Rash of stolen and destroyed caches..

[+kittyboodles]

Hey everyone,

 

I have some bad news.

 

Someone went around an area and destroyed several caches, then stole all the ammo cans if there were any. Almost all of my caches are down, and a few others within a certain number of miles as well.

 

One cache muggled I can see, here and there, but this was a deliberate thing and included other caches in the area.

 

I am so sad about this that I don't know what to do.

 

Have you all seen something like this happen before where a whole area has been targeted? Why would someone do this? To steal the ammo cans? Do you think it was someone who has the free account? I mean, why would you pay to be a premium member and then do something like this?

 

My caches have been a source of happiness for me and the ones who have found them in the past. But I don't know if I even want to put them back up, what if they come back and destroy these, too?

 

What would you do?

 

Thanks.

[+GEO.JOE]

I have been dealing with this type of situation for four years now in the Shawnee National Forest. I keep replacing them. At one time I started placing two caches for every one of mine that was stolen. I was also helping to replace other caches that were stolen. Two years ago almost every cache in the Shawnee forest was stolen and some were stolen up to 3 times so that kept me busy. I did find some suitable imitation lock n lock container for 50 cent each some lock n locks for $1.30 and ammo cans for $3.00 each so I was not out thousands only hundreds (well not counting gas). Contents were cut to a minimum, mostly log book and a few trinkets. So I had less than $1.00 in replacement caches for others and less than $2 or $4 on my caches. All the caches of one cacher are now gone and likely gone for good, So far this year another cacher has had 4 stolen twice and a new cacher had all 10 of her new caches stolen. I have only had 4 stolen since November, so it feels like a good year . Sometimes, I just place the cache back in the same spot. Most of the time I move it to a new spot, sometimes it is the same listing and sometimes it is a new listing. I have not replaced one with a new cache yet. I am going to look into making earth caches so that there is no box to steel and I can still share the areas with others. I have made them all Members only caches so I can monitor the audit log. However, being able to see who views your cache page does not protect it and just because you can narrow the suspects down to 3 profiles and it is confirmed that all three suspects are the same person, suspicion is not enough for action to be taken. Local law enforcement feel about the same way. So you don't let the thief win and keep placing new caches and hope the thief just gos away some day.

 

I wish you the best.

GEO.JOE

[+minxyy]

I have made them all Members only caches so I can monitor the audit log. However, being able to see who views your cache page does not protect it and just because you can narrow the suspects down to 3 profiles and it is confirmed that all three suspects are the same person, suspicion is not enough for action to be taken. Local law enforcement feel about the same way. So you don't let the thief win and keep placing new caches and hope the thief just gos away some day.

 

I wish you the best.

GEO.JOE

 

so sorry to hear this please don't give up If the culprit can be identified why is geocaching.com not able to take action against the individual and stop their memberaship?

 

Hope that it ends soon and you can get back to the renjoyable task offindiong other peoples caches

(((hugs))))

minxyy

[+kittyboodles]

Thanks so much for the replies and ideas.

 

After emailing with a few local cachers whose ammo cans were also stolen over the last month, it was suggested to me that it might actually be hunters who are using the Geocaching.com website to find caches that state that they are ammo cans in the listing. I really hope that is the case, that these are hunters who are doing this in the area, and not people who are just angry with caching or using the site as cachers.

 

They are probably logging on as free members, at least, I hope they are - because when I rehide them with new co-ordinates, I will have to make them Member Only caches. I hope they are too cheap to pay to be a premium member.

 

They are the types who will spend thousands of dollars on guns and ammo, but are too cheap to pay for ammo cans. That just makes me very sad and angry.

 

Please - if you have it written on your listings that the container is an ammo can, please consider taking that out and putting in something else. I know it's not nice to lie, and this hurts the real Geocachers, but I think it's better to do that than to have your ammo cans stolen.

 

[+SeventhSon]

However, being able to see who views your cache page does not protect it and just because you can narrow the suspects down to 3 profiles and it is confirmed that all three suspects are the same person, suspicion is not enough for action to be taken.

