Help Me Edit My First NGS Submission

[+Rumpled]

OK, I found a benchmark; DX4388 with no submissions since monumented in 1973.

Geocaching BM Page

 

A lot has changed in Orange County and I'd like to make a submission for this one.

 

I was a bit surprised to find this, as about 10-15 years ago, the freeway in this area was massively widened; like from 6 lanes to I think 23. This is at the point where it all comes back together, and I guess the bridge hasn't changed. A fair amount of the description has.

 

Here's the station description with some edits and my comments in parentheses

 

DX4388'DESCRIBED BY CALTRANS 1973 (ARA)

DX4388'THE STATION IS LOCATED ON THE TOP OF A CONCRETE BRIDGE CROSSING

DX4388'OVER INTERSTATE ROUTE 5 ABOUT 1.5 MILES WEST OF THE CITY OF EL

DX4388'TORO LAKE FOREST

( El Toro never was a City, and now it IS the City of Lake Forest) AND ABOUT 1 MILES NORTH OF THE COMMUNITY OF LEISURE WORLD LAGUNA WOODS VILLAGE

( A little more complicated here. Leisure World was a community that has just been renamed Laguna Woods Village. LWV is a gated senior community; it and just a little bit more area is now the City of Laguna Woods. I'd be inclined to put the city, but is also about a half mile East of the City of Laguna Hills. Generally, when referring to cities, are they using PO's or City Hall locations?)

 

DX4388'

DX4388'TO REACH THE STATION FROM THE INTERSECTION OF INTERSTATE ROUTE

DX4388'5 AND EL TORO ROAD, IN THE CITY OF EL TORO LAKE FOREST

( A little tricky, I think that point is at/near the border of the three cities mentioned)

, PROCEED NORTH ON

DX4388'INTERSTATE ROUTE 5 FOR 0.9 MILE TO THE CANADA AVENUE

(Renamed at some point)

LAKE FOREST DRIVE OFF RAMP.

DX4388'TAKE THE OFF RAMP 0.25 MILE

( This has probably changed to ~.5 mile as the off ramp roll out was lengthened)

TO THE INTERSECTION OF THE OFF RAMP AND

DX4388'CANADA AVENUE LAKE FOREST DRIVE. TURN LEFT, NORTHWEST, ONTO CANADA AVENUE LAKE FOREST DRIVE AND

DX4388'GO 0.2 MILE TO THE CANADA AVENUE LAKE FOREST DRIVE OVERCROSSING AND THE STATION SITE

DX4388'IN THE MEDIAN STRIP.

DX4388'

DX4388'THE STATION MARK IS A STANDARD CALIFORNIA DIVISION OF HIGHWAYS

DX4388'(CADH) DISK STAMPED CANADA

(It's actually got a tilde ~ on the N, see my log picture)

 

 

1973 SET IN THE TOP OF A CONCRETE MEDIAN

DX4388'AND IS FLUSH WITH THE MEDIAN SURFACE. IT IS 5 FEET EAST OF THE

DX4388'WEST END OF THE BRIDGE, 2.5 FEET NORTH OF THE SOUTH CURB FACE OF

DX4388'THE MEDIAN, AND IS 12 INCHES HIGHER THAN THE TRAVELED WAY.

 

(Being that it was night in the median of a 3 lanes each way street, I didn't take time to verify these measurements. To the amateur eye, they seemed close enough.)

DX4388'

DX4388'REFERENCE MARK 1, A STANDARD CADH DISK STAMPED CANADA NO 1 1973,

DX4388'IS SET IN THE TOP OF A CONCRETE SIDEWALK ON THE BRIDGE AND IS

DX4388'FLUSH WITH THE SURFACE OF THE SIDEWALK. IT IS 18 INCHES NORTH OF

DX4388'THE NORTH CURB FACE, 60 FEET EAST OF THE WEST END OF THE BRIDGE,

DX4388'ABOUT 3.5 FEET SOUTH OF THE NORTH EDGE OF THE BRIDGE, AND IS THE

DX4388'SAME ELEVATION AS THE STATION.

