+reptlcal Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 If you have a allergicsy (i dont) to peanut butter can you get it by reaching into a peanutbutter jar cache container? Quote Link to comment
Mushtang Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 The world is a dangerous place. Anyone that is hyper allergic to peanuts, and chooses on their own to reach into an old peanut butter jar, is taking the risk themselves. It's not up to us to make everything completely and totally safe for everyone while searching for one of our caches. Besides, I believe you actually have to eat some peanut to have a reaction, not just touch it. Quote Link to comment
+Road Rabbit Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 The world is a dangerous place. Anyone that is hyper allergic to peanuts, and chooses on their own to reach into an old peanut butter jar, is taking the risk themselves. It's not up to us to make everything completely and totally safe for everyone while searching for one of our caches. Besides, I believe you actually have to eat some peanut to have a reaction, not just touch it. Anyone who knowingly leaves a health hazard for someone to encounter and then claims it's the victims fault for picking is up is only deluding themselves that they have no responsibility in the matter. I don't have the allergy, but one someone very dear to me does. You DO NOT have to eat the peanut butter. The allergy can be triggered merely by contacting a microscopic portion of the oils. This is a potentially deadly allergy, so please take it seriously. If you have to use a food jar, try one of the new plastic mayo jars. They're bigger, anyway. Quote Link to comment
Mushtang Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 (edited) The world is a dangerous place. Anyone that is hyper allergic to peanuts, and chooses on their own to reach into an old peanut butter jar, is taking the risk themselves. It's not up to us to make everything completely and totally safe for everyone while searching for one of our caches. Besides, I believe you actually have to eat some peanut to have a reaction, not just touch it. Anyone who knowingly leaves a health hazard for someone to encounter and then claims it's the victims fault for picking is up is only deluding themselves that they have no responsibility in the matter. I don't have the allergy, but one someone very dear to me does. You DO NOT have to eat the peanut butter. The allergy can be triggered merely by contacting a microscopic portion of the oils. This is a potentially deadly allergy, so please take it seriously. If you have to use a food jar, try one of the new plastic mayo jars. They're bigger, anyway. What about those people that are deathly allergic to egg products? You're okay with mayo jars but peanut butter jars are bad because a friend of yours is allergic. There are venomous snakes in the woods that have bitten people. I suppose we shouldn't hide caches in the woods anymore. We're deluding ourselves. What about those people that are allergic to getting killed in a car accident on the way to a cache? I guess we shouldn't hide them where people have to drive in order to get to them. Edited July 15, 2007 by Mushtang Quote Link to comment
+stites1 Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Three cheers for the Bubble Boy! Quote Link to comment
+dkwolf Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 (edited) With the vast array of TRULY good containers available for very little investment, why would you even think about using a recycled food container? It is very difficult to completely remove the food smell, and just because you can't smell it does not mean an animal with a sense of smell thousands of times more powerful than ours can't. Good way to get a cache destroyed by a member of the animal kingdom. Go buy a lock 'n' lock. Oh, and as far as the allergy..have you flown on a commercial airliner with someone who is peanut-allergic? They won't serve their little snack mix to that entire SECTION of the plane if it contains nuts, and several airlines have switched completely to a nut-free snack mix. (on a side note, I'll never forget the bastich sitting across the aisle from me on one flight...right after they made the announcement that an alternate snack mix would be served in the best interest of someone in the section with a nut allergy, he opened his briefcase, took out a jar of peanuts and started munching...) Edited July 15, 2007 by dkwolf Quote Link to comment
+Cardinal Red Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Note: The Bubble Boy comment is in very poor taste. I have formed an opinion of the poster based on that comment. Just because I think I am not responsible for a strangers allergy, it doesn't mean I am not sympathetic. I understand School Administrators banning bringing peanut products into a school when there is an identified allergy sufferer attending. It could be a matter of life and death in a setting the sufferer has little control over. But in the rest of the world, it's up to adults to protect themselves. You have an expectation that your family and friends will be extremely cautious, but don't try to make the rest of the world responsible. If you are a severely allergic Geocacher (peanuts, eggs, whatever) - carry disposable gloves, and don't trade anything. It is good to make us aware of this problem. I should be aware, but an allergic adult is responsible for their own health. Here is some information I googled because I wanted to find out how widespread this problem is: Although an individual could be allergic to any food, such as fruits, vegetables, and meats, there are eight foods that account for 90% of all food-allergic reactions. These are: milk, egg, peanut, tree nut (walnut, cashew, etc.), fish, shellfish, soy, and wheat. Although 25 percent of people think they're allergic to certain foods, studies show that about only 8 percent of children and 2 percent of adults have a food allergy. It seems many children outgrow their allergies, thus the difference noted above between 8% and 2%. For some, allergies will be a life long condition. Quote Link to comment
