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Why I enjoy lamp post hides


KBI
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The Idea That Shows Promise / A way to end a scourge thread, along with my initial post to the Worst Cache Containers thread, got me thinking more than ever about exactly why it is I sometimes enjoy simple lamp post hides – and other "lame" caches – so much.

 

This is my post from the Worst Cache Containers thread. Note the portion in bold:

 

One of the caches that has impressed me the least was the one I once found:
  • In a Wal-Mart parking lot
  • Under a lamp post skirt
  • With a magnetic hide-a-key as the container
  • And using the Wal-Mart receipt for the purchase of said hide-a-key as the log sheet .

That's right -- the hider walked into the store, bought a hide-a-key box, walked out to the parking lot, got as far as the nearest lamp post, unwrapped the box from its packaging (this step represented the most effort involved), placed the receipt in the box, placed the box under a lamp post skirt, marked the coords, and drove home to submit his hide.

 

The interesting thing is that dozens and dozens of cachers have logged it, many with very complimentary logs, earnestly describing their fun.

 

I logged it. :unsure:I actually enjoyed it, in a twisted sort of way. Kind of the same way some people love to watch bad sci-fi movies from the 50s, the ones with the cheap and terrible special effects.

 

I wasn't impressed, but you do have to marvel at the efficiency of the whole concept.

 

Kitsch.

 

THAT’s the word I was looking for when I wrote that post! I just couldn’t think of it at the time.

 

"Kitsch" precisely describes not only the predictable and less-than-clever caches that I nevertheless enjoy finding, but also one of the main reasons I nevertheless enjoy finding them.

 

It is an honest appreciation for the very lack of creativity those hides represent, but it is neither an eye-rolling sense of self-superiority nor a compassionate sympathy; it is somewhere in the middle ... and then half a bubble off in another direction.

 

It is my twisted admiration for laziness and tastelessness, or as Jeff Foxworthy defines the word Redneck: A glorious lack of sophistication.

 

Lamp post caches, by their very nature, are gloriously unsophisticated. The first one I ever found was clever. The fifth one was lame. The twentieth one was kitschy.

 

From the Wikipedia definition: "It is often said that kitsch relies on merely repeating convention and formula, lacking the sense of creativity and originality displayed in genuine art."

 

In the regular world, kitsch is:

- Garden gnomes

- Twenty-foot-tall residential mailboxes labeled "AIR MAIL"

- Paintings of dogs playing poker

- Those fake baseball-in-cracked-window stickers on cars

 

In the Geocaching world, kitsch is:

- A half square foot of parallel sticks (not) covering a brand new two-square-foot cache container in the woods

- A fake bird house cache that looks nothing at all like a real bird house

- Ironically bad grammar in a cache description, such as "The puzzle simple."

- Micro caches under lamp post skirts.

 

These things represent the amateur flavor, the democratic nature – the very grassrootness – of our hobby. They are pitiful and beautiful at the same time.

 

I like simple lamp post caches not because they are bad, but because when they are near other simple lamp post caches they are comically bad. I like tacky caches simply because they are tacky. (Plus they give me an excuse to play with my Garmin, and to log a smiley.)

 

If my appreciation for lamp post caches – my ability to enjoy pretty much any cache out there, no matter how unsophisticated – makes me abnormal, then I don’t want to be normal. If I were normal I apparently wouldn’t enjoy this hobby nearly as much.

 

 

Is it just me? :blink:

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The Idea That Shows Promise / A way to end a scourge thread, along with my initial post to the Worst Cache Containers thread, got me thinking more than ever about exactly why it is I sometimes enjoy simple lamp post hides – and other "lame" caches – so much.

 

This is my post from the Worst Cache Containers thread. Note the portion in bold:

 

One of the caches that has impressed me the least was the one I once found:
  • In a Wal-Mart parking lot
  • Under a lamp post skirt
  • With a magnetic hide-a-key as the container
  • And using the Wal-Mart receipt for the purchase of said hide-a-key as the log sheet .

That's right -- the hider walked into the store, bought a hide-a-key box, walked out to the parking lot, got as far as the nearest lamp post, unwrapped the box from its packaging (this step represented the most effort involved), placed the receipt in the box, placed the box under a lamp post skirt, marked the coords, and drove home to submit his hide.

 

The interesting thing is that dozens and dozens of cachers have logged it, many with very complimentary logs, earnestly describing their fun.

 

I logged it. :unsure:I actually enjoyed it, in a twisted sort of way. Kind of the same way some people love to watch bad sci-fi movies from the 50s, the ones with the cheap and terrible special effects.

