Peanut Butter jars

[+sbell111]

Anyone who knowingly leaves a health hazard for someone to encounter and then claims it's the victims fault for picking is up is only deluding themselves that they have no responsibility in the matter.

 

I don't have the allergy, but one someone very dear to me does. You DO NOT have to eat the peanut butter. The allergy can be triggered merely by contacting a microscopic portion of the oils. This is a potentially deadly allergy, so please take it seriously.

 

If you have to use a food jar, try one of the new plastic mayo jars. They're bigger, anyway.

The highlighted portion is not true.

 

People who are allergic to peanuts are allergic to peanut protein, not peanut oil. While it is certainly true that peanut oil may become contaminated with peanut protein, these proteins will certainly be completely removed by a run through the dishwasher.

 

Personally, I would also recommend a soak in a bleach solution for these containers, but that is for removal of the smell, rather than anything to do with allergies.

I am going to disagree with the above.

 

Although not peanuts my son has bad walnut allergies. If he comes into contact with walnut oil he will break out in a rash for weeks.

I'll let you fight that out with the Mayo Clinic. Until you convince them, I'll stick to what they say. Edited July 16, 2007 by sbell111

[+Knight2000]

If you have a allergicsy (i dont) to peanut butter can you get it by reaching into a peanut butter jar cache container?

oh to end all this ranting..

 

The answer to your question in YES

Actually, I believe that the answer is NO.

 

If the container has been washed, no peanut proteins are present. If none of these proteins are present, it is completely impossible to have an allergic reaction to them.

I wonder if proteins get airborn and can kill a person if they're in the same room as someone eating a PB&J sandwich?

I don't know about the proteins but some airlines no longer serve peanuts due to passengers who are allergic to the peanut dust.

 

I am not kidding. Search it on google.

[+sbell111]

I have not hide any caches yet but I am not alergic to peanuts. Can I hide a peanut buter jar? Where do you get them? If not can I hide a caches in cashew buter jar?

I get them from the supermarket next to the jelly.

 

This actually brings up a very important issue. While charter members already get free enrollments to the Jelly of the Month club, I wish we would also receive the Nut Butters of the Month, also. Imagine a yummy Chocolate Hazelnut Butter and Jelly sandwich. Yumm.

[+sbell111]

If you have a allergicsy (i dont) to peanut butter can you get it by reaching into a peanut butter jar cache container?

oh to end all this ranting..

 

The answer to your question in YES

Actually, I believe that the answer is NO.

 

If the container has been washed, no peanut proteins are present. If none of these proteins are present, it is completely impossible to have an allergic reaction to them.

I wonder if proteins get airborn and can kill a person if they're in the same room as someone eating a PB&J sandwich?

I don't know about the proteins but some airlines no longer serve peanuts due to passengers who are allergic to the peanut dust.

 

I am not kidding. Search it on google.

Many people (and groups) ban many things for many silly reasons.

[Mushtang]

If you have a allergicsy (i dont) to peanut butter can you get it by reaching into a peanut butter jar cache container?

oh to end all this ranting..

 

The answer to your question in YES

Actually, I believe that the answer is NO.

 

If the container has been washed, no peanut proteins are present. If none of these proteins are present, it is completely impossible to have an allergic reaction to them.

I wonder if proteins get airborn and can kill a person if they're in the same room as someone eating a PB&J sandwich?

I don't know about the proteins but some airlines no longer serve peanuts due to passengers who are allergic to the peanut dust.

 

I am not kidding. Search it on google.

I fly a lot for my job. Ironically I'm sitting in gate A-11 of Atlanta Hartsfield Airport writing this. I remember one flight when the snack cart was about to be wheeled down the isle, they made an announcement that passengers in rows 20 and higher would not be served peanuts.

 

They're just being cautious. And if I had a cache in a peanut butter container, and someone hyper allergic to peanuts told me they'd be caching in the area, I'd recommend they stay away from my cache, just in case. Better safe than sorry right?

 

But I still disagree that it's the hiders responsibility to keep the finder safe from all possible dangers.