+IceCreamMan Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Cheese n rice. Now I remember why I stay away from these forums (a friend decided to rattle my cage by sending me a link to this thread). First of all, I have no peanut or egg allergies and I don't really know anyone who does. While the TV tells me such folks exist, I can't say that I stay awake nights thinking about how I need to structure my life around keeping them from going into anaphylactic shock. I do however have an allergy to dairy products that keeps me on the toilet after too much ice cream (A real curse for IceCreamMan). But I digress. Secondly, I frequently use a container that many refer to as a "Peanut Butter Jar". It is, in fact, the container in which a local supermarket deli receives their hard boiled eggs. Mrs ICM works at the deli and therefore we have a steady supply. Not only do I place numerous caches in these containers (after cammo painting them, of course), I give them away at events (also cammo painted). It has become common in this area for cachers to refer to them as "ICM containers", even when they aren't mine. If you think lock n locks are a good buy. Knock yourself out. I'll use the containers I find to be appropriate, you do the same. Thirdly, I have suffered many injuries while caching, from scratched shins to a leg wound that cost upwards of eighty grand to get healed, and it's still not completely healed after almost four years. Not only did I not consider such injuries to be, in ANY way, the responsibility of the wonderful folks who've hidden caches for me to hunt, I considered these occurrences to be all part of the adventure. If you don't have that kind of outlook, you might want to think about taking up another pastime. Finally, if you expect hiders to be responsible for your allergies, don't hunt my caches. If you expect hiders to be responsible for snake bites, spider bits or bee stings, don't hunt my caches. If you expect hiders to be responsible for scratches, bruises, fractures or sore feet, please, don't hunt my caches. If you expect hiders to be responsible for your saftey in ANY way, up to and including abduction by space aliens, please, please, please, PLEASE! Do NOT hunt my caches. But if you're the fun sort, looking for some adventure, hoping to see some way cool spots, not averse to cranking up some smileys and willing to assume responsibility for yourself when you leave the house, by all means come out and hunt some of my stashes. Shoot me an email, and I'll even take you for a Jeep ride. BTW, I have these really neat containers... Quote Link to comment
+Serial Finder Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Yikes! Maybe that explains all those bodies I've been finding. Quote Link to comment
+TexasGringo Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 I have a few Caches made from Metamucil bottles...Now I'm afraid if someone touches it....they gotta go...and can't get home in time. Quote Link to comment
+Knight2000 Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 If you have a allergicsy (i dont) to peanut butter can you get it by reaching into a peanutbutter jar cache container? If a person really had that problem then they should carry gloves. We carry gloves although not for this reason. Also the cache hider probably cleaned out the container enough so this wouldn't be a problem. Quote Link to comment
Jackmerlin1 Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 my friend alergic and he a cache peanut butter jar and he aint get an attack jackmerlin1 Quote Link to comment
+Trucker Lee Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 If you have a allergicsy (i dont) to peanut butter can you get it by reaching into a peanutbutter jar cache container? Shouldn't be a problem, I think. Wouldn't the jar be cleaned first? Failure to do so would not only endanger someone one with allergies, but attract critters to the cache (needs maintenance) and get the contents all sticky. Quote Link to comment
+Knight2000 Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 my friend alergic and he a cache peanut butter jar and he aint get an attack jackmerlin1 Quote Link to comment
Dinoprophet Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Wow, lots of venom over the suggestion that people watch out for each other a little bit. But never mind allergies. Used food containers are almost always a bad idea anyway. Plunk down five bucks for a water-tight, freeze-resilient Lock and Lock. Quote Link to comment
+bwmick Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Here in Ontario we have Sabrina's law which directs schools to make sure they take all necessary precautions to ensure the safety of children with allergies. Some adult only workplaces have bans on nuts to (if the allergy sufferer is vocal enough) I have plans to use a pair of PB containers one inside the other. I will make sure that the container type is listed on the cache page just as I would any other perceived hazards that one may experience while finding a cache. I know several people with peanut allergies, I know lots of parents with kids with food allergies. It doesn't mean that the parent doesn't get to eat whatever they want, it just means they have to be selective when and how they eat it. You cannot protect yourself from everything, especially food type stuff. I noticed today that a local grocery has disinfectant wipes by the grocery cart pick up. make people aware before they get to the cache site and realize that they don't want to open it. As to the lingering odor of the container, life's a risk if an animal trashes it I will have to go out and replace it. Bwmick Quote Link to comment
