Cache Bandit.

[+Sileny Jizda]

Honestly, as I type this I'm mad enough to spit nails and break fence posts. I just got a report of one of our caches being visited by a Cache Bandit. Essentially, our cache container was stolen. More things than not point to a geocacher taking it. First, it's a park no hunting. It's a park that requires a fairly decent hike down to the location and back out packing the ammo can. Second, they had the gall to take only the can, and leave the contents in the bag in the original location nice and neat. Third, you can't see the cache on a good day because it's in a grove of trees in the middle of a field, in the middle of a tree. In order to get off the trail to go towards the cache you don't need to brushwhack but it takes some real doing to get to the clearing to go to the cache. Bottom line the only possible outcome is cacher too d%^$ cheap to go buy their own container. I'm ruling out a cacher with a grudge since to my knowledge we haven't upset anyone. The previous owner of the cache location was given ample notice to remedy their cache situation and didn't. However, I wonder since they did log on not long after we placed the cache and haven't found any new caches or placed any either. Maybe a tit for tat situation. Who knows. What I do know I don't take outright theft lightly.

 

For now we're trying to decide whether or not to bother replacing the cache. In the original container we placed, we put enough ample supply to last 4-6 months given the number of visitors the previous had. Right now I don't want to place another ammo can only to have the Geocache Bandit steal from me again so I'm not sure what to do.

 

Sorry for the rambling but I needed to vent.

[+badlands]

Give them the benefit of the doubt and replace it, it could just have been muggled by someone passing by. (innocent until proven guilty)

[+Sileny Jizda]

That's the thing though, you didn't just pass by and see this particular cache. They also took the time to replace the contents in the bag, and place the bag where the container was hidden. Far from a typical snatch and run.

[+The Leprechauns]

I hid a cache at a random spot in the woods, six miles from the nearest paved roads. A muggle happened upon it, took all the cache swag (worth in excess of $100), and left the ammo box.

 

My suggestion is for my cache thief to meet up with your cache thief. They could then hide a truly kickin' cache in an ammo box with lots of geocoins, electronics and camping accessories.

[Mag Magician]

Yee haw! Welcome to the frustrations of being muggled, raided, or downright stolen. While I feel for your plight at the moment, it is not unusual to be confused by the disappearance of a cache, or a cache container. We live with the disappointments, and we carry on, all in the name of the game. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt and moved on. I wish you only the best of luck, when you move your hide a few feet, re-hide, and see if it happens again. w

We have all had such disappointments, and wish that it will never happen again, but it will. May the force be with you.

[+Sileny Jizda]

LOL, sounds good to me. The ironic thing is the original site didn't seem to have muggle problems at all in the entire previous 5 years it was active. This was the last cache we expected to get jacked like this. If anything our most concerned cache was the one where I work with tourists all about.

[+Kit Fox]

It is always my remote caches that disappear first. My remedy for preventing this from happening is make my most valuable caches extreme hikes, requiring 5 plus mile hikes over rough terrain, make your caches obtuse puzzles, and Premium Members only, or place them fifty feet up in a tree.

[+Sileny Jizda]

hmm, up a tree..... lol, if you saw my body type you'd know there isn't a tree that'd hold me and the ones that can my legs are too short to try and climb. My wife is an ER nurse but I don't think she wants to practice on me. We're thinking about a multi using signs right now. Definatly going with a cheaper container. We have a 5 gallon bucket in the garage with a snap tight lid.

[+MtnGoat50]

My guess is this was taken by a muggle. A real geo bandit would have taken everything or left only a note to tease you. A geocacher would have also realized that ammo cans are cheap, $4 to $6 bucks in my area, not much of a prize. A muggle would have thought "Score!" then maybe felt bad after reading the info and left the other stuff neatly ziplocked so as not to totally spoil the game.

 

I'd move it a little and hide it better (the muggle may come back for another can) and not worry too much about it.

