Knees and long walks

[markandlynn]

After i have walked for a long time say 7 hours my left knee starts to get really painfull, i use a knee brace but this is tight and gets uncomfortable.

 

My physio says its just wear and tear but i dont want to give up walking.

 

Anyone else suffer and what do you do.

 

NB feel free to mention your own aches and pains

[+TotemLake]

For the short term, I go with Aleve or Tylenol for the pain.

 

For long term, it's about taking the right vitamins and supplements to lubricate your joints.

 

Glucosamine is supposed to be good for the joints but you also want to look into taking Omega3 fats. Omega3 fatty acids are a specific type of fatty acid and are found mainly in fatty, cold-water fish, like tuna, salmon, sardines, mackerel, and lake trout. Flaxseed oil also is rich in the omega-3 fatty acids, but a few studies suggest that flaxseed oil may promote the growth of prostate cancer in men.

 

I've taken both, but prerfer the oils I can gain from eating fish. I have noticed my need for pain relievers has gone down after including glucosamine and more fish in my diet.

[hwyhobo]

Anyone else suffer and what do you do

Occasionally. A couple of old injuries tend to surface when I overdo it. For me hiking poles help quite a bit, but ultimately I have to relax my walking regimen a little for several days, then it gets better.

[+TrailGators]

My knees don't bother me but my Abductor Longus tendon (see below) starts to get sore when I hit the 5-6 mile mark on hikes. When I get to 10 miles it gets really sore. It's been bugging me for about a year and doesn't seem to ever get better. I take Advil for it and it helps.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2007 by TrailGators

[+Mule Ears]

- Strength exercises for the quads, such as squats and lunges, can make a huge improvement in your knee comfort.

 

- Have you tried different shoes? Shoes or boots that are too heavy, too restrictive or ill-fitting can strain your knees and supporting muscles.

 

- Ever really examined your walking style (gait)? An over-long stride can cause knee pain.

 

- If hills contribute to your knee troubles, trekking poles can be an immediate answer. They're great for reducing knee strain on steep descents.

 

I've had knee pain in the past, but seem to have it licked for now. I cast around for awhile before I found my ideal exercise, though I hesitate to recommend it to anyone else: barefoot windsprints in deep, loose sand. I've also changed my footgear from heavy, restrictive boots to sandals.

 

That said, seven hours is pretty decent walking endurance. At 2-3mph, that's 14 to 21 miles of potential range. Not too shabby!

[+briansnat]

Glucosamine is supposed to be good for the joints

 

Glucosamine and Chondroitin have worked wonders for me. I've led a pretty active life with hiking, soccer, softball, volleyball, etc... and I've been heavier than I should be for about the past 15years, so my knees have taken a pounding.

 

It started catching up with me about two years ago. It started with my left knee throbbing after a day of hiking, then both knees, but the left a lot worse. Then it started happening while I was hiking, to where I had to cut short some hikes. Hey, I'm only 49, not ready for the rocking chair yet.

 

I decided to try Glucosamine and Chondroitin. My dad was using it before he had knee replacement surgery and said it helped some.

 

The stuff isn't cheap (about $35 for a month's supply), so I was hesitant. It doesn't work right away either, but I took it as directed and it started to kick in after about 2 months. The knees feel great now. No pain at all.

Now if only I can get something for my heel pain .

[Tahosa and Sons]

I just wear some ACE knee wraps and take a pill when I get home. No problem after a nice 8 mile cache maintenance hike today.

[+seattlegeekgrrrlz]

I had a bit of an overactive youth resulting in two knee surgeries (same knee) and now the beginnings of arthritis. I'm not that old, but not having cartilage and keeping active does take it's toll after awhile.

 

That being said, best remedies for me:

- strengthen muscles that support the knees and keep working on overall flexibility

- start the Aleve (or anti-inflammatory of choice) before starting out and continue after

- ice as soon as possible after activity

- definitely check out trekking poles - not just a walking stick. On my last hike I tried using two poles on the way back down and it was amazing the difference it made.

 

- a much more expensive solution - I now have a custom knee brace that helps take pressure off the side of the knee with no cartilage, plus helps with the slight instability due to no cartilage and loosening up ACL reconstruction. It works great, but thank goodness it was covered by insurance.

 

I also take glucosamine, etc.

 

A couple of my friends have had a less severe problems. One was able to relieve the pain by wearing different shoes. Another found that the arch of her foot was falling as she walked, which in turn threw off the knees. She ended up finding that the "Superfeet" insoles, which provide lots of arch support, really helped.

 

Anyway, enough from me. Good luck with resolving the problem!