+Knight2000 Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Here in Ontario we have Sabrina's law which directs schools to make sure they take all necessary precautions to ensure the safety of children with allergies. Some adult only workplaces have bans on nuts to (if the allergy sufferer is vocal enough) My kid has a sever allergy to walnuts. Paramedics need called if he consumes even a small amount. The school solution is to just send him to the office if they think they have fed it to him so we can come take him home. They dont seem to care in the cafeteria one way or another. Quote Link to comment
+TrailGators Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Here in Ontario we have Sabrina's law which directs schools to make sure they take all necessary precautions to ensure the safety of children with allergies. Some adult only workplaces have bans on nuts to (if the allergy sufferer is vocal enough) I have plans to use a pair of PB containers one inside the other. I will make sure that the container type is listed on the cache page just as I would any other perceived hazards that one may experience while finding a cache. I know several people with peanut allergies, I know lots of parents with kids with food allergies. It doesn't mean that the parent doesn't get to eat whatever they want, it just means they have to be selective when and how they eat it. You cannot protect yourself from everything, especially food type stuff. I noticed today that a local grocery has disinfectant wipes by the grocery cart pick up. make people aware before they get to the cache site and realize that they don't want to open it. As to the lingering odor of the container, life's a risk if an animal trashes it I will have to go out and replace it. Bwmick Just curious if you washed the jar in a dishwasher, if that would remove all the peanut residue? Quote Link to comment
+Knight2000 Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Just curious if you washed the jar in a dishwasher, if that would remove all the peanut residue? I would think so. Rinsing- no Washing- yes My son once got in the tab the day after my wife took a bath with some kind of body wash or bath salts or something. He got a rash all over. The culprit was the bath extra thingy my wife used. It said it could contain trace amounts of walnut oil. Even though it had been a day and the tub was drained it was still there. I cant imagine that washing a container thoroughly wouldn't take care of any issues though. Quote Link to comment
+dkwolf Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Here in Ontario we have Sabrina's law which directs schools to make sure they take all necessary precautions to ensure the safety of children with allergies. Some adult only workplaces have bans on nuts to (if the allergy sufferer is vocal enough) I have plans to use a pair of PB containers one inside the other. I will make sure that the container type is listed on the cache page just as I would any other perceived hazards that one may experience while finding a cache. I know several people with peanut allergies, I know lots of parents with kids with food allergies. It doesn't mean that the parent doesn't get to eat whatever they want, it just means they have to be selective when and how they eat it. You cannot protect yourself from everything, especially food type stuff. I noticed today that a local grocery has disinfectant wipes by the grocery cart pick up. make people aware before they get to the cache site and realize that they don't want to open it. As to the lingering odor of the container, life's a risk if an animal trashes it I will have to go out and replace it. Bwmick Just curious if you washed the jar in a dishwasher, if that would remove all the peanut residue? Judging from my personal experience with dishwashers failing to remove even visible food particles, I would say absolutely NOT. The only way I would consider any food container safe to be used as a cache would be after a thorough hand washing, and at minimum a rinse in bleach. But then again, I'll spend the $5 on a Lock'n'Lock. I don't want to have to replace the container after the first freeze, or after the sun deteriorates the cheap plastic and it cracks. Quote Link to comment
+Cpt.Blackbeard Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 I know one peanut butter jar cache that was placed about two year ago, no animal has ever bothered it and unlike most of the other non-ammo box containers in this area the contents are still dry and in great shape. No doubt it's postion under a rock helps keep the rain off it but an animal would have no trouble getting it out if they so desired. Of course we don't have bears or cougars here either, one of them might treat it differently. As long as you state that the container is a pb jar let the finder beware. Quote Link to comment
