What can be done about a TB collector?

[WI_Robin]

I have a lot of coins out in caches and I know sometimes they will go missing. Coins get lost, caches get muggled - stuff happens. When a coin has not been moving for over a month I e-mail the holder, or the finders of a cache that the coin was placed in and ask about the coin. I usually get some kind of reply.

 

My Serenity geocoin has been being held hostage since 11/14/06. I have sent the "coin-napper" several polite e-mails inquiring about the status of the coin. I ask that if the coin is missing let me know so I can mark it as such. I do this about every other month and have yet to get a responce. This is an active geocacher who has found over 1300 caches and has been caching since 2003.

 

When I looked at the other trackables that he has logged I noticed he doesn't own any trackables and that of the trackables that he has logged he has been holding 8 other geocoins, 2 green jeeps and 2 TB's hostage as well . What really kills me is that he lives relatively close to me - just the next state over and has found one of my caches when he was in town visiting relatives............................ You would hope that you would at least answer the e-mail of someone you may meet at an event some day, even is the answer is that the coin is lost!!

 

Is there any recourse here?

[+Knight2000]

Is there any recourse here?

Nothing that i know of.

 

Sometimes when this happens people make a public bookmark called "My Stolen Coins" or something like that.

 

I am not sure of specifics on how to do that, but i have heard of it.

[+dflye]

Make sure that the email address you are sending to is one that the person actually reads. I've found a number of people have an email address associated with their GS profile that is rarely, if ever, checked.

[keewee01]

Good luck. I hope you have some luck with this!!

[WI_Robin]

Well, if e-mail doesn't work I can always post a note on his TB hotel cache page. 12 people have that one on their watch list .

[+Nero]

maybe post the tb's coin's here so we can see them and out the foul word removed by moderator person.

 

maybe they will see this thread or at least someone who knows this cacher may see it and say something to them.

Edited August 2, 2007 by Eartha

[+wutzebear]

Well, if e-mail doesn't work

Are you sure that guy got your mail? When you send your mailadress with the mail, many providers will classify your mail as spam, as the groundspeaks mailserver is not sending 100% RFC-conform mails.

 

When my first mail isn't answered, i send a second one, with my mailadress in the text, but with that box "I want to send my email address along with this message." unchecked.

 

You could also wait for the next event he's likely to attend and post your note there.

Edited August 2, 2007 by wutzebear

[+lindsychris]

Well, unfortunately, there is nothing that CAN be done. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't try....

 

I guess your emails might not be getting through. I think I'd post a note on one of his owned cache pages saying that you have been trying to get ahold of him for x amount of time, and ask him to email you.

 

I would also keep sending the emails...every other month is too long for me. We have a TB that's being held hostage and the hostage taker gets an email from us every week asking for it to be released, mailed back to us postage paid, or let us know and we'll mark it as missing.

 

It's frustrating--especially when it's been SO long and you know the person is still caching!

[+GeekBoy.from.Illinois]

I can think of several things you could try, but I can not guarantee any of them to work, or to even be "good" ideas.

 

First off, as you commented, you could post a note to the cache they took it from stating that it was removed and the cacher has not dropped it since that date in spite of your repeated attempts to contact them.

 

You might try checking with the cache owner where the coin was removed to see if they can contact the cacher for you. They might know them and be able to contact them for you.

 

You might check the caches they visit to see if you can find another cacher who might know them and try to have that cacher contact them for you. This method might work better if you can find someone else who they mention or mentions them in a cache log.

 

You post a note on a cache they own asking if they have gotten your messages you have left them and ask them to contact you. You could even step it up a bit and comment in your note that it is about your coin they have been holding for 10 months.

 

If you get desperate, you could try contacting Groundspeak to have their account disabled for "stealing" coins. Groundspeak will disable/ban accounts of known coin thieves, so they might work with you especially if you have tried several other routes with no response or negative response. This latter might at least force them to notice that "something isn't right"...

[+Cornerstone4]

This is really frustrating...

 

I just looked through his profile...<link removed by moderator>

 

If you go to his trackables page, not only is he holding a lot of jeeps and coins, if you look at all of the yellow jeeps for instance, he was the last holder, and they were all dumped in one of his archived caches, and then marked as missing.

 

Gee, what a coincidence.

Edited August 3, 2007 by Flying Spaghetti Monster

[CinemaBoxers]

Well... I would (if in your situation) post a note to every one of his cache hides requesting he release your coin back into the wild in a cache he does not own! That ought to get his attention. And if you don't hear back from him, post again and again. 2x/3x a week should do it! I say start an "Every other day post".

