Questionable objects in caches

[+Rockin Roddy]

kids are smarter than given credit...but why even argue about it in the first place? Follow the guidelines.

[+sbell111]

kids are smarter than given credit...but why even argue about it in the first place? Follow the guidelines.

Has anyone been arguing? My quick scan of the thread found almost every post to be a 'me, too'.

[+welch]

 

Recently while geocaching I found a travel bug that is a functional zippo lighter. Should I leave it in the next cache I visit, throw it away, or offer to mail it back to the owner?

 

I vote for taking the flint out, *and if its been soaked in fluid, the sponge material too) then releasing it again.

 

But what if a child finds it, reinstalls the flint and wick and sets the woods on fire?

I'm not sure too many kids carry around flint and wick with them to fix zippos. But if they did, you have the problem you'd have if they carry around a 9v and steel wool, or charcloth and a striker. They could, if they choose burn down the forest, but hopefully they've been taught and will reember that being an arsonist would be bad.

[oldguy1]

when...where? what's the link?

 

OOOps. Reading these posts, I just found out I shouldn't leave mints in the caches. Anyone object to lottery scratchoffs?

 

Oldguy1

[oldguy1]

4 years...will it still light? I wondered about the matches not being mentioned but...also...check my edited log above...I thought of that after posting.

 

What if the parents are busy looking in another area while the kids make the find flask? Too many variables to discount the kid argument!

Would it be any different (using your argument) for a knife?? I mean surely you're standing over the youngsters constantly while on the hunt...right?

 

I teach Junior High through High School. Believe me, if it takes stupidity, a young cacher can do it.

 

[+Knight2000]

Anyone object to lottery scratchoffs?

 

Oldguy1

Someone will object to anything left.

 

Gambling is wrong.

 

It is certainly within the guidelines and most would say it is acceptable.

[+DudleyGrunt]

Hello out there. Lately I've been finding Bic lighters in caches. I take them out as I don't feel they are appropriate. But reading the 'rules' there really is no mention of them. But with all the kids caching I just feel it's a bad idea. Any opinions?

 

I recently found a cache with marijuana stems, rolling paper, cigarettes, a lighter, and a condom in it. They'd been left by muggles (druggles?) who'd stumbled upon the cache while out partying in the woods.

 

Of course, I removed it all and put some extra swag in it. I did not leave a geocoin I was going to drop, though. Didn't want to chance them finding it if they returned.

 

Dave

[+Team Sand Dollar]

I have remove many knives (have quite a collection now), matches, lighters, live ammo, and fireworks from caches. These thing although not dangerous to all, they do give the wrong impression of geocaching.

 

The thing to think about here is how these items are perceived by others. We need to always maintain the kid and environment friendly appearance of geocaching.

 

It only takes one lame action to get caches band from an area.

 

Team Sand Dollar

[+flask]

when...where? what's the link?

 

OOOps. Reading these posts, I just found out I shouldn't leave mints in the caches. Anyone object to lottery scratchoffs?

 

Oldguy1

 

lottery tickets are only a tax on stupid people.

[+Miragee]

Google Ads want us to buy more lighters to not put in caches:

 

 

[+Knight2000]

Why is ammo dangerous? They are pretty much benign unless you have gun.

[+ScarabDrowner]

for things like crayons or other kid-friendly items that may melt if it gets too hot, put them in their own little baggie. Then if they do melt, then only the crayons are ruined, not the entire cache.

[+pv_seattle]

I'm new to geocaching and I have come accross religious pamphlets in a few geocaches. I'm not personally "offended" but I don't think it is appropriate as a cache item. Should I just remove and throw away such things?

 

Thanks,

 

Patrick

[+Knight2000]

I'm new to geocaching and I have come accross religious pamphlets in a few geocaches. I'm not personally "offended" but I don't think it is appropriate as a cache item. Should I just remove and throw away such things?

 

Thanks,

 

Patrick

Religious items are acceptable under the current guidelines. You should only remove them if you trade fairly for them.

