's a TB prison? Is that what the problem is? Guessing that this one will probably be muggled very quickly, with the ultimate loss of many TBs.

22k · August 8, 2007

The cache in question is Five Girls Travel Bug Hotel GC14M0H. This @#$#*(&^ jerk takes all of the TB's out of the cache because he does not like the placement.

Hope everyone lets him know your feelings.

Personally, I don't think suggesting people harass another cacher for moving travel bugs is ever a good idea.

This is always a good read.

Get Out of (TB) Jail Free

August 8, 2007

Everybody is making comments without going to the cache page and see what was written.

:rolleyes:

1.7k · August 8, 2007

As far as I am concerned since the cacher moved all the TB's they did nothing wrong. Placing a TB hotel in an area that has a high muggle activity and even states it in the description is a reciepe for disaster.

TB's should move not sit in a cache because you have to add a TB for everyone you take.

1.7k · August 8, 2007

Everybody is making comments without going to the cache page and see what was written.

I read the cache page and I still have no problem with the cacher moving all 16 TB's. TB's should move around and not be stuck in a hotel with "rules".

10.1k · August 8, 2007

Everybody is making comments without going to the cache page and see what was written.

Seems to me that most of us have looked at the cache page. And expressed our opinions based on that, though OP did not post the cache page.

1.5k · August 8, 2007

The cache is question is a travel bug prison, because it has a "if you take one leave one" rule. The cacher who freed all the bugs did the bug owners a favor, and his actions should be applauded. If I had a bug in that "hotel" I'd be thrilled that he took it out of the prison and moved it along.

While it may be considered "poor etiquette" to take all the bugs out of a cache, it's even worse to place a cache and put restrictions on travel bugs you don't own.

22k · August 8, 2007

Everybody is making comments without going to the cache page and see what was written.

Sure I did.

4k · August 8, 2007

The cache in question is Five Girls Travel Bug Hotel GC14M0H

Everybody is making comments without going to the cache page and see what was written.

I read before i posted. What i don't understand is the comments of the other cachers complaining about the person who took the bugs!

TB's are supposed to travel!! Not stay in a cache! Extreme, sure. But the cache is still there so what is the big deal?

Why was it disabled?

4k · August 8, 2007

The cache is question is a travel bug prison, because it has a "if you take one leave one" rule. The cacher who freed all the bugs did the bug owners a favor, and his actions should be applauded. If I had a bug in that "hotel" I'd be thrilled that he took it out of the prison and moved it along.

Someone should tell the owner that the cache that their TB "rule" as it stand now is in poor taste.

If i found a TB prison i would disregard any "rules" for the cache and may even take all of the TB's depending on the situation.

7.3k · August 8, 2007

The bad manners are in treating travel bugs as trade items. The cacher who moved them all did just fine.

3.3k · August 8, 2007

Travel Bugs are not trade items. Anyone may move them on to new caches. Moving sixteen bugs may have been extreme, but that is deinitely within the guidelines for moving travel bugs. Or was this a travel bug prison?

I have seen some very poorly placed TB motels. And other caches where I would not leave a TB. The cacher in question is one whose opinions I respect. I would guess that he deemed this to be a very poor location for a TB prison. Bizarre that the owner would disable the cache. Having second thoughts?

Bugs are there to move. The bugs are moving. Not sure that I see the problem. Unless it's a TB prison? Is that what the problem is? Guessing that this one will probably be muggled very quickly, with the ultimate loss of many TBs.

I actually agree with the TB mover on two counts.

(1) This cache was a TB prison with the silly rule, "you must leave a geocoin or TB in order to take one."

(2) His description of the location makes it sound like a poor place to put everyone's investment (travel bugs.)

I actually had a geocoin, and a travel bug disappear on separate occasions, both were sitting in a travel bug hotel, placed in a "convienent" but piss poor location. Both times, the hotel walked away with about a dozen travel bugs.

The girls will get over it, there are a million other TBs to find. :rolleyes:

August 8, 2007

I read the cache page and agree with Highpointer on their actions.

