+greg1701 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 hi all.. two things tonight.. 1. I'm not sure, but I'm pretty confident that I've never been happier being a FTF when someone else had said a BM was not there.. happened today 0KK1159)... Can I say again how much I enjoy BMarking over Geocaching? 2. My father-in-law (future - getting married in Sept) literally walked over a BM today while we were looking for a Cache.. when I got home it wasn't in the database (but it was in the ScaredyCat Benchmark database)... What to do with the info and photos at this point? Anyone? Do I just let it go? Love this forum... take care all Greg www.denvertvguy.com Quote Link to comment
+msrubble Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Regarding the benchmark you found that is not in the geocaching.com database, this is a FAQ. Besides the option to log it as a waymark, you could report it to the NGS if it is in their database and hasn't been recovered within the last year. This is a helpful thing to do. If you want to report your find to the NGS, you should read a few descriptions to get a feel for how they are worded. Recovery notes are more formal than found it logs. Quote Link to comment
Wintertime Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 What is the "ScaredyCat Benchmark database," Greg? I'd be interested to know more about that. Patty Quote Link to comment
andylphoto Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I believe he is referring to monkeykat's benchmark viewer. It's a very handy tool, and uses the NGS database, although I'm not sure how often the database is updated. I have noticed it doesn't seem to directly pull the data from the NGS database, as recent recoveries are not reflected in the data. Other than that little detail, I have been very pleased with its usefulness. http://benchmarks.scaredycatfilms.com/index.html Quote Link to comment
monkeykat Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I can speak a little to this topic. The benchmark viewer I developed uses the archived shape files that have been generated by the NGS. They are available from their web site, and you can get a whole state as a zip file. When I first got the shape files, back in April of this year, they had last been generated in March 2007, so I thought that the archived files would be updated quite regularly. I expected to upload a new shape file for each state every month or two, and users would get instant gratification as they could watch their discoveries go from white/red to green in the area. Now it is almost 5 months later and the shapefiles haven't been updated, so unfortunately there won't be instant gratification. Its looking like the viewer will be a more recent snapshot of the NGS database, but not as dynamic as I had hoped. I plan on getting this information into my FAQ soon. The previous thread link probably states this, but the original poster has probably found a mark that was put into the database after the Groundspeak snapshot, and before I took my drop from the database. As for new ScaredyCat Benchmark viewer updates, I am working on a script to generate .LOC files from the PIDs you select, so it can be more of a 1 stop location for benchmark hunting. I have gotten tired of looking for marks to find on the viewer, and having to write them down and go to another application or geocaching.com for my LOC files. Hopefully I can get it up some time this week. Quote Link to comment
+frex3wv Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 MonkeyCat: Its a GREAT resource. Thanks very much for doing it! Quote Link to comment
+TheBeanTeam Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 ....What to do with the info and photos at this point? Anyone? Do I just let it go?..... Greg www.denvertvguy.com You could also place a waymark for it in the Waymarking category for US Benchmarks. Quote Link to comment
Wintertime Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I believe he is referring to monkeykat's benchmark viewer. http://benchmarks.scaredycatfilms.com/index.html Oh, okay, yeah, I'm familiar with that. It's very helpful! Patty Quote Link to comment
+greg1701 Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 Regarding the benchmark you found that is not in the geocaching.com database, this is a FAQ. Besides the option to log it as a waymark, you could report it to the NGS if it is in their database and hasn't been recovered within the last year. This is a helpful thing to do. If you want to report your find to the NGS, you should read a few descriptions to get a feel for how they are worded. Recovery notes are more formal than found it logs. Okay, this would be a good time I suppose to ask.. what's the difference between a benchmark and a waymark? Also, how would I know if the benchmark I found is in their database? Greg www.denvertvguy.com Quote Link to comment
Bill93 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 difference between a benchmark and a waymark? For the Groundspeak website, a benchmark is any survey point for which they imported a data sheet from the National Geodetic Survey data base in about 2001. A waymark is any of a great number of things, some of which are survey markers not in their benchmark list.\\ Of course the NGS has continued to add to their data base but it is not simple for Groundspeak to update theirs to match so they have not done so. Their benchmark list provides a lot of things to look for as it is. In a more technical sense, a benchmark is strictly a point for which an accurate elevation is known. Probably a majority of the data sheets describe an elevation benchmark. The rest are horizontal control points, which the professionals do not call benchmarks, although the distinction is not maintained on the geocaching site. Quote Link to comment
+Black Dog Trackers Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 greg1701 - Waymarking and Benchmarking are 2 different parts of Groundspeak's collection of sites. The other is of course Geocaching. Benchmarking is based on the NGS database exclusively. Waymarking has over 500 categories of stuff; US Benchmarks being one of them. On Waymarking there is no pre-loaded database like in Benchmarking. Instead, you establish a waymark for a benchmark you find. Later, other people can add their logs and pictures to your waymark of the benchmark. Like in Benchmarking, it is a cool thing when you can be the first finder among us; in the Waymarking side, that's the person who establishes the waymark. Waymarking, without being constricted to a preloaded database allows related items like cadastral marks, just so long as they are disks. If you want to find out whether someone has already established a waymark for a benchmark, in the US Benchmarks Waymarking site, click on "additional search options", then click on the tab for "coordinate search". Don't be surprised if you see several benchmarks near a particular location. Since the US Benchmarks category includes disks from many databases, there are sometimes several within a mile. I hope that and Bill93's excellent post answers your questions. Quote Link to comment
+greg1701 Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 I hope that and Bill93's excellent post answers your questions. This forum is just great. Thanks to all who replied... Greg1701 www.denvertvguy.com Quote Link to comment
+greg1701 Posted August 5, 2007 Author Share Posted August 5, 2007 I've found the Benchmark PID I was wondering about in the first place.. its DF4267... but there is no corresponding page on Geocaching... should I inform anyone, or do they even care or not update their database that often? Thanks.. Greg Quote Link to comment
+Black Dog Trackers Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 greg1701 - It's a static database, 7 or 8 years old now, and there's no provision for updates via notifications. Quote Link to comment
ArtMan Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 Just to amplify a bit what Black Dog Trackers said — The database of benchmarks you see on Geocaching.com is a snapshot of the NGS database from about 2001. (NGS used to sell the data on CD-ROMS, but they gave up the practice in favor of serving the data online since the CDs were outdated almost as soon as they were finalized.) NGS, on the other hand, has been continuously updating their database. Your mark, which was monumented in 2000, probably wasn't submitted to NGS until months - maybe a year or two - later. NGS has rigorous requirements for documenting the marks in its system, and it takes some time to get the paperwork done. (Actually, I have no idea if its submitted on paper any more; possibly it's all done electronically now.) Likely this mark just missed being in the Geocaching.com database. There has been some indication that there may be an update to the benchmark database on geocaching.com. The site's parent company, Groundspeak, has apparently chosen to focus on other areas of its business. I don't know exactly how many people participate in benchmarking as compared with geocaching, but I reckon that those of us who prefer looking for geodetic monuments as opposed to trinkets in Tupperware are a distinct minority. Accordingly, we are happy for what we've got. You might be interested in having a look at the FAQ page, which was recently updated, especially the section on Benchmarks not in the database -ArtMan- Quote Link to comment
Wintertime Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 There has been some indication that there may be an update to the benchmark database on geocaching.com. Has there? Oh, I hope so! Patty Quote Link to comment
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