DX4388'

DX4388'REFERENCE MARK 2, A STANDARD CADH DISK STAMPED CANADA NO 2 1973,

DX4388'IS SET IN THE TOP OF A CONCRETE MEDIAN AND IS FLUSH WITH THE MEDIAN

DX4388'SURFACE. IT IS 58 FEET EAST OF THE WEST END OF THE BRIDGE, ABOUT

DX4388'1 FOOT NORTH OF THE SOUTH CURB FACE OF THE MEDIAN, ABOUT 6 FEET

DX4388'SOUTH OF THE CENTERLINE OF CANADA AVENUE, AND IS THE SAME

DX4388'ELEVATION AS THE STATION.

DX4388'

DX4388'HEIGHT OF LIGHT ABOVE STATION MARK 1.28 METERS

 

I didn't look for the RM's, but will seek them out soon in daylight and try to get pictures of all. From knowing the intersection, the likelyhood of finding 1 or both RM's has a high confidence value in my head.

 

For my submission, I would like to put something such as go to is adequate/ or sufficient with the following changes, listing what I have described above. Or, might it best be described as at the bridge of Lake Forest Dr over I-5 in the city of _____ ? Gotta figure out that border.

 

Can someone give me a little help or tips on how best t word this and complete the submission?

 

Thanks

[monkeykat]

I don't have as many submissions as others, but I keep mine as simple as possible. For mine I would mark recovery as good, and in the description write:

 

"CANADA AVENUE NOW RENAMED LAKE FOREST DRIVE"

 

that's it

[AZcachemeister]

Since the location is adjusted (the co-ordinates are hyper-accurate) the descriptive text is really not needed.

As pointed out above, I would just mention the name-change of the road.

 

The Character Map utility in Windows will give you access to (Ñ) and a host of other symbols hidden in your TrueType fonts.

[Bill93]

I would be slightly wordier than the other replies, by including all the renamed things.

 

If you go back to check for RM's, also take note of whether the main disk is suitable for satellite observation, as the NGS form will ask you. If you aren't sure, you can enter "Don't Know". The guideline is clear sky above 15 degrees from the horizon. That is approximately what you get if you stretch out your arm and fan your fingers out, set your little finger about where you think is horizontal, and look for obstructions seen above your thumb. If there is more than a couple trees or poles, not too close, then the sky is too obstructed. Also, if it looks suitable but the median is too small to set up a tripod without stopping traffic, that might be worth noting.

 

The NGS data base, last time I submitted which has been far too long, turned everything into capital letters with only the basic alphanumerics and a few special signs. You won't get the tilde, I'll bet.

 

So, a possible report would be:

-check the box for Good condition

"El Toro is now Lake Forest and Leisure world is Laguna Woods Village. Canada avenue is Lake Forest Drive and ramp lengthened to 1/2 mile. Narrow median requires traffic control to occupy station."

-Check the box suitable for satellite if you think so.

[mloser]

I lean towards Bill93's suggestions. I would state the renamed areas and streets. I wouldn't really bother with fixing the "to reach" part of it--in a built up area the street names should be good enough. I also wouldn't submit until I had looked for the reference marks. I never submit a triangulation station to the NGS without a complete accounting of the mark, including all reference marks and the azimuth (yours doesn't have an azi though). To me it is all part of the package and I don't submit until I have done all the work looking for all marks.

I also agree that the tilde will not appear, and may not even be accepted when you submit. The submission page does not allow a number of special characters. I am sure this goes back to the days when the data was mainframe based (it still may be) and the character set was limited.

[+shorbird]

I would go with Bill93 and mloser on this one, including all of the renamed towns and streets in my report. With such changes, I usually begin with "add to description," unless I plan to rewrite the entire report. I would also not submit a report until I had accounted for both RMs(searched for and found in good condition, searched for and not found, etc.). This is standard NGS practice for any marks with RMs, and azimuth marks if there are any.

[+Klemmer]

Yeah, like Bill said. I agree in principle that your should give some accounting of the RM's. If you do plan to get back there, by all means hold up on the report. However, if it not realistic to get back anytime soon (e.g. out of your normal area, getting to the mark needs special permission to get to, a 2 day hike, etc.), then it's OK to add something like: "RM's not searched for at this tme".