[+Sileny Jizda]

In these parts they between $12 to $20 and are (as the guy that I buy them from says) hard as hens teeth to get. From the log I received they also took the laminated geocaching info card we made as well. We'll verify in the next week for certain. The plastic bucket is looking better and better.

[nobby.nobbs]

i'd go with muggle not cacher. i have a simple rule, if it gets muggled it gets archived.

 

then place another some way off so that it's less likely that it will go again, if you put it back in the same place you're just asking for it to happen again.....

[+briansnat]

More things than not point to a geocacher taking it.

 

Very unlikely that it was a geocacher. I understand in some areas there are people who will hunt down caches that are in ammo boxes to steal the box. They use a GPS just like geocachers do, but I wouldn't call them geocachers.

 

It could have been a geocacher with a grudge, but I think he would have taken the whole thing.

 

It was obviously someone who wanted it for the ammo box.

 

If I were you I wouldn't mention the fact that it's in an ammo box on the page. No ammo box thief is going to hike out to a cache unless he knows it is an ammo box.

[+briansnat]

And BTW if you are paying 12 to 20 bucks for an ammo box you are getting ripped off.

[Clan Riffster]

Having met scads of cachers, I can say without reservation that I've never met one that I would think of as a thief. The two activities just don't seem to mesh.

[+Too Tall John]

In these parts they between $12 to $20 and are (as the guy that I buy them from says) hard as hens teeth to get.

Of course that's what he's going to tell you, he's trying to make them seem more valuable. The local surplus store around here sells 'em for $4.99 each, and I can't see any reason it should be any harder for your guy to get them at a worse rate than the store here does. Heck, with a quick search on a popular auction site I came up with loads of "Buy it Now" offers for 2 cans for under $18 (not apiece, but for the pair), including shipping. I have no idea how much it costs to ship one of those buggers, but I suspect they are making a pretty decent profit.

 

So, I must agree with briansnat, and recommend you find a new source.

[+rdaines]

I'd have to agree that there a cacher bandits and thieves out there. I've seen too many thing vanish (TBs Coins) to blame muggles. While it hasn't happened to me yet, I have heard of people losing containers with the cache contents dumped. Leaving the container a mystery is one way to go but I like knowing what I'm looking for (Altoids tin vs ammo box). However, if you want to play the game you're gonna get some bruises.

[+J-Way]

In these parts they between $12 to $20 and are (as the guy that I buy them from says) hard as hens teeth to get. From the log I received they also took the laminated geocaching info card we made as well. We'll verify in the next week for certain. The plastic bucket is looking better and better.

Wow... that's expensive. Check out Army Surplus stores, pawn shops, and flea markets. If you're lucky and you custom painted it, you might even recognize your can for sale somewhere, right next to the hen's teeth.

 

The local Army store in Chattanooga sells .30 cal cans for $7.50 or so each. If you're willing to buy in bulk (4-5 or more at a time), you can usually get for less than $6.00 each (including shipping) on eBay or elsewhere on-line.

 

And while I haven't been there, from your description it sounds unlikely that it was muggle-stolen even though there is usually a geo-trail leading directly to most woodsy caches. There's probably a local geocacher that participates and logs finds in other caches, just not on the caches where he/she steals the container.

[+Sileny Jizda]

In our area he's the only guy to get cans from at an army surplus store in Wooster (Link). Other places I've seen on the net to purchase them from when shipping is included ends up costing the same per can to ship here. Unless I can find another supplier within 50 miles of Holmes County, Ohio I don't plan on buying them online. As for using them anymore I'm planning on finding another alternative that won't be as appealing to someone looking to steal them. My only other option is stamping our name, cache number, and contact info on the can. That's assuming it would be used as a cache again and someone notices when they find the cache. Frankly I'm not that interested in all that work for a can. It's easier just to hide something smaller or a different type of container.