+Mopar Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 (edited) The world is a dangerous place. Anyone that is hyper allergic to peanuts, and chooses on their own to reach into an old peanut butter jar, is taking the risk themselves. It's not up to us to make everything completely and totally safe for everyone while searching for one of our caches. Besides, I believe you actually have to eat some peanut to have a reaction, not just touch it. Anyone who knowingly leaves a health hazard for someone to encounter and then claims it's the victims fault for picking is up is only deluding themselves that they have no responsibility in the matter. I don't have the allergy, but one someone very dear to me does. You DO NOT have to eat the peanut butter. The allergy can be triggered merely by contacting a microscopic portion of the oils. This is a potentially deadly allergy, so please take it seriously. If you have to use a food jar, try one of the new plastic mayo jars. They're bigger, anyway. Food containers are generally poor cache containers anyway. But still...... this post really smacks of nanny-stateism. You CAN NOT protect everyone in the world from themselves. The people with rare conditions usually know they have them, and need to take their own precautions. School is one thing, you HAVE to go to school. Sorry, you don't have to find every geocache in the world; or ANY geocaches for that matter. I know of one local cacher who is severely allergic to poison ivy. He has to cover up so much he might as well be in a bubble. But he wants to cache and this is what he needs to do to protect himself. I've never heard him call for a ban on all caches near poison ivy. Forget the peanut butter container. That's probably been well washed out, or it would have been chewed up by a critter already. What about the logbook? What if the last person to sign it was eating trailmix with nuts? Maybe we should just ban all geocachers from eating nuts. Even better, treat nuts like we do guns. I mean, what if a bag or jar spills in the supermarket? These nuts need to be regulated. There should be special nut stores that make sure children and criminals cant buy nuts. People that do want to buy them should need a nut permit. To get one they first have to get a background check and undergo training on how to safely handle and eat them without endangering others. Edited July 15, 2007 by Mopar Quote Link to comment
+TrailGators Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 The world is a dangerous place. Anyone that is hyper allergic to peanuts, and chooses on their own to reach into an old peanut butter jar, is taking the risk themselves. It's not up to us to make everything completely and totally safe for everyone while searching for one of our caches. Besides, I believe you actually have to eat some peanut to have a reaction, not just touch it. Anyone who knowingly leaves a health hazard for someone to encounter and then claims it's the victims fault for picking is up is only deluding themselves that they have no responsibility in the matter. I don't have the allergy, but one someone very dear to me does. You DO NOT have to eat the peanut butter. The allergy can be triggered merely by contacting a microscopic portion of the oils. This is a potentially deadly allergy, so please take it seriously. If you have to use a food jar, try one of the new plastic mayo jars. They're bigger, anyway. Food containers are generally poor cache containers anyway. But still...... this post really smacks of nanny-stateism. You CAN NOT protect everyone in the world from themselves. The people with rare conditions usually know they have them, and need to take their own precautions. School is one thing, you HAVE to go to school. Sorry, you don't have to find every geocache in the world; or ANY geocaches for that matter. I know of one local cacher who is severely allergic to poison ivy. He has to cover up so much he might as well be in a bubble. But he wants to cache and this is what he needs to do to protect himself. I've never heard him call for a ban on all caches near poison ivy. Forget the peanut butter container. That's probably been well washed out, or it would have been chewed up by a critter already. What about the logbook? What if the last person to sign it was eating trailmix with nuts? Maybe we should just ban all geocachers from eating nuts. Even better, treat nuts like we do guns. I mean, what if a bag or jar spills in the supermarket? These nuts need to be regulated. There should be special nut stores that make sure children and criminals cant buy nuts. People that do want to buy them should need a nut permit. To get one they first have to get a background check and undergo training on how to safely handle and eat them without endangering others. You're a nut! Quote Link to comment
+Serial Finder Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 They can take my nuts from my cold dead hand. Quote Link to comment
+IceCreamMan Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Food containers are generally poor cache containers This seems to be a repetitive theme in this thread. I disagree, at least when it comes to these jars. I've hidden well over a hundred of these containers after simply rinsing them well with hot water and painting them. I've never had much of a problem. They don't disappear any faster than ammo cans. Less so perhaps, because they are less obtrusive and less desirable to muggles. An occassional one will fail to be water-tite, but not too often. I picked one up last month that had been out for a couple years and it was still dry as a bone. Other than the good swag having been magically transformed into rubber lizzards it was still in great shape. Nothing beats an ammo can, but these containers work just fine and are very versatile. At $5 for a lock n lock, why not go the full route and get an ammo can? Quote Link to comment
