Co-FTF

[+LewisClan77]

I found a cache tonight-GC14FYW-and when I pulled up there was another cacher who was there.Only problem was she had no pen to sign.Technically she was first but I had a pen and offered to let her use it if we do a co-FTF.She said I can claim whatever I want, so I did.Do you think it is all right to do that?

[+FamilyDNA]

I think my words were more like, "Hey, you can claim whatever you want, that doesn't make it true..."

[+txoilgas]

I found a cache tonight-GC14FYW-and when I pulled up there was another cacher who was there.Only problem was she had no pen to sign.Technically she was first but I had a pen and offered to let her use it if we do a co-FTF.She said I can claim whatever I want, so I did.Do you think it is all right to do that?

Not right. She was first to find and to be more technical you did not find, you only made an entry in a log that she had found.

Edited July 20, 2007 by txoilgas

[+FamilyDNA]

I found a cache tonight-GC14FYW-and when I pulled up there was another cacher who was there.Only problem was she had no pen to sign.Technically she was first but I had a pen and offered to let her use it if we do a co-FTF.She said I can claim whatever I want, so I did.Do you think it is all right to do that?

Not right. She was first to find and to be more technical you did not find, you only made an entry in a log that she had found.

No, he did find it. I put it back, minus the log, while I scoured my car (unsuccessfully) for a pen. When he showed up I let him find it on his own.

[+txoilgas]

I found a cache tonight-GC14FYW-and when I pulled up there was another cacher who was there.Only problem was she had no pen to sign.Technically she was first but I had a pen and offered to let her use it if we do a co-FTF.She said I can claim whatever I want, so I did.Do you think it is all right to do that?

Not right. She was first to find and to be more technical you did not find, you only made an entry in a log that she had found.

No, he did find it. I put it back, minus the log, while I scoured my car (unsuccessfully) for a pen. When he showed up I let him find it on his own.

Then, in my book, he does not deserve a FTF. To get a FTF just because you have a pen is mighty lame.

[+txoilgas]

I just read your entry in the cache in question.

 

"July 19 by LewisClan77 (472 found)

OK this time I wont claim FTF but next time I'm not gonna let people use my pen"

 

Sounds like someone needs a little quiet time. Shall we all now send a rasberry

[+Knight2000]

I see no reason to ever mention what number you are to find a cache.

 

Unless the cache owner is keeping track of it for some type of mathematical analysis i don't get it.

 

What does it mean that someone is FTF?

 

Pretty much nothing.

 

I cant think of one reason to record it other than to make one feel better about oneself.

 

Being FTF means you were in the right place at the right time. It is entirely relative. Relative for so many reasons.

 

The only exception IMO would be a puzzle cache. Those take a little more to do in most situations and i don't have a problem with someone other than the finder recognizing the feat.

 

I hate it when i find a logbook or online log and it says:

 

FTF!!!!! FTF!!!! FTF!!!! YEAH YEAH YEAH FTF!!!

 

Don't get this confused with those who enjoy attempting a newly published cache. I know a local cacher who gets lots and lots of FTF's. They never mention it in their logs. I love it.

 

It is all happenstance, does it really matter?

[+Theseus]

It seems a little odd to me to negotiate a FTF. I don't think finding it second but supplying the pen to the first finder means that you found it first.

 

Hey, FDNA, caching without a pen? You know better than that!!

[+briansnat]

I found a cache tonight-GC14FYW-and when I pulled up there was another cacher who was there.Only problem was she had no pen to sign.Technically she was first but I had a pen and offered to let her use it if we do a co-FTF.She said I can claim whatever I want, so I did.Do you think it is all right to do that?

 

How do you claim a FTF? You either are FTF or you aren't. If the other cacher found it first, that makes you second to find no matter what you claim.

Edited July 20, 2007 by briansnat

[+SparksWG3K]

I see no reason to ever mention what number you are to find a cache.

 

Unless the cache owner is keeping track of it for some type of mathematical analysis i don't get it.

 

What does it mean that someone is FTF?

 

Pretty much nothing.

 

I cant think of one reason to record it other than to make one feel better about oneself.