 

(I would also remove w/o trading if they were damaged like being wet/moldy/rusty. But i do that with any damaged item i find in a cache.)

[+maasman72]

 

Recently while geocaching I found a travel bug that is a functional zippo lighter. Should I leave it in the next cache I visit, throw it away, or offer to mail it back to the owner?

 

I vote for taking the flint out, *and if its been soaked in fluid, the sponge material too) then releasing it again.

 

But what if a child finds it, reinstalls the flint and wick and sets the woods on fire?

 

Then you're screwed anyway. If a child is that smart and can get the replacement flint and wick and get them installed properly, you've got more than a forest fire to worry about, lol!

[68-eldo]

While I do not condone putting a lighter in a cache where muggle children can find it I do have a couple of comments I would like to make.

 

1) You cannot child proof the planet. No mater how hard you try there will always be something else that is a hazard. How much of the swag left in caches could be considered a choking hazard? If it’s too big to be a choking hazard will it hurt them if it is bounced off their head? Maybe all swag should be Nerfware.

 

1) Parents should not rely on other people to keep their children safe. It’s important to teach your own children to be safe, do the right thing and be responsible when they are alone. While everyone should watch out for children and help keep them safe anybody that relies on others to keep their children safe will be in for a big disappointment.

[+maasman72]

In defense to the people leaving them they are probably trying to think of something of something new to leave you can only leave so many mcdonalds toys and dollor store items no matter what anyone leaves someone else is not going to like it. Keep an eye on your kids and know where they are at i have a 2year old an a 9 year old and a lighter and matches in the kitchen drawer they leave them alone because the know what fire does and they know they are not supposed to have them in fact my oldest daughter came and got me when the kid down the road had one which he took from his moms purse lets face it they are everywhere including knives a geocache is the last place you should worry about kids getting one every one should go to your kitchen lock up you knifes and lighters or teach your kids how dangerous the are. Ok I'll get off my soap box now happy geocaching

Edited July 13, 2007 by maasman72

[+Team Sand Dollar]

Why is ammo dangerous? They are pretty much benign unless you have gun.

 

Or a hammer and a vise.

 

Team Sand Dollar

[+The Leprechauns]

Why is ammo dangerous? They are pretty much benign unless you have gun.

 

Or a hammer and a vise.

 

Team Sand Dollar

Or a campfire at Boy Scout camp.

 

Not that I'd know anything about that.

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

i don't buy the kid argument. a child mature enough to cache alone is mature enough not to be stupid with a lighter. a child caching with a parent has adequate supervision.

Its not about kids caching alone!

 

Its about kids that arent caching finding it alone!

 

And that is actually a very good point, it's the ones you don't expect that will get it.

[+mousekakat]

OK... tonight I eat my words

 

Went to a beautiful cache at the top of a mountain today...

 

After searching a while, we found the cache.

 

Major disappointment on the sprog's face.

 

Inside it was 2 boxes of matches, one which had spilled all over the place, a lighter, some old lipgloss that had been opened, a trashy gargoyle head, a hair bobby pin, and bandaids.

 

We removed everything and chunked it except for the bandaids and replaced it with quite a bit of more appropriate things for a cache.

 

I can understand the matches and lighter, there was a cabin with a stove in it and also a grill at the top of the mountain, but all the same. The log book was filled with kids' signatures from school trips and stuff.

 

Matches and lighters are a no-go!

 

*although I'm still straddling the line with the zippo TB

[+welch]

Why is ammo dangerous? They are pretty much benign unless you have gun.

 

1. Its perceived as an dangerous adult item not suitable for kids or morons, thus its not good for the family friendly image.

2. If you try hard enough you can probably get one to go off without a gun, which would probably be a safety problem (and again not family friendly looking).

 

I'm new to geocaching and I have come accross religious pamphlets in a few geocaches. I'm not personally "offended" but I don't think it is appropriate as a cache item. Should I just remove and throw away such things?

 

Thanks,

 

Patrick

Religious items are acceptable under the current guidelines. You should only remove them if you trade fairly for them.