 

My definition of Geocache Bandit: Anyone that uses a GPS and the information provided here to find and steal someone else's hard worked for property. I know they exist and do abuse the system here for finding what they want be it cans, tb's, or geocoins. As for their not being any thieves amongst cacher's that's wishful thinking. Any group large enough will have a twisted minority within it. It's human nature.

 

In my opinion people like that, should they ever be found, need to be strung up by their particulars.

Edited August 5, 2007 by Sileny Jizda

[+team lagonda]

use a plastic peanut butter jar..if they take it , who cares....

[+rdaines]

use a plastic peanut butter jar..if they take it , who cares....

 

I don't think the lost money is the point. When we buy TBs, Geocoins, swag and containers I assume the risk that it may, one day be gone. Destruction by muggles or nature happens but to have players of this game steal is disheartening.

[+team lagonda]

well..if,n ya cant stop em....use peanut butter jars....lol..

[+sacred6]

If you are so upset about this incident, and are willing to pay some money to catch the bandit, here's an idea. Go to a local hunting store and buy one of those motion sensing cameras to see who it is. Just an idea.

[+skyraider]

Sorry about your ammo being solen.That is the second time you have been ripped off on the very same item.

 

You need to take a caching trip over to Rogers, OH some Friday. There is a HUGE Flea Market every Fri. that is worth the trip, (over 1600 venders,) and you can stop nearby at Buckeye Fireams to stock up on cans. I believe I paid $15 for 4 - 30 cal. cans the last I was up there. Maybe you should check their inventory and current prices before making the drive. The phone # is 330 227-9344. There is also several very good caches in nearby Beaver Creek State Park.

[+briansnat]

use a plastic peanut butter jar..if they take it , who cares....

 

I don't think the lost money is the point. When we buy TBs, Geocoins, swag and containers I assume the risk that it may, one day be gone. Destruction by muggles or nature happens but to have players of this game steal is disheartening.

 

I don't think it's established that a geocacher did it. I personally think it's unlikely. Impossible? No, but generally a geocacher isn't going to screw over everyone else just so he can score an ammo box for his

own cache. A game that is totally dependent on the goodwill and honesty of others tends not to attract

that sort of person.

 

It's probably a hunter or someone else who wants a few ammo boxes and sees geocaches as an easy source.

[+Mr. 0]

In our area he's the only guy to get cans from at an army surplus store in Wooster (Link). Other places I've seen on the net to purchase them from when shipping is included ends up costing the same per can to ship here. Unless I can find another supplier within 50 miles of Holmes County, Ohio I don't plan on buying them online.

 

Not sure if you ever get down to Columbus much, but there are a couple of surplus stores down there that usually have the smaller cans for about $4 and the "regular" size ones for about $6. It looks like they would be just outside of your 50 mile range though.

 

For what it's worth though there's....

 

Surplus World

2590 Morse Road

Columbus, OH

 

and

 

Cousin's Army/Navy

1453 N. High St. (the northwest corner of 8th ave and high)

Columbus, OH 43201

 

Those are the two I visit most often when I need to buy some ammo cans.

 

Edit: Forgot and used HTML instead of BBcode for my links...oops.

Edited August 5, 2007 by Mr. 0

[+Sileny Jizda]

The park the cache is located in is a city park with supposedly absolutely no hunting allowed. We're not going to even think about using a peanut butter jar. We've found a few and they don't work real well at all. lol I'll take note of the recommended places to visit for containers in the future also. This was the third cache whacked in about 3 weeks. One was a repair job, the other was a city crew cleaning up another park. Nothing really odd at all there. From what I've seen so far the other caches in the park have remained untouched. The new container we are making will be hidden even better and blend more effectively. We figure while we're there we'll drop off another in the park that should drive people nuts.

[CoyoteRed]

A couple of things come to mind as I read this.

 

We placed a cache in what we thought was a very remote area. It's a short hike but a bushwhack. No trail. 20' up a tree. Didn't last 2 months. Totally screwed with my mind.

