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Okay, I'll play some more while I wait for my laminator to warm up.

 

since when did the rejection of simple courtesy become a badge of freedom or liberty?

Since failure to comply gets one accused of wishing people confined to there homes and/or dead (please see your previous posts for relevant examples).

 

no one called for new rules. the OP asked what was appropriate for people with allergies.

And rather than suggest ways in which people with such rare and unique allergies could participate in the sport, suggestions flew about what the other 99.9999 percent of cachers should do to accomodate them. With, of course, no indication of any such individual encountering a problem while caching.

 

i love freedom and i love liberty. i would prefer to extend that freedom and liberty to those who may have a difficult time retaining theirs. if there is a cheap and easy way for me to help, i'm all over it.

I'll take you at your word and assume you're just a little off your game today with your posts.

 

you, apparently, would prefer to blame the public schools (how did THAT even come in?)

Please see posts 16, 17, 18, 20, and 45.

 

nannies, (once again, huh?) and the victims.

Victims? Hmmm. I've got allergies, but I've never considered myself a victim. Who would the perp be? God? Now I've been robbed at gun point. That really made me feel like a victim.

 

Now the wanna be protectors of the imagined armies of peanut allergic cachers. Those folks I'll blame.

 

i bet at the back of your head you're thinking that things were better off when these people just had the decency to die in infancy and not bother the rest of us.

Please refer to post above re: courtesy.

 

i still think it's a nice courtesy either to use an alternate container, or to mention the presence of a peanut butter jar on the description page. it's not very complex, and it's easy to do.

Then do it. Just don't assume that because I think it's silly means I want people dead or confined to their homes.

 

a lot of people love freedom and liberty, but only for themselves.

Uh huh. I know what you mean.

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While this debate rages on perhaps there is some middle ground that can be reached here. On the one side we have some of us deprived of our liberty to hide used food containers while on the other we have those who want to defend any cause currently running. Perhaps the best solution here would be a simple one and I am surprized the answer has yet to be raised. We simply ask Groundspeak to place a new attribute on the cache page to make people aware the container was used for food storage in the past. Then any allergy can be covered and no more possibilty for incident. It then places the responsibilty back on the cache seeker where it belongs in the first place in accordance with the guidelines. :tired:

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why not find an alternate container?

If given the choice between the PB Jar and the lock n lock i think most would choose the lock no lock.

 

But many cachers don't roll in money so the idea of using a free container certainly appeals. So if most had to choose between a free PB jar and a $4 lock n lock. I think the majority would choose the PB Jar.

 

The evidence are all the caches around us.

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why not find an alternate container?

If given the choice between the PB Jar and the lock n lock i think most would choose the lock no lock.

 

But many cachers don't roll in money so the idea of using a free container certainly appeals. So if most had to choose between a free PB jar and a $4 lock n lock. I think the majority would choose the PB Jar.

 

The evidence are all the caches around us.

 

The evidence shows me that they would choose the Lock n Lock. I see L n Ls all over and can't think of the last PB jar cache I've found.

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While this debate rages on perhaps there is some middle ground that can be reached here.

 

Yes, can we use Marshmallow Fluff jars instead?

 

Sound wisdom.

That way the cache don't kill ya........

Just makes you fat.

But that could be another debate all together.

 

On a somewhat serious note and in an attempt to post OT....

I'd personally stay away from using containers that once held any kind of food.

Not that I'd never found them and enjoyed them.........

 

Just me.

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While this debate rages on perhaps there is some middle ground that can be reached here. On the one side we have some of us deprived of our liberty to hide used food containers while on the other we have those who want to defend any cause currently running. Perhaps the best solution here would be a simple one and I am surprized the answer has yet to be raised. We simply ask Groundspeak to place a new attribute on the cache page to make people aware the container was used for food storage in the past. Then any allergy can be covered and no more possibilty for incident. It then places the responsibilty back on the cache seeker where it belongs in the first place in accordance with the guidelines. :tired:

 

Ah! A wise voice of moderation. Technology can solve the problem. First soap and hot water to clean containers and now a new Attribute Selection. Perhaps we could have different attributes for the various types of allergy sufferers that could be killed by logging a cache. I personally abhor shrub hunts. They get me so frustrated I come close to stroke and/or myocardial infarction (alas, cardiovascular ailments run in my family). A shrub hunt icon to warn me off would be nice. Unfortunately, we'd need to expand the limit beyond the current 10 allow. Perhaps a seperate page. GSAK could event be programed to download it separately like child waypoints. :D