 

I wasn't impressed, but you do have to marvel at the efficiency of the whole concept.

 

Kitsch.

 

THAT’s the word I was looking for when I wrote that post! I just couldn’t think of it at the time.

 

"Kitsch" precisely describes not only the predictable and less-than-clever caches that I nevertheless enjoy finding, but also one of the main reasons I nevertheless enjoy finding them.

 

It is an honest appreciation for the very lack of creativity those hides represent, but it is neither an eye-rolling sense of self-superiority nor a compassionate sympathy; it is somewhere in the middle ... and then half a bubble off in another direction.

 

It is my twisted admiration for laziness and tastelessness, or as Jeff Foxworthy defines the word Redneck: A glorious lack of sophistication.

 

Lamp post caches, by their very nature, are gloriously unsophisticated. The first one I ever found was clever. The fifth one was lame. The twentieth one was kitschy.

 

From the Wikipedia definition: "It is often said that kitsch relies on merely repeating convention and formula, lacking the sense of creativity and originality displayed in genuine art."

 

In the regular world, kitsch is:

- Garden gnomes

- Twenty-foot-tall residential mailboxes labeled "AIR MAIL"

- Paintings of dogs playing poker

- Those fake baseball-in-cracked-window stickers on cars

 

In the Geocaching world, kitsch is:

- A half square foot of parallel sticks (not) covering a brand new two-square-foot cache container in the woods

- A fake bird house cache that looks nothing at all like a real bird house

- Ironically bad grammar in a cache description, such as "The puzzle simple."

- Micro caches under lamp post skirts.

 

These things represent the amateur flavor, the democratic nature – the very grassrootness – of our hobby. They are pitiful and beautiful at the same time.

 

I like simple lamp post caches not because they are bad, but because when they are near other simple lamp post caches they are comically bad. I like tacky caches simply because they are tacky. (Plus they give me an excuse to play with my Garmin, and to log a smiley.)

 

If my appreciation for lamp post caches – my ability to enjoy pretty much any cache out there, no matter how unsophisticated – makes me abnormal, then I don’t want to be normal. If I were normal I apparently wouldn’t enjoy this hobby nearly as much.

 

 

Is it just me? :blink:

 

I feel this post shows honesty and pushes me a bit closer to appreciation of this hide type.

 

It seems in many of the LPC threads, one side says they hate them, and the others spend their time defending rights, and freedom of speech, etc. FINALLY someone just explains why they like them in an intelligent way.

 

Thanks for the post.

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I guess you can look at it a couple ways. One they are quick, easy and a good way to rack up numbers if that's what you are going for. If you want difficult caches then you can always filter them out by changing the difficulty levels in your PQ's. On the other side if things if the one hiding the cache did it right you never are quite sure what you are reaching your hand into when you reach up into a lamp post so there's still that surprise factor. Ever reach up to grab a big thick spider web? Or a dead mouse? Granted most of them are magnetic key holder right under the cover of the lamp post. However, I've seen a couple where you've had to twist your hand to reach up into the base of the post. Never know what you'll grab onto. Hopefully not a live wire.

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We might have 2 LPCs in my entire state and I only run across them when I travel. When I randomly made a comment about them in this forum, you were the first geocacher I had ever come across that defended the placement of them. I will admit to thinking you were more than a little whacked when you did so in such an aggressive fashion.

 

However, as I started to spend more time in the forum and read what the other LPC supporters (they may be few in numbers but they are equally as strong in their dedication), I will admit to feeling differently about them today. Thanks to your very consistent efforts, I believe now that there's a niche support for them out there and they are in fact enjoyed by some. That's a long journey from when I first discovered them or decided I wanted to discuss them.

 

In the regular world, kitsch is:

- Garden gnomes

- Twenty-foot-tall residential mailboxes labeled "AIR MAIL"

- Paintings of dogs playing poker

- Those fake baseball-in-cracked-window stickers on cars

 

Your post also summed up why I don't think I will ever support them too. Kitsch. I never cared for it. I try to steer as far away from it in my everyday life and especially in my recreation.

Edited by Team GeoBlast
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We might have 2 LPCs in my entire state and I only run across them when I travel. Way back when I made a random comment about them in this forum, you were the first geocacher I had ever come across that defended the placement of them. I will admit to thinking you were more than a little whacked when you did so in such an aggressive fashion.

 

However, as I started to spend more time in the forum and read what the other LPC supporters (they may be few in numbers but they are equally as strong in their dedication), I will admit to feeling differently about them today. Thanks to your very consistent efforts, I began to look at thing differently and I believe now that there's a niche support for them out there and they are in fact enjoyed by some. That a long journey from when I first discovered them or decided I wanted to discuss them.