The cache placers on the other hand regarding their notes on the cache page leave a lot to be desired.

They did not set up a hotel with just one or two caches but 16. They put on a rule expecting a 1 for 1 replacement thus wanting a total of 16 bugs or coins to remain. They disabled the cache until they steal more bugs and coins and trap them in this cache. They use comments like “do the right thing and bring OUR bugs back” . They then stoop to really low levels and mention a little girl with diabetes as and excuse for their actions. They use words like Geocache police yet are making themselves TB police.

If you want to do the right thing then activate the cache bugless. Remove the trading rule from the cache page. Allow the geocaching community decide whether the cache is really a TB hotel. Recognise that all Geocachers are “Official Cache Police” and see what happens.

Finally take the poor girl with diabetes aside and apologise for your own actions in making her cry.

August 8, 2007

I read the cache page and agree with Highpointer on their actions.

The cache placers on the other hand regarding their notes on the cache page leave a lot to be desired.

They did not set up a hotel with just one or two caches but 16. They put on a rule expecting a 1 for 1 replacement thus wanting a total of 16 bugs or coins to remain. .......

If you look at the cache page in question, you will see that the cache owner started the TB hotel with 2 bugs.

July 24 by sidaway (180 found)

Dropped 2 TBs to start cache.

AZRoses dropped a bunch of TB's...

AZRoses (152 found)

Wow what a great hide had me walking all over the place. Thank you to the Misses for the help. TFTC SL Dropped a bunch of bugs and coins.

22k · August 8, 2007

I read the cache page and agree with Highpointer on their actions.

The cache placers on the other hand regarding their notes on the cache page leave a lot to be desired.

They did not set up a hotel with just one or two caches but 16. They put on a rule expecting a 1 for 1 replacement thus wanting a total of 16 bugs or coins to remain. .......

If you look at the cache page in question, you will see that the cache owner started the TB hotel with 2 bugs.

July 24 by sidaway (180 found)

Dropped 2 TBs to start cache.

AZRoses dropped a bunch of TB's...

AZRoses (152 found)

Wow what a great hide had me walking all over the place. Thank you to the Misses for the help. TFTC SL Dropped a bunch of bugs and coins.

True. I have to wonder if the comments by the owner is to harvest bug against their goal to stock the cache.

If not, I still recommend not adding too many bugs into one cache.

1.7k · August 8, 2007

Frankly if they would like to do something that might make these little girls happy they might want to consider a TB I ran across. A 9 year old boy attached a lamintaed card with his address and a request to a TB tag, he asked that anyone who found the TB send him a postcard from that location.

Try sending out a bunch of TB's, one for each girl, they'll probably enjoy it just as much as owning a cache.

21.9k · August 8, 2007

I am moving this thread from the Geocaching Topics forum to The Travel Bug forum.

August 8, 2007

Someone (who's more diplomatic than I) should explain to the cache owners why TB prisons are 'bad' and why taking 16 TBs is NOT 'wrong'.

The cache owners just don't understand how TBs work.

But, be diplomatic when explaining to them how they are in the wrong.

August 8, 2007

I read the cache page and agree with Highpointer on their actions.

The cache placers on the other hand regarding their notes on the cache page leave a lot to be desired.

They did not set up a hotel with just one or two caches but 16. They put on a rule expecting a 1 for 1 replacement thus wanting a total of 16 bugs or coins to remain. .......

If you look at the cache page in question, you will see that the cache owner started the TB hotel with 2 bugs.

July 24 by sidaway (180 found)

Dropped 2 TBs to start cache.

AZRoses dropped a bunch of TB's...

AZRoses (152 found)

Wow what a great hide had me walking all over the place. Thank you to the Misses for the help. TFTC SL Dropped a bunch of bugs and coins.

Yes I did look at that. AZRoses state they are also involved in setting up the cache as per note posted August 6

August 8, 2007

Have not read cache page but have read all the above comments.