 

First, there are plenty of folks just like us who like to explore. We're not the only one's out there. "I wonder where this goes." 'Nuff said.

 

Second, anything remotely interesting increase the danger of discovery. Hollow trees and stumps are interesting. We've come across or had more muggled caches in hollow trees than anything else--especially if it's within eyeshot of the trail.

 

Up a tree only makes the cache visible from a greater distance if you don't take measures to hide it. Don't do anything that will cause one's eye to be drawn to the spot.

 

Lock it! ...to the tree! Locking a cache to a tree will not stop the determined muggler, but will stop the casual "oh, pretty"-types cold. Plus a lock looks more serious. You can lock the cache closed or just to your anchor. The choice is yours.

 

There are plenty of hide techniques that are counter intuitive. What you might think is the perfect spot turns out to be a muggle magnet. If your eye is drawn to the spot...

[+Hockeyhick]

I had one...bolted to a post, locked with an industrial padlock.

 

It was opened (only a cacher would have the knowledge to deduce the combination)

Dis-assembled to reveal the lag-bolts holding the container in place

Removed

 

I also had two others swiped within the same week.

 

Another local cacher also had an ammo-can swiped, and the coins (unregistered and registered) and TB's were placed in another cache about thirty miles away.

 

Muggles didn't do that.

 

We have a cache thief in the Upstate.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

A few notes to the OP:

 

Despite your readiness to jump to the conclusion that the person who stole your cache container was a geocacher, there is little or no evidence that this is/was so. The greatest likelihood is that a muggle stumbled upon the cache and decided to steal the cache container. Maybe they did not even view it as stealing, since they may have reasoned that you did leave the container unattended and unsecured out in the wilderness.

 

And, the next greatest likelihood, from my perspective, is that a casual user of the web who visited the GC website may have noticed the listing, recorded the waypoint coordinates, and visited the cache with the purpose of stealing the ammo can. The act of visiting the GC website (which anyone may do, so long as they take the five seconds needed to create a free acccount) and the act of stealing your container do not, of themselves, make the larcenous site visitor a geocacher. BTW, one way to largely eliminate such GC website-savvy thieves -- at least all but the most determined and dedicated -- is to make your caches PM-only caches.

[+SanityEndsHere]

As much as I hate to admit it there are geocachers that are cache bandits. Why someone would want to ruin a fun hobby like geocaching I have yet to figure out. But I attempted a 5 stage multi out in the middle of nowhere and the first stage could not have been found without having knowledge about geocaching. Cachers in the area even had to ask the hider for hints because it was hidden so well. Even found the bandits calling card... they called themselves GeoPirates. Luckily I knew the cache owner and he was able to give me coordinates to the next stage... Come to find out all of the stages were missing and they weren't close to each other at all so I can't imagine they were stumbled upon. The cache owner had deleted someones log and thats who he assumes it was. Did you guys by any chance delete someones find log or make someone mad in any emails? If so... I don't want to accuse but they would be the first suspects. Otherwise it really could have been a muggle. Never know when or where nature will call and that could have caused someone to be in that area and they could have stumbled upon it.

 

As for replacing the container... I say use a lock-n-lock container if you can't find any cheaper ammo cans. Or you can stock up with them like I do. Never know when you will come upon a great cache spot. And like a good boy/girl scout you should always be prepared.

[+kg6dfh]

I got a DNF on a cache, and it said the area was recently bulldozed. The next day I checked on it, and the immediate area of the cache was untouched, but the cache was missing. I archived so I could move it to the other side of the road, and within a couple of hours, a new cache had been placed, along with 6 others. One cache was placed approximately 250 feet from mine. The hider of these 7 brand new caches, was none other than the person who DNF'd mine. Coincidence?

[+rdaines]

Yep, contrary to what we'd like to believe and with the growth of people knowing about this hobby (TV, articles, websites,...) I think it's obvious that a small percentage of cachers have larcenous and nefarious traits.