 

~J

[+BlueDeuce]

Well... I would (if in your situation) post a note to every one of his cache hides requesting he release your coin back into the wild in a cache he does not own! That ought to get his attention. And if you don't hear back from him, post again and again. 2x/3x a week should do it! I say start an "Every other day post".

 

~J

 

That would also be considered harassment which will get you in trouble with the man. (or frog)

[+Cav Scout]

Now that the accused persons name is known to all and the point has been made clear you are upset about your TB, I ask that the moderator close the thread before it gets ugly... I feel your pain but that is one of the things you have to deal with when you release a TB.

[+gypsyg8r]

Since most of his active caches are in Minnesota have you posted anything to the local forum asking if anyone has contact with him?

[+Mr.Explorer3]

A lot of effort to go through for a geocoin, but, you could make a TB with his picture with info and send it out to track down the person in question. Placing wanted posters at the area caches will help also. JK

[+The Amigos]

There is a cacher in Oklahoma that has a HUGE collection of Jeep TB's (probably 20 or more). He does take them to events to be "Discovered", but I still disagree with this. They need to travel from cache to cache so that everybody can enjoy them. At least, they haven't been reported as lost, but to me, that's what they are.

 

I don't think others should "collect" what was meant for a whole community to enjoy.

[+tom4props]

I'm not sure much can be done about TB/geocoin "Sloths" except to email them and ask them to move the TB/geocoin on. If they are "newbies", it is entirely possible that they do not yet understand how TBs and coins work. Send them a link to GC.com's trackable pages: How to use a Travel Bug and/or How to log a Geocoin.

 

Remember sugar goes down easier than vinegar, so try to remain calm and helpful. If it's someone who is really determined to keep (steal) a TB or coin, there really isn't a whole lot you are going to be able to do about it.

 

How to use a Travel Bug

http://www.geocaching.com/track/howto.aspx

 

How to log a Geocoin

http://www.geocaching.com/track/howtogeocoin.aspx

[+Cornerstone4]

There is a cacher in Oklahoma that has a HUGE collection of Jeep TB's (probably 20 or more). He does take them to events to be "Discovered", but I still disagree with this. They need to travel from cache to cache so that everybody can enjoy them. At least, they haven't been reported as lost, but to me, that's what they are.

 

I don't think others should "collect" what was meant for a whole community to enjoy.

 

Agreed.

 

Especially when the items that they are collecting were purchased by individuals that intended for them to actually travel.

[+Droo]

Here's the guy.... With a little PhotoShop a fun Wanted Poster could be doctored up and placed in HIS caches.

<image removed by moderator>

Edited August 3, 2007 by Flying Spaghetti Monster

[+Cornerstone4]

Hey...I didn't know Taylor Hicks was a geocacher!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh wait....I guess that isn't him after all.

 

[+tw3nty3ight]

Hey...I didn't know Taylor Hicks was a geocacher!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh wait....I guess that isn't him after all.

 

[+larry739]

Here's the guy.... With a little PhotoShop a fun Wanted Poster could be doctored up and placed in HIS caches.

<image removed by moderator>

 

Hey I have been to that spot. It is on the Miracle Mile on Michigan Avenue in Chicago. I left this note on his TB cache page:

 

<link removed by moderator>

Edited August 3, 2007 by Flying Spaghetti Monster

[+AtlantaGal]

Hey...I didn't know Taylor Hicks was a geocacher!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh wait....I guess that isn't him after all.

 

 

LMAO!

[+PJPeters]

By golly, I spent the money on the coin, if I wanted to let it collect dust, I'd leave it on my desk.

 

I feel your pain. I've got the same problem with a couple of my coins. Unfortunately, once you've put the coin/TB out there, it's pretty well fair game. Not that its right, but...

[+JeePSer]

Hey...I didn't know Taylor Hicks was a geocacher!

 

Just one more reason for me not to like Taylor Hicks.

 

Soul Patrol

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

All, let's remember that posting images of others who are being ACCUSED of something is a no-no.

 

What we have is a situation where a few people think that they know what is going on. No proof.

 

Your best bets are:

1) Contact Groundspeak if you can prove that there is an issue and hope that it's enough for them to take action

 

2) Realize that some of your coins/TBs will go missing through loss, damage or theft. Not a pretty thing to accept, but necessary nonetheless

 

Public floggings are not allowed when there is only one side of the story and no interaction with the other party. I'm sure that some folks can figure out who the person is, but posting links to their profile, etc. is not allowed.

 

If you want to continue this discussion as a general "how do we deal with coin thieves", please feel free to do so.