[+DonB]

After i have walked for a long time say 7 hours my left knee starts to get really painfull, i use a knee brace but this is tight and gets uncomfortable.

 

My physio says its just wear and tear but i dont want to give up walking.

 

Anyone else suffer and what do you do.

 

NB feel free to mention your own aches and pains

I don't think I have a problem with my knees, after a long walk my right leg starts hurting just under the knee on the front of my leg. I have been told it's a shin splint and the way to help it is to strengthen the calf muscles but I'm not quite sure what's the best exercise to do that.

[hwyhobo]

I have been told it's a shin splint and the way to help it is to strengthen the calf muscles but I'm not quite sure what's the best exercise to do that.

It might be a question of technique. I used to get that when I jogged. I adjusted my technique to rely more on muscles when landing and to have a smoother "shove" forward (it's hard to explain in writing), and it went away. I don't get that when hiking.

[+Cache'n'Carey]

...the way to help it is to strengthen the calf muscles but I'm not quite sure what's the best exercise to do that.

 

Calf raises - the easiest/cheapest way to do them around the house is to stand with the balls of your feet on a 2x4 or thick book (make sure it is close enough for you to hold on to something with your hands to steady yourself), then slowly raise up on to your toes. Lower your heels without allowing them to touch the floor, then raise up on your toes again. Repeat until it burns. If you want to build more muscle, hold weights in your hands if you don't have any balance issues. As your calves become stronger and the exercise becomes easier, raise the height so you get a better stretch when you lower your heels. You can do them on a step, too, but I wouldn't go that high unless you could use your hands to balance yourself. We don't need any twisted ankles!

[hwyhobo]

Calf raises - the easiest/cheapest way to do them around the house

Interesting, that has been my favorite (out of necessity) exercise on long-distance flights. Easy to do, and restores some circulation in your legs. That, and 45° pushups in the cramped area next to the exits.

Edited August 7, 2007 by hwyhobo

[TheScumbag]

I have lots of knee and back problems. The best thing that I have discovered is trekking poles. After I got over the idea of looking like a geek trying to ski a trail, I experimented with a couple ski poles. I did not notice a difference right away, but when I stopped using them to walk a distance, the benefits were immediately obvious. The stress on the knees, back, and other areas see immediate relief. If you are not sure, just experiment with ski poles or other poles (not a hiking staff as there is a difference with how the trekking poles work together).

 

Having since purchased a set of poles I have found that those hiking with me want to take them away and I usually end up losing them to many different people by the end of the day (scout troop). You don’t need the expensive poles found at high end stores, the SwissGear poles at Walmart work just fine and will hold a LOT of weight without collapsing. Mine have been used on many tough trails. There are lots of sites on the internet as to how to use them (it takes a little while to develop a rhythm to using them, but it comes quickly).

 

You won’t be sorry.

[+GPSTrucker]

My pelvis was shattered in a car wreck the end of '04. I have a lot of problems with my right hip now (joint ball was driven through the back of the socket). The supplements mentioned do help some. Poles help a LOT. I use a pole for even short or moderate hikes, I haven't yet worked my way back up to long hikes yet but am getting there.

 

You might also want to consider riding a bicycle to help strengthen the legs. I started riding a recumbent during my recovery from the wreck and still ride it a lot. When I am home from the road I use it as my sole means of transportation and it really helps build up the legs, not to mention your wind. I also carry a folding bicycle in the truck with me and try to spend some time riding it several times a week. Cycling is a good way to build up the leg muscles without impact injuries.

[+Packanack]

I learned from bike riding that many of the changes thought to be arthritic changes are actually bursitis. Couple of years back, left hip was so bad at the end of the season of biking that I thought it was give it up time. Dr. diagnosed bursitis and suggested.

 

1.Meloxicam the generic name for MOBIC by prescription. For acute onset symptoms--works like a charm for me. an anti-inflamatory.

 

2. GNC Product ---TriFlex with SAMe , Omega 3 Fish Oil, for preventative daily care. Triflex is glucosamine/chondroitin/sulphur compound. SAMe is some thing that they say helps joints and also improves your mood.

 

B Complex Vitamins every other day , Vitamin D supplement Daily, Calcium Magnesium supplement after sessions of heavy perspiration.

 

3. Be aware of your own limitations and take a break from activity to rest periodically. I was riding every day when I triggered it. Now I do rest days. And I alternate with other activities like hiking and canoeing to not overuse. I always use poles while hiking now.

 

Calcum loss is common in people who ride bikes, they do not realize that they are losing bone density. And it can cause future problems.