+Knight2000 Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 What lock n lock costs $5? Quote Link to comment
+wordnerd Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 . If you have an "allergicsy," don't eat the cache. . Quote Link to comment
Dinoprophet Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 At $5 for a lock n lock, why not go the full route and get an ammo can? That's preferable of course. I'm in an area where most parks want clear containers. What lock n lock costs $5? I believe that's what I paid at Wally World for my 4L. Why, do you think I got a deal or I got ripped off? Quote Link to comment
+Knight2000 Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 What lock n lock costs $5? I believe that's what I paid at Wally World for my 4L. Why, do you think I got a deal or I got ripped off? If it was at wally world then i am sure you didnt. 4L. Wow, that is pretty big. We rarely have seen caches that big. Quote Link to comment
+Miragee Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 This cache, in a peanut butter jar, has been in place since March of 2001. It has been found 252 times . . . Quote Link to comment
+reptlcal Posted July 15, 2007 Author Share Posted July 15, 2007 Cheese n rice. Now I remember why I stay away from these forums (a friend decided to rattle my cage by sending me a link to this thread). First of all, I have no peanut or egg allergies and I don't really know anyone who does. While the TV tells me such folks exist, I can't say that I stay awake nights thinking about how I need to structure my life around keeping them from going into anaphylactic shock. I do however have an allergy to dairy products that keeps me on the toilet after too much ice cream (A real curse for IceCreamMan). But I digress. Secondly, I frequently use a container that many refer to as a "Peanut Butter Jar". It is, in fact, the container in which a local supermarket deli receives their hard boiled eggs. Mrs ICM works at the deli and therefore we have a steady supply. Not only do I place numerous caches in these containers (after cammo painting them, of course), I give them away at events (also cammo painted). It has become common in this area for cachers to refer to them as "ICM containers", even when they aren't mine. If you think lock n locks are a good buy. Knock yourself out. I'll use the containers I find to be appropriate, you do the same. Thirdly, I have suffered many injuries while caching, from scratched shins to a leg wound that cost upwards of eighty grand to get healed, and it's still not completely healed after almost four years. Not only did I not consider such injuries to be, in ANY way, the responsibility of the wonderful folks who've hidden caches for me to hunt, I considered these occurrences to be all part of the adventure. If you don't have that kind of outlook, you might want to think about taking up another pastime. Finally, if you expect hiders to be responsible for your allergies, don't hunt my caches. If you expect hiders to be responsible for snake bites, spider bits or bee stings, don't hunt my caches. If you expect hiders to be responsible for scratches, bruises, fractures or sore feet, please, don't hunt my caches. If you expect hiders to be responsible for your saftey in ANY way, up to and including abduction by space aliens, please, please, please, PLEASE! Do NOT hunt my caches. But if you're the fun sort, looking for some adventure, hoping to see some way cool spots, not averse to cranking up some smileys and willing to assume responsibility for yourself when you leave the house, by all means come out and hunt some of my stashes. Shoot me an email, and I'll even take you for a Jeep ride. BTW, I have these really neat containers... I my self like findin PB containers because they're big. BTW, nice camo! Quote Link to comment
+uxorious Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 I have found a few food containers recycled as caches. Seems to me, most of the time the cache page notes it as such. Unless it would give it away, it would be best to mention what kind of food container was used for the hide. After that it is up to the seeker to use what caution fits their needs. Quote Link to comment
+flask Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 my workplace is peanut and tree-nut free. including our cafeteria. some surfaces have to be wiped down a couple of times a day with a special solution that will remove minute amounts of the oils. my supervisor said: it sounds like a pain, but is it worth a dead kid? people with severe nut allergies do not necessarily need to eat nuts to have a deadly reaction. in many cases it is sufficient to touch a contaminated object or even to breathe in airborne particles. most of these people carry epinephrine and know how to use it, but the reaction can be so fast and severe that they're dead in minutes. they know to be on guard when there is food around, but may be surprised to find a cache that's a peanut butter jar unless the description says so. if the description lists the container as being a peanut butter jar, the responsibility is with the finder. if there is no warning, the responsibility is with the hider. i'm not willing to ask people with severe peanut allergies not to play simply because i have a spare peanut butter jar. why not find an alternate container? Quote Link to comment
+TrailGators Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 All I know is that choosy cachers choose Jif! Quote Link to comment
+Wayfinders Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 This thread needs jelly. Quote Link to comment