[+Nero]

Well, my removed by moderator word wasn't foul in any way, i think scum is very fitting. but...

 

From looking at the profile, it seems to be an active cacher, but also a TB and coin thief, a lot of travelers are in there possesion or were and are now in archived caches they own. I guess one word i can think of to describe them is despicable, they are a premium member, and with no physical proof, Its doubtful Groundspeak will do anything.

[+merkman]

When my coins go missing I update the coin page.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=739298

 

When they are found again I update the coin page again.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=755440

 

Hope this helps

[+MustangJoni]

When my coins go missing I update the coin page.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=739298

 

When they are found again I update the coin page again.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=755440

 

Hope this helps

 

I like this idea, and have done it myself. I had someone who had my coin and was taking it to events as part of his collection and letting others discover it. I wrote him several nice emails, to no avail. I finally did that, and it ended up in a cache after the next event. I guess he was kinda embarrassed when his friends went to log something called "MJ's Stolen Geocoin" - I changed it back and it is still traveling!

[+zazth]

We have been caching for less than a year and have encountered similar issues. For instance:

When the Unite For Diabetes TBs came out, my husband sent our address to receive one to release. Unfortunately we neglected to write down the tracking number prior to release. We placed it in a cache near our house but at least a few miles into the park, in December. When the TB did not move, I decided to go and retrieve it. OF course it wasn't there. I checked the TB page and noted only one person had discovered it.

Checked their profile and became very confused. They logged zero finds and only this TB as a discovery. In their "discovered" log they stated that the TB had been to the Library of Congress and then to a soccer game in Portland in January ??? I e-mailed the person and asked if they had the TB in thier physical possession and if they did have it if they could please log it so the miles could be tracked. No response. I tried again with yet another nice e-mail with no response.

Another e-mailed to say he was going to the final goal for this same TB and would take it with him if possible. So I tried e-mailing the other person again. I finally got a response and sent him the other cachers e-mail address to coordinate a delivery of the TB. Now I see the TB is still in an unpublished cache? Seem a bit odd?

I won't even begin to list how many times I have been e-mailed about missing coins that I had either discovered in a cache or placed and then they disappeared. I do however see a common thread besides myself. I suspect a cacher in our area of nabbing coins from caches and then keeping them. But once again I can't prove any of it and I would not even suspect this person if I had not 1)met them in person and 2) caught them in an illegal activity at a cache site.

I am still amazed at how shady people can be. Even some of our own.

[+merkman]

I finally did that, and it ended up in a cache after the next event.

 

Hey it is your coin you can write what what you want on it's page. (within reason of course)

 

What good is an activated geocoin that has stollen writen on it's web page outside a cache?

 

You can't sell it you can't show it to your geocaching friends. I guess you can show it to your non geocaching friends..... as long as they don't become geocachers later.

[+merkman]

I am still amazed at how shady people can be. Even some of our own.

 

Don't sweat it.

 

If any geocacher does an "illegal" activity long enough it becomes blatantly obvious they are the ones doing it. The geocaching community is not that big. We need to police our own when we see others doing something wrong (ie at events or out in the field) We need to talk to them person to person away from the crowd. Not to call them out, but to guide them. Many times it can just be a misunderstanding. If it is bad behavior and enough peers talk to them I don’t think they will stick to geocaching for long.

[+Nero]

I do that as well. i put "STOLEN COIN:coin name" or "STOLEN TB:tb name" in the title.

[+Cav Scout]

Funny thing that you mention saying something in person instead of here. Most of the time all the "words and suggestions" happen here in the forums and never act out in real time. Rarely do you see the people who "type here" say anything to the person they are reffering to when they actually meet, ie a geoevent or out geocaching. Most of the time they "forum subject matter experts" are too nervous to say anything in person and would rather avoid you, that is my personal experience.

 

I am still amazed at how shady people can be. Even some of our own.

 

Don't sweat it.

 

If any geocacher does an "illegal" activity long enough it becomes blatantly obvious they are the ones doing it. The geocaching community is not that big. We need to police our own when we see others doing something wrong (ie at events or out in the field) We need to talk to them person to person away from the crowd. Not to call them out, but to guide them. Many times it can just be a misunderstanding. If it is bad behavior and enough peers talk to them I don’t think they will stick to geocaching for long.

[+zazth]

When I said illegal, I meant ILLEGAL. I shouldn't have to tell any one not to blaze up while sifting through the contents of a cache. And when you are already aware that there are families with children ranging in ages from 4 to 15 caching in your general vicinity, it goes beyond being disrespectful. I have no problem what so ever letting some one know when they are violating the code of conduct. There are those out there who simply do not think about how their actions will affect others nor do they care when confronted.