 

And I still think it's BS that someone allergic to peanuts can be killed by being in the same room as someone eating a peanut butter sandwich.

[The Black Pearl]

The world is a dangerous place.

 

Anyone that is hyper allergic to peanuts, and chooses on their own to reach into an old peanut butter jar, is taking the risk themselves.

 

It's not up to us to make everything completely and totally safe for everyone while searching for one of our caches.

 

Besides, I believe you actually have to eat some peanut to have a reaction, not just touch it.

Anyone who knowingly leaves a health hazard for someone to encounter and then claims it's the victims fault for picking is up is only deluding themselves that they have no responsibility in the matter.

 

I don't have the allergy, but one someone very dear to me does. You DO NOT have to eat the peanut butter. The allergy can be triggered merely by contacting a microscopic portion of the oils. This is a potentially deadly allergy, so please take it seriously.

 

If you have to use a food jar, try one of the new plastic mayo jars. They're bigger, anyway.

 

So if the alergy can only be trigered by contacting a microscopic portion of the oils does this mean we need to buy a microscope for geocaching?

[+Knight2000]

I guess we are splitting hairs here. Maybe it is the proteins in the oil.

[+sbell111]

I guess we are splitting hairs here. Maybe it is the proteins in the oil.

Ummm, oil isn't made up of protein.

[+Knight2000]

But I still disagree that it's the hiders responsibility to keep the finder safe from all possible dangers.

As far as an airline- absolutely right. They are in a position where they could get sued and it could affect them financially speaking.

 

Geocaching is different. I am not against the containers if they are sound and will work.

 

I think it is funny but IMO the OP was kind of joking about this topic but this thread sure has got awful long!

[+Knight2000]

I guess we are splitting hairs here. Maybe it is the proteins in the oil.

Ummm, oil isn't made up of protein.

I didn't say made how it is made. Maybe the item causing the trouble is in the oil.

 

Water isnt made of parasites but parasites can be in water.

[+KBI]

Perhaps Keystone was fast one the lock button with that one because he felt my original post was "trolling". After all the topic of multiple found logs is known to be quite controversial ...

 

... So why hasn't this thread been locked? There has been some name calling here. People have made claims about peanut allergeries that others have refered to as BS. Some of the comments on personal responsibility have gotted quited heated ...

 

... I realize my rant is off topic for this thread. If the moderators wish they can move this to a new thread on when controversial threads should be locked ...

I'm severely allergic to hastily locked threads.

[The Black Pearl]

Once I found a night cache where you had to follow reflections to get to it. I left some matches in the container since it was dark. Then I learned it was wrong to do it.

 

So why dont you stop poisining people with those be peanut buter caches.

[+Knight2000]

Perhaps Keystone was fast one the lock button with that one because he felt my original post was "trolling". After all the topic of multiple found logs is known to be quite controversial ...

 

... So why hasn't this thread been locked? There has been some name calling here. People have made claims about peanut allergeries that others have refered to as BS. Some of the comments on personal responsibility have gotted quited heated ...

 

... I realize my rant is off topic for this thread. If the moderators wish they can move this to a new thread on when controversial threads should be locked ...

I'm severely allergic to hastily locked threads.

I totally agree. Most posts in one way or another can be considered OT. I can understand why a post is off the original post but they usually apply to another post previous to theirs.

 

Many threads are hastily closed.

 

So far in this thread i have seen some interesting thoughts but i see little of how it affects caching. If you have any type of problem act accordingly. My wife is very allergic to most anything in nature. But she caches anyway and doesn't get mad that people put caches next to a tree that she is allergic to.

[+beezerb]

We're both allergic to bullets but have never suffered ill effects after opening an ammo can.

[+KBI]

Perhaps Keystone was fast one the lock button with that one because he felt my original post was "trolling". After all the topic of multiple found logs is known to be quite controversial ...

 

... So why hasn't this thread been locked? There has been some name calling here. People have made claims about peanut allergeries that others have refered to as BS. Some of the comments on personal responsibility have gotted quited heated ...