 

(I would also remove w/o trading if they were damaged like being wet/moldy/rusty. But i do that with any damaged item i find in a cache.)

I thought religious items might be viewed as commerical/solicitations

Caches that Solicit

 

Solicitations are off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

[+Knight2000]

1. Its perceived as an dangerous adult item not suitable for kids or morons, thus its not good for the family friendly image.

2. If you try hard enough you can probably get one to go off without a gun, which would probably be a safety problem (and again not family friendly looking).

I understand how people perceive them.

 

You would have to try very very hard to hurt anyone with one if you didn't have a gun.

 

Putting live ammunition in a fire would do nothing but make a popping noise like a firecracker. Although i doubt it would be that loud.

 

I doubt the hammer and vice but i have no proof either way.

 

I guess used brass would be ok for a sig item.

[+TrailGators]

Why is ammo dangerous? They are pretty much benign unless you have gun.

 

1. Its perceived as an dangerous adult item not suitable for kids or morons, thus its not good for the family friendly image.

2. If you try hard enough you can probably get one to go off without a gun, which would probably be a safety problem (and again not family friendly looking).

 

I'm new to geocaching and I have come accross religious pamphlets in a few geocaches. I'm not personally "offended" but I don't think it is appropriate as a cache item. Should I just remove and throw away such things?

 

Thanks,

 

Patrick

Religious items are acceptable under the current guidelines. You should only remove them if you trade fairly for them.

 

(I would also remove w/o trading if they were damaged like being wet/moldy/rusty. But i do that with any damaged item i find in a cache.)

I thought religious items might be viewed as commerical/solicitations

Caches that Solicit

 

Solicitations are off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

The listing can't solicit. What's inside isn't covered other than food or dangerous items like knifes. Matches or lighters don't belong in caches.

[Skylerdragon]

Hello out there. Lately I've been finding Bic lighters in caches. I take them out as I don't feel they are appropriate. But reading the 'rules' there really is no mention of them. But with all the kids caching I just feel it's a bad idea. Any opinions?

 

I've read several of the responses. I like all the arguments against leaving things such as lighters and ammunition in caches. The environmental perspective, social responsibility aspect and general image of geocaching arguments are all excellent. The best of all though is common sense. Lighters just aren't good ideas in my opinion.

[Neos2]

Why is ammo dangerous? They are pretty much benign unless you have gun.

 

1. Its perceived as an dangerous adult item not suitable for kids or morons, thus its not good for the family friendly image.

2. If you try hard enough you can probably get one to go off without a gun, which would probably be a safety problem (and again not family friendly looking).

 

I'm new to geocaching and I have come accross religious pamphlets in a few geocaches. I'm not personally "offended" but I don't think it is appropriate as a cache item. Should I just remove and throw away such things?

 

Thanks,

 

Patrick

Religious items are acceptable under the current guidelines. You should only remove them if you trade fairly for them.

 

(I would also remove w/o trading if they were damaged like being wet/moldy/rusty. But i do that with any damaged item i find in a cache.)

I thought religious items might be viewed as commerical/solicitations

Caches that Solicit

 

Solicitations are off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

The listing can't solicit. What's inside isn't covered other than food or dangerous items like knifes. Matches or lighters don't belong in caches.

Having the cache page put forth an agenda is certainly not acceptable, but caches can also solict if they have materials in them that are solicitous. I'd be a bit peevish if someone used my cache for their platform.

 

I have no objection to someone dropping off nice swag associated with a cause or an idea, be it a political campaign button, a nice piece of religious regalia or paraphernalia, or a pamphlet about saving the whales, but I don't particularly want anyone loading the box full of any one of those. Geocaching is supposed to be a fun, lighthearted, pastime, not a free sales showroom.

[+TrailGators]

Why is ammo dangerous? They are pretty much benign unless you have gun.

 

1. Its perceived as an dangerous adult item not suitable for kids or morons, thus its not good for the family friendly image.