Missing cache containers, missing TBs and Geocoins, location-nappers all point to it. I know that people "watch" my caches, just waiting for items to be added, sometimes they are snatched and never heard of again, other times a cacher grabs stuff and moves it on. At some level I don't mind previous finders removing trackables but they should leave a note on the website and maybe they should just "discover" the item. I try to keep some caches full for new finders when the go empty.

[+LewisClan77]

use a plastic peanut butter jar..

OH NO...we're not going to drag that thread out of the dirt again.Are We?

[TeamCypherX]

Almost the same thing happened to me this weekend. We had our annual event on Saturday and Friday night I went and made sure my multi in the area was in good condition and full of swag. When I arrived Satuday, another cacher handed me a mangled ammo can (top snapped off, body smashed in with a boot, contents missing and thrown in woods).

 

They walked with me to the next stage since I no longer had the coordinates to give them. Same thing - completely smashed. All and all I lost 4 ammo boxes :-(

 

While I'd like to think it was just someone who didn't know what it was, I'm convinced someone had either foudn it in the past or was on a mission to ruin my cache. None of the other ones in the area were destroyed and a couple stages of mine were just NOT anywhere close to a trail.

 

Some people just have no honor.

 

Robert

[+hukilaulau]

A couple of things come to mind as I read this.

 

First, there are plenty of folks just like us who like to explore. We're not the only one's out there. "I wonder where this goes." 'Nuff said.

 

Second, anything remotely interesting increase the danger of discovery.

This is exactly what I thought when I read the post. I've seen some caches in the woods where I thought, "How could this NOT be muggled? If I lived around here when I was a kid I would have been all over this."

[+Sileny Jizda]

Just an update on the situation for this particular cache. I was completely wrong about the status of this cache. We went to replace it with another container, swag, log, etc only to find the original container exactly where we left it and on coords. We checked the logbook and found only one cacher had successfully found the cache and logged the find. Then using the previous logs about a logbook, swag, and such in a ziplock bag up in a tree we looked for the impostor cache. It was located just as quickly given we knew the area well. All that was left to do was pack out the geotrash someone left to use to log a find when in fact they didn't find the cache. Ironically enough, we could see the cache container from the location the impostor cache was located.

 

**EDITED

 

I just donned some latex and went into the bag to find the logbook was indeed placed a year ago as a replacement long before our time. We'll most likely dry it out and save the logs for the cache. We must have walked right by the thing four or five times when we checked the area before placing the replacement the first time around. Then again it was up a tree.

Edited September 1, 2007 by Sileny Jizda

[+nekom]

Ammo boxes make dandy containers for lots of things besides geocaches, so it's not unreasonable to think that somebody passing by found it and said "Hey free box, woot!" and didn't want the contents. Our local army/navy store has 50 cal boxes for $6 and they are in no short supply, they have a whole room full of 'em. They have a lot of other sizes as well, smaller and larger. My advice would be if you DO replace it, move it to a new and more concealed hiding area if possible. I'm lucky enough to have not had to deal with that sort of thing (yet at least), but I am sure it's very frustrating.

[+Lil Weed Pot and Flower]

use a plastic peanut butter jar..if they take it , who cares....

 

Cannot use peanut butter jars, peanut butter sticks to my dentures. I use empty Metamucal jars.

[+TitusLlewelyn]

I had a Lock&Lock container taken. I am pretty sure it was by a homeless person that needed the container to keep their belongings dry in. Once replaced it remained so they probably moved on.

[+Lacomo]

If you are so upset about this incident, and are willing to pay some money to catch the bandit, here's an idea. Go to a local hunting store and buy one of those motion sensing cameras to see who it is. Just an idea.

 

Then they would steal the camera and the ammo box.

I have one of the game cams (I paid around 200 bucks for it) and I ain't putting it out to catch a thief as much as I would love to catch one if they stole my cache.

 

Also I agree your ammo box supplier is ripping you off.