 

So, are these 3 profiles, that are the same person, all premium profiles, or are they using the "back door"?

[+beezerb]

Thanks so much for the replies and ideas.

 

After emailing with a few local cachers whose ammo cans were also stolen over the last month, it was suggested to me that it might actually be hunters who are using the Geocaching.com website to find caches that state that they are ammo cans in the listing. I really hope that is the case, that these are hunters who are doing this in the area, and not people who are just angry with caching or using the site as cachers.

 

They are probably logging on as free members, at least, I hope they are - because when I rehide them with new co-ordinates, I will have to make them Member Only caches. I hope they are too cheap to pay to be a premium member.

 

They are the types who will spend thousands of dollars on guns and ammo, but are too cheap to pay for ammo cans. That just makes me very sad and angry.

 

Please - if you have it written on your listings that the container is an ammo can, please consider taking that out and putting in something else. I know it's not nice to lie, and this hurts the real Geocachers, but I think it's better to do that than to have your ammo cans stolen.

 

 

Dang! What kind of critter do they hunt in Pennsylvania? Just can't picture any hunter I know carrying an ammo box full of ammo. I have seen ammo boxes used on commercial rafting trips to keep small items dry.

Mrs. Beezerb

[CoyoteRed]

You have to understand that if you make your caches public then they are vulnerable.

 

Making a traditional cache an MOC is useless. You only need to manipulate the nearest list URL to make the MOC display "here" to get the coords.

 

A couple of things to try is switching over to one of the other listing sites. Terracaching.com is a semi private site in that you need sponsorship. This would make if harder to be anonymous.

 

Or you could start making them puzzles. See how that works for you.

 

Personally, in a situation like this I'd not ever put a replacement in the same spot. If the maggot happens by he may just get the urge to look where he stole the last one.

[+briansnat]

There are several kinds of cache thieves. The most common seems to be the lone non geocacher who accidentally discovers a cache and takes it. Hiding your caches better can help here.

 

The second most common are those who find out about the sport and think it would be fun to steal caches. Usually they are teens or adults who never grew up. The best way to deal with these people is to ignore them. Don't start forum threads about it. Don't rant about the theft in cache logs. Basically ignore the thief and quietly

replace or archive the cache. This type is looking for attention and if you don't give it to them, they soon tire of it and move on. The worst thing you can do with this type is encourage them by paying any attention to them whatsoever. Making caches difficult via multis, high terrain ratings, longer hikes and puzzles can also help with this category as well as making caches MOC.

 

Next on the list are disaffected geocachers. They may have a quarrel with another geocacher, a group of geocachers, this website or the world. They can be quite destructive being that they are already handy with the GPS and cache searching techniques. Also making your caches puzzles, multis and MOCs may not thwart them as they often already know where the cache is having already found it. This category also tends to get tired fairly quickly, particularly if they are ignored.

 

The hardest to deal with are the environmental crusaders. Thankfully they seem to make up one of the smallest group of cache thieves. They believe that geocaching is a scourge and will do everything in their power to rid the planet of geocaches. Usually this type goes after caches in national forests and state parks and forest preserves and doesn't bother with urban caches. They are self-righteous jackarses who believe they are doing good. High terrain? Long hikes? Multis? Nothing stops them. They are often avid hikers and backpackers so they can walk for miles, nabbing numerous caches along the way. With this kind you can only hope they move away, die (of natural causes of course), or find a real environmental threat that

gets their focus.

 

Then there are the ammo box thieves. They just want the ammo box. Sometimes they will dump out the contents on the ground, or even replace the box it with a cheap, plastic container. If you have one of these, the only way to deal with it is to stop using ammo boxes, or at least don't mention that the cache is in an ammo box on the page.

[+kittyboodles]

Dang! What kind of critter do they hunt in Pennsylvania? ohmy.gif Just can't picture any hunter I know carrying an ammo box full of ammo. unsure.gif I have seen ammo boxes used on commercial rafting trips to keep small items dry.