Edited by Serial Finder
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Reading this thread got me to wondering how many people we are actually talking about here. According to the Mayo Clinic, as reported by CNN, it's about 1.5 million. That's about 0.5% of the current US population. Of course, not all of them cache. How many geocachers are there in the US? I don't know, but there are 45,606 registered users on gc.com. Half of one percent of that suggests that there are 228 people running around caching, who have an allergy to peanuts (or at least some sensitivity to them). The text from the article is below, if anyone is interested.

 

Just to place things in some kind of (hopefully) meaningful perspective here.

 

Remember too that even if, after this debate, everyone reading this decided to mention that their cache containers were recycled food jars, it would be essentially meaningless. Very few cachers ever bother to read the forums and I'm betting that many don't even know they exist.

 

Argue on! :tired:

 

 

 

From MayoClinic.com

Special to CNN.com

 

 

Introduction

 

Peanut allergy affects approximately 1.5 million people in the United States. As the most common cause of life-threatening allergic reactions (anaphylaxis), peanut allergies account for 80 percent of fatal or near-fatal allergic reactions each year. You can reduce your risk of having an allergic reaction to peanuts by knowing as much as you can about peanut allergy and how to avoid peanut-containing products.

Edited by Snake & Rooster
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Since we are asking for attributes could we get one for the different brand PB Jars? I am only allergic to certain brands of PB containers.

 

What would that attribute look like?

The odds are that one in two hundred cachers will have a peanut allergy and we have one on this thread already. I'm curious to hear from someone that would know....Have you ever had a reaction to a peanut butter jar cache container? My guess is that you would just avoid them. Also doesn't it help if they are washed (which they are)? Edited by TrailGators
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First of all, I think that food containers make terrible cache containers. Generally, they are not waterproof. (Yes, I have seen the lists of six-year old peanut butter containers.) I've also found a few "Chinese Food Containers" caches. Not a good choice either. Found a Folger's coffee container today. that might last a few months.

Secondly, if you cannot afford the $5 Lock n Lock, maybe you should reconsider hiding caches. That's not a lot of money, and resolves many problems.

But, as Astro-D pointed out: Cache seekers assume all risks involved in seeking a cache. We all agree to that when seeking a cache.

The geo-nannies want to protect us from everything. (Okay, I do think it a good idea to label Peanut Butter containers as such. Read the labels carefully: May contain nuts, eggs, fish, chicken, chocolate, coffee... Anything that anyone might be allergic to!)

Myself, I've contracted Lyme Disease twice, had a nasty case of poison ivy that turned into allergic dermatitis. I'm deathly afraid of railroad trestles, and climbing trees. I'm not too fond of kayaking. And break out in a nervous rash in cemeteries. But I'm not asking geocaching to ban any of those (or the caches where I've contracted diseases.) I assume all responsibilities.

I saw a five-gallon bucket of adhesive that I shipped to a foreign country. Rather nasty stuff. It had a 'nanny-clause' label on it: "Do not leave this container right side up when empty. It may collect rainwater, and a small child may fall into it and drown." Huh?

Not being allergic to peanuts, I think rather that geocaching should ban all caches on abandoned railroad trestles, or that require crossing abandoned railroad trestles. Yo have your problems. I have mine. But you have set Geo-Nanny out to protect all of us!

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If you have a allergicsy (i dont) to peanut butter can you get it by reaching into a peanut butter jar cache container? :anibad:

 

 

oh to end all this ranting..

 

The answer to your question in YES

 

To help back up your point there was a teen that died from kissing her boyfriend HOURS after he had eaten a peanut butter sandwich. Oh, wait, never mind. Her death wasn't cause by a peanut butter sandwich.

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washing the container well may be sufficient, but isn't in all cases.

 

there's no reason a cacher can't just avoid the container. in cases where a cacher hikes all day to arrive at a container and then can't open it, i'd be pretty hacked if it were me.

 

hides next to the road, i wouldn't care about.

 

i have found caches that contain things to which i am allergic. i simply drop the cache in the open and run away.

no, seriously. i very quickly scribble my name on any page, close the blasted thing up and get away.