[+CurmudgeonlyGal]

Is the bone density loss more than 'normal', or similar to other non-impact/weight bearing types of exercise (swimming, for instance).

 

 

michelle

Edited August 8, 2007 by CurmudgeonlyGal

[+Packanack]

It was more than normal, it was contained within a lenthy article in Bicycling Magazine last year, the theory was that impact exercise such as walking, hiking, jogging, weight training added to bone density and those programs like swimming and cycling, which provide great cardio caused loss of calcium and other bone minerals through perspiration, and the common area for concern was lower back vertebrae and the large pelvic area bones. The link following is not to the article I read, but it has a lot of the same info.Cyling and Bone Density

 

The way to avoid the problem is to vary your workout routine, during the winter, I walk and don't ride, I lift dumbells all year, hiking through Geocaching is a regular activity.

 

For heel pain try rolling the foot over a large soup can as you sit in a chair watching television, roll it back and forth under the foot to strech the plantar tendons. Been there and done that one too. Plantar fascitis.

 

As I get older I find that a lot of problems can be cured, by Rest and Retraint and a $20 co pay to the DR.

Edited August 8, 2007 by Packanack

[+Mule Ears]

Don't want to take this thread too far off-topic, but there's a rebel faction of fitness experts who believe (and can show evidence) that much of what is conventionally done as exercise is wrong and damaging. Distance running and other long-endurance activities: harm the heart, accelerate aging through oxidative damage, deplete bone calcium, increase cancer risk, etc. Body-builder-style weight lifting: builds non-functional tissues, reduces insulin sensitivity (through the supporting dietary practices), potentially harms liver and kidneys, wrecks joints.

 

What do these folks advocate? Short bouts (often less than 20 minutes) of extremely intense exercise using no or low-to-moderate weight with fast acceleration. Stuff like sprinting, bodyweight squats, pullups, pushups, etc. Ample rest. Low-intensity activities like hiking and walking on recovery days. And a radically lower intake of sugar and carbs, higher intake of healthy fats.

 

I've reformed my workouts to follow this pattern (mostly; can't reduce carbs as much as I'd like), and have really benefited. If you're curious, www.crossfit.com and www.arthurdevaney.com.

[+Isonzo Karst]

A recumbent bike did wonderful things for my right knee after I'd broken it (bearing surface of the tibia) and mangled & tore the connective ligaments. Recumbent bikes isolate the quads more than regular bikes. Not as good for working the whole body, but great for cranky knees. A dedicated human being could do assorted weight training for this(extensions, hack squats) but the 'bent is fun.

 

Glucosamine and Chondroitin to help with cartilage repair.

[markandlynn]

Some usefull stuff here.

 

I do suppose that 12 - 14 miles is not bad going before it hurts ! ive got some glucosamine (never heard of it before this) will see how that helps me out.

 

I will also try shortening the walking stride as i tend to race ahead of the rest of the family and then wait for them to catch up.

 

Allready got the walking poles but may try to get a pair rather than the using just the one.

[crainsworth]

Get some nordic treking poles they are supose to take some 30% of strain of your legs and feet. I find I feel much fresher after walking with them.

 

LEKI

Komperdell’s

Black Diamond

 

They all make good ones.

 

Maybe test with some old ski poles and see if it helps at all then get some good ones.

[+briansnat]

ive got some glucosamine (never heard of it before this) will see how that helps me out.

 

Take it every day and you will see results in about 4-8 weeks. The stuff is amazing.

Edited August 15, 2007 by briansnat

[+seattlegeekgrrrlz]

 

Allready got the walking poles but may try to get a pair rather than the using just the one.

 

Oh- most definitely try hiking with two poles. It really makes a difference. I was hiking with one and tried two. Totally different, as far as the knees go anyway.

Edited August 16, 2007 by seattlegeekgrrrlz

[+briansnat]

 

Allready got the walking poles but may try to get a pair rather than the using just the one.

 

Oh- most definitely try hiking with two poles. It really makes a difference. I was hiking with one and tried two. Totally different, as far as the knees go anyway.

 

It is. I was backpacking a few weeks ago and had a nasty fall and snapped one of my trekking poles. Had to go the rest of the way with only one. That second pole makes a very big difference for balance, stability and for reducing impact on the knees.

[mtbikernate]

I have some lingering knee issues from playing soccer entirely too much in my youth. By the time I was a junior in high school (bout 17), I had to do a lot of physical therapy because it was painful walking from one class to another.

 

I did PT for about 9months and I had to cut out the high impact stuff pretty significantly. It took a couple years of taking it easy on high impact activity before I could really notice improvement. And that was when I was in college, so I was still healing pretty quickly. If you're later in life, not healing quite that fast, it would take longer.