2. If you try hard enough you can probably get one to go off without a gun, which would probably be a safety problem (and again not family friendly looking).

 

I'm new to geocaching and I have come accross religious pamphlets in a few geocaches. I'm not personally "offended" but I don't think it is appropriate as a cache item. Should I just remove and throw away such things?

 

Thanks,

 

Patrick

Religious items are acceptable under the current guidelines. You should only remove them if you trade fairly for them.

 

(I would also remove w/o trading if they were damaged like being wet/moldy/rusty. But i do that with any damaged item i find in a cache.)

I thought religious items might be viewed as commerical/solicitations

Caches that Solicit

 

Solicitations are off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

The listing can't solicit. What's inside isn't covered other than food or dangerous items like knifes. Matches or lighters don't belong in caches.

Having the cache page put forth an agenda is certainly not acceptable, but caches can also solict if they have materials in them that are solicitous. I'd be a bit peevish if someone used my cache for their platform.

 

I have no objection to someone dropping off nice swag associated with a cause or an idea, be it a political campaign button, a nice piece of religious regalia or paraphernalia, or a pamphlet about saving the whales, but I don't particularly want anyone loading the box full of any one of those. Geocaching is supposed to be a fun, lighthearted, pastime, not a free sales showroom.

I agree. There is a balance. I've never seen anyone load up a cache with stuff like that, so this is really a non-issue.

[+boda]

1. Its perceived as an dangerous adult item not suitable for kids or morons, thus its not good for the family friendly image.

2. If you try hard enough you can probably get one to go off without a gun, which would probably be a safety problem (and again not family friendly looking).

I understand how people perceive them.

 

You would have to try very very hard to hurt anyone with one if you didn't have a gun.

 

Putting live ammunition in a fire would do nothing but make a popping noise like a firecracker. Although i doubt it would be that loud.

 

I doubt the hammer and vice but i have no proof either way.

 

I guess used brass would be ok for a sig item.

Actually it is very, very easy to hurt someone with ammunition and no gun.

I watched as a man died because rescuers could not reach him due to ammunition cooking off in the fire. Although I was behind rocks, the bullets flying overhead made an interesting sound.

The hammer and vise is a well-known method of "playing" with ammunition and causing it to go off. Hitting a bullet with a BB fired from a BB gun works, too.

 

Changing subject:

I have found a few caches, and I have never, ever found anything dangerous or questionable in a cache. Am I alone? I'm not doubting that it happens, but I'm just curious how as to how serious this problem really is. Is this just a random event during a caching career, or something you run into every day?

 

Edit to correct spelling

Edited July 14, 2007 by boda

[+boda]

Double post

Edited July 14, 2007 by boda

[+TrailGators]

I have found a few caches, and I have never, ever found anything dangerous or questionable in a cache. Am I alone? I'm not doubting that it happens, but I'm just curious how as to how serious this problem really is. Is this just a random event during a caching career, or something you run into every day?

It is rare. I found one cache with a pocket knife, which I removed.

[+Knight2000]

Actually it is very, very easy to hurt someone with ammunition and no gun.

I watched as a man died because rescuers could not reach him due to ammunition cooking off in the fire. Although I was behind rocks, the bullets flying overhead made an interesting sound.

No disrespect intended but this seems too much for me to beleive. Would you happen to have an article or any other info on this?

[+boda]

No disrespect intended but this seems too much for me to beleive. Would you happen to have an article or any other info on this?

I also mean no disrespect. It happened in Germany about 35 years ago, and I said that I was there.

 

I did happen to find an article that touches on the subject. It comes from USA Today on 10/11/06 and I am only quoting the first part.

 

Militiamen firing from a nearby neighborhood hit an ammunition dump on a U.S. base in Baghdad with a mortar, setting off fiery explosions that lasted for hours, the U.S. military said Wednesday.

Four mortar rounds fired from the nearby Abu Dashira neighborhood hit Forward Operating Base Falcon around 10:40 p.m. Tuesday, and one of the 82mm rounds hit the ammunition dump, spokesman Lt. Col. Jonathan Withington said. No injuries were reported.