 

... I realize my rant is off topic for this thread. If the moderators wish they can move this to a new thread on when controversial threads should be locked ...

I'm severely allergic to hastily locked threads.

I totally agree. Most posts in one way or another can be considered OT.

I'm also severely allergic to unclear acronyms.

[+CYBret]

We're both allergic to bullets but have never suffered ill effects after opening an ammo can.

 

I'm allergic to bears. When I get too close to them I get big ugly teeth marks all over my body.

[+Knight2000]

I'm also severely allergic to unclear acronyms.

OT.

Sorry. I guess it does have more than one meaning.

[Sadie]

I am sure peanut butter jars are just fine if they are cleaned properly, like a good run through the dishwasher.

 

However, if there was any residue from food (peanut butter or anything else) I would likely react to whatever growth came out of it. Plus the smell of rotting food and/or mold would be enough to turn my stomach.

[+Always & Forever 5]

Once I found a night cache where you had to follow reflections to get to it. I left some matches in the container since it was dark. Then I learned it was wrong to do it.

 

So why dont you stop poisining people with those be peanut buter caches.

 

 

No matter how many times I read this, I still don't get it...

[+flask]

***there are laws regarding confidentiality, not to mention contractual concerns. often these cover medical and educational settings.***

 

But, if it was a matter of life and death...YOU should help others by disclosing what could save them.

 

i did. there's no need for you to have identifying material just so someone here can trust my information a little more (probably not any).

 

granted, he's an extreme case. you have all the information you need to make the accomodations. there is no reason for you to have a ton of details about the reactions or the situations, which might identify the person.

 

my point is STILL that it'd be a nice courtesy to let people know it's a peanut butter jar. i'm not sure why that comes down to a huge debate about personal resposibility.

 

here's all you need me to disclose to save people if it comes to life and death (paraphrasing you):

 

understand that the allergy could kill someone.

it's best to use a good container anyway. (editorial mine)

if you use a peanut butter jar (or any food container, really) give it a thorough washing (described above).

if you use a PB jar, mention it in the description.

 

none of these things are hard to do, and if you are filling your caches with good swag, if won't be hard at all to divert just a couple of dollars to buying a lock 'n' lock.

 

once again, these are not earth-shattering life-changing measures (although you wouldn't know it the way some folks go on whining about their freedoms- talk about people who need nannies!) they're just a couple of simple things you can do to help out a few people.

 

if you're not interested in helping, that's fine.

the op asked if it could be a problem. it can.

nobody is trying to curtail your right to spew film canisters/peanut butter jars all over the land.

it'd be real swell if while you're not helping, you're not dismissing folks to whom this information would be helpful.

[+sbell111]

I guess we are splitting hairs here. Maybe it is the proteins in the oil.

Ummm, oil isn't made up of protein.

I didn't say made how it is made. Maybe the item causing the trouble is in the oil.

 

Water isnt made of parasites but parasites can be in water.

How much free floating oil do you normally find in PB jar caches?

 

The protein that you are concerned about was left behind in the dishwasher.

[+sbell111]

<D'Oh!>

Edited July 16, 2007 by sbell111

[+Renegade Knight]

...Anyone who knowingly leaves a health hazard for someone to encounter and then claims it's the victims fault for picking is up is only deluding themselves that they have no responsibility in the matter.

 

I don't have the allergy, but one someone very dear to me does. You DO NOT have to eat the peanut butter. The allergy can be triggered merely by contacting a microscopic portion of the oils. This is a potentially deadly allergy, so please take it seriously.

 

If you have to use a food jar, try one of the new plastic mayo jars. They're bigger, anyway.

 

Everybody is allergic to something given world enough and time. For everthing you can place in a cache or make a cache out of, there is someone who is allergic to it. Thus every time we place a cache we are doing something that could impact someones allergy.

 

I agree that if you know that one of your finders is going to have a Peanut allergy, you should avoid a peanut jar. However we all have to get by in this world, and beyond direct knowledge, you just can't worry about it.

 

How many of you know what Phenylketonurics referrs too?