 

In the regular world, kitsch is:

- Garden gnomes

- Twenty-foot-tall residential mailboxes labeled "AIR MAIL"

- Paintings of dogs playing poker

- Those fake baseball-in-cracked-window stickers on cars

 

Your post also summed up why I don't think I will ever support them too. Kitsch. I never cared for it. I try to steer as far away from it in my everyday life and especially in my recreation.

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While I can understand the 'ktisch' part of your post, my problem with LPCs is that they seem to always just take you to a parking lot. I don't know why I want to look at a lamppost in a parking lot. I will do them when on vacation if its the only way I can mark on the map that I was there. Otherwise, I tend to avoid them. Each to his own I guess. :D

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While I can understand the 'ktisch' part of your post, my problem with LPCs is that they seem to always just take you to a parking lot. I don't know why I want to look at a lamppost in a parking lot. I will do them when on vacation if its the only way I can mark on the map that I was there. Otherwise, I tend to avoid them. Each to his own I guess. :D

 

One of the things that works for me in the OP is comparison to the velvet painting of the dogs playing poker. You expect to see it in a frat house or featured in a bachelor's first attempt as interior design (Walmart Parking Lot) and it's always as tacky as the first time you saw it. But then you are walk into a 5 bedroom home (great scenic location) and in the game room, you see one of those on the wall. You feel differently about it because it was not expected and in an unusual surrounding.

Edited by Team GeoBlast
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When I randomly made a comment about them in this forum, you were the first geocacher I had ever come across that defended the placement of them. I will admit to thinking you were more than a little whacked when you did so in such an aggressive fashion.

And now you know you were right! :D

 

Seriously, with the large number of those things out there you had to know there was at least one reason for their existence. I am firmly convinced there are several reasons, all of which are perfectly acceptable, legit and valid. Many such reasons have been recently listed in the "Idea That Shows Promise" thread.

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While I can understand the 'ktisch' part of your post, my problem with LPCs is that they seem to always just take you to a parking lot. I don't know why I want to look at a lamppost in a parking lot. I will do them when on vacation if its the only way I can mark on the map that I was there. Otherwise, I tend to avoid them.

Your post not only clarifies exactly why those hides qualify as kitsch – indeed, why a parking lot? – but it accurately describes my caching preferences as well.

 

I don’t seek out bad caches, but I do prefer a bad cache to no cache. I can find a way to enjoy pretty much any geocache. They get me off of my couch or out of my hotel room, and they allow me an excuse to play with my GPS receiver.

 

As I said:

 

I like tacky caches simply because they are tacky. (Plus they give me an excuse to play with my Garmin, and to log a smiley.)

 

 

Each to his own I guess. :D

Exactly. :D

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While I can understand the 'ktisch' part of your post, my problem with LPCs is that they seem to always just take you to a parking lot. I don't know why I want to look at a lamppost in a parking lot. I will do them when on vacation if its the only way I can mark on the map that I was there. Otherwise, I tend to avoid them. Each to his own I guess. :D

This post captures one of the principal reason why they is so much objection to LPCs. If you were to ask, a substantial number of people would say that they enjoy geocaching because it brings then to interesting places they might not have know about. For these people an LPC in the Wal*Mart parking lot is not their idea of a what a cache should be. They might enjoy an LPC that is at a scenic view or a an historic location, but many LPCs tend to be in mundane areas. The problem that I have, is that this is a narrow interpretation of why people like to geocache. Some people simple like to find the hidden box and don't care the least where the hunt took you. Other may enjoy "kitsch". Yes, some people are even into numbers, looking to find the most caches as they can in a day's outing. In any case, there are plenty of reasons for enjoying LPCs and many people do enjoy them. But they're not for everybody.

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I guess you can look at it a couple ways. One they are quick, easy and a good way to rack up numbers if that's what you are going for. If you want difficult caches then you can always filter them out by changing the difficulty levels in your PQ's. On the other side if things if the one hiding the cache did it right you never are quite sure what you are reaching your hand into when you reach up into a lamp post so there's still that surprise factor. Ever reach up to grab a big thick spider web? Or a dead mouse? Granted most of them are magnetic key holder right under the cover of the lamp post. However, I've seen a couple where you've had to twist your hand to reach up into the base of the post. Never know what you'll grab onto. Hopefully not a live wire.

 

One word. Mirror.