 

P.S. We're not competitive or anything like that, but you know, there are OTHERS out there...... including me up here in north Orange County (Placentia). PM me if you are going to do some interesting BM'ing and want some company, & I'll do the same.

Edited August 3, 2007 by Klemmer & TeddyBearMama

[+Rumpled]

Thanks all

 

I went this evening and found the RM's very easily.

I forgot my camera, so had to use the cell phone camera to get pics.

 

I was already going to try and find the RM's beore submission, I was just looking for some help on the best way to submit. I'll still probably be ruminating on it for a day or two before submitting.

 

As far as satellite usability - are you talking about virtually nothing visible above 15 degrees from horizon all the way out? Or what radius?

This overpass is pretty exposed, but there is a 7-8 story building about 600 feet away.

 

Klemmer,

Thanks for the invite, I'm sure we'll be in touch. I've noticed many of your recoveries in the area. I've found one that you discovered nearby that USPSQD couldn't. I find OC, particularly my southern OC, seems to have no respect for BM's they seem to be destroyed without reporting.

 

Have you found a way to get details of OCS data in bulk? Like paperless, or do you have to look them all individually? It becomes very time consuming.

[Bill93]

>virtually nothing visible above 15 degrees

 

All the way around you with only minor exceptions allowed. To get a super-accurate satellite measurement they want to track the birds across the sky uninterrupted from nearly horizon to horizon. But 80 ft high and 600 ft away is ok because that is only about 8 degrees above horizontal.

[+Klemmer]

Hey Rumpled:

I would say that building will make the mark unusable for GPS. I'm guessing the building might be above the 15 degree limit? As noted above, a few small things above 15 degrees is OK (a skinny tree, a lightpole). A 7 - 8 story building in the 15 degree area - nope.

OCS: You mean Orange County Surveyor? Interesting data there at times, but pretty clunky as a website. I check it sometimes if I accidently find a benchmark not in the NGS database (many of them are not), just for fun. No, I haven't found a bulk download, but I'm not sure what I would do with it if I did find one. No incentive to look for county marks not in NGS. I think I'll stick with NGS benchmarks with something like 22,179 or so in the 6 closest SoCal counties to me. LOTS to do! We are in what we used to call (in the less PC days) a "target rich environment"!

See ya sometime! I'm saving my benchmarking strength for the Poker Run. Off to bed soon, get up early-early tomorrow & hit the mountain bike trail (Chino Hills SP) before it gets too hot!. Maybe a geocache or two if I don't have to look too hard. Found all the benchmarks in the park already, I think.

Edited August 4, 2007 by Klemmer & TeddyBearMama

[+Rumpled]

OK, I submitted it as follows.

Changes to description as follows.

The city of El Toro is now the city of Lake Forest and the community of Leisure World is now the city of Laguna Woods. Canada Avenue is now Lake Forest Drive.

 

Both reference marks recovered in good condition.

 

All marks have a tilde over the N in CANADA.

 

I didn't put a comment about the size of the median because the median is about 15 feet wide but the mark is about 2 feet from the edge.

I also put don't know for the GPS.

 

I'll leave those details for the pros to decide.

 

It did not allow me to use the ~ character which I was using for the tilde.

 

 

Klemmer,

I agree with the clunkiness of the OCS site, but I run into sooo many of their benchmarks that I've started using it and Waymarking them.

 

Thanks all.

[+Rumpled]

Well, after all my concerns and edits; it was accepted as above.

 

http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_pid.prl/1

 

Kinda cool seeing my info go into a national database.

34 years after the last submission when monumented.

Kinda like the feeling I've gotten when I've been published, but I'd wager even less people will see this.

[+seventhings]

Rumpled -

 

Good job, well-done.

 

Will

 

p.s. - now, prepare yourself and your loved ones for a wicked onset of the salted-peanut syndrome.

[+frex3wv]

Congrats Rumpled!

 

Hunt on!