Who do you ask for a Walmart-type cache?

[+Team Brewster]

I am trying to figure this out. Say I want to hide a micro in a shopping center, like on a light post or guard rail in the parking lot, either a Walmart or some other similar center. Who do you actually ask for permission to hide the cache? In the Walmart place it might be obvious, but what about a shopping center that has multiple "big name" stores - who takes precedence when asking permission?

 

I can't find anything in the guidelines other than "ask for permission" and I want to do things right when placing our first caches!

 

Thanks,

Ivy (Team Brewster)

[+stepshep]

 

Usualy start with the local manager, then if you have to move up to local president, headquarters ect. But I'm sure you can be much more creative in hiding places than a super center!

 

Forgot to add the smilies:

Edited July 27, 2007 by stepshep

[+Team Brewster]

Usualy start with the local manager, then if you have to move up to local president, headquarters ect. But I'm sure you can be much more creative in hiding places than a super center!

 

Well, we are just considering a mixed bag of first caches. I don't think we will do any micros to start with, but we have had a lot of fun with some urban micros and big box store micros, so I am more curious than anything. We'll see how creative we can get!

Edited July 27, 2007 by Team Brewster

[+OEnavigators]

When the parking lot is for one store ask the manager. If it is a mall with several stores just ask the manager of any of them who they lease the property from. That should get you started in the right direction.

Be sure to at least carry a brochure to explain what geocaching is. I got permission for several that way (just couldn't bring myself to place them).

Most managers give you the geo-what? look.

Explain the game and be sure to include CITO so they understand that cachers have a positive impact on the places they visit. Well thats my .02

[+Tsmola]

if you lived in my area and your first hide was a Wal-Mart hide, I'd not only turn around without finding it, I'd automatically put all your future hides on my ignore list.

 

I've noticed they are starting to pop up in my area and I refuse to search for any hidden like that, anyone can find Wal-mart, show me somewhere cool.

 

Aren't most Wal-mart hides done without any permission whatsoever anyway from what I've heard?

?

Edited July 27, 2007 by Tsmola

[+H2OBob]

 

At WM, ask for the store manager. At malls, look for the mall office, or chack with one of the stores to see who owns the place.

 

Thanks for doing it 'right'.

[+StarBrand]

A good rule of thumb I personally use is to ask myself "Why would I want to lead somebody to this spot? Is it something I would be proud to show off? is it scenic, historic, humorous, unknown, out-of-the-way, informational?"

 

If you have trouble answering those - I'd look for a new hide location.

 

Corporate store managers have little or no authority to grant or deny anything being placed on the property. The request will only get passed up the ladder.

[+TrailGators]

A good rule of thumb I personally use is to ask myself "Why would I want to lead somebody to this spot? Is it something I would be proud to show off? is it scenic, historic, humorous, unknown, out-of-the-way, informational?"

 

If you have trouble answering those - I'd look for a new hide location.

 

Corporate store managers have little or no authority to grant or deny anything being placed on the property. The request will only get passed up the ladder.

That's great advice!

[+Thrak]

I am trying to figure this out. Say I want to hide a micro in a shopping center, like on a light post or guard rail in the parking lot, either a Walmart or some other similar center. Who do you actually ask for permission to hide the cache? In the Walmart place it might be obvious, but what about a shopping center that has multiple "big name" stores - who takes precedence when asking permission?

 

I can't find anything in the guidelines other than "ask for permission" and I want to do things right when placing our first caches!

 

Thanks,

Ivy (Team Brewster)

 

The question of "who to ask" regarding a Walmart cache is easy to answer. Ask yourself why in the world you want to place a Walmart lamp post skirt cache. As yourself who in the world would find it an interesting cache. Ask yourself if this is the type of cache for which you want to be known.

 

It's really pretty simple.

Edited July 27, 2007 by Thrak

[+HaLiJuSaPa]

Aren't most Wal-mart hides done without any permission whatsoever anyway from what I've heard?