 

I also took up cycling so I could still exercise, but not trash my knees so much.

 

It helps, but I still manage some soreness. Right now, I find that the more I exercise, the longer it takes for soreness to appear. That applies to exercise in general...high or low impact. Obviously, soreness appears sooner with high impact exercise.

 

I tried the glucosamine/chondroitin route for a couple of months, and I didn't really notice a lot of improvement. I guess my knee issues just aren't severe enough to warrant it just yet.

 

For me, exercise is a good preventive measure, and when it does hurt, I just take a couple ibuprofen and I'm fine. I can hike 15miles/day without encountering soreness, so I'm happy.

[+Isonzo Karst]

I tried the glucosamine/chondroitin route for a couple of months, and I didn't really notice a lot of improvement. I guess my knee issues just aren't severe enough to warrant it just yet.

 

It may never help you. glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate compounds can aid your body in cartilage repair. Or not. Your soreness issues may have nothing to do with thinning cartilage.

 

The first good studies I recall on glucosamine/chondroitin were done on dogs. They were true double blind studies - the dogs hips were x-rayed before and after study and evaluated by radiologists. There was a control group fed a placebo and a study group fed the supplement. I don't remember the time frame, but it was at least a couple of months. Many in the group receiving the real supplement showed increased cartilage thickness in the hip socket discernible in the x-rays. But the amount of improvement was variable, and not all subjects responded.

 

NIH released a bunch of money for a good study to be done on humans. I haven't seen any results yet. I have seen additional studies on horses with similar results to those in dogs. Some animals will not see any benefit, some will, the amount varies. There doesn't appear to be any harm, except the cost of the supplement.

[mtbikernate]

 

It may never help you. glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate compounds can aid your body in cartilage repair. Or not. Your soreness issues may have nothing to do with thinning cartilage.

 

Oh, I know that when I was in high school, the cartilage in my knees was pretty well trashed. I went to an orthopedic surgeon and everything before I ended up in physical therapy. Now what I don't know is the current condition of the cartilage in my knees. I can only assume that they are much better since I have significantly less pain (let's just say that at my worst, I was unable to stand for more than an hour or so whether I had short breaks or not...now I can stand as long as I have to, up to several hours between breaks). I did notice a slight improvement, but like I said, any pain I have now is mostly just uncomfortable rather than truly painful.

[+coggins]

Picked up a case of this at Costco and will see how it goes.

[+ergomaniac]

After 7 years of football followed by 30 years of Taekwondo, my knees are fairly well worn. I've tried Glucosamine but it didn't help me (I've had cartilage removed from both knees so maybe I don't have enough left to repair!). I've read that glucosamine definitely builds cartilage in animals but for some reason isn't that effective in humans. It has been suggested that it has an analgesic effect in humans which may explain the relief in swelling and pain (but Advil would do that and it's cheaper).

 

I've found that strength training has really helped and I took up indoor rowing a few years ago and that seemed to make the biggest difference. I think that rowing is ideal for dodgy knees because you get the full range of knee motion without weight bearing (ie. squats are a known killer for cartilage). With rowing, the muscles still get an incredible workout (really helps with endurance) but without the load. I also cycle every day but I find it actually aggravates my knees and I usually stop riding a few weeks before a backpacking trip.

 

Being a gram counter (not ultra-light yet but getting there... that's been the best thing for my knees), I've been a hold out on using trekking poles but this thread (and my nagging hiking buddies) have convinced me I'm just being stupid... my next trip will include poles!

Edited August 27, 2007 by ergomaniac

[+Hula Bum]

I've got horrible knees and trekking poles have made the biggest difference for me. Now my arms and shoulders are sore, but I can still walk at the end of the day.

[markandlynn]

Ok two weeks of walking in scotland i have a sore knee but no more severe reaction and most importantly no pain during the whole two weeks other than aching legs.

 

Used two poles all the time and a knee brace and only used ibuprofen when we went up Ben Nevis (10hour walk)

 

I am checking with my health insurance to see if i can get an MRI done on the knee to see if it is full of debris a few people klynn deals with at work (policemen) have had thier knees cleaned out of small particles and its made a big difference to them.

 

Many thanks for all the advice.

 

Have a look at our profile page for the photos etc its well worth it.

 

We even had a total cloud inversion

[+Mule Ears]

"Smackerdeness!"

 

The pix are cool. Weird weather, though. What are those strange clumps of vapor in the sky?

[markandlynn]

"Smackerdeness!"

 

The pix are cool. Weird weather, though. What are those strange clumps of vapor in the sky?

 

Sheep of course