 

There are a lot of hunters in this area. Some also do illegal "spotlighting" at night as well, thinking they won't be caught. I would not put it past them to do such a thing.

 

Not too far from me are several white water rafting places, and many lakes around this area too, so it could also be boaters.

 

You have to understand that if you make your caches public then they are vulnerable.

 

Making a traditional cache an MOC is useless. You only need to manipulate the nearest list URL to make the MOC display "here" to get the coords.

 

A couple of things to try is switching over to one of the other listing sites. Terracaching.com is a semi private site in that you need sponsorship. This would make if harder to be anonymous.

 

Or you could start making them puzzles. See how that works for you.

 

Personally, in a situation like this I'd not ever put a replacement in the same spot. If the maggot happens by he may just get the urge to look where he stole the last one.

 

Thanks for the ideas, CoyoteRed. I will replace the caches, but not in the same place, far enough away where the idea is the same, but the actual caches won't be in the same spots. I like the puzzle ideas too, I will do that as I'm replacing.

 

It just irks me that there are people out there who do this sort of thing. I'm hoping that by telling my story, that others will be helped and be made aware of potential problems so they can avoid the same thing happening.

[+kittyboodles]

Thank you, briansnat.

 

I appreciate your time in explaining all of that to me.

 

Then there are the ammo box thieves. They just want the ammo box. Sometimes they will dump out the contents on the ground, or even replace the box it with a cheap, plastic container. If you have one of these, the only way to deal with it is to stop using ammo boxes, or at least don't mention that the cache is in an ammo box on the page.

 

It seems like this is what I'm dealing with. It wasn't just my caches that were taken, they targeted a few other ammo box caches within several miles of the area. They just dumped the contents on the ground.

Edited July 23, 2007 by kittyboodles

[+The Leprechauns]

They are probably logging on as free members, at least, I hope they are - because when I rehide them with new co-ordinates, I will have to make them Member Only caches. I hope they are too cheap to pay to be a premium member.

This will do you no good in the face of a determined cache thief. In addition to the reasons already mentioned, remember that someone can download your cache coordinates through pocket queries and *never* view your cache page. I own three premium accounts and I regularly browse cache pages under each of them, including members-only caches. I've never taken a cache. But would I be targeted as a suspect, while the real thief sneaks off with your ammo can, having never shown up in the audit log?

 

It is awfully difficult to prove that someone has stolen a cache unless you catch them with it while it's happening or after it happened.

Please - if you have it written on your listings that the container is an ammo can, please consider taking that out and putting in something else. I know it's not nice to lie, and this hurts the real Geocachers, but I think it's better to do that than to have your ammo cans stolen.

 

As an owner, I would not say on my cache page that the cache is a rubbermaid when it's actually an ammo can. As a finder, I adjust my search strategy based on the information provided on the cache page, and I count on it to be accurate. I would rather that the cache page not say anything about the container, other than its size is "Regular."

[+Team GeoBlast]

Hey everyone,

 

I have some bad news.

 

Someone went around an area and destroyed several caches, then stole all the ammo cans if there were any. Almost all of my caches are down, and a few others within a certain number of miles as well.

 

One cache muggled I can see, here and there, but this was a deliberate thing and included other caches in the area.

 

I am so sad about this that I don't know what to do.

 

Have you all seen something like this happen before where a whole area has been targeted? Why would someone do this? To steal the ammo cans? Do you think it was someone who has the free account? I mean, why would you pay to be a premium member and then do something like this?

 

My caches have been a source of happiness for me and the ones who have found them in the past. But I don't know if I even want to put them back up, what if they come back and destroy these, too?

 

What would you do?

 

Thanks.

 

Perhaps another route is to purchase a motion activated trail camera and find out who is doing it. As far as prosecution of what we cachers consider a perp, this will probably not help. But putting the perp's pic in the next ammo can and passing it around to your fellow cachers could provide a little pause.