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More on the word kitsch from the wikipedia entry (bolding mine):

 

History

 

Though its precise etymology is uncertain, it is widely held that the word originated in the Munich art markets of the 1860s and ’70s, used to describe cheap, hotly marketable pictures or sketches (the English term mispronounced by Germans, or elided with the German dialect verb kitschen that originally meant “to scrape up mud from the street” or "to smear"). Kitsch appealed to the
crass tastes
of the newly moneyed Munich bourgeoisie who, like most nouveau riche, thought they could achieve the status they envied in the traditional class of cultural elites by aping,
however clumsily
, the most apparent features of their cultural habits.

 

The word eventually came to mean
“a slapping together”
(of a work of art). Kitsch became defined as an
aesthetically impoverished object of shoddy production
, meant more to identify the consumer with a newly acquired class status than to invoke a genuine aesthetic response. Kitsch was
considered aesthetically impoverished and morally dubious, and to have sacrificed aesthetic life to a pantomime of aesthetic life
, usually, but not always, in the interest of signaling one’s class status.

Sound familiar? Doesn't this echo the more common arguments against the existence of certain less-than-creative types of geocaches?

 

The word kitsch, then, was invented by highbrow art connoisseurs (some might call them “snobs”) about 150 years ago as a way to differentiate between art that was worthy of their attention vs. art that was less than worthy.

 

For kitsch to exist, therefore, there must first be snobs.

 

Such snobbery almost always elicits an anti-snob response in me. For example: When I first discovered, several years ago, that I enjoyed watching NASCAR races I noticed a very talented, sportsmanlike and well-spoken driver who was pure fun to watch: Jeff Gordon. When I learned that the more 'traditional' fans, the ones with the more 'proper,' 'acceptable' or 'established' appreciation of the sport, HATED Jeff Gordon, and especially when I learned WHY they hated him (he was dominating and his popularity was growing rapidly, but he wasn't a good-ol'-boy), I knew I had not only identified the snobs, but I also knew who my favorite driver would be. I’ve been a huge Jeff Gordon fan ever since – not as a means of intentionally annoying the Dale Earnhardt types, but simply in spite of them. Being able to go against popular opinion has a way of clarifying – and even reinforcing – one’s own preferences. Gordon is fun to watch, and when the rednecks throw beer cans at his car it makes it all the more enjoyable for me.

 

I have always enjoyed finding and logging pretty much any kind of geocache. The more clever/interesting/educational/entertaining the better, of course, but none of that has ever been a requirement for me to be able to get fun out of this hobby. Once I learned there was a class of cachers who looked down their nose at the “lesser” hides, it only served to shore up my own opinion – and emboldened me to defend it.

 

I sometimes enjoy the hides that most folks would call lame – not as a means of intentionally annoying the Geo-Highbrow-Elite types, but simply in spite of them.

 

Being able to go against popular opinion has a way of clarifying – and even reinforcing – one’s own preferences.

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I guess you can look at it a couple ways. One they are quick, easy and a good way to rack up numbers if that's what you are going for. If you want difficult caches then you can always filter them out by changing the difficulty levels in your PQ's. On the other side if things if the one hiding the cache did it right you never are quite sure what you are reaching your hand into when you reach up into a lamp post so there's still that surprise factor. Ever reach up to grab a big thick spider web? Or a dead mouse? Granted most of them are magnetic key holder right under the cover of the lamp post. However, I've seen a couple where you've had to twist your hand to reach up into the base of the post. Never know what you'll grab onto. Hopefully not a live wire.

 

One word. Mirror.

 

Digtial camera works too if it will fit.

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Seriously, with the large number of those things out there you had to know there was at least one reason for their existence. I am firmly convinced there are several reasons, all of which are perfectly acceptable, legit and valid. Many such reasons have been recently listed in the "Idea That Shows Promise" thread.

 

My experience is different than most cachers in that I don't run into LPC hides or hiders in my local caching circles. It's only when I travel and usually due to poor filtering technique on my part that I end up doing them. What opened my eyes to just how many there are out there was reading this forum and it was only then that I began to really ponder in depth the good, bad, and the evil of them. There's definitely a reason they are there and I'm understanding more about it as I continue to read. I believe your recreation is one of the few things in your life that you have 100% control over and how you choose to spend it should not be scrutinized by anyone, unless others are being harmed by it.

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Kitsch.

Great post! Insightful... intelligent... focused on the positive... And I learned a new word! :D

Dude, what have you done with KBI? :D

 

I've never learned to appreciate "Kitsch", and I can't quite fathom why anyone would, but to each his/her own, I reckon. I prefer to marvel at those folks who go the extra mile, introducing creative elements into every facet of their hides. Kitsch, as applied to geocaching, seems representative of inherent laziness, which I am unwilling to embrace.

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Kitsch.