?

 

That's probably true about most hides in general (except in cases like the state parks of most states where you usually have to have a special permit and they rigorously enforce these things and check regularly).

 

Usually, I think someone just puts the Wal-Mart hide there when no one is looking and hopes that finders use stealth and don't get approached by security, etc. (and usually the hide is in an out-of-the-way part of the parking lot where security and muggles won't look anyway) and hope it doesn't get stolen, etc. Often security may just think the "game" is silly and cute when explained to them and look the other way and not take the cache away. Since I'm in the major metro area that probably has the LEAST amount of Wal-Marts per capita (big as it is), I haven't seen too many of these hides, though other lamppost skirts ones do exist, one person creatively even had a "regular" cache box with swag in a Trader Joe's lot lamppost skirt but it got stolen right away. That I thought was unique!

 

Although I will certainly look for such a cache if it is simple and I'm there to do something anyway, my attitude toward hiding micros is that there both should be a reason that you want someone to be there and a micro is the only cache that will logically go there. For example, there's a very wide-open park with a great marine view that has almost no good hiding places for a box, so I put a micro there. Or there's a nice, open but mostly unknown park in the Bronx across the street from where I lived from birth until age 4 that I put a cache in, but the small swag boxes I've put there have been plundered and/or stolen repeatedly, while a log only "bring your own writing instrument" micro has stayed in the same spot for 8 months and counting.

 

Micros are great for first time hiders in that they're simple to create and setup, but if you want my advice put it in a park, not Wally World. Good luck!

[+Knight2000]

I am impressed at your concern to do this properly. That is really cool.

if you lived in my area and your first hide was a Wal-Mart hide, I'd not only turn around without finding it, I'd automatically put all your future hides on my ignore list.

 

I've noticed they are starting to pop up in my area and I refuse to search for any hidden like that, anyone can find Wal-mart, show me somewhere cool.

 

Aren't most Wal-mart hides done without any permission whatsoever anyway from what I've heard?

?

You are assuming all walmart hides are the same type of mindless hide. If you are inventive you could make a good or even great walmart hide. So in the end, you would be the one missing out.

 

Some people like urban hides. An urban walmart hide is better than no hide at all.

 

Sure many are with no permission. That doesnt make it right though.

A good rule of thumb I personally use is to ask myself "Why would I want to lead somebody to this spot? Is it something I would be proud to show off? is it scenic, historic, humorous, unknown, out-of-the-way, informational?"

I agree to a point. If it isnt a great spot then i would want the hide to be great. Like a really inventive hide. Of course i wouldnt want a really inventive hide behind a dumpster.

[+Lotho]

Stop advising them on what to do. They will probably hide the cache regardless of your thoughts and they dont help, so dont bother. They asked for whom they need to get permission off of, not whether they should or should not hide the cache there.

[+Team Brewster]

Thank you for your response. I was starting to get a little discouraged.

 

I have seen some Walmart (and other stores, I was just using that as an example) hides that were pretty interesting and had puzzles or other interesting facets that made them more than just locating a guard rail. I live and work in an urban area, and so I may end up doing some micros, though I am still not sure.

 

More than anything else, though, I was trying to get some more information on the part of the rules that says to ask for permission. I am sort of "fact finding" right now so that when I do create some caches, I know I am doing things the right way.

 

I am impressed at your concern to do this properly. That is really cool.

if you lived in my area and your first hide was a Wal-Mart hide, I'd not only turn around without finding it, I'd automatically put all your future hides on my ignore list.

 

I've noticed they are starting to pop up in my area and I refuse to search for any hidden like that, anyone can find Wal-mart, show me somewhere cool.

 

Aren't most Wal-mart hides done without any permission whatsoever anyway from what I've heard?

?

You are assuming all walmart hides are the same type of mindless hide. If you are inventive you could make a good or even great walmart hide. So in the end, you would be the one missing out.