Can now understand why some people would support the removal off all 16 tbs. My thoughts are

1 Maybe the cache should not have had 'rules' regarding take one leave one.

2 Maybe people should be encouraged not to drop too many tbs or geocoins at one time in a cache (any cache).

3 Maybe the cache in question should have taken all the tbs and spread them around.

Having said all that did he have to take every single one could he not have left one or two so the next person would be able to take/swap them. Or did he take them all because he has a thing against cache hotels in general.

Love the idea of sending a tb asking for postcards. How many people would actualy bother sending them?

6.4k · August 8, 2007

The cache in question is Five Girls Travel Bug Hotel GC14M0H. This @#$#*(&^ jerk takes all of the TB's out of the cache because he does not like the placement.

Hope everyone lets him know your feelings.

The cache in question is Five Girls Travel Bug Hotel GC14M0H

Everybody is making comments without going to the cache page and see what was written.

Yup, I read the cache page, AND all the nasty comments written there. That's not really the place for that type of thing; you better hope the reviewer doesn't archive and lock the cache because of it.

Sounds like Highpointer did a great thing by setting all those TBs free from prison before they got muggled and lost. Maybe you should consider what most of the 16 TB owners want; those TBs belong to them, not the cache hider.

August 8, 2007

Why was it disabled?

It seems they have disabled it until they can fill it up with more travel bugs. I guess in their hotel no one can check in, unless there are already guests in the hotel. :rolleyes:

4k · August 8, 2007

If this hasnt been said i already i noticed that this cache is new. All the more reason for the TB's to be removed. I would hate to see it muggled and all the TBs come up missing.

7.2k · August 8, 2007

I have to jump on the bandwagon and agree with the majority here. I see little in what Highpointer did as wrong.

1.7k · August 8, 2007

I read the part about 16 coins/bugs in one cache and winced. No matter how well the cache is hidden, that's too risky. You could put a cache in Fort KNOX, and it would be muggled sooner or later. Better Highpointer taking them to move on, then some anonymous muggle carrying off a lot of neat looking coins and travel bugs!

Also - the near accusations that he was taking them without the intention of moving them on to other caches - I thought /that/ was really out of line.

Just my $.02!

August 8, 2007

I know of Highpointer and I went to a TB (prison) hotel that had the rules of "take 1 leave 1" and I did not want to make ripples with the cache owner so I simply "discovered" them all and made a note in my log that it was a shame that I had no TBs to trade and had to leave without being able to take one on my travels to Mexico. Highpointer went to the same cache after I did and took most if not all of the TBs that were there. The cache was placed in a good area and decently hidden. He then emailed me and told me I should have taken all that I wanted and pointed me to a link discussing the "TB (prison) hotel subject that Jeremy discussed that caches should never have restrictions placed on the taking of TBs.

But I will say that he did quickly spread those TBs around to other caches. He appears to travel quit a bit and does move the TBs over quit a distance (that is what TBs are meant to do.) I may not agree with his comments on the cache page (yes I did read the cache page) but I will say this... If I ever had a travel bug stuck in a TB prison, I sure hope Highpointer is the one to rescue them!

22k · August 8, 2007

If you can assist the bug towards it goal, go for it. It doesn't matter if it's 2 or 10. Only only concern about 'stockpiling' is that you don't want to hold onto a bug longer than two weeks without moving it.

Move them bugs!

August 8, 2007

I am the "placer" of the cache and thought I would add a few comments.....it seems that there is some misunderstanding....

First of all, we are not upset that all of the TBs were moved....that is in fact the purpose of this hotel. I have to admit that when my wife and daughters went to check on it yesterday, they were a little surprised (and probably somewhat disheartened for the young girls, and we all know how young girls can easily be disappointed, that all of the TBs were gone). They weren't expecting someone to move them all, but that doesn't bother us. We are actually happy that they were moved and are glad to see them on their "journey". I understand all the remarks about the TBs needing to be moved and wholeheartedly agree with that. The girls were definitely looking forward to seeing where the TBs in our cache would wind up, so for those who think this was a "prison", that is definitely to the contrary. In fact, we plan to soon have our own bugs for the girls to watch travel the country. I would hope that "ours" get to travel quickly and over long distances to help with our enjoyment of the process.