 

and hope.

 

i also think that peanut butter jars are poor containers. if the peanut butter jar is the gold standard in your area, you may wish to move to an area where people take the trouble to use durable containers that you can really fit trade items into.

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If you have a allergicsy (i dont) to peanut butter can you get it by reaching into a peanut butter jar cache container? :anibad:

 

 

oh to end all this ranting..

 

The answer to your question in YES

 

To help back up your point there was a teen that died from kissing her boyfriend HOURS after he had eaten a peanut butter sandwich. Oh, wait, never mind. Her death wasn't cause by a peanut butter sandwich.

 

A cousin of a friend of a gecacher I met at event once (or was it in a bar) got kidnapped by space aliens shortly after eating a bag of trail mix that contained peanuts.

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...if you cannot afford the $5 Lock n Lock, maybe you should reconsider hiding caches...

After reading your post I reconsidered whether I should continue hiding caches. :anibad: After much consideration I decided that, yes, I will continue hiding them. :) And I will do so based on my own cost/benefit analysis rather than yours. Just thought you'd like to know. :P

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...if you cannot afford the $5 Lock n Lock, maybe you should reconsider hiding caches...

After reading your post I reconsidered whether I should continue hiding caches. :anibad:After much consideration I decided that, yes, I will continue hiding them.

 

darn. don't be such a tease.

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Forget the PB Jars, forget the lock and lock, forget the ammo can...

 

JUST HIDE A 35MM FILM CANISTER. They are FREE and I haven't ever heard of anyone that was allergic to film.

 

Eurika! That's It! Picture the USA carpeted with Film Cans! Back Brake Billy, fire up the Micro Gun!

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I'm an adult geocacher with severe peanut and tree nut allergies. I react to airborne peanut (the smell, not people throwing them at me). My nose runs after a quick smell and if I'm around it for more than a few minutes, I start to wheeze. Forget about eating any peanuts or tree nuts. . . I ended up in the ER a few months ago from a tiny bite of walnut. Anaphylactic shock is no fun at all, nor is injecting yourself with an Epi-Pen. That sucker hurts! But, of course, it's nicer than death. :anibad:

 

I'm relatively new at this geocaching thing and haven't run across any peanut butter caches. I already have gloves, Benadryl, and antibacterial wipes in my bag, just in case of any stray nuts that happen across my path. (kidding about the stray nuts, but not the supplies) I really didn't realize that it was a common container. I guess that I'm warned now, huh? It doesn't seem to be the best choice in containers from the standpoint of attracting animals. Peanut oil residue is very sticky, so the container really does need a good washing to get rid of it.

 

If I did happen to come across a peanut butter container, I wouldn't reach into it, mostly out of anxiety based on past reactions, but not because I really think that I would react from it. I most likely wouldn't react from a well-washed out container, but I'm not signing up to test that theory. I would have my kids dump out the cache on the ground and do their thing. I'd get my eldest boy to sign the log for me, then have them put it all back together. If I was alone, I'd probably just leave it be and log online my reason for not signing the log.

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I'm an adult geocacher with severe peanut and tree nut allergies. I react to airborne peanut (the smell, not people throwing them at me). My nose runs after a quick smell and if I'm around it for more than a few minutes, I start to wheeze. Forget about eating any peanuts or tree nuts. . . I ended up in the ER a few months ago from a tiny bite of walnut. Anaphylactic shock is no fun at all, nor is injecting yourself with an Epi-Pen. That sucker hurts! But, of course, it's nicer than death. :anibad:

 

I'm relatively new at this geocaching thing and haven't run across any peanut butter caches. I already have gloves, Benadryl, and antibacterial wipes in my bag, just in case of any stray nuts that happen across my path. (kidding about the stray nuts, but not the supplies) I really didn't realize that it was a common container. I guess that I'm warned now, huh? It doesn't seem to be the best choice in containers from the standpoint of attracting animals. Peanut oil residue is very sticky, so the container really does need a good washing to get rid of it.

 

If I did happen to come across a peanut butter container, I wouldn't reach into it, mostly out of anxiety based on past reactions, but not because I really think that I would react from it. I most likely wouldn't react from a well-washed out container, but I'm not signing up to test that theory. I would have my kids dump out the cache on the ground and do their thing. I'd get my eldest boy to sign the log for me, then have them put it all back together. If I was alone, I'd probably just leave it be and log online my reason for not signing the log.