 

"Intelligence indicates that civilians aligned with a militia organization were responsible for last night's mortar attack," Withington said.

 

Rounds continued to explode sporadically early in the day, but teams were later able to get in and begin clearing the rest of the unexploded ordinance and shrapnel to make the way for more intensive cleanup efforts, Withington said.

I have probably heard of ammunition cooking off a dozen or more time over the years as I watched TV news or read the paper.

[+flask]

 

Changing subject:

I have found a few caches, and I have never, ever found anything dangerous or questionable in a cache. Am I alone? I'm not doubting that it happens, but I'm just curious how as to how serious this problem really is. Is this just a random event during a caching career, or something you run into every day?

 

Edit to correct spelling

 

i've found lots of lighters and lots of knives. lots of leaky or melty stuff. some food. a number of religious tracts, most of which i considered kind of ham-fisted and over the top. apparently i'm going straight to hell. does this mean i have to resign from the board of deacons down at the church?

 

oh, wait. they're probably going to hell too.

 

i've never found political stuff, but if you have a candidate, i'll be happy to lampoon him. or her.

 

oh, wait! i found a howard dean video once. i took it home. i never watched it. i put it in another cache. the cache owner was a crazy dean supporter. i turned up my nose.

 

this is not a political statement. i like dean. i voted for him when he was running for lieutenant governor. i also voted for snelling that year. so did most of vermont. go ahead and look it up if you want. i'm too lazy to provide you with a link, or even check if there is one.

[+TrailGators]

 

Changing subject:

I have found a few caches, and I have never, ever found anything dangerous or questionable in a cache. Am I alone? I'm not doubting that it happens, but I'm just curious how as to how serious this problem really is. Is this just a random event during a caching career, or something you run into every day?

 

Edit to correct spelling

 

i've found lots of lighters and lots of knives. lots of leaky or melty stuff. some food. a number of religious tracts, most of which i considered kind of ham-fisted and over the top. apparently i'm going straight to hell. does this mean i have to resign from the board of deacons down at the church?

 

oh, wait. they're probably going to hell too.

 

i've never found political stuff, but if you have a candidate, i'll be happy to lampoon him. or her.

 

oh, wait! i found a howard dean video once. i took it home. i never watched it. i put it in another cache. the cache owner was a crazy dean supporter. i turned up my nose.

 

this is not a political statement. i like dean. i voted for him when he was running for lieutenant governor. i also voted for snelling that year. so did most of vermont. go ahead and look it up if you want. i'm too lazy to provide you with a link, or even check if there is one.

I thought it was interesting that you seem to have found more bad stuff in caches then most. Those caches also had a lot of liberal propaganda. Is there a connection? Edited July 14, 2007 by TrailGators

[+flask]

once you've found a few caches, you see a wide variety of things.

 

the description of the dean video could less be characterized "liberal propaganda" than "wacky fan footage".

 

i've met howard dean. talked to him. he's a down to earth guy; more conservative than you might suspect. which is why he made a nice lt. governor to dick snelling. i never met governor snelling, but i have been with mrs. snelling and i've met their daughter.

 

i was at a party once talking to a woman about speeding tickets and all of a sudden it occurred to me that she looked very much like mrs. snelling. you know, the lt. governor? i kind of wrinkled up my forehead. i couldn't fathom what she was doing there. what really caught me by surprise was that she knew who i was long before i figured out who she was.

[+FireRef]

I got a kick out of this - caching today, I found a cache that the person before me (both from the written and online log) left a pocket knife. I traded for it - this is a cache that parents take kids to regularly. Funny how I just started reading this topic last night...

[+TrailGators]

the description of the dean video could less be characterized "liberal propaganda" than "wacky fan footage". i've met howard dean. talked to him. he's a down to earth guy; more conservative than you might suspect.

He might be more conservative if you are a socialist. It's all relative dude. It would have been really funny to open a cache and hear the Howard Dean shrieking sound!