Great post! Insightful... intelligent... focused on the positive... And I learned a new word! :D

Dude, what have you done with KBI? :laughing:

Thanks, Riff! So did I -- I wasn't sure about it myself; I had to look it up. :laughing:

Dude, what have you done with the old, cranky Clan Riffster? :D

 

I've never learned to appreciate "Kitsch", and I can't quite fathom why anyone would, but to each his/her own, I reckon .

:laughing:

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I guess you can look at it a couple ways. One they are quick, easy and a good way to rack up numbers if that's what you are going for. If you want difficult caches then you can always filter them out by changing the difficulty levels in your PQ's. On the other side if things if the one hiding the cache did it right you never are quite sure what you are reaching your hand into when you reach up into a lamp post so there's still that surprise factor. Ever reach up to grab a big thick spider web? Or a dead mouse? Granted most of them are magnetic key holder right under the cover of the lamp post. However, I've seen a couple where you've had to twist your hand to reach up into the base of the post. Never know what you'll grab onto. Hopefully not a live wire.

 

Exactly why I will stop looking for a lamppost hide if I have to reach too far, EWWWW (or "shocking!" :D). I did make one exception, there was a lamppost hide at a bowling alley in PA near a family "vacation home" we go to semi-often, and it had a lot of DNF's just before we were going there (we had found it on a previous trip) and we were curious and what happened is the last finder hid it way too far up the lamppost thinking he/she would "hide it better". Not only is it an old, icky, rusty lampost, but a person with short-ish arms will be S-O-O-L. The hider was planning to go check on it in a day or two and was happily and thankfully surprised at the out-of-state "maintenance".

 

Actually, when I do go after one of these, it's either just for a quick numbers add-on (if convenient to somewhere we're going anyway), or if we're out-of-town and it's going to be our only chance time-wise to claim a find where we are. I guess they have a purpose then.......

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For kitsch to exist, therefore, there must first be snobs.

Okay. "Kitsch" is non-quality, therefore quality is snobbish?

 

Kind of a leap.

Wow ... is it really already time again for another reminder? Where does the time go?

 

Anything you'd like to say to me before we address your point, CR?

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Is it just me? unsure.gif

 

I understand what you are saying. It's like when I turn on the TV and there is a really bad movie on starring Jan Michael Vincent, I get wrapped up in it and can't bring myself to turn it off.

 

Lame caches are like that in a way. But does there have to be so darn many of them?

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Is it just me? unsure.gif

I understand what you are saying. It's like when I turn on the TV and there is a really bad movie on starring Jan Michael Vincent, I get wrapped up in it and can't bring myself to turn it off.

Or Walker, Texas Ranger. Or Saved By The Bell. :D

 

 

Lame caches are like that in a way. But does there have to be so darn many of them?

I guess the numbers-builders like to keep each other happy. Personally, I'm glad there's usually something within walking distance no matter what errands I'm running around town, or which hotel my company plops me down into.

 

BTW, does this mean you're talking to me again? I hope so. I thought you weren't interested in the points I raised the last time we discussed this. I wrote this admittedly long, yet heartfelt rebuttal, but you ignored it. Said there was nothing worth responding to. :D

 

I always respect your opinions, Brian, and, if you're willing, I'm still very interested to hear what you have to say about the things I had to say about the things you had to say about these things ...

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I guess you can look at it a couple ways. One they are quick, easy and a good way to rack up numbers if that's what you are going for. If you want difficult caches then you can always filter them out by changing the difficulty levels in your PQ's. On the other side if things if the one hiding the cache did it right you never are quite sure what you are reaching your hand into when you reach up into a lamp post so there's still that surprise factor. Ever reach up to grab a big thick spider web? Or a dead mouse? Granted most of them are magnetic key holder right under the cover of the lamp post. However, I've seen a couple where you've had to twist your hand to reach up into the base of the post. Never know what you'll grab onto. Hopefully not a live wire.

 

One word. Mirror.

 

I know a live wire is a little different than putting you hand in a hole in the rocks or a tree and risk getting bit. But, we all do it with out thinking. I will at times wear leather gloves that offer some protection but a mirror won't always fit into tight quarters. So we all run the risk.

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For kitsch to exist, therefore, there must first be snobs.

Okay. "Kitsch" is non-quality, therefore quality is snobbish?

 

Kind of a leap.

Wow ... is it really already time again for another reminder? Where does the time go?

 

Anything you'd like to say to me before we address your point, CR?

 

I think the OP was a lot more persuasive than this post. You've got a good point- no need to dilute it by bringing burned out disagreements that were boring the first time.

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For kitsch to exist, therefore, there must first be snobs.
Okay. "Kitsch" is non-quality, therefore quality is snobbish?