 

Some people like urban hides. An urban walmart hide is better than no hide at all.

 

Sure many are with no permission. That doesnt make it right though.

A good rule of thumb I personally use is to ask myself "Why would I want to lead somebody to this spot? Is it something I would be proud to show off? is it scenic, historic, humorous, unknown, out-of-the-way, informational?"

I agree to a point. If it isnt a great spot then i would want the hide to be great. Like a really inventive hide. Of course i wouldnt want a really inventive hide behind a dumpster.

[+Team Brewster]

Thank you. I found one at a grocery store parking lot the other day and it really just got me thinking about who, if anyone, they had asked about placing it there. My interest here is really in how things work, not whether people think urban micros are acceptable.

 

Stop advising them on what to do. They will probably hide the cache regardless of your thoughts and they dont help, so dont bother. They asked for whom they need to get permission off of, not whether they should or should not hide the cache there.

[+StarBrand]

Thank you. I found one at a grocery store parking lot the other day and it really just got me thinking about who, if anyone, they had asked about placing it there. My interest here is really in how things work, not whether people think urban micros are acceptable.

 

The absolute fact is that 90% or more of these got zero permission. They just got placed.

 

Among those that asked for permission to place such things - I would guess that more than half got told no or got told something along the lines of "I don't care as long as it doesn't cause problems". Of course that really isn't permission at all - when there is a concern, forgetfullness will set in.

 

That is partly why many of us are advising you to re-consider placement. The other reasons for not doing these are stated above.

[+Harry Dolphin]

The only one who can actually give permission is the owner of the land. Not the manager of Walmart, or JC Penney, or even Piggly Wiggly. You would probably have to obtain permission from SuperMallManagers, or PaveParadiseAndBuildAParkingLot. Or, maybe, Vornado. My ShopRite Supermarket can control what happens within the store, but the parking lot is owned by Vornado (from which ShopRite rents the space for the store.)

[+Tsmola]

You are assuming all walmart hides are the same type of mindless hide. If you are inventive you could make a good or even great walmart hide. So in the end, you would be the one missing out.

 

I could care less about the hide, I don't care if it's a 120 mm ammo can in a fake light pole. Wal-marts are not interesting, I don't cache to find Wal-Mart.

 

You said a Wal-Mart cache is better than no cache, I can't disagree more on that one. I could care less about the hide, if it's at a Wal-Mart, it's laziness and it's crappy. That's just the way I feel about them.

[+briansnat]

I rarely have to put my moderator hat on in this forum, but it looks like I need to here.

The OP asked how to obtain permission for these hides, not whether he should do it or if they are interesting.

 

If you would like to provide other advice you can PM the OP or open a new thread.

 

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread (taking hat off).

 

[+red ink]

You are assuming all walmart hides are the same type of mindless hide. If you are inventive you could make a good or even great walmart hide. So in the end, you would be the one missing out.

 

I could care less about the hide, I don't care if it's a 120 mm ammo can in a fake light pole. Wal-marts are not interesting, I don't cache to find Wal-Mart.

 

You said a Wal-Mart cache is better than no cache, I can't disagree more on that one. I could care less about the hide, if it's at a Wal-Mart, it's laziness and it's crappy. That's just the way I feel about them.

ditto on your response, I live in Walmart country NW Arkansas, I've personally seen people walking through

the parking lot and lifting "skirts" without gpser in hand, although there are a couple of hides in N.W. ARK

that have been on the challenging side (to me anyway) but i do not not seek them anymore.I would rather do a 3-4 mile hike and see nature, than find a micro hidden at WalMart. I can promise you 99% are hidden without approval, but i dislike micro's any way. We've become saturated with them in my area and I

contribute to laziness and people in it for the numbers. RED INK

P.S. plug in zip 72762 and look at TRAM LAW (WAL MART) WalMart spelled backwards, you be the judge!