[+Miragee]

Someone mentioned that they left a Pocket Knife in one of my caches. I drove the 20 miles to the cache to retrieve it. I love Pocket Knives . . . but I was protecting the children . . .

[+welch]

 

The listing can't solicit. What's inside isn't covered other than food or dangerous items like knifes. Matches or lighters don't belong in caches.

Having the cache page put forth an agenda is certainly not acceptable, but caches can also solict if they have materials in them that are solicitous. I'd be a bit peevish if someone used my cache for their platform.

 

I have no objection to someone dropping off nice swag associated with a cause or an idea, be it a political campaign button, a nice piece of religious regalia or paraphernalia, or a pamphlet about saving the whales, but I don't particularly want anyone loading the box full of any one of those. Geocaching is supposed to be a fun, lighthearted, pastime, not a free sales showroom.

 

I agree with everything Neos2 said.

 

Also, I still think religious material used as an advert is still a solicitation. The problem is of course when does it change from being an item with limited religious connection, to just plain SPAM?

I think even Jeremy has said tracts are tossable,, and that geocaching should have no 'agenda'.

[+TrailGators]

 

The listing can't solicit. What's inside isn't covered other than food or dangerous items like knifes. Matches or lighters don't belong in caches.

Having the cache page put forth an agenda is certainly not acceptable, but caches can also solict if they have materials in them that are solicitous. I'd be a bit peevish if someone used my cache for their platform.

 

I have no objection to someone dropping off nice swag associated with a cause or an idea, be it a political campaign button, a nice piece of religious regalia or paraphernalia, or a pamphlet about saving the whales, but I don't particularly want anyone loading the box full of any one of those. Geocaching is supposed to be a fun, lighthearted, pastime, not a free sales showroom.

 

I agree with everything Neos2 said.

 

Also, I still think religious material used as an advert is still a solicitation. The problem is of course when does it change from being an item with limited religious connection, to just plain SPAM?

I think even Jeremy has said tracts are tossable,, and that geocaching should have no 'agenda'.

Read the rest of that first link...

[Neos2]

Actually it is very, very easy to hurt someone with ammunition and no gun.

I watched as a man died because rescuers could not reach him due to ammunition cooking off in the fire. Although I was behind rocks, the bullets flying overhead made an interesting sound.

No disrespect intended but this seems too much for me to beleive. Would you happen to have an article or any other info on this?

I wondered about this, too. I found these:

cooking off

Q&A on old bullets

Teacher and the 40mm

Choose Are Bullets Dangerous

Something from a military site

The part on souveniers and jewlery is very interesting

Letterboxer mentioned here

Really revolting photo here

Look for "live bullets can be trigger if a fire is lit" in this source from an education website.

lead poisoning danger to gun hobbiests

Edited July 14, 2007 by Neos2

[+Knight2000]

 

The listing can't solicit. What's inside isn't covered other than food or dangerous items like knifes. Matches or lighters don't belong in caches.

Having the cache page put forth an agenda is certainly not acceptable, but caches can also solict if they have materials in them that are solicitous. I'd be a bit peevish if someone used my cache for their platform.

 

I have no objection to someone dropping off nice swag associated with a cause or an idea, be it a political campaign button, a nice piece of religious regalia or paraphernalia, or a pamphlet about saving the whales, but I don't particularly want anyone loading the box full of any one of those. Geocaching is supposed to be a fun, lighthearted, pastime, not a free sales showroom.

 

I agree with everything Neos2 said.

 

Also, I still think religious material used as an advert is still a solicitation. The problem is of course when does it change from being an item with limited religious connection, to just plain SPAM?

I think even Jeremy has said tracts are tossable,, and that geocaching should have no 'agenda'.

Read the rest of that first link...

Im not sure what the rest of the fist link you were referring to. That one that Jeremy wrote was an eye opener. It sounds a bit one sided to me. Only certain religious tracts are ok? Either allow them all or none.

[+Knight2000]

No disrespect intended but this seems too much for me to beleive. Would you happen to have an article or any other info on this?