 

Kind of a leap.

Wow ... is it really already time again for another reminder? Where does the time go?

 

Anything you'd like to say to me before we address your point, CR?

I think the OP was a lot more persuasive than this post. You've got a good point- no need to dilute it by bringing burned out disagreements that were boring the first time.

Yeah, I thought he was going pretty good until the snob thing. The Jeff Gordon thing didn't work for me either and was actually telling me that the OP likes to be contrary just for the sake of being contrary--almost to the point that he can't think for himself. Not that I believe that.

 

I was going right along with the OP's premise for a while and I was more equating the issue with fast food; quick, filling, loads of fat, less than optimal nutritional value. Folks have got to eat and if you're in a hurry and don't have a lot of money, there's a fast food joint on just about every corner. I suppose there are folks who just have to cache--there's no other way to entertain themselves. The "fast food of caching" is almost always available in some areas.

 

Us, we'd much rather find that little hole in the wall place to eat. We've been to every big chain fast food place and the majority of the chain sit-downs places. We'll almost always opt for a sit-down place over a fast food joint, and for an independent over a chain. If we're going to spend the time to eat and enjoy our meal we're going to opt for a quality place over a fast food joint.

 

Of course, this is all contingent on "LPC" as a euphemism for "lame parking lot caches hidden under a lamp post skirt" for the purposes of this thread as no technique itself is really lame. It's where you put it.

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Wow ... is it really already time again for another reminder? Where does the time go?

 

Anything you'd like to say to me before we address your point, CR?

I think the OP was a lot more persuasive than this post. You've got a good point- no need to dilute it by bringing burned out disagreements that were boring the first time.

It IS a shame he had to show up. And I agree – this IS getting old.

 

I didn't ask to be called a liar and a troll by CoyoteRed, but I am going to stick to my insistence that he apologize to me for those things before I debate with him any further.

 

I would be happy to point out the many fallacies in his posts, but – what would be the point? So he could tell me, again, that I don’t really believe the things I say?

 

I’ll send him a PM and see if we can resolve this thing offline.

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I'm fairly new to geocaching, so LPC may not have had the time to really affect me the way it has others, though I've done a fair amount of them. My opinion is that they are kind of a necessary evil. Like it baseball. The reason that fast balls are effective is because of the possiblitiy of a curve ball or off-speed pitch.

 

The cache that had me laughing the longest (so far) was a LPC. I lifted the skirt, saw the tube wrapped in black tape, grabbed it, pulled it out, and screamed! I didn't see it initially, but the tube was attached to a rubber rat. This is a cache, lamp post or otherwise, that I will always remember.

 

I still do LPC, but mainly with the hope of getting a curve ball.

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... Never know what you'll grab onto. Hopefully not a live wire.
One word. Mirror.
I know a live wire is a little different than putting you hand in a hole in the rocks or a tree and risk getting bit. But, we all do it with out thinking. I will at times wear leather gloves that offer some protection but a mirror won't always fit into tight quarters. So we all run the risk.Have you considered a smaller mirror?

pdt5300.jpg

 

Back to the OP, I agree completely. I also find the 'working secretly among muggles' factor to be a plus.

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You know, boiling geocaching into it's purest form, it is a simple game of hide and seek. You hide something, and I try to find it.

 

I think this aspect is what has always drawn me, at the basest level, to this sport. As I have said many times, I don't care what or how or where you hide a cache, if it is near me, I am going to find it. And I will thank you for the effort, because you helped me have fun. Even with a LPC.

Edited by Jhwk
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You know, boiling geocaching into it's purest form, it is a simple game of hide and seek. You hide something, and I try to find it.

 

I think this aspect is what has always drawn me, at the basest level, to this sport. As I have said many times, I don't care what or how or where you hide a cache, if it is near me, I am going to find it. And I will thank you for the effort, because you helped me have fun. Even with a LPC.

Does there really need to be any other reason? Everything else is just icing on an already-very-cool cake.

 

I've made this point before: There are plenty of people who hear about this sport or get taken on their first cache outing, only to decide that the whole freaking thing is a pointless waste of time. These people are the ultimate Complainers: "Your whole hobby is stupid! What's the point? It's all so lame!!"

 

It's ALL kitsch to them, but not a kitsch they can appreciate.

 

Whenever I describe Geocaching to someone who has never heard of it before the common reaction is for their eyes to widen in excitement as the concept sinks in, and for them to utter something like "THAT sounds like FUN!!"

 

A few, however, have shrugged their shoulders and said "So?"

 

One guy even responded: "So where's the angle?"