 

We've used these cameras to try to deter graffiti in my area. There's one that actually calls you up and sends a pic of perp in action. There's one that takes a high res digital photo (which is probably best for your purposes) and there's one that takes a DVR movie.

 

Email me if you would like more information on the units we use.

[+jtbrady01]

We actually had this discussion at the Midwest GeoBash this weekend with reps from Groundspeak. Talking about the strategies on the forums isn't really the best ideas. If the culprits are using the geocaching.com as a portal for finding the caches to steal then don't you think they are reading the forums as well? Any ideas, suggestions that we post will just help them along with whatever their mission is. The best approach is unfortunately, to ignore the situation. After a while whoever is doing this will get tired of not getting the attention they are currently getting and will move on to something else.

[musicwoman]

Thanks so much for the replies and ideas.

 

After emailing with a few local cachers whose ammo cans were also stolen over the last month, it was suggested to me that it might actually be hunters who are using the Geocaching.com website to find caches that state that they are ammo cans in the listing. I really hope that is the case, that these are hunters who are doing this in the area, and not people who are just angry with caching or using the site as cachers.

 

They are probably logging on as free members, at least, I hope they are - because when I rehide them with new co-ordinates, I will have to make them Member Only caches. I hope they are too cheap to pay to be a premium member.

 

 

I am a letterboxer who also geocaches in CT. This week, we have been having a huge epidemic where over 50 letterboxes have gone missing within the span of less than a week. Entire State Parks full of letterboxes are going missing. These "muggles" seem to want to put in a huge time and effort taking out entire series of letterboxes in Bluff Point, Harkness, and Gillette Castle to name a few of the places they've hit. We've resorted to taking our clues off line for the time being to hope that it blows over.

 

I feel your pain, and hope it just blows over soon :-). I might try to contact the geocachers who have planted in these parks (if any of you read this post, you can e-mail me back privately at mindizneyatcoxdotnet) to see whether the geocaches are going missing as well.

 

Music Woman

[+Driver Carries Cache]

Thanks so much for the replies and ideas.

 

After emailing with a few local cachers whose ammo cans were also stolen over the last month, it was suggested to me that it might actually be hunters who are using the Geocaching.com website to find caches that state that they are ammo cans in the listing. I really hope that is the case, that these are hunters who are doing this in the area, and not people who are just angry with caching or using the site as cachers.

 

They are probably logging on as free members, at least, I hope they are - because when I rehide them with new co-ordinates, I will have to make them Member Only caches. I hope they are too cheap to pay to be a premium member.

 

They are the types who will spend thousands of dollars on guns and ammo, but are too cheap to pay for ammo cans. That just makes me very sad and angry.

 

Please - if you have it written on your listings that the container is an ammo can, please consider taking that out and putting in something else. I know it's not nice to lie, and this hurts the real Geocachers, but I think it's better to do that than to have your ammo cans stolen.

 

 

I'd be careful making the assumption that hunters are stealing ammo cans. Most Rod & Gun Clubs have a pile of them they're giving away for free... just trying to get rid of them. That's how we got a few of ours. Anyone I know that shoots usually has a few of them laying around somewhere. I'd seriously doubt that hunters are stealing them to store ammo in.

 

DCC

[+Renegade Knight]

...What would you do?...

 

I'd take the fun and joy that the perp gets out of that away. Then I'd get out there and place more caches, replace the ones worth replacing, archive the ones that you didn't enjoy owning. Maybe I'd change to cheaper containers for the moment. But I'd not quit the game.

 

If I did manage to figure out who the perp was, I'd take advantage of a few things in how the law works to show my displeasure.

[+J-Way]

Then there are the ammo box thieves. They just want the ammo box. Sometimes they will dump out the contents on the ground, or even replace the box it with a cheap, plastic container. If you have one of these, the only way to deal with it is to stop using ammo boxes, or at least don't mention that the cache is in an ammo box on the page.

It seems like this is what I'm dealing with. It wasn't just my caches that were taken, they targeted a few other ammo box caches within several miles of the area. They just dumped the contents on the ground.