However, we were definitely a little upset (shocked also) because the cacher left a rather pointed, somewhat demeaning (or at least we interpreted it that way) note in the cache that essentially said that the cache was unsafe for the bugs and that the cache should not exist. The note also stated to future cachers that the cache was unsafe and for them not to leave TBs in the cache. I am not going to go into more specifics or even post/copy his email comments on this forum, because I don't think that is appropriate and I think that would cause people to not want to have the lines of communication open for discussions. However, for a family that is new to caching and simply set the cache up for some INNOCENT FAMILY fun, I felt like we were being attacked or falsely accused of wrong intentions for even considering a TB hotel. In addition, someone (I don't know who and don't accuse the person named) stooped to the level of scratching out the word "hotel" on the log sheet that was placed which appeared to be maliciously done. I don't know who did it, so I am not pointing fingers, but to me that seemed a little excessive....don't you? The information that is noted that the cache is in a bad location that would be easy to be muggled is entirely not true. It is located near a park, but the park is barely being used now because it is still under construction. The cache is also at least 100 yards away from the nearest edge of the park in a wash, under a tree, and was originally buried very well. No kid in his right mind would venture into the area, and if they did, would not easily stumble across it. We also checked on the cache at least once a day and would definitely have moved it had we thought it was in danger of being muggled.

Just to clarify for those who think we placed rules or stipulations on the cache...the intention of the note that said "if you take a TB, please place a TB" wasn't placed with any other intention (assumed or implied) other than we simply wanted to have more TBs pass through the cache for the girls to see and wanted to make sure that there were still bugs in there that would tempt people to come the cache (its location is way off the beaten path and not located in a highly cached area). You see, we don't only try to find caches and TBs/geocoins just for the sake of saying we have another number added to our total (as appears some people may do), but instead investigate each TBs site to see its intended destination and the thought put into it by the owner. It was meant to increase the interest level and the fun for the family. Maybe we worded that incorrectly or maybe it shouldn't have been posted at all....I don't know, but the purpose wasn't to imprison TBs so that they would be kept from traveling. That's just ridiculous.

So, I ask you....if you had placed a cache and someone had given you the impression that they thought your cache sucked and shouldn't be in existence, especially when the idea partially came from your kids, wouldn't you be a little disappointed?

This whole ordeal has certainly dampened our feelings on this clean, family fun :rolleyes:

But, we are going to press on...the cache will be set back up and will still be a place for TB exchange, no matter what anyone thinks of it, because we still think that this one of the ways that we can make this more enjoyable for the family. I will definitely remove the take one/leave stipulation because I don't want to be accused of inhibiting bug movement or imprisoning them. BTW, it was disabled because of 2 reasons: 1) the log book was damaged because of the slashes through its name and we needed time to replace it and 2) with no TBs in it at all, we didn't think anyone would try to find it. Additionally, we may decide to place it in a different location.

Happy caching....we intend to

August 8, 2007

A kinda similar situation that got the cache archived by the reviewers.Travel Bug Barracks

1.7k · August 8, 2007

I am the "placer" of the cache and thought I would add a few comments.....it seems that there is some misunderstanding....

First of all, we are not upset that all of the TBs were moved....that is in fact the purpose of this hotel. I have to admit that when my wife and daughters went to check on it yesterday, they were a little surprised (and probably somewhat disheartened for the young girls, and we all know how young girls can easily be disappointed, that all of the TBs were gone). They weren't expecting someone to move them all, but that doesn't bother us. We are actually happy that they were moved and are glad to see them on their "journey". I understand all the remarks about the TBs needing to be moved and wholeheartedly agree with that. The girls were definitely looking forward to seeing where the TBs in our cache would wind up, so for those who think this was a "prison", that is definitely to the contrary. In fact, we plan to soon have our own bugs for the girls to watch travel the country. I would hope that "ours" get to travel quickly and over long distances to help with our enjoyment of the process.