I also mean no disrespect. It happened in Germany about 35 years ago, and I said that I was there.

 

I did happen to find an article that touches on the subject. It comes from USA Today on 10/11/06 and I am only quoting the first part.

 

Militiamen firing from a nearby neighborhood hit an ammunition dump on a U.S. base in Baghdad with a mortar, setting off fiery explosions that lasted for hours, the U.S. military said Wednesday.

Four mortar rounds fired from the nearby Abu Dashira neighborhood hit Forward Operating Base Falcon around 10:40 p.m. Tuesday, and one of the 82mm rounds hit the ammunition dump, spokesman Lt. Col. Jonathan Withington said. No injuries were reported.

 

"Intelligence indicates that civilians aligned with a militia organization were responsible for last night's mortar attack," Withington said.

 

Rounds continued to explode sporadically early in the day, but teams were later able to get in and begin clearing the rest of the unexploded ordinance and shrapnel to make the way for more intensive cleanup efforts, Withington said.

I have probably heard of ammunition cooking off a dozen or more time over the years as I watched TV news or read the paper.

Yes ammuniton absolutely will explode. That doesnt mean that a bullet goes flying like it would in a gun.

 

I respect your stance and will leave it alone.

 

My point about the ammo is that in general most people (i think) feel that guns/ammo are bad. Those things are just tools. Its the people that use them that cause trouble.

 

I don't leave ammo and wont. So don't get me wrong.

 

Wish i could go caching tomorrow...

[+TrailGators]

 

The listing can't solicit. What's inside isn't covered other than food or dangerous items like knifes. Matches or lighters don't belong in caches.

Having the cache page put forth an agenda is certainly not acceptable, but caches can also solict if they have materials in them that are solicitous. I'd be a bit peevish if someone used my cache for their platform.

 

I have no objection to someone dropping off nice swag associated with a cause or an idea, be it a political campaign button, a nice piece of religious regalia or paraphernalia, or a pamphlet about saving the whales, but I don't particularly want anyone loading the box full of any one of those. Geocaching is supposed to be a fun, lighthearted, pastime, not a free sales showroom.

 

I agree with everything Neos2 said.

 

Also, I still think religious material used as an advert is still a solicitation. The problem is of course when does it change from being an item with limited religious connection, to just plain SPAM?

I think even Jeremy has said tracts are tossable,, and that geocaching should have no 'agenda'.

Read the rest of that first link...

Im not sure what the rest of the fist link you were referring to. That one that Jeremy wrote was an eye opener. It sounds a bit one sided to me. Only certain religious tracts are ok? Either allow them all or none.

I was referring to a religious item that he said was no big deal to leave.

[+LifeOnEdge!]

Depends on the area...if left in a cache in Vegas (say an ammo can), it could get hot enough to explode...a long shot? maybe, but it COULD happen!

 

don't you watch mythbusters?

 

I would have to agree. A butane or zippo-type lighter isn't going to explode. You guys know this. There has to be three things in order for a fire to start and burn. There is limited air inside an ammo can "especially" the hotter it gets, AND there is no source for ignition. Also, you're assuming on thing that is most likely false: that the lighter has fluid in it. If you're giving away a lighter, most likely it is new and in the box. No lighter fluid there!

 

Also, automobiles have flamable liquid in them. They don't explode in Vegas, do they? Mythbusters wouldn't even waste their time on that one.

 

ALL THIS ASIDE, since the guidelines state "no lighters," why push it.

 

My suggestion for your lighter leaving friends: Go with the position of "If a lighter or knife or other prohibited item is left in my cache by you, you are creating the possibility that my cache is disabled or archived. Please don't leave these items as swag in my cache or they will be removed and an appropriate note referring to you left on the cache page.

 

These fools are risking the demise of your cache. Put it to them straight and hard.

[+LifeOnEdge!]

The lighter thing is a myth! I saw an episode of Mythbusters where absolutely could not get a lighter to blow up!

 

I have been very close to a "lighter explosion" and they are quite powerful.