I thought I posted to this thread earlier, but either I didn't hit "submit" or something wierd happened. Anyway, I agree that it sounds like you have an ammo box thief. Since one person doesn't usually need several dozen ammo boxes, the thief is probably just gathering them to sell at flea markets or eBay.

 

While there is no way to make anything completely theft-proof, you can take steps to make the theft less likely to happen:

• - Securely fasten the box to an immovable object such that forced removal is too much trouble or would severly damage the box. Please do NOT endanger native plantlife or historic structures while doing this.
  - Permanently engrave, scribe, or punch your name and contact info into the steel. You can get scribing tools and letter/number punches fairly cheaply. You can melt the info into plastic containers.
  - Use a custom, easily recognizable, camo paint pattern. This would really only help if the thief was dumb enough to sell the cans back locally without repainting first, but who ever said thieves were smart?
  - As others have suggested, only use the more expensive (better) ammo cans for harder caches (puzzles, multis, and high terrain rating caches). Again, not foolproof, but it will at least discourage the laziest thieves.
  

Good luck,

Jason

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Here is one suggestion which has been aired on the forums in the past regarding this problem, along the lines of tit for tat.

[+Renegade Knight]

....They are probably logging on as free members, at least, I hope they are - because when I rehide them with new co-ordinates, I will have to make them Member Only caches. I hope they are too cheap to pay to be a premium member. ...

 

That does work. While keystone said it won't stop a determined maggot, well all have locks on our doos and they do stop everything short of the truly determined ones. Same for caches. Our local cache maggot did upgrade to a premium membership for a short spell, but they got over it. Still that took two years and that membership did get banned or lapse and life is normal again.

[+TrailGators]

You could make it an MOC mystery cache with an unknown size container. That would slow them down.

[+briansnat]

Here is one suggestion which has been aired on the forums in the past regarding this problem, along the lines of tit for tat.

 

You are a sick man. How can you possibly suggest this to be a way to deal with someone who steals a tupperware container with a few trinkets? You are blowing the "crime" way out of proportion. It's tupperware for cyrin' out loud. Have you no sense of value? Ammo is way to expensive to waste.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Here is one suggestion which has been aired on the forums in the past regarding this problem, along the lines of tit for tat.

You are a sick man. How can you possibly suggest this to be a way to deal with someone who steals a tupperware container with a few trinkets? You are blowing the "crime" way out of proportion. It's tupperware for cyrin' out loud. Have you no sense of value? Ammo is way to expensive to waste.

[CoyoteRed]

Oh, I forgot to mention...

 

One of our caches went away and we replaced it using a bicycle chain. Well, we needed two to go around the, umm, "object" it is secured to. We put the combination on the cache page.

 

You have the option of locking the cache completely or just locking the cache container to an anchor.

 

If the container then walks off then either you're sure it's a cache who has access to the cache page or a muggle with heavy duty tools. It doesn't solve the issue of someone with access to the cache page, though.

[+FireRef]

We had a problem a year or so back in the Northwestern PA/Northeastern OH area - a person who placed a large number of ammo can caches had a large number of those stolen, and he ended up archiving all of his caches (50+) because he was getting tired of replacing them and supplying this person with them. Some of the ones I found were chained to trees or other immovable objects. Within a week or so of me going through the area, many of the caches I had logged were archived, and when I read the cache pages, the owner posted the following:

 

To the Muggler: Sorry to spoil your 'fun' but I will no longer be able to provide you with ammo cans. Try something new, it's called "Buy Your Own". Status report on replacement forthcoming, in the meantime, NO log entries will be accepted.

 

Then archived.

 

This happened on over 50 caches. I just checked out the one I remember finding that this happened to, and it looks like he got a little back into it, as a couple of caches have been placed. I'm glad to see this. But he was right - someone was stealing ammo cans, including cutting chains holding them down, and he was tired of it. I would be too.

 

I'm guessing whoever was doing it just got tired of it.