 

Being FTF means you were in the right place at the right time. It is entirely relative. Relative for so many reasons.

 

The only exception IMO would be a puzzle cache. Those take a little more to do in most situations and i don't have a problem with someone other than the finder recognizing the feat.

 

I hate it when i find a logbook or online log and it says:

 

Don't get this confused with those who enjoy attempting a newly published cache. I know a local cacher who gets lots and lots of FTF's. They never mention it in their logs. I love it.

 

It is all happenstance, does it really matter?

 

FTF means that you were the first to find the cache without following a geotrail left by the previous cachers and that you are just plain good!

 

I personally challenge myself to get all the FTFs I can. And yes, it is all about the numbers.

Edited July 20, 2007 by kf4otn

[+The Leprechauns]

I think that I would have been very happy to meet FamilyDNA at a cache, and to lend a pen. Making a new friend would beat finding a cache first -- heck, I'd be happy with a DNF if I spent some time outdoors with another geocacher. I'd like to think that, by not being at all worried about who was FTF, we instead would have chatted a bit about things we had in common, and eventually discovered that one of us quotes from the Book of Isaiah in our forum signature while the other quotes from the Book of Jeremiah.

 

If you're worried about who is FTF, and about how many caches you've yet to find that day, you can miss wonderful little opportunities like that.

 

I am very happy that this listing service does not track or otherwise officially recognize the concept of "First to Find."

[+txoilgas]

I guess we see what kind of cacher we have when he goes and revises his cache page entries. Here is what he had to say before he revised history.

 

 

Edited July 20, 2007 by txoilgas

[Mr.Yuck]

I just read your entry in the cache in question.

 

"July 19 by LewisClan77 (472 found)

OK this time I wont claim FTF but next time I'm not gonna let people use my pen"

 

Sounds like someone needs a little quiet time. Shall we all now send a rasberry

 

There's a note posted by another cacher on that cache page (quoted below, bolded by myself), which I totally agree with:

 

geez, since when did FTF honors become so "important"? Remember everyone, this game is about having fun, and helping others....

 

I guess this is what happens when geocaching becomes competitive, as opposed to just for fun

Edited July 20, 2007 by TheWhiteUrkel

[+halffast]

This just happened to me.I was watching a cache that hadnt been found yet.It had been placed several months and only 1 cacher had tried to log it without success.I got to the cache site as other people were just leaving.I asked if they had found anything interesting and they told me they had found a geo cache but the logbook was soaking wet and they couldnot sign it.I went for this cache to get the FTF.I ripped a couple pages out of my notebook so they could sign it and get the FTF.They had a film container so we put the paper in it so the next finders could have dry paper to sign.Even though they could not sign the wet logbook they were still FTF and I was 2nd.End of story.

[+Knight2000]

FTF means that you were the first to find the cache without following a geotrail left by the previous cachers and that you are just plain good!

 

I personally challenge myself to get all the FTFs I can. And yes, it is all about the numbers.

It sure does mean you are FTF. I think it means little more than that.

 

"Just plain good"? Explain that. Maybe you "just plain have more time" or "just plain happened to be nearby at the time of listing". It doesnt really make you a better cacher or anything.

 

You just found it first.

 

Big deal.

 

Don't pull a muscle patting yourself on the back.

I am very happy that this listing service does not track or otherwise officially recognize the concept of "First to Find."

[+CurmudgeonlyGal]

I am very happy that this listing service does not track or otherwise officially recognize the concept of "First to Find."

 

It'll be a suggested 'lets add this feature' in the Geocaching.com Web Site forum later today.

 

 

 

michelle

[+flask]

I found a cache tonight-GC14FYW-and when I pulled up there was another cacher who was there.Only problem was she had no pen to sign.Technically she was first but I had a pen and offered to let her use it if we do a co-FTF.She said I can claim whatever I want, so I did.Do you think it is all right to do that?

 

there is so much wrong with this that i don't even know where to begin.

 

no, it's not all right to do that.

 

i have to go have breakfast now.