However, we were definitely a little upset (shocked also) because the cacher left a rather pointed, somewhat demeaning (or at least we interpreted it that way) note in the cache that essentially said that the cache was unsafe for the bugs and that the cache should not exist. The note also stated to future cachers that the cache was unsafe and for them not to leave TBs in the cache. I am not going to go into more specifics or even post/copy his email comments on this forum, because I don't think that is appropriate and I think that would cause people to not want to have the lines of communication open for discussions. However, for a family that is new to caching and simply set the cache up for some INNOCENT FAMILY fun, I felt like we were being attacked or falsely accused of wrong intentions for even considering a TB hotel. In addition, someone (I don't know who and don't accuse the person named) stooped to the level of scratching out the word "hotel" on the log sheet that was placed which appeared to be maliciously done. I don't know who did it, so I am not pointing fingers, but to me that seemed a little excessive....don't you? The information that is noted that the cache is in a bad location that would be easy to be muggled is entirely not true. It is located near a park, but the park is barely being used now because it is still under construction. The cache is also at least 100 yards away from the nearest edge of the park in a wash, under a tree, and was originally buried very well. No kid in his right mind would venture into the area, and if they did, would not easily stumble across it. We also checked on the cache at least once a day and would definitely have moved it had we thought it was in danger of being muggled.

Just to clarify for those who think we placed rules or stipulations on the cache...the intention of the note that said "if you take a TB, please place a TB" wasn't placed with any other intention (assumed or implied) other than we simply wanted to have more TBs pass through the cache for the girls to see and wanted to make sure that there were still bugs in there that would tempt people to come the cache (its location is way off the beaten path and not located in a highly cached area). You see, we don't only try to find caches and TBs/geocoins just for the sake of saying we have another number added to our total (as appears some people may do), but instead investigate each TBs site to see its intended destination and the thought put into it by the owner. It was meant to increase the interest level and the fun for the family. Maybe we worded that incorrectly or maybe it shouldn't have been posted at all....I don't know, but the purpose wasn't to imprison TBs so that they would be kept from traveling. That's just ridiculous.

So, I ask you....if you had placed a cache and someone had given you the impression that they thought your cache sucked and shouldn't be in existence, especially when the idea partially came from your kids, wouldn't you be a little disappointed?

This whole ordeal has certainly dampened our feelings on this clean, family fun

But, we are going to press on...the cache will be set back up and will still be a place for TB exchange, no matter what anyone thinks of it, because we still think that this one of the ways that we can make this more enjoyable for the family. I will definitely remove the take one/leave stipulation because I don't want to be accused of inhibiting bug movement or imprisoning them. BTW, it was disabled because of 2 reasons: 1) the log book was damaged because of the slashes through its name and we needed time to replace it and 2) with no TBs in it at all, we didn't think anyone would try to find it. Additionally, we may decide to place it in a different location.

Happy caching....we intend to

Thank you for the polite clarification - it is always good to get both sides of the story. :lol: I would certainly re-enable the cache and keep on geocaching, it is a great family activity. I'd just be careful not to overstock the cache with too many travelbugs, for the reasons I listed above. I've had a cache or two muggled that I would have sworn no non-geocacher could ever in their right mind want to go to that spot... and yet they did.

Don't let this put you or your family off geocaching. There's always bumps in the road, but you drive on anyway!

22k · August 8, 2007

Happy caching....we intend to

I agree and thank you for posting. There is definitely a bit of tension on both sides.

It helps to be able to discuss this in an open forum.

14.3k · August 8, 2007

Thank you for the polite clarification - it is always good to get both sides of the story. I would certainly re-enable the cache and keep on geocaching, it is a great family activity. I'd just be careful not to overstock the cache with too many travelbugs, for the reasons I listed above. I've had a cache or two muggled that I would have sworn no non-geocacher could ever in their right mind want to go to that spot... and yet they did.

Don't let this put you or your family off geocaching. There's always bumps in the road, but you drive on anyway!

I agree. You might also want to make it a member's only cache to make it a little safer as well.

August 8, 2007

Perhaps I could chime in here...seeing how I'm directly involved...