[+Renegade Knight]

I am sure peanut butter jars are just fine if they are cleaned properly, like a good run through the dishwasher....

 

FYI.

 

Peanut allergies for some reason are among the worst kind there is to have. It's so bad that if you read your food packageing that most companies will disclose " this product was made on equipment that may have processed peanuts." The mere contact with equipment (and this stuff is cleaned) that once processed peanuts can trigger the allergy.

[+Renegade Knight]

With the vast array of TRULY good containers available for very little investment, why would you even think about using a recycled food container?...

 

Because they are handy, cheap, and good recylcing.

[+IDLookout]

I'd never use any container that once had a food product in it where I cache.

 

A Grizzly or Black bear's most important sense organ is its nose.

 

Even washed multiple times, they could definitely still smell the food, and then it's bye bye cache.

[vagabond]

Once I found a night cache where you had to follow reflections to get to it. I left some matches in the container since it was dark. Then I learned it was wrong to do it.

 

So why dont you stop poisining people with those be peanut buter caches.

 

 

No matter how many times I read this, I still don't get it...

I just couldn't resist

 

[+flask]

i have concluded that black pearl is either satirical, a child, or not a native speaker of english.

 

troll comes further down my list.

[+sbell111]

i have concluded that black pearl is either satirical, a child, or not a native speaker of english.

 

troll comes further down my list.

I'm thinking 'sock puppet'.

[+Mudfrog]

Anyone with any kind of allergy is certainly going to have a pretty good idea of what they need to do to avoid exposure in everyday life. I have no doubt that a person who has a peanut allergy is definitely gonna know to take precautions when they came across a container that looks suspect. Camoed or not, a peanut butter jar is relatively easy to spot and i don't really see them as being an issue in this respect.

 

My main concern is that it might be difficult to get the smell out so that animals wouldn't be tempted to chew into it!

[+KBI]

I'm also severely allergic to unclear acronyms.

OT.

Sorry. I guess it does have more than one meaning.

Off Topic = OT

 

On Topic = OT

 

[+The SuzyQs]

SO I guess we all need to put a disclaimer on our cache pages that this cache was placed by a cacher that handles peanuts?

[Clan Riffster]

Are they any DOCUMENTED cases of cachers having an allergic reaction from finding a Peanut Butter jar cache?

Careful. We wouldn't want to limit our forum topics to just those concerns found in the real world, would we?

 

The participants in this thread are enjoying themselves.

Yeah. Where else can you bash a state you've never cached in, and a container that's never hurt anyone, all in the same thread?

[Gen Santa Ana 2]

How about this for a disclaimer:

 

Caution, this cache may have been found by someone that was eating a peanut butter sandwich. It is recomended that you have someone you do not know open the container. Then have them sign your name in the log book. IF they are alergic to peanuts, you can just leave, after all, the person is a stranger.

 

This thead made me hungry. I am going to make a peanut butter sandwhich

[+Knight2000]

How about this for a disclaimer:

 

Caution, this cache may have been found by someone that was eating a peanut butter sandwich. It is recomended that you have someone you do not know open the container. Then have them sign your name in the log book. IF they are alergic to peanuts, you can just leave, after all, the person is a stranger.

 

This thead made me hungry. I am going to make a peanut butter sandwhich

Just make sure you arent in a room with, aw nevermind.

[Screamin Pig]

I personally like Peanut Butter jar caches. They are a little bit smaller than ammo cans and seem to fit into more interesting places. In my vast caching experience (wait I'm a newbie) I have seen a bunch of wet ammo cans but all the PB jar caches were dry. As a kid I was allergic to milk products but I grew out of it so I know waht it is like to suffer through food allergies.

 

I think PB jars are fine because:

1) they are not in an enclosed place like an airplane

2) no one is forced to go caching

3) no one is forced to open a cache if they don't want to.

[+Driver Carries Cache]

The other day while I was signing a log the ammo can lid slammed down on the back of my head! The moral of the story... don't stick your head in an ammo can! This is of course a silly example, but it makes me wonder... what ever happened to personal responsibility?