[+CurmudgeonlyGal]

I found a cache tonight-GC14FYW-and when I pulled up there was another cacher who was there.Only problem was she had no pen to sign.Technically she was first but I had a pen and offered to let her use it if we do a co-FTF.She said I can claim whatever I want, so I did.Do you think it is all right to do that?

 

No.

 

You weren't even close to being first.

 

 

 

 

michelle

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I found a cache tonight-GC14FYW-and when I pulled up there was another cacher who was there.Only problem was she had no pen to sign.Technically she was first but I had a pen and offered to let her use it if we do a co-FTF.She said I can claim whatever I want, so I did.Do you think it is all right to do that?

I sure hope that you were kidding when you told us that tale! You were not FTF, pure and simple, and no amount of bargaining with the devil or trying to twist reality can ever change that fact! Can FTF really be that important to you that you would propose doing such a thing?

[Neos2]

I agree with everyone else, but where are all the people who say "it isn't a find until you sign the log" in all those other threads? You'd think they'd be here defending the owner of the pen.

 

To me co-FTF is what happens when my husband and I both spot the cache at the same time. If one of us finds it before the other, we say that person was FTF (Not that we race out to get those, but it does happen once in a great while). If other teams of people want to do it differently, that is OK with me, too.

 

I guess it all depends on how narrowly you define group or team. In this case there was no "team" unless both people feel that warm and fuzzy team spirit. One person was the first to find the cache, and was nice enough to put it back so the other person could enjoy the thrill of the hunt for second to find. Since the pen owner was gracious enough to lend their pen to the FTF, I can see where they might feel they were part of the group effort to log the cache, but if it were me I wouldn't feel I was part of 'the group' that first found the cache. Since FTF isn't an official race, I really don't care what they claim as far as their personal statistics go. You wanna count it as co-FTF, even though you weren't there when it was originally found, well....OK, I'm just saying I wouldn't count it that way.

 

To me, it's really all about the hunt and the find. The signature is just a way to mark your visit for the folks that come later, the real story is the hunt, the view, the find, the fun. Why spoil that with quibbling? I suppose I don't understand FTF fever.

[+Renegade Knight]

I found a cache tonight-GC14FYW-and when I pulled up there was another cacher who was there.Only problem was she had no pen to sign.Technically she was first but I had a pen and offered to let her use it if we do a co-FTF.She said I can claim whatever I want, so I did.Do you think it is all right to do that?

 

She was FTF. You came along second.

 

She still could have make her mark on that log in any number of ways without your pen. Your pen was just easier.

 

Was it right to try and weasel your way into a co-ftf when you were second? No. The world won't end, but you should have just congradulated her and owned up to being second like a man.

[+Stargazer22]

No, it's not all right.

I suppose the first finder should have just kept the cache in hand until they found a pen, then we wouldn't have this question.

Holding FTF honors hostage for the use of a pen is just sad.

[+Team_CSG]

For me, if a FTF happens, GREAT!! If not thats AOK.

 

If I'm with another cacher and find it first, I will offer to share the FTF. The other cacher has eliminated areas to look.

[+Packanack]

I believe that this will proably get me tossed, but am I the only one who noticed that these two are from California.

[+frivlas]

I believe that this will proably get me tossed, but am I the only one who noticed that these two are from California.

 

So what? Did you expect them to be from different states?

[+flask]

I believe that this will proably get me tossed, but am I the only one who noticed that these two are from California.

 

and that's relevant because...?

[Mr.Yuck]

I believe that this will proably get me tossed, but am I the only one who noticed that these two are from California.

 

and that's relevant because...?

 

Because the person who typed it is from New Jersey?

[+Kealia]

I agree. The concept of FTF holds little enjoyment for me. Sure, there are some times when it's fun to try to beat others to be first, or to be the first to solve a tough puzzle, take a long hike, etc. - but in the end it's not that important.

 

Out here, it's more fun and good heckling than serious. In that instance, I would have joked with the person on the scene already "What? No pen? Guess you won't be first then!" - but in the end, they FOUND it first.

 

Yes, you do need to sign the log to claim your smiley, but it doesn't mean that you didn't FIND the cache.