 

While in high school I worked evenings as a janitor at a newspaper and we had to roll the paper around, it came in giant rolls that looked like TP but they weighed a lot (tons). The rolls moved easily but given their mass they had tremendous inertia and things pinched between two rolls or between the roll and the floor could easily be hurt, crushed or broken. On one occcasion I pushed a paper roll over a dropped Bic lighter, the steel part was facing the roll and was the first part compressed, the valve was crushed and as the roll continued forward the plastic lighter body exploded, it was very impressive with bits of plastic flying quite some distance, a small dent was made in the paper roll but only a few layers were hurt.

Even though I haven't seen any giant rolls of paper while out caching I still take lighters from caches.

 

I started removing all the crayons from my caches after a local cache was ruined when a package of crayons melted on a hot day last year, before that happened I used to put crayons in my caches, go figure.

 

It sounds to me like giant rolls of paper are much more dangerous than lighters are. Has anyone considered adding these to the "Do not place these items in a geocache" list?

 

Folks, don't try this at home!

[+New England n00b]

1. Its perceived as an dangerous adult item not suitable for kids or morons, thus its not good for the family friendly image.

2. If you try hard enough you can probably get one to go off without a gun, which would probably be a safety problem (and again not family friendly looking).

I understand how people perceive them.

 

You would have to try very very hard to hurt anyone with one if you didn't have a gun.

 

Putting live ammunition in a fire would do nothing but make a popping noise like a firecracker. Although i doubt it would be that loud.

 

I doubt the hammer and vice but i have no proof either way.

 

I guess used brass would be ok for a sig item.

In at least one US state, even spent brass requires a permit.

[68-eldo]

Actually it is very, very easy to hurt someone with ammunition and no gun.

I watched as a man died because rescuers could not reach him due to ammunition cooking off in the fire. Although I was behind rocks, the bullets flying overhead made an interesting sound.

No disrespect intended but this seems too much for me to beleive. Would you happen to have an article or any other info on this?

I wondered about this, too. I found these:

cooking off

Q&A on old bullets

Teacher and the 40mm

Choose Are Bullets Dangerous

Something from a military site

The part on souveniers and jewlery is very interesting

Letterboxer mentioned here

Really revolting photo here

Look for "live bullets can be trigger if a fire is lit" in this source from an education website.

lead poisoning danger to gun hobbiests

 

Most of this refers to military ammunition. And most of that has two explosive parts. The first is the powder charge that propels the projectile. The second part is the explosive charge that destroys the target. The ammo used by civilians does not have the explosive charge in the projectile. The point being that most of the information in those web sites is not pertinent to this discussion.

 

That’s not to say the civilian ammo is not dangerous, just not as dangerous as the ammo in the websites.

 

When I was in Boy Scouts there was a military training site next to the Boy Scout camp. We would find clips of rifle ammo lying around during our hikes. This is very similar to the civilian ammo. One of the scouts would pull the bullet out of the case and pour the powder on the table, then light it. It would make a nice little flare of smoke and fire. The powder from several rounds would produce a flame no more that 6 inches high. (This scout is now a police officer.) However if left in the case a round will go off if it is placed in a fire intact and it will throw shrapnel around. Ammo must be handled correctly. If you do not have experience with ammunition then you should not be messing around with it.

 

IMHO the smart thing to do is to go to a gun safety course even if you don’t plan to get or own a gun. Take your kids too. It will take the mystique out of guns and the kids will know to leave a gun alone if they find one in a friends home.

 

A gun is only a tool and is only as dangerous as the person holding it.

 

That said ammo should not be in a cache unless you know the people finding the cache will know how to handle it.

[+the hermit crabs]

I guess used brass would be ok for a sig item.

 

In at least one US state, even spent brass requires a permit.

 

Yep... see this old thread: MA CITO Warning - Spent Brass And Shells

[+jkersh]

I once left a religious pamphlet with a nice pin attached. It was for a Christian Bikers Association but the intent wasn't to advertise but to trade for the nice pin.