Stephen2 Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 i'm not willing to ask people with severe peanut allergies not to play simply because i have a spare peanut butter jar. why not find an alternate container? I don't know. That just seems a bit extreme. If the container works then there shouldn't be an issue. To me that is like asking the grocery store to stop carrying something because you are allergic to it. Quote Link to comment
vagabond Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 I know one peanut butter jar cache that was placed about two year ago, no animal has ever bothered it and unlike most of the other non-ammo box containers in this area the contents are still dry and in great shape. No doubt it's postion under a rock helps keep the rain off it but an animal would have no trouble getting it out if they so desired. Of course we don't have bears or cougars here either, one of them might treat it differently. As long as you state that the container is a pb jar let the finder beware. Here's a cache that was a Mr. Peanut jar 1lb if I remember correctly that I replaced after 3 years out in the sun,it looked as good as the day I placed it, and no critter problems either Quote Link to comment
+flask Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 i'm not willing to ask people with severe peanut allergies not to play simply because i have a spare peanut butter jar. why not find an alternate container? I don't know. That just seems a bit extreme. If the container works then there shouldn't be an issue. To me that is like asking the grocery store to stop carrying something because you are allergic to it. not really. when you go to the grocery store, you know there's peanut butter and nut products there. you don't have to reach blind into a hollow log to find out. by "if the container works", do you mean "there's a flimsy second-hand container that will be mostly waterproof for a while, may attract animals and could possibly kill a person"? i'm sure other people's problems don't seem extreme to you. at what point do you consider a thing to be worth the courtesy of supplying a lock 'n' lock? how many cachers have to have the allergy for you to care that much? one in a thousand? one in a hundred? one in ten? one in five? or does it have to come down to you personally? i bet it wouldn't seem extreme then. it'd be nice for those folks to be able to trust that they're not hunting a peanut butter jar. if you really have to use one, would it be too extreme to mention it in the description? or is that too many keystrokes and therefore too much trouble? Quote Link to comment
+Astro_D Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 All I can ask is what happened to responsibility for one's self? I distinctly remember reading Geocaching disclaimer that Cache seekers assume all risks involved in seeking a cache. would take this to include personsal health risks as well as physical risks. I know my health limitations. Therefore, it's up to me to decide if the cache is safe enough to hunt, not the cache owner's responsibility to make it safe for me. In fairness, would it be beneficial to list what type of container is used on the cache page? No question it would. But by doing so, it might well give away part of the fun of finding the cache. Quote Link to comment
Luckless Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Sorry to sound as if I'm excluding anyone from geocaching, but anyone with severe allergies would do well to consider another pastime or be prepared to accept the consequences. Even if I make a note that my container is a peanut butter jar there are things such as travel bugs that go from cache to cache and you can't be sure if the travel bug you are picking up has been in a peanut butter jar previously. Quote Link to comment
+flask Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 you know, there's a lot of truth to arguments about personal responsibility, but it's really very simple not to use a peanut butter jar. it's a very small effort and can really help people. why is that extreme or unreasonable? we usually mention when a cache is wheelchair accessible. it's a little courtesy we can extend. it is a very small thing we can do to make someone's life easier. should we help people? i don't know; it seems so extreme. i mean, all that trouble of using a different jar. and it's so hard to put "peanut butter jar" into the description. people with allergies shouldn't ask for normal people to make so many sacrifices. well, they didn't. i did. i'm sorry for all the hardship that this will invariably cost you. Quote Link to comment
+IceCreamMan Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 why not find an alternate container? 'cause they are easily available, versatile, water-tite, I enjoy hiding them and most folks seem to find them without keeling over. one word - EpiPen Quote Link to comment
+IceCreamMan Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 but it's really very simple not to use a peanut butter jar. it's a very small effort and can really help people. why is that extreme or unreasonable? Yes, it's not only unreasonable, it ridiculous. Exactly how many cachers have had health issues due to a cache container? Yet we're supposed to organize our lives on the off chance someone with an extreme allergy won't bother to notice that the container looks an awful lot like a peanut butter jar before reaching in for the log. Puleeze. we usually mention when a cache is wheelchair accessible. it's a little courtesy we can extend. it is a very small thing we can do to make someone's life easier. Hardly an apt analogy. Mentioning it is a far cry from not hiding caches that can't be accessed in a wheel chair. Furthermore, there's lots of people in wheelchairs. The number of people with deadly peanut allergies is tiny. It's just been over dramatized by the nannies out there. Now some schools put a higher priority on being nut free (if only they actually were) than on teaching kids to read, not to mention teaching them to assume some responsibility for themselves. It ain't the nuts in the jars that we need to worry about. It the ones exercising power than actually worry about non-sense like this. should we help people? Yep. And I chose to help them by finding cool spots and hiding swag packed caches there for them to find. In a cost effective maner, of course. Quote Link to comment