Edited July 28, 2007 by red ink

[+Knight2000]

I could care less about the hide, I don't care if it's a 120 mm ammo can in a fake light pole. Wal-marts are not interesting, I don't cache to find Wal-Mart.

 

You said a Wal-Mart cache is better than no cache, I can't disagree more on that one. I could care less about the hide, if it's at a Wal-Mart, it's laziness and it's crappy. That's just the way I feel about them.

The ones that you know of are not interesting. But just because one is there does not mean that it is lazy. Most are boring, but just because it is there does not mean that it cannot be a good hide. If you were thoughtful you could put a good one there.

 

I would think if the manager knew of the cache and approved or at least didn't mind that it would be acceptable. You would have to use your own judgment i guess.

 

Although most caches of this type are boring and mindless, i like the location as i always need to buy something there.

[Neos2]

In the case of a multiple-store lot, I would first approach the manager/owner of the store it will be located nearest. If they don't have the authority to grant permission, they will tell you who will, and have the contact number. Often the lot belongs to the big box store that serves as the anchor. Strip mall type places without a large anchor may be owned by someone across the country. Even if the lot owner gives you permission, I'd make the nearest store manager/owner aware of the cache. They will be the one a customer would most likely contact about the cache.

 

I know many ofthese types of caches used to be placed without explicit permission, but I'm not so sure that's true any more. More people know about geocaching now, and it's less threatening to managers to be asked to allow a cache. I suspect that is part of the reason some people aren't thrilled to find them--if it has permission it lacks that thrill of being secret. In my local area at least many (most?) caches hidden near stores and restaurants do have permission from the owner or manager.

 

There are real advantages to asking. For one, it allows you to go for a slightly more daring or interesting hide, knowing the cache won't be in danger of being removed. It also gives the store the ability to reassure customers who report seeing cachers behaving oddly in the lot. Being able to watch geocachers try to find the cache also gives the employees something interesting to do while they work.

 

That reminds me, my sister is a manager for a big box store, and she keeps asking me when I'm going to hide one there so she can find it on her way to work one day. I better go see if there is somewhere interesting to do that....

[+Knight2000]

This was a similar interesting thread regarding permission for a Walmart cache.

 

I am impressed when people go out of their way to make a proper hide like Team GeoBlast spoke of in that thread.

[Clan Riffster]

Another angle to consider is if you even need explicit permission to hide a cache in a Wally World parking lot. Groundspeak asks for "adequate" permission, and mostly leaves the interpretation of adequate up to the hider. This is one case where my research and my personal belief are at odds. My personal belief is that no cache should be hidden on commercial property without explicit permission. Ever. It's impolite to play on someone else's private property without their consent.

 

My research tells me the opposite.

 

The American legal system is based upon the English standard of law, in which any activity is lawful unless it is specifically prohibited. Geocaching in and of itself, is a lawful activity. Unless there are prominently displayed signs in the parking lot saying "No Geocaching", then caching in that parking lot must also be legal. Naturally, other jurisdictions may have laws or ordinances against lifting lamp post skirts or rummaging through shrubbery.

[Double Agents]

Yes everything is lawful unless it's unlawful, but if we abuse this too much we might just start seeing the "No Geocaching" signs getting placed. Once those start to appear, it'll be too late and we will have gone too far. A lot of people use the unofficial frisbee rule (if you can play Frisbee there without having to ask, it should be ok to place a cache), you should definately always try and pursue full expressed permission though.

 

I think the first person I'd talk to about getting a Geocache placed at Walmart would be someone in the sporting goods dept, go ask them if they know any places more interesting to visit than a Walmart parking lot.

 

Anyway, you need to talk to the Property Owner, which is not usually anyone involved with the company who has the store on it. If there are any unused store fronts, they'll usually have a phone number to call about leasing; that should get you started on a goose-chase with finding the people you need to ask.