So, the family and I are new to caching. I've been trying to learn the in's and out's and and whatnot. I now see and understand the point about why TB hotels are up for debate - really, I do. I understand why the "1 for 1 rule" might not have been appropriate and why keeping so many in one place could cause a problem. Really, I do. So please give me a break and recognize that this has been a learning experience.

Now, allow me to elaborate on why we were so stinking upset. You all know as well as I do that Highpointer could have gotten in touch with us (I'm referring to the "official" owner and I) to convey his concerns. But he didn't. Do you know what he did? He left a nasty note in our log book - even asking other cachers not to leave TB's or coins in our cache. Part of the title of our cache had it's name crossed out...we're assuming he was responsible for that too. Then he took ALL of the bugs. Hey, we want to see these bugs move along just as much as everyone else...we were just hoping they could pass through our cache, that's all. He didn't post anything about it or let us know what had happened and one of our little girls went to check on it only to find it empty. Nice.

So maybe we shouldn't have called them "our" bugs, but we just wanted them to feel at home! We know they aren't OURS, but they're part of the geocaching community and, up until now, we had a feeling of unity in our little part of the world.

I see and hear all of your points. I guess I just wish that he would have given us a little more consideration. It seems like he doesn't respect us, as fellow geocachers, - the game - or the cache itself. It's been a learning experience and we value the feedback from well experienced cachers like Highpointer. We just don't understand why it was so mean spirited on his behalf.

1.5k · August 8, 2007

Just ignore the hard nosed old poots and enjoy the wonderful hobby with your girls. I would make one small suggestion and that is gather up a little bag of small trade items to include in the cache until you can re-stock it with more TBs, this way it does not have to be disabled and people can still find it

August 8, 2007

Perhaps I could chime in here...seeing how I'm directly involved...

So, the family and I are new to caching. I've been trying to learn the in's and out's and and whatnot. I now see and understand the point about why TB hotels are up for debate - really, I do. I understand why the "1 for 1 rule" might not have been appropriate and why keeping so many in one place could cause a problem. Really, I do. So please give me a break and recognize that this has been a learning experience.

Now, allow me to elaborate on why we were so stinking upset. You all know as well as I do that Highpointer could have gotten in touch with us (I'm referring to the "official" owner and I) to convey his concerns. But he didn't. Do you know what he did? He left a nasty note in our log book - even asking other cachers not to leave TB's or coins in our cache. Part of the title of our cache had it's name crossed out...we're assuming he was responsible for that too. Then he took ALL of the bugs. Hey, we want to see these bugs move along just as much as everyone else...we were just hoping they could pass through our cache, that's all. He didn't post anything about it or let us know what had happened and one of our little girls went to check on it only to find it empty. Nice.

So maybe we shouldn't have called them "our" bugs, but we just wanted them to feel at home! We know they aren't OURS, but they're part of the geocaching community and, up until now, we had a feeling of unity in our little part of the world.

I see and hear all of your points. I guess I just wish that he would have given us a little more consideration. It seems like he doesn't respect us, as fellow geocachers, - the game - or the cache itself. It's been a learning experience and we value the feedback from well experienced cachers like Highpointer. We just don't understand why it was so mean spirited on his behalf.

August 8, 2007

YA Know, Life goes on. I was at the site I know what is right and wrong with his actions, lets let it be, we know we are in the safe hands of the GEO God. By the way he also sent me an E-Mail which I wont share, but he still dosen't under stand what he did. Just a little common sense and courtesy.

TATA for now

August 8, 2007

This whole ordeal has certainly dampened our feelings on this clean, family fun

Viewing this from the outside looking in I would guess that you got caught up in what for some people is a long and ongoing problem. I have seen several topics in the forums on the Travel Bug Hotel / Prison idea. Some people call them prisons because bugs can be trapped there for longer periods of time if the cache finders don't have bugs to trade. You might be unhappy to watch 6 or 10 people find a cache with your bug in it, only to have all of them write a log saying how they would have loved to move the bugs but didn't have one to trade. It seems to be against the rules and good form, to tell a cacher they shouldn't move a bug unless they leave a bug. The Bug owner wants to see the bug move and might not think the Hotel should be allowed to hold on to the bugs as a way to attract visitors. Not everyone wants to, or is not able to express negative feelings in a way that doesn't ruffle feathers. Spend some time here in the forums and you might discover other things to avoid, to help keep caching wonderful family fun. :lol:

August 8, 2007

Thanks for the responses from both sidaway and AZRoses.