+reptlcal Posted July 15, 2007 Author Share Posted July 15, 2007 This thread needs jelly. Very funny lol This is now the PB&J cache containers page. lol (kidding) Quote Link to comment
+flask Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 but it's really very simple not to use a peanut butter jar. it's a very small effort and can really help people. why is that extreme or unreasonable? Yes, it's not only unreasonable, it ridiculous. Exactly how many cachers have had health issues due to a cache container? Yet we're supposed to organize our lives on the off chance someone with an extreme allergy won't bother to notice that the container looks an awful lot like a peanut butter jar before reaching in for the log. Puleeze. we usually mention when a cache is wheelchair accessible. it's a little courtesy we can extend. it is a very small thing we can do to make someone's life easier. Hardly an apt analogy. Mentioning it is a far cry from not hiding caches that can't be accessed in a wheel chair. Furthermore, there's lots of people in wheelchairs. The number of people with deadly peanut allergies is tiny. It's just been over dramatized by the nannies out there. Now some schools put a higher priority on being nut free (if only they actually were) than on teaching kids to read, not to mention teaching them to assume some responsibility for themselves. It ain't the nuts in the jars that we need to worry about. It the ones exercising power than actually worry about non-sense like this. should we help people? Yep. And I chose to help them by finding cool spots and hiding swag packed caches there for them to find. In a cost effective maner, of course. wow. i am stunned. i have an acquaintance at work with a severe allergy. we have a cute name for people who knowingly expose her to items that may harm her. we call them "defendants". only one person has to be successfully prosecuted in order for people to at least pretend they get the message. i know three people in wheelchairs. i know three people with deadly peanut allergies. one has an allergy so severe that simply breathing in a room where you're eating a pb&j could kill him. i know, i know. you'd like him to stay at home his entire life so that you don't have to be inconvenienced. after all, it's his own fault for trying to go out. so he does this: he asks ahead if there's a peanut-free alternative. since you don't have the money to use a lock 'n' lock, maybe you could mention it on the cache page? i don't have a peanut allergy, but i do have some other allergies. i know that the next time i have to call an ambulance because of an allergic reaction, i will really resent it if you're around to tell me that my concerns about it are, as you put it, nonsense. the thing about schools is that we have an obligation to teach ALL of our community's children in the least restricted environment. we have areas of our school that are nut-safe (and they really are; we have a very strict and effective protcol) and we have areas where peanut products are permitted. if you really need to use nut products, you can stay in those areas. we do not apologize for this. even one dead kid is too big a price not to be careful. we know we have one kid who could die if we're not careful. we do not feel it's fair to keep him in isolation. you probably would think it's fine. imagine what it would be like if it were you, or someone you cared about. wait, nevermind. your response would probably be to insist that you wouldn't ask for any special favors. it's an assumption i'm making based on my impression of you as lacking compassion. Quote Link to comment
+IceCreamMan Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 but it's really very simple not to use a peanut butter jar. it's a very small effort and can really help people. why is that extreme or unreasonable? Yes, it's not only unreasonable, it ridiculous. Exactly how many cachers have had health issues due to a cache container? Yet we're supposed to organize our lives on the off chance someone with an extreme allergy won't bother to notice that the container looks an awful lot like a peanut butter jar before reaching in for the log. Puleeze. we usually mention when a cache is wheelchair accessible. it's a little courtesy we can extend. it is a very small thing we can do to make someone's life easier. Hardly an apt analogy. Mentioning it is a far cry from not hiding caches that can't be accessed in a wheel chair. Furthermore, there's lots of people in wheelchairs. The number of people with deadly peanut allergies is tiny. It's just been over dramatized by the nannies out there. Now some schools put a higher priority on being nut free (if only they actually were) than on teaching kids to read, not to mention teaching them to assume some responsibility for themselves. It ain't the nuts in the jars that we need to worry about. It the ones exercising power than actually worry about