 

Driver Carries Cache

[+Mule Ears]

In all seriousness, how could someone survive with a fatal allergy to minuscule quantities of such a common substance? Peanuts and foods containing peanuts are everywhere; you would think that it would be just a matter of time before the inevitable fatal exposure occurred.

[+Always & Forever 5]

The other day while I was signing a log the ammo can lid slammed down on the back of my head! The moral of the story... don't stick your head in an ammo can! This is of course a silly example, but it makes me wonder... what ever happened to personal responsibility?

 

Driver Carries Cache

Dang, man! This is the 21st century! We have no time for self responsibility and other such unimportant drivel! Blame me! Blame him! Blame somebody!

 

Sheesh. I'm deathly allergic to bee stings. I carry an Epipen. Please, for the sake of my life, don't anybody hide a cache in an area where bees might frequent. Like parks, wooded areas, grassy areas...um, actually, I guess, anywhere outdoors. Please make all future cache hides indoors. TPTB, please immediately archive all caches found outdoors, due to my own concerns for my personal safety. Or, at a minimum, please mandate a disclaimer to be placed on all cache pages, so all responsibility is removed from me and placed on everyone else in the world.

 

Thank you.

 

Edited July 16, 2007 by Always & Forever 5

[+TexasGringo]

***Please make all future cache hides indoors.***

 

But I keep my PEANUT BUTTER indoors....

[+Knight2000]

The other day while I was signing a log the ammo can lid slammed down on the back of my head! The moral of the story... don't stick your head in an ammo can! This is of course a silly example, but it makes me wonder... what ever happened to personal responsibility?

 

Driver Carries Cache

Dang, man! This is the 21st century! We have no time for self responsibility and other such unimportant drivel! Blame me! Blame him! Blame somebody!

 

Sheesh. I'm deathly allergic to bee stings. I carry an Epipen. Please, for the sake of my life, don't anybody hide a cache in an area where bees might frequent. Like parks, wooded areas, grassy areas...um, actually, I guess, anywhere outdoors. Please make all future cache hides indoors. TPTB, please immediately archive all caches found outdoors, due to my own concerns for my personal safety. Or, at a minimum, please mandate a disclaimer to be placed on all cache pages for me, so all responsibility is removed from me and placed on everyone else in the world.

 

Thank you.

 

I know who you can call if you get sick.

[Ann_Brush]

In all seriousness, how could someone survive with a fatal allergy to minuscule quantities of such a common substance? Peanuts and foods containing peanuts are everywhere; you would think that it would be just a matter of time before the inevitable fatal exposure occurred.

 

Like living down wind from the JIF factory

[+Mudfrog]

In all seriousness, how could someone survive with a fatal allergy to minuscule quantities of such a common substance? Peanuts and foods containing peanuts are everywhere; you would think that it would be just a matter of time before the inevitable fatal exposure occurred.

 

That's my take on all this as well. If it is as bad as some here want us to believe, then those with this allergy wouldn't stand too good a chance of surviving in this world. That is, if they lead a somewhat normal life which includes interacting with people and going places where other people have been.

 

I don't dismiss the fact that these allergies are real and on occasion, can cause death. But people who suffer with this know what they need to do to go on about their everyday life. I'm not sure why some want to blow this stuff so far out of proportion.

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

I love peanuts, I keep a 2 pound jar in my truck to snack on during the day and another one at home to snack on when I'm not working. Meeting me is probably more dangerous to an alergy sufferer than any pb jar cache.

[+tozainamboku]

In all seriousness, how could someone survive with a fatal allergy to minuscule quantities of such a common substance? Peanuts and foods containing peanuts are everywhere; you would think that it would be just a matter of time before the inevitable fatal exposure occurred.