 

Salute! It's nice to see that my assumption was correct. Having an allergy doesn't mean you need a gaggle of nannies. Allergic folks are as capable as exercising personal responsibility as the rest of us. My faith in geocachers, if not nannies, has been restored.

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...if you cannot afford the $5 Lock n Lock, maybe you should reconsider hiding caches...

After reading your post I reconsidered whether I should continue hiding caches. :anibad: After much consideration I decided that, yes, I will continue hiding them. :) And I will do so based on my own cost/benefit analysis rather than yours. Just thought you'd like to know. :P

 

Thanks for informing me. It's good that you can afford a GPSr, and the gas money/bicycle to get to the cache, but can't spring for a reputable container. Glad you're not in my area. Hey, I had Chinese food over the weekend. Should I send you some Chinese food containers? They usually last at least a week.

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While this debate rages on perhaps there is some middle ground that can be reached here.

 

Yes, can we use Marshmallow Fluff jars instead?

 

Yes, we can!! Actually, I think screw top plastic is pretty good, as good as a lock-n-lock. It's no ammo box, but it's no film canister or Chinese food container either. :P

 

Oh, and :anibad:

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...if you cannot afford the $5 Lock n Lock, maybe you should reconsider hiding caches...

After reading your post I reconsidered whether I should continue hiding caches. :anibad: After much consideration I decided that, yes, I will continue hiding them. :) And I will do so based on my own cost/benefit analysis rather than yours. Just thought you'd like to know. :P

 

Thanks for informing me. It's good that you can afford a GPSr, and the gas money/bicycle to get to the cache, but can't spring for a reputable container. Glad you're not in my area. Hey, I had Chinese food over the weekend. Should I send you some Chinese food containers? They usually last at least a week.

 

No, I stole my GPS and I only cache when I can bum a ride. Chinese food! Man there's a dumpster right behind a place called Chinese Takee Out than has primo eats. Never thought of using it as a caching supply. But hey, are some folks allergic to MSG?

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why not find an alternate container?

If given the choice between the PB Jar and the lock n lock i think most would choose the lock no lock.

 

But many cachers don't roll in money so the idea of using a free container certainly appeals. So if most had to choose between a free PB jar and a $4 lock n lock. I think the majority would choose the PB Jar.

 

The evidence are all the caches around us.

 

The evidence shows me that they would choose the Lock n Lock. I see L n Ls all over and can't think of the last PB jar cache I've found.

In this area we see many more free containers than lock n locks. Pill bottles, vitamin bottles, film canisters, deli tubs, PB jars...

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I was away most of the day and had to catch up, but couldn't get past this:

 

i know three people with deadly peanut allergies. one has an allergy so severe that simply breathing in a room where you're eating a pb&j could kill him.

 

I'm going to have to call a BS on this. He may believe it, and you might have believed it when he told you. Not saying you made it up. But I'm still calling a BS.

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...if you cannot afford the $5 Lock n Lock, maybe you should reconsider hiding caches...

After reading your post I reconsidered whether I should continue hiding caches. :anibad: After much consideration I decided that, yes, I will continue hiding them. :) And I will do so based on my own cost/benefit analysis rather than yours. Just thought you'd like to know. :P

 

Thanks for informing me. It's good that you can afford a GPSr, and the gas money/bicycle to get to the cache, but can't spring for a reputable container. Glad you're not in my area. Hey, I had Chinese food over the weekend. Should I send you some Chinese food containers? They usually last at least a week.

 

Looking at your stats (2,278 posts/1226 finds/20 hides) you might want to reconsider offering advise on hiding caches. But, you're definitely the go to guy for advise on posting.

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I was away most of the day and had to catch up, but couldn't get past this:

 

i know three people with deadly peanut allergies. one has an allergy so severe that simply breathing in a room where you're eating a pb&j could kill him.

 

I'm going to have to call a BS on this. He may believe it, and you might have believed it when he told you. Not saying you made it up. But I'm still calling a BS.

 

Would you believe that he was force fed peanuts on the mothership?

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...if you cannot afford the $5 Lock n Lock, maybe you should reconsider hiding caches...