non-sense like this. should we help people? Yep. And I chose to help them by finding cool spots and hiding swag packed caches there for them to find. In a cost effective maner, of course. wow. i am stunned. i have an acquaintance at work with a severe allergy. we have a cute name for people who knowingly expose her to items that may harm her. we call them "defendants". only one person has to be successfully prosecuted in order for people to at least pretend they get the message. i know three people in wheelchairs. i know three people with deadly peanut allergies. one has an allergy so severe that simply breathing in a room where you're eating a pb&j could kill him. i know, i know. you'd like him to stay at home his entire life so that you don't have to be inconvenienced. after all, it's his own fault for trying to go out. so he does this: he asks ahead if there's a peanut-free alternative. since you don't have the money to use a lock 'n' lock, maybe you could mention it on the cache page? i don't have a peanut allergy, but i do have some other allergies. i know that the next time i have to call an ambulance because of an allergic reaction, i will really resent it if you're around to tell me that my concerns about it are, as you put it, nonsense. the thing about schools is that we have an obligation to teach ALL of our community's children in the least restricted environment. we have areas of our school that are nut-safe (and they really are; we have a very strict and effective protcol) and we have areas where peanut products are permitted. if you really need to use nut products, you can stay in those areas. we do not apologize for this. even one dead kid is too big a price not to be careful. we know we have one kid who could die if we're not careful. we do not feel it's fair to keep him in isolation. you probably would think it's fine. imagine what it would be like if it were you, or someone you cared about. wait, nevermind. your response would probably be to insist that you wouldn't ask for any special favors. it's an assumption i'm making based on my impression of you as lacking compassion. lol. A friend of mine sent me this link knowing that it would get me going. If this were the beginning of April I'd be expecting someone to be yelling, "April Fools" right about now. I'm glad you're stunned as I didn't have my phazer set to kill. "Defendants"? Hmmmm. Wonder if any of their lawyers have ever heard the term - assumption of the risk? If not they may want to seek new counsel. I wouldn't presume to tell your friend when and whether to leave the house. It's not up to me to manage their life. I only ask the courtesy that you and your friend not presume to manage mine. I did not say that your concerns about your own allergies are non-sense. I'm not sure that they ever came up. As I recall, this thread was about an imagined risk to cachers with deadly allergies that may or may not event exist. As for the schools, as soon as the goverment schools start coming close to meeting their obligation to TEACH, then I say they should be free to start making locker to locker searches for peanuts. Of all the risks in caching, this seems to be one best dealt with by those few individuals actually at risk, rather than a bunch of panicked nannies (or is in ninnies, I'm not sure which is more aprapro) here's another word - perspective Quote Link to comment
+flask Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 your honor, the prosecution rests. Quote Link to comment
+IceCreamMan Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 your honor, the prosecution rests. Guilty of Felonious Practice of Freedom and Misdemeanor Expectation of Liberty. Quote Link to comment
+flask Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 your honor, the prosecution rests. Guilty of Felonious Practice of Freedom and Misdemeanor Expectation of Liberty. since when did the rejection of simple courtesy become a badge of freedom or liberty? no one called for new rules. the OP asked what was appropriate for people with allergies. i love freedom and i love liberty. i would prefer to extend that freedom and liberty to those who may have a difficult time retaining theirs. if there is a cheap and easy way for me to help, i'm all over it. you, apparently, would prefer to blame the public schools (how did THAT even come in?), nannies, (once again, huh?) and the victims. i bet at the back of your head you're thinking that things were better off when these people just had the decency to die in infancy and not bother the rest of us. i still think it's a nice courtesy either to use an alternate container, or to mention the presence of a peanut butter jar on the description page. it's not very complex, and it's easy to do. since you apparently equate courtesy with abridgement of your freedoms, you will not wish to play along. a lot of people love freedom and liberty, but only for themselves. Quote Link to comment
+Glenn Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 (edited) It is up to the person with any medical condition to manage their own condition and not anyone else. That being said I am not against accommodating someones medical condition after they have let me know of their condition and the accommodations are reasonable. In addition will do more to accommodate someone who's condition could result in death then someone who's condition may cause a little discomfort. What's that called? Oh yeah, common sense. ----- A quick edit b4 the speling and gramor and sentence structor police rips me post a part. Edited July 15, 2007 by Glenn Quote Link to comment
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