 

Now, if they were there earlier and found it, but couldn't leave a mark or proof of being there and had to leave to get a pen (during which time you showed up, found it and signed it) I guess you could claim FTF for the purposes of the site. But this gets into a grey area that I just don't care too much about.

[+Driver Carries Cache]

FTF means that you were the first to find the cache without following a geotrail left by the previous cachers and that you are just plain good!

 

I personally challenge myself to get all the FTFs I can. And yes, it is all about the numbers.

It sure does mean you are FTF. I think it means little more than that.

 

"Just plain good"? Explain that. Maybe you "just plain have more time" or "just plain happened to be nearby at the time of listing". It doesnt really make you a better cacher or anything.

 

You just found it first.

 

Big deal.

 

Don't pull a muscle patting yourself on the back.

I am very happy that this listing service does not track or otherwise officially recognize the concept of "First to Find."

 

I don't get all the spiteful comments on being FTF?!?

 

- It is a fun challenge to blaze the trail first.

- There are no extra clues in the previous logs (because there aren't any ).

- There's no "geotrail" or other damage to the cache site from "aggressive seeking" to give anything away.

- You find the cache EXACTLY as the hider intended (we all know that they will "migrate" with each successive find).

- Mmmmmm..... clean, crisp, blank logsheet!

- You enjoy the thrill of the hunt and the chance that you might get to meet a fellow Geocacher "in the field" (one of Geocaching's greatest pleasures!).

- Should it get recognition, or count for anything at GC.com... Nope! I keep track of my own stats thanks.

 

I think the FTF is a worthy objective. I'm not a huge FTF hound (we have plenty in our area) but I definitely get a kick out of them.

 

I would have handed the pen to the first finder and congratulated them on their find. Then I would happily log my newest find and be on my merry way, glad to have met a fellow cacher!

 

And when I do get lucky enough to be FTF would I post a log that looked like:

 

:D Yesssssss! FTF Baby! :D

 

You bet I would!... and in the end, the only reason it means anything is because I had fun doing it.

 

Driver Carries Cache

[+SeventhSon]

So how does "if you don't sign the log it's not a find" fit into this example?

[+briansnat]

So how does "if you don't sign the log it's not a find" fit into this example?

 

It doesn't because both parties signed the log.

[+Miragee]

So how does "if you don't sign the log it's not a find" fit into this example?

I bet the person who was FTF would have figured out some way to sign the logbook, to make their mark and prove they were FTF, if someone with a pen had not shown up on the scene.

 

Perhaps some mud, maybe a grass stain, blood . . .

 

There are ways . . .

[+CurmudgeonlyGal]

So how does "if you don't sign the log it's not a find" fit into this example?

 

Well, she was holding the log IN HER HAND whilst looking for a pen.

 

So, now FTF gets to be whomever shows up WITH a pen, regardless of who's holding the log book?

 

He didn't find it first. He didn't sign the log first.

 

I guess her crime is that she actually had the gall to look for a pen and should have, instead, done the dirt&stick/blood/nail polish/rock&whatever before anyone else had the opportunity to arrive.

 

Granted, it would have solved this issue and the STF wouldn't be so confused as to whether or not he was co-FTF (no way!) or STF (without a doubt).

 

-=-

 

This whole topic is just silly.

 

The answer is NO! You didn't "co-find" anything.

 

 

michelle

[+Packanack]

and that's relevant because...?

 

Because one would have thought that one or the other would have ceded the FTF in keeping with the spirit of Geocaching, which I have always found to be based upon graciousness and good will. I thought it odd that the usually mellow Californians would embroil themselves in silliness of the highest order as is being displayed here. We on the right coast are usually viewed as being obstreporous in extremis. And after considering all that--the entire situation called to mind the famous quote of Will Rogers.

 

I know of no cacher locally who would engage in a dispute over FTF--

Edited July 20, 2007 by Packanack

[+TheManInStripes]

FTF means that you were the first to find the cache without following a geotrail left by the previous cachers and that you are just plain good!

 

I personally challenge myself to get all the FTFs I can. And yes, it is all about the numbers.

You have to admire someone who openly admits that it IS about the numbers. Because IT IS!! And if you aren't first, you're last!!!