'What angle?" I asked.

"How do you make money doing that?"

"You don't."

"And you say you're not allowed to keep what you find?"

"Not if you're honorable, and follow the rules. The container is supposed to go back where you found it, and if you take anything out of it you're expected to trade -- put something else in."

"Then why bother in the first place?"

"Because it's fun to be in on a secret, because it's fun to play with a GPS, because there are a variety of adventures available, and mostly because it get you outside."

"But I can get myself outside without having to follow someone else's silly rules. Your hobby is a stupid waste of time."

 

Geocaching is like jazz. If someone has to explain it to you to that degree, you're probably never going to enjoy it.

 

If there is some element of caching that you don't enjoy, it's not likely that anyone is ever going to talk you into enjoying it. That has to come from within. Same goes for the hobby as a whole.

Edited by KBI
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You know, boiling geocaching into it's purest form, it is a simple game of hide and seek. You hide something, and I try to find it.

 

I think this aspect is what has always drawn me, at the basest level, to this sport. As I have said many times, I don't care what or how or where you hide a cache, if it is near me, I am going to find it. And I will thank you for the effort, because you helped me have fun. Even with a LPC.

I think this is the best definition of geocaching. I understand those who want to define a [good] cache as one that takes you to a interesting place. The problem comes in defining what is interesting or worthy of having a cache. What KBI finds interesting may be very different than what Coyote Red finds interesting. Some people find "kitcsh" interesting. Put a cache in a Wal*Mart parking lot and it is interesting just because it's another hide in a Wal*Mart parking lot. Some may find it interesting that a cache can exist in an area where hundreds of muggles pass by every day. Others find it interesting to have to find the cache in front of all those muggles without being detected. Those who want to impose on the community their opinion of what is interesting and worthy are "snobs". If Coyote Red is offended by that, so be it.

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I didn't ask to be called a liar and a troll by CoyoteRed, but I am going to stick to my insistence that he apologize to me for those things before I debate with him any further.

 

...

 

I’ll send him a PM and see if we can resolve this thing offline.

Funny that I'm responding to a post then get called out for something that didn't even happen. Then get a PM stating that if I don't apologize with stipulations I was going to get reported.

 

...and I'm the bully?

 

I stand by my assessment of the OP's take on lame caches and I take exception to being called a snob because I prefer quality caches over trache. How about stop the outright threats and thinly veiled name calling?

 

Additionally, I'd think characterizing LPC's, in general, as "kitcsh" does a disservice to caches similar to those that Lep likes to point out as prime examples.

 

Maybe the OP likes bad caches. That's fine. But don't call the rest of us snobs because we don't.

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I didn't ask to be called a liar and a troll by CoyoteRed, but I am going to stick to my insistence that he apologize to me for those things before I debate with him any further.

 

...

 

I’ll send him a PM and see if we can resolve this thing offline.

Funny that I'm responding to a post then get called out for something that didn't even happen. Then get a PM stating that if I don't apologize with stipulations I was going to get reported.

 

...and I'm the bully?

 

I stand by my assessment of the OP's take on lame caches and I take exception to being called a snob because I prefer quality caches over trache. How about stop the outright threats and thinly veiled name calling?

 

Additionally, I'd think characterizing LPC's, in general, as "kitcsh" does a disservice to caches similar to those that Lep likes to point out as prime examples.

 

Maybe the OP likes bad caches. That's fine. But don't call the rest of us snobs because we don't.

Maybe the OP, and many others, doesn't consider them 'bad' caches (or trache or whatever the insulting term of the day is).
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Maybe the OP likes bad caches. That's fine. But don't call the rest of us snobs because we don't.

 

I think Isbell said this in a better way. The OP has a different expectation than you do. Once you use subjective words like "bad" the communication stops.

I like your reply better than mine.

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Maybe the OP likes bad caches. That's fine. But don't call the rest of us snobs because we don't.

 

I think Isbell said this in a better way. The OP has a different expectation than you do. Once you use subjective words like "bad" the communication stops.

I like your reply better than mine.

 

Well, I was quoting you so I can understand why you might like it. :blink:

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Maybe the OP likes bad caches. That's fine. But don't call the rest of us snobs because we don't.
I think Isbell said this in a better way. The OP has a different expectation than you do. Once you use subjective words like "bad" the communication stops.

Okay. Someone tell me the word to use for cache hunts that are less than satisfying. You come up with a word that designates those types of hunts and that's what we'll use.

 

No? Is it because it will still signify the same thing? "A lame cache by any other name stinks just as bad."

 

Seriously, if you don't like the terms "bad," "trache," or "lame" what shall we use?