[+zuma!]

This is really frustrating...

 

I just looked through his profile...<link removed by moderator>

 

If you go to his trackables page, not only is he holding a lot of jeeps and coins, if you look at all of the yellow jeeps for instance, he was the last holder, and they were all dumped in one of his archived caches, and then marked as missing.

 

Gee, what a coincidence.

 

Thanks for pointing this out. I did look at his list of trackables, and it is pretty obvious what is happening here. This gentleman is simply keeping all the coins and jeeps he finds. To what end, who knows???

 

This same gentleman picked up a red jeep at a cache owned by me last week, wrote in his log that he grabbed it, but has not yet logged the jeep out of the cache. Who knows how many trackables he has in his possession that have not been logged, since only the logged ones shows up on his list of trackables???

 

Anyway, I have emailed him without response, and have now posted a note on one of cache pages, in case he is not getting his email, as many here have suggested as a possibility.

 

I have to say frankly, that there is no honest explanation for this behavior, and I feel that Groundspeak should take action. How does one follow up with Groundspeak on this? Frankly, with all the money that Groundspeak makes off of geocoin tracking numbers, they need to do something to police obvious coin thieves.

 

zuma

[+zuma!]

For those interested, the cache that had the red jeep taken and not logged out is GCTMZK.

 

It is a shame that this is another jeep that has likely disappeared into the vapor.

 

zuma

[+BlueDeuce]

How does one follow up with Groundspeak on this?

 

Send an email to contact@geocaching.com

[+Kealia]

I have to say frankly, that there is no honest explanation for this behavior, and I feel that Groundspeak should take action. How does one follow up with Groundspeak on this? Frankly, with all the money that Groundspeak makes off of geocoin tracking numbers, they need to do something to police obvious coin thieves.

 

Let me play Devil's Advocate here: What exactly should Groundsepak do? Don't get me wrong, I understand your frustration as nobody likes to lose travelers, but what is the best outcome you can expect here?

 

Let's say that Groundspeak emails the individual and asks them to please stop stealing things and put back in play all of the coins/TBs that they currently have, he can then:

 

1) Do so and apologize (not likely)

2) Ignore their email as well (likely)

3) Claim he has no idea what they are talking about

 

Now, Groundsepak could threaten to pull his site access if he doesn't, but then what happens?

1) He still ignores the "threat"

2) Groundspeak follows through and now pisses him off to the point where he becomes a cache pirate - stealing more coins, TBs, and caches.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that it's good to know that they are out there, and it sucks when it happens - but there is very little that can actually be done.

 

Sometimes it feels good to vent, so hopefully doing that helped.

[+BlueDeuce]

Let me play Devil's Advocate here: What exactly should Groundspeak do?

 

I hear ya.

 

However, I think people should be complaining to Groundspeak every single time this happens.

 

Yes I do think they can do something about this, eventually. We all might not have the answer at the moment but if it's a problem it needs to be dealt with. Or accepted.

 

Granted I'm not advocating banning every member who doesn't move a coin when requested, it just seems like an issue worth thinking about.

 

 

edit: a/an

Edited August 4, 2007 by BlueDeuce

[+zuma!]

I have to say frankly, that there is no honest explanation for this behavior, and I feel that Groundspeak should take action. How does one follow up with Groundspeak on this? Frankly, with all the money that Groundspeak makes off of geocoin tracking numbers, they need to do something to police obvious coin thieves.

 

Let me play Devil's Advocate here: What exactly should Groundsepak do? Don't get me wrong, I understand your frustration as nobody likes to lose travelers, but what is the best outcome you can expect here?

 

Let's say that Groundspeak emails the individual and asks them to please stop stealing things and put back in play all of the coins/TBs that they currently have, he can then:

 

1) Do so and apologize (not likely)

2) Ignore their email as well (likely)

3) Claim he has no idea what they are talking about

 

Now, Groundsepak could threaten to pull his site access if he doesn't, but then what happens?

1) He still ignores the "threat"

2) Groundspeak follows through and now pisses him off to the point where he becomes a cache pirate - stealing more coins, TBs, and caches.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that it's good to know that they are out there, and it sucks when it happens - but there is very little that can actually be done.

 

Sometimes it feels good to vent, so hopefully doing that helped.

 

No, it is more than just venting. I actually expect Groundspeak to take action. Perhaps I am naive, but with the amount of money they are making off of trackiing numbers, they have a responsibility to maintain the integrity of the game and the movement of coins.