[+sbell111]

...This whole topic is just silly.

 

The answer is NO! You didn't "co-find" anything.

 

michelle

Agreed and agreed.

... And after considering all that--the entire situation called to mind the famous quote of Will Rogers quotation. I know of no cacher locally who would engage in a dispute over FTF--

Will Rogers was a geocacher? Cool.

 

(Wonders how he did it before GPS technology existed.)

Edited July 20, 2007 by sbell111

[+flask]

and that's relevant because...?

 

Because one would have thought that one or the other would have ceded the FTF in keeping with the spirit of Geocaching, which I have always found to be based upon graciousness and good will. I thought it odd that the usually mellow Californians would embroil themselves in silliness of the highest order as is being displayed here. We on the right coast are usually viewed as being obstreporous in extremis. And after considering all that--the entire situation called to mind the famous quote of Will Rogers quotation. I know of no cacher locally who would engage in a dispute over FTF--

 

i'm afraid i still don't follow you.

 

the spirit of geocaching?

 

for some the spirit of geocaching involves a headlong dive to get to a cache first. and apparently it involves attempting to buy FF bragging rights for the use of a pen. the only really universal spirit of geocaching is the one wherein we hide stuff and we look for stuff.

 

graciousness and goodwill?

 

i've seen folks take a TB out to a remote cache to strand it there because they don't like the owner. i have personally been accused of cheating on a FF because the second person to come along opened the book from the back and didn't see my signature.

 

mellow californians?

 

some californians featured in the forums and the news are among the most strident voices.

 

dispute over FTF?

 

i have seen it in every region in which i have cached. there's always one in every crowd.

 

so while i see now where you're making your shaky assumptions based on geography, i don't see where it applies to the question, nor do i understand what about it might trigger a suspension.

[+sbell111]

... And if you aren't first, you're last!!!

... until the next guy finds it. Edited July 20, 2007 by sbell111

[+TheManInStripes]

No, it's not all right.

I suppose the first finder should have just kept the cache in hand until they found a pen, then we wouldn't have this question.

Holding FTF honors hostage for the use of a pen is just sad.

 

This is exactly what I would have done. I would have told them quite plainly, "Loan me the pen, or this cache is leaving with me until I can find a pen, at which time I will bring back the signed log."

 

And then I would have done just that. Yes, it may have affected a few other cachers who came hunting while I was gone with the cache, but sometimes, you just gotta do what you just gotta do!!

[+IDLookout]

FTF means nothing to me. It may to some people who see it as another challenge, but this whole situation is just plain stupid.

 

There are no extra "smilies" or "points" or anything for FTF - just a note on a found log.

 

Holding a cache hostage is mind boggling to me.

[+flask]

i think i'd have done exactly what she did. in the end it matters not one bit if someone wants to declare themselves co-ftf, rightful ftf, or even emperor of the universe. the facts still stand unchanged.

 

and unless you really need to prove it to the world, what's the use of bothering with one addlepated, cloying, coattail hanging wannabe?

 

i went out one day to FF a brand new cache; i saw the notification immediately, and it was ten miles from my house. it had been found accidentally the day before by a cacher looking for something else. the cache owner declared me to be FTF, a dubious honor which i declined.

 

i wasn't the first finder. it was just that simple.

 

just because the cache owner was hacked that his cache got poached didn't change that.

[+tozainamboku]

It seems to me the OP was FTF. FamilyDNA did not sign the log because she didn't have a pen. I've been around these forum enough to know that if you didn't sign the log you didn't find the cache . At least that's what the puritans say. I don't understand how some of these same puritans now say that if you didn't sign the log but the person who was first to sign then lets you borrow a pen that makes you first to find.

[+sbell111]

It seems to me the OP was FTF. FamilyDNA did not sign the log because she didn't have a pen. I've been around these forum enough to know that if you didn't sign the log you didn't find the cache . At least that's what the puritans say. I don't understand how some of these same puritans now say that if you didn't sign the log but the person who was first to sign then lets you borrow a pen that makes you first to find.