The story you tell here is different from the story on the cache page.

I would now suggest the disabling comment be changed to the reasons given in the forum ie disabled due to a need for maintenance.

Secondly for AZRoses to change the note to say you thought the way Highpointer handled the situation was wrong where you and sidaway would have both been amenable to a reasoned request. I would also add your thoughts on diabetes and TB's to the cache description when you get rid of the trading rule. That will get you and your daughter more responses from the gecaching community.

Pretty much all as you say in the forum but without the emotion.

Once all that has happened the alleged actions of Highpointer and whether all those actions were called for can be dealt with an a more reasoned light.

Good Luck . Best Wishes

1.7k · August 8, 2007

2) with no TBs in it at all, we didn't think anyone would try to find it.

It looks like you've learned alot from this thread. People will come to find your cache if there are no travel bugs in it. Just make sure to have t stocked with items people can trade for. You could involve your children by having them pick out the items from the store and restocking it when they feel it is needed. Please remember that the quality of the items in the cache can degrade over time as trading occurs.

August 8, 2007

Did anyone else notice that AZRoses grabbed 7 or 8 from TB Pipeline

to stock their cache?

August 8, 2007

Did anyone else notice that AZRoses grabbed 7 or 8 from TB Pipeline

to stock their cache?

I also left a Couple of TB's in their place. Signed the log and logged it as soon as I got home from work.

1.7k · August 8, 2007

Did anyone else notice that AZRoses grabbed 7 or 8 from TB Pipeline

to stock their cache?

That's right! And when AZRoses was a baby he once broke my toy truck! :laughing:

I think is edging toward dead horse territory - the issue seems to have been settled and people learned things from it. Why drag up more stuff against someone who wasn't even the OP?

22k · August 8, 2007

The OP can request the thread be closed. They just need to click the Report! button and make the request.

8k · August 8, 2007

So what have we learned? We have learned that a family new to geocaching has seen other travel bug hotels and thought it would be nice to create one of their own. Perhaps they even copied "rules" for trading bugs from another cache they had seen. They likely hadn't looked in the forum or discussed the idea with other geocachers who could've have advised them on the issues to look out for. We have learned that a somewhat experienced geocacher came across the cache. He made a determination that in his opinion the cache was in an area where it would likely be muggled. He may have also felt that the "rules" on the cache made it a travel bug prison and felt the bugs in it should be "liberated" So he emptied out the bugs in the cache and left a somewhat blunt criticism of the cache in his log.

Newbies make mistakes. Even experienced geocachers may make mistakes. Geocachers seeing a poorly place cache or cache which might indicate a misunderstanding of travel bug etiquette, should help out the newbies with a private email and not start by criticizing them in the log. I believe the placers of this cache may have a better understanding of the issues and consider them in placing their next cache.

I am sure to get flamed for this, but travel bug owners should stop feeling that once they have released a travel bug they have any control over it. You put your travel bug in a cache and hope it gets moved according to the stated goals. But caches get muggled, bugs get taken by newbies who don't know how to move them, bugs get stuck in remote caches that seldom get visited, and bugs may be put in a travel bug hotel where the owner asks people not to take all bugs. Instead of accepting the risks of having a travel bug in the wild, travel bug owners have invented "rules" for travel bug and promulgated them in the forum as if they are official rules. So some cachers have taken it on themselves to enforce these "rules" by freeing travel bugs from hotels and caches which they think may be prone to be muggled. To me this game is about geocaching and I'm not going let the travel bug crowd ruin my enjoyment by placing rules that I haven't agreed to. I'm all for educating newbies that travel bugs have goals, they want to move according to goals, and that most travel bug owners would prefer to see their bugs move rather than sit in a cache. But I don't have much sympathy for travel bug cops.

Bad mannered Cacher

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