After reading your post I reconsidered whether I should continue hiding caches. :anibad: After much consideration I decided that, yes, I will continue hiding them. :) And I will do so based on my own cost/benefit analysis rather than yours. Just thought you'd like to know. :P

 

Thanks for informing me. It's good that you can afford a GPSr, and the gas money/bicycle to get to the cache, but can't spring for a reputable container. Glad you're not in my area. Hey, I had Chinese food over the weekend. Should I send you some Chinese food containers? They usually last at least a week.

 

Looking at your stats (2,278 posts/1226 finds/20 hides) you might want to reconsider offering advise on hiding caches. But, you're definitely the go to guy for advise on posting.

 

What do the numbers have to do with anything? Maybe he just hasn't submitted all his hides yet. Maybe he has another account where he submits most of his hides. How can a person be judged solely on the numbers when the numbers aren't even an accurate representation of ones caching ability? How many times was the same event cache logged? How can you even compare one persons stats to another. Wait a second. I think I'm replying in the wrong thread. Never mind, carry on with judging someone by their numbers.

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...if you cannot afford the $5 Lock n Lock, maybe you should reconsider hiding caches...

After reading your post I reconsidered whether I should continue hiding caches. :anibad: After much consideration I decided that, yes, I will continue hiding them. :) And I will do so based on my own cost/benefit analysis rather than yours. Just thought you'd like to know. :P

 

Thanks for informing me. It's good that you can afford a GPSr, and the gas money/bicycle to get to the cache, but can't spring for a reputable container. Glad you're not in my area. Hey, I had Chinese food over the weekend. Should I send you some Chinese food containers? They usually last at least a week.

 

Looking at your stats (2,278 posts/1226 finds/20 hides) you might want to reconsider offering advise on hiding caches. But, you're definitely the go to guy for advise on posting.

That was certainly uncalled for! You don't need to be a genius to figure caching out. Most of it is simple common sense (which isn't so common.)

 

Anyway- what exactly do you think people need to offer advice? Finding 1,000 caches certainly gives you perspective on what works and what doesn't!

 

You should apologize. (Yes- i am serious.)

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I'll have to agree to the common sense part.....

 

First, my wife is basically allergic to alot of stuff to which we have no room to even post here...(mold is one of them)....one of the first times she was driving and she ran out of her asthma meds, and almost passed out on the road...she managed to get to her her mom's house and they took her to the hosptial....she was unconscious for the next 7 days...she finally woke up and we have learned our lesson. We carry Epi-pens now. we recongnize the dangers and we try to prevent. We continue to geocache.

 

I am sure people allergic to peanut butter didn't just find out yesterday. They have been living with this curse for a long time. Snakes are dangerous and , if you are allergic to alligators, or peanuts, you learn how to recognize the dangers and sufficiently protect against it.

 

I am sure that peanut sufferers realize that people are people and they are going to use food containers (apparently someone did or else they wouldn't have suggested not to use them). It is a part of the risk they take to attracting animals to their cache and having it destroyed etc...

 

If it was me, peanut butter is the last thing on my mind when I go caching (snakes, bears, and alligators, oh my! ), but if I see the silhouette of a peanut butter container, and if I was allergic to peanut butter, darn tootin' I will recognize the danger....

 

Just as the more hidden danger that Mcdonalds burgers are making me fat (someone tried to sue Mcdonalds saying that they made him fat, but he lost. They stated the responsibility was his to stop eating there.) , you have the same danger eating ground meat(ecoli), chicken ( salmonella), and lettuce ( ecoli again).

 

Stop being a nannie and live life. Have someone say ..." he died doing what he loved..geocaching!" instead of "he died in a cubicle...maybe he should have dieted." If you didn't die, you now have a heck of a geocaching story to share!

 

As far as the OP goes ...I am sure you cold never wash out the nut out of a jar, but why should I let a perfectly good clean cammoed free weather tight container go to waste? 99.5% of geocachers will be fine and the other .5 will see the danger. I am fine with hiding it or finding it. I am prepeared for the danger...I wouldn't be caching if I was not. :anibad::P

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That was certainly uncalled for! You don't need to be a genius to figure caching out. Most of it is simple common sense (which isn't so common.)

 

Finding 1,000 caches certainly gives you perspective on what works and what doesn't!