This is exactly the reason that peanuts are the most common cause of life-threatening anaphylactic reactions accounting for 80% of the fatal or near-fatal allergeric reactions. There are probably not any more people who are allergic to peanuts than to anything else and probably most peanut allergies don't cause such severe reactions. But since peanuts and foods containing peanuts are everywhere, the number of these reactions caused by peanuts are far greater than any other cause. Since a very small amount of allergen can cause a reaction in a hypersensitive person, even foods that are simply processed in the same plant as peanuts can get contaminated enough to cause a reaction. People who are sensitive would probably avoid foods that are processed in plants where they might get contaminated. Similarly people who are sensitive might avoid touching cache containers that look like they formerly contained peanuts or peanut butter.

 

Over the weekend I went geocaching. I stopped for lunch and ate a peanut butter sandwich. Afterwards, I found the next cache - an ammo can. I sure hope I didn't leave any peanut butter residue on the latch of the ammo can just in case the next cacher to come along has a peanut allergy. I also see that someone DNF'd one of my caches. It's a pill bottle hidden in a oak tree. The cacher enjoyed the shade under the oak tree but when she started looking for the cache she noticed the honeybees living in the tree. She called off her hunt but logged that she has severe reaction to bee stings that kept her from getting to the cache. I guess that geocache can decide for themselves what caches they won't find because they find it too risky.

Edited July 16, 2007 by tozainamboku

[+TexasGringo]

If Peanuts and Peanut Butter Is So Dangerous...why don't the food stores lock them up in isolation instead of having them out in the isles where someone can get sick and sue them?

 

Some of the food markets where I go have huge boxes of open peanuts on the floor...you scoop out what you want. I have NEVER seen a dead person next to those boxes....or even one that is scratching.

[+TexasGringo]

It Is an Immune System Malfunction.....

 

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/peanut-al...0710/DSECTION=3

[+Mule Ears]

Tozainamboku, thanks for the info. I was just reading up on the subject on a variety of sites, and they confirm what you've said. WebMD says that those afflicted should never be without an epipen and Benadryl, since total avoidance is next to impossible.

 

Medical researchers have been experimenting with 'tolerization' regimens in which people are gradually exposed to increasing doses of peanut protein. They've had some success with this, which makes sense to me. I was allergic to tree sap as a kid, so I climbed trees constantly and came down with really hideous, oozing rashes to amaze my friends. Eventually, though, the allergy faded away and I had to find other ways to gross people out. Geocaching is the current phase of this trend...

 

Regarding the oil-versus-protein issue, it seems that enough protein can remain suspended in the oil to trigger a reaction, and apparently heating increases the allergenic effect of protein-contaminated oil (though the protein would not be considered a contaminant to anyone other than a person with the allergy).

 

I found the figure that one percent of the population has the sensitivity, but no figure as to the percentage of that group with the extreme, potentially lethal allergy. Interestingly, a Google search on peanut allergy turns up a lot of attorney-sponsored ads, which explains the airlines' overreaction.

[+JoeMerchant]

Looking at your stats (2,278 posts/1226 finds/20 hides) you might want to reconsider offering advise on hiding caches. But, you're definitely the go to guy for advise on posting.

Please tell me that you forgot to put the smiley on your post.

Nope, can't say I ever really considered a smiley, but then I don't have the experience posting that many of the folks here do. You think it might dress up my post a bit? BTW, since I now have cracked the 50 mark on posts, you reckon I can start giving advice on forum posting?

 

Is it your position that someone with 1226 finds and 20 hides doesn't have a right to discuss cache hiding?

He's got the right to do what ever he wants, and the question wasn't about "discussing" cache hiding, it was about making pronouncements about what a "reputable" container is.

 

Further, I think your snarky comment is pretty ironic considering that you only have 1007 finds (51 of which were events) and 20 finds (Conicidently, the same number of finds as the person you jumped on).

Snarky? I'm not embarrassed to say I had to look that up. Yep, I've only got 20 hides. That's why I'm not cranking out twelve hundred posts giving advice on what containers are "reputable".

 

BTW, advice on where I should have inserted smilies would be welcome from a poster of your experience.

[+TexasGringo]

***BTW, since I now have cracked the 50 mark on posts, you reckon I can start giving advice on forum posting?***

 

I have almost 250 posts and have not said anything worth a dang....So, quantity does not mean anything.