As I read the situation, the OP wasn't the first to sign. The other cacher still had the logbook, borrowed the pen and then gave the logbook and pen to the OP. Of course, I may be wrong. Edited July 20, 2007 by sbell111

[4wheelin_fool]

I found a cache tonight-GC14FYW-and when I pulled up there was another cacher who was there.Only problem was she had no pen to sign.Technically she was first but I had a pen and offered to let her use it if we do a co-FTF.She said I can claim whatever I want, so I did.Do you think it is all right to do that?

 

She was FTF.

 

You were FTFAP (first to find a pen) and also FTATRIQ (first to ask this really inane question)

So you have 2 firsts! Thats better than being last!

[+flask]

what boggles my mind is that the OP came here to ask at all.

 

like, wow. i have not been ridiculed nearly enough today, so i will do something that makes me look foolish and then put it up before a large audience and ask for validation.

 

i had to check my calendar. is it april?

 

ok, level with us. this is some kid of prank, right? the two of you went out to FF a cache and thought you'd have a few laughs? the OP can't be for real...

[+Renegade Knight]

...

FTF!!!!! FTF!!!! FTF!!!! YEAH YEAH YEAH FTF!!!

...

 

What! You mean my FTF song is WASTED!

 

Fist Time Finders Sing This Song. Doooo Dah, Doo Dah.

Now You're Here and I'm Long Gone, Ohhh The Doo Dah, Day!

[+Renegade Knight]

...Because one would have thought that one or the other would have ceded the FTF in keeping with the spirit of Geocaching, which I have always found to be based upon graciousness and good will....

 

If this was really true, the question would have never been posed an nobody would have to have ceeded anything. Let alone the qeustion about propiety come up.

 

Some people think that Graciounsness and good will are best displayed by the person to whom they are making a request. They don't realize that graciousness and good will would sometimes demand that they never pose the question.

[+Driver Carries Cache]

and that's relevant because...?

 

Because one would have thought that one or the other would have ceded the FTF in keeping with the spirit of Geocaching, which I have always found to be based upon graciousness and good will.

 

And in that "spirit of Geocaching" you've decided to post... not to answer or debate the topic, but to issue a "blanket" insult to any Geocachers from California?

 

I thought it odd that the usually mellow Californians would embroil themselves in silliness of the highest order as is being displayed here.

 

Despite whatever preconceptions you may have, Californians are no more prone to the silliness exhibited in this thread (and it is silly) than folk from anywhere else.

 

DCC

[+flask]

...

FTF!!!!! FTF!!!! FTF!!!! YEAH YEAH YEAH FTF!!!

...

 

What! You mean my FTF song is WASTED!

 

Fist Time Finders Sing This Song. Doooo Dah, Doo Dah.

Now You're Here and I'm Long Gone, Ohhh The Doo Dah, Day!

 

hey, we have a song like that here, only we sing it about the hiders of micros in the woods that we can't find:

 

(name) is an SOB, doo-dah, doo-dah

he'll pay for what he did to me, oh, the doo-dah day!

 

and i have an emergency song that i sing when i meet bear or moose. it's a good song because you make up the tune and words as you go along, so it's easy to sing under stress.

 

i am very large and dangerous

i am stringy

and not very tasty

i am very large and dangerous

 

actually i am not large or dangerous

but i want you to think i am so you do not come

and maul me to death.

[+tozainamboku]

It seems to me the OP was FTF. FamilyDNA did not sign the log because she didn't have a pen. I've been around these forum enough to know that if you didn't sign the log you didn't find the cache . At least that's what the puritans say. I don't understand how some of these same puritans now say that if you didn't sign the log but the person who was first to sign then lets you borrow a pen that makes you first to find.

As I read the situation, the OP wasn't the first to sign. The other cacher still had the logbook, borrowed the pen and then gave the logbook and pen to the OP. Of course, I may be wrong.

The way I read it, FDNA rehid the cache while she went back to her car to get a pen. In the meantime LewisClan shows up and starts looking for the cache. She let's him find it. If I were him I would sign the log first claim the FTF and then loan the pen to FDNA to sign if she wanted to. I think offering the co-FTF was very gracious on his part.