 

You should apologize. (Yes- i am serious.)

That perspective depends on where you do most of your caching though.

Finding 1000 caches in say Northern NJ usually entails years, and hundreds of miles of hiking in the mountains while looking for ammo cans and L&Ls.

1000 caches in say Jacksonville, FL is more like 150 miles of driving over the course of a nice weekend, hopping out of the car ever 600ft or so to grab a hide-a-key or film canister off a dumpster.

In one area 1000 finds means you are a hardcore, long time cacher. In another area it means you're a noob who just started this month.

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...if you cannot afford the $5 Lock n Lock, maybe you should reconsider hiding caches...

After reading your post I reconsidered whether I should continue hiding caches. :anibad: After much consideration I decided that, yes, I will continue hiding them. :) And I will do so based on my own cost/benefit analysis rather than yours. Just thought you'd like to know. :P

 

Thanks for informing me. It's good that you can afford a GPSr, and the gas money/bicycle to get to the cache, but can't spring for a reputable container. Glad you're not in my area. Hey, I had Chinese food over the weekend. Should I send you some Chinese food containers? They usually last at least a week.

 

Looking at your stats (2,278 posts/1226 finds/20 hides) you might want to reconsider offering advise on hiding caches. But, you're definitely the go to guy for advise on posting.

 

What do the numbers have to do with anything? Maybe he just hasn't submitted all his hides yet. Maybe he has another account where he submits most of his hides. How can a person be judged solely on the numbers when the numbers aren't even an accurate representation of ones caching ability? How many times was the same event cache logged? How can you even compare one persons stats to another. Wait a second. I think I'm replying in the wrong thread. Never mind, carry on with judging someone by their numbers.

 

Seems like a reasonable approach to take a look at ones stats when weighing the worth of their advice. Numbers aren't the "sole" determinate of experience, nor are they irrelevant. I don't see anything in that post that questioned anyone's "caching ability". The cacher being quoted felt himself qualified to opine on what containers are "reputable". Seems like one might need to hide a few caches before drawing such conclusions. But then it might be difficult to maintain such a high post/find ratio by confining your posts to things you know about.

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Forget the PB Jars, forget the lock and lock, forget the ammo can...

 

JUST HIDE A 35MM FILM CANISTER. They are FREE and I haven't ever heard of anyone that was allergic to film.

3 out of 4 in our group are allergic to the moldy logs that those contain.

 

Everyone in our group is allergic to taking caching advice from cachers that have more posts than finds. Oh dang here we go with the numbers again... But we have learned to take that advise with a grain of salt and cache on. We have accepted the dangers and it is now our responsibility, not the responsibility of gc.com or the hiders.

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Everyone in our group is allergic to taking caching advice from cachers that have more posts than finds. Oh dang here we go with the numbers again... But we have learned to take that advise with a grain of salt and cache on. We have accepted the dangers and it is now our responsibility, not the responsibility of gc.com or the hiders.

Don't take advice then.

 

My main point is that in most instances film cans make bad containers for caches. Not all instances, but most.

 

What difference does it make how many posts someone has? Does that mean that they can't add something good to a discussion?

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1000 caches in say Jacksonville, FL is more like 150 miles of driving over the course of a nice weekend, hopping out of the car ever 600ft or so to grab a hide-a-key or film canister off a dumpster.

 

Which you know because you've found so many there.

Ahhh, see the problem with judging by find counts?

 

Look again at mine. You'll see I stopped logging online over 2yrs ago, yet I still cache. Did a bunch just today. Nobody but me has any idea what or how many I have or have not found.

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1000 caches in say Jacksonville, FL is more like 150 miles of driving over the course of a nice weekend, hopping out of the car ever 600ft or so to grab a hide-a-key or film canister off a dumpster.

 

Which you know because you've found so many there.

Ahhh, see the problem with judging by find counts?

 

Look again at mine. You'll see I stopped logging online over 2yrs ago, yet I still cache. Did a bunch just today. Nobody but me has any idea what or how many I have or have not found.

 

Well good for you buckeroo. The beauty is that nobody cares how many you have or have not found so everything works out right. Just the same, I can tell by your description of caching in Jacksonville how many you've found. But then you've never been one to let lack of knowledge stand in the way of of your post count.

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