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Maybe someone should ask this guy what he thinks of Kitch?

 

I enjoy the occasional LPC too. I really enjoy the variety of hides and locations that this sport offers. After a breakfast farewell event yesterday it was just too hot (98) to do any serious hiking caches but we were still able to have fun finding 15+ of all different sorts. At one of them we got to see a group from a church teen group cross the finish line of their own Amazing Race using two 4x4 timbers and rope handles as a four person xx ski.

Wouldn't have been able to enjoy that if I was out hiking in the woods, or home in the a/c or pool. :blink:

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Maybe the OP likes bad caches. That's fine. But don't call the rest of us snobs because we don't.
I think Isbell said this in a better way. The OP has a different expectation than you do. Once you use subjective words like "bad" the communication stops.

Okay. Someone tell me the word to use for cache hunts that are less than satisfying. You come up with a word that designates those types of hunts and that's what we'll use.

 

No? Is it because it will still signify the same thing? "A lame cache by any other name stinks just as bad."

 

Seriously, if you don't like the terms "bad," "trache," or "lame" what shall we use?

If you left out the adjective completely, then the angst level would drop significantly.

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I have no issue with lamp post hides. It is actually a brilliant hiding spot. The only "problem" is that it is overused. I think I actually went to 3 hides and dnf'd them. It wasn't till I went to a 4th and saw the cache in the lamp post because the post was slightly broken. I'm guessing that lamp post hides rarely if ever get muggled.

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Maybe the OP likes bad caches. That's fine. But don't call the rest of us snobs because we don't.
I think Isbell said this in a better way. The OP has a different expectation than you do. Once you use subjective words like "bad" the communication stops.

Okay. Someone tell me the word to use for cache hunts that are less than satisfying. You come up with a word that designates those types of hunts and that's what we'll use.

 

No? Is it because it will still signify the same thing? "A lame cache by any other name stinks just as bad."

 

Seriously, if you don't like the terms "bad," "trache," or "lame" what shall we use?

You don't need to use a term - lameness, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

 

You didn't enjoy it? Fine, but there is no need to spoil my fun. As I said above, FOR ME, the game is still about the joy of a basic hide and seek. I get a thrill every time I hunt a new cache. As a matter of fact, I am enjoying the 'straight' caches more (go, find, sign log) then all of the newer caches that require all kind of mechanics, mathematics, physics, or a history lesson and test.

 

You hide, I find. And I will ALWAYS thank you for the hide, whether I consider it a lesser cache hide or not. Your effort let me have some fun for a while, and I will thank you for that.

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Seriously, if you don't like the terms "bad," "trache," or "lame" what shall we use?

How about "uninspired"? :anitongue:

I prefer the term "Post-Classical."

 

My term specifically refers to the controversial form of the easy urban micro. It makes no aesthetic judgment about any cache form one way or the other, yet it acknowledges the departure from the origins of the sport – the "classical" type of ammo-can-in-the-woods cache.

 

Angst-free, no?

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Seriously, if you don't like the terms "bad," "trache," or "lame" what shall we use?
How about "uninspired"? :anitongue:
I prefer the term "Post-Classical."

 

My term specifically refers to the controversial form of the easy urban micro. It makes no aesthetic judgment about any cache form one way or the other, yet it acknowledges the departure from the origins of the sport – the "classical" type of ammo-can-in-the-woods cache.

 

Angst-free, no?

Sneaky move to try to equate what I'm saying in my quote to a benign hide technique. It's not the same thing.

 

Specifically, I don't have a problem with micros, urban caches, easy caches, or even easy, urban caches under lamp post skirts. This type of hide technique is little different than an ammo can under leaves next to a tree. It's almost always the context in which the hide technique is used that most folks have a problem with.

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Specifically, I don't have a problem with micros, urban caches, easy caches, or even easy, urban caches under lamp post skirts. This type of hide technique is little different than an ammo can under leaves next to a tree. It's almost always the context in which the hide technique is used that most folks have a problem with.

Exactly. There are some people who believe that any cache which does not take you to an "interesting" place is lame. The problem is the same as the virtual "Wow" requirement. What someone finds as interesting or worthy of a cache is personal preference. KBI has indicated that the "kitsch" of hiding something in a parking lot is enough to make it interesting. Some people feel that the ability to have a cache hidden in a mundane place where muggle walk by all day long unaware there is a cache there is "interesting". CoyoteRed may feel that his definition of "interesting" is the one we should all accept. Sounds like the definition of a snob

2. a person who believes himself or herself an expert or connoisseur in a given field and is condescending toward or disdainful of those who hold other opinions or have different tastes regarding this field
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