 

As you say, in most cases it would be tough to do much. A smarter thief wouldnt log their find, and then keep the coin. They would just pick em up and not log em or tell anybody, and I am sure there are some folks who do this, and there is not much ya can do about it. This case is different, because:

 

1. There is a written record of the coin thefts, by his own logs.

2. The history of stealing jeeps and coins goes back to 2004, and is ongoing.

3. This is not an inexperienced newbie; rather it is by a guy with over a thousand finds, and who caches regularly.

4. He has been personally contacted about this at an event, and just shrugged it off, neither admitting it or apologizing.

 

What can Groundspeak do?

 

First, I am sure they would want to get his side of the story, and see if there is some kind of extenuating circumstance. Assuming there is none, they should move forward and cancel his access to Groundspeak so that he cannot easily steal more coins.

 

And I agree with your central point, that in most cases not much can be done. But in those cases where there is ample evidence of theft of trackables, that is substantially more than just hearsay, I do believe that Groundspeak has an obligation to act.

 

zuma

[+Kealia]

But act how? They can cancel the membership but that won't stop them from accessing the site and having access to caches or coins. Making this guy mad is only going to make things worse. I by noe means advocate turning a deaf ear to the problem, but I have yet to see a solution that will help the situation.

 

I don't disagree that something should be done - but what is that something?

[+nicolo]

...

 

I don't disagree that something should be done - but what is that something?

Public humiliation!

 

He must be forced to stand on a pile of ammo cans while fellow cachers point at him scornfully, taunting him with the words "I dub thee 'Not a team player!'"

Edited August 5, 2007 by nicolo

[+Wasptor]

Good luck with your caching pirate.

Maybe Jeep would want to follow it up with him, after all, don't they own all the jeeps that are being hijacked?

 

Okay, I don't think Jeep would follow it up, but certainly geocaching.com should be on Jeep's behalf. I'm assuming they paid a lot of money to gc.com for advertising. Surely gc.com would have to ensure that their advertising is getting the message around and be following up in the interest of paying clients.

[+Nero]

...

 

I don't disagree that something should be done - but what is that something?

Public humiliation!

 

He must be forced to stand on a pile of ammo cans while fellow cachers point at him scornfully, taunting him with the words "I dub thee 'Not a team player!'"

 

Nevermind, Not Worth it.

Edited August 5, 2007 by Nero

[+nicolo]

...

 

I don't disagree that something should be done - but what is that something?

Public humiliation!

 

He must be forced to stand on a pile of ammo cans while fellow cachers point at him scornfully, taunting him with the words "I dub thee 'Not a team player!'"

 

Nevermind, Not Worth it.

Yeah, you're right ( lightweights! )

Edited August 5, 2007 by nicolo

[WI_Robin]

I marked my coin as "Stolen" with an explanation on the coin page why it was marked as stolen and almost immediately it got dropped in a cache. I am going to have someone stop at the cache and check it out. I hope it really was released - that would be a great ending to this!!! Thanks for all the comments and support!

[+Sudonim]

But act how? They can cancel the membership but that won't stop them from accessing the site and having access to caches or coins. Making this guy mad is only going to make things worse. I by noe means advocate turning a deaf ear to the problem, but I have yet to see a solution that will help the situation.

 

I don't disagree that something should be done - but what is that something?

 

If the person in question has a high number of cache finds, GC can use the threat of cancelling his membership to bring him around. How many 'high number' cachers would be willing to start from 0 finds?

[+BlueDeuce]

But act how? They can cancel the membership but that won't stop them from accessing the site and having access to caches or coins. Making this guy mad is only going to make things worse. I by noe means advocate turning a deaf ear to the problem, but I have yet to see a solution that will help the situation.

 

I don't disagree that something should be done - but what is that something?

 

If the person in question has a high number of cache finds, GC can use the threat of cancelling his membership to bring him around. How many 'high number' cachers would be willing to start from 0 finds?

 

Threatening someone is never an effective deterrent. Either you reason with them or deny service.

[+nicolo]

I marked my coin as "Stolen" with an explanation on the coin page why it was marked as stolen and almost immediately it got dropped in a cache. I am going to have someone stop at the cache and check it out. I hope it really was released - that would be a great ending to this!!! Thanks for all the comments and support!

I had a very similar situation except that I put a unactivated coin in one of my new caches. It disappeared and I never heard from it again until I activated it, putting "THIS CACHE WAS STOLEN FROM ..." in the name of the coin - a coupla weeks later it appeared in a cache.