Attention: If you take or leave a TB....

[+powercatjeffy]

put the name of the TB in your log. It makes it so much easier to track if you have to go back in cache logs to find out where a bug might be if it turns up missing.

 

Thanks,

The Management (or not)

[+Knight2000]

Im not sure about the tracking part you mentioned. I cant think how it would be easier. Just look on the TB page.

 

We do record the TB name when we leave/take a TB. I am weird like that. I only record in the online log and not at the cache itself.

 

Which log do you mean?

 

Any example of what you mean making it harder to track?

[+Eartha]

Both, paper and online. If someone gets to a cache looking for a bug that shows as being in a cache, and it's gone, they can check who took it if it goes missing. If someone forgets to log a bug, the paper log can be checked and they can be reminded. It's a good idea to record the TBs in both places.

[+BlueDeuce]

DO NOT post the tracking number. Use either the Bug name or the reference number.

 

The reference number can be found on the bug page in the upper left corner and reads 'Use TBxxxx to reference this item.'

[+powercatjeffy]

Both, paper and online. If someone gets to a cache looking for a bug that shows as being in a cache, and it's gone, they can check who took it if it goes missing. If someone forgets to log a bug, the paper log can be checked and they can be reminded. It's a good idea to record the TBs in both places.

 

Yeah.... that's what I mean.

 

When I take a TB or leave a TB, I always write it in the physical log with the cache and when I log the cache online. I've seen many cachers just log a "Bug Swap" or "Bug Drop" as they write a note on a cache. By logging the name of the TB(s) they have moved, it just adds the additional layer of trackability if they disappear.

[Aushiker]

G'day

 

Whilst I agree with your sentiments, it is not always possible. For example over the past week I have been traveling and geocaching. I picked up three travel bugs, with no information associated with them. No tags, no objectives, no note etc. Hence I had no idea of their name or objectives, unless there was a previous note in the logbook giving details. On this trip, the latter applied to one only bug.

 

Oh, I didn't have cache details with me either as my PDA crashed on the trip.

 

To me it would help if owners included tags, notes or whatever with thier bugs to make being a more helpful cacher easier.

 

Regards

Andrew

[+cachin4fun]

If you take or leave a TB....What about logging your visit?? There's an interesting situation up in our area... There is a cacher here who will visit caches, sometimes takes TB's/coins, other times just notes their trackable numbers. But, he doesn't log (or post a note about) his visit to the caches, either online or in the logbook (it appears he does log the first time he visits a cache...). Then, when the trackable is moved from the cache, he'll go into the trackable and log a discover. He also then sends the trackable number to another guy 250+ miles away, who also discovers it. The trackable number swap appears to go both ways. So, obviously, their trackable stats are so inflated (which makes me question the integrity of anything they have listed...), but i guess that's their problem. My concern is, over the past year, I've e-mailed the local guy to ask him to please log his visits to my TB hotel...but he still won't do it. It is just in the last few days that i've discovered now he waits to log his "discoveries" until after someone has taken the trackable out of the cache (it makes it harder for someone like me to see that it's happened...).

 

My questions: (1) what do you think of this practice? (2) is there a "rule" that cachers are supposed to log (or at least write a note....) for every visit to a cache? (3) what do you do about TB hoarders (he will travel as far as 60 miles to visit a cache he has been at before, just to get the TB out of it, and then he won't log or post a note about his visit. He also has gone after a TB that was taken out of his cache, placed 25 miles away, got and put it back in his cache within a few days)?

[Skylerdragon]

put the name of the TB in your log. It makes it so much easier to track if you have to go back in cache logs to find out where a bug might be if it turns up missing.

 

Thanks,

The Management (or not)

 

Someone just posted the tracking code in a journal for a cache I was just watching. I thought tracking numbers weren't supposed to be posted in journal entries. I made a note on the travel bug and the geocoin this person did that to. I also see that the cacher has "dropped off" both the geocoin and the travel bug in another cache...but the old log where he found it is still posted...so anyone perusing the logs (like me) can take that tracking number, log it and release it in a cache without ever having found the travel bug.

 

Then the travel bug would be lost! Or at least not in the place it says it should be!

 

How do we deal with this problem?

[Skylerdragon]

If you take or leave a TB....What about logging your visit?? There's an interesting situation up in our area... There is a cacher here who will visit caches, sometimes takes TB's/coins, other times just notes their trackable numbers. But, he doesn't log (or post a note about) his visit to the caches, either online or in the logbook (it appears he does log the first time he visits a cache...). Then, when the trackable is moved from the cache, he'll go into the trackable and log a discover. He also then sends the trackable number to another guy 250+ miles away, who also discovers it. The trackable number swap appears to go both ways. So, obviously, their trackable stats are so inflated (which makes me question the integrity of anything they have listed...), but i guess that's their problem. My concern is, over the past year, I've e-mailed the local guy to ask him to please log his visits to my TB hotel...but he still won't do it. It is just in the last few days that i've discovered now he waits to log his "discoveries" until after someone has taken the trackable out of the cache (it makes it harder for someone like me to see that it's happened...).

 

My questions: (1) what do you think of this practice? (2) is there a "rule" that cachers are supposed to log (or at least write a note....) for every visit to a cache? (3) what do you do about TB hoarders (he will travel as far as 60 miles to visit a cache he has been at before, just to get the TB out of it, and then he won't log or post a note about his visit. He also has gone after a TB that was taken out of his cache, placed 25 miles away, got and put it back in his cache within a few days)?

 

Well I have seen people revisit caches, but its not a "find the second time is it? In subsequent visits, I think cachers are just supposed to write a note. I may be wrong though. I have only been caching a short time. As far as the sharing TB Tracking Codes, I agree with you...its frowned upon. I personally don't mind it if they just come to the cache and discover the TB. I did that a few times. But I post my log right away. If he really is hoarding TBs then shame on him. If he likes chasing them down though and rereleasing them, there really isn't much any of us can do about that.

 

This is all m personaly POV since I am a beginner.

[Skylerdragon]

G'day

 

Whilst I agree with your sentiments, it is not always possible. For example over the past week I have been traveling and geocaching. I picked up three travel bugs, with no information associated with them. No tags, no objectives, no note etc. Hence I had no idea of their name or objectives, unless there was a previous note in the logbook giving details. On this trip, the latter applied to one only bug.

 

Oh, I didn't have cache details with me either as my PDA crashed on the trip.

 

To me it would help if owners included tags, notes or whatever with thier bugs to make being a more helpful cacher easier.

 

Regards

Andrew

 

Oh good point! Many of the TBs I have foud have had the note or pasport or profile attached. But some havent. If you aren't going to include it then what happens happens. Suppose you do include it and it gets separated from the bug because of negligence or whatever. I guess we have to rely on the good will and ethical practices of other cachers to restore the materials.

 

I just released Its a Small World TB, which really has som3e heavy mileage, but doesnt have any papers with it. I printed out the TB passport, and enclosed both the passport and TB in a zip-loc baggie before I released them. I hope it helps.

[Skylerdragon]

DO NOT post the tracking number. Use either the Bug name or the reference number.

 

The reference number can be found on the bug page in the upper left corner and reads 'Use TBxxxx to reference this item.'

 

Someone just posted the tracking code in a journal for a cache I was just watching. I thought tracking numbers weren't supposed to be posted in journal entries. I made a note on the travel bug and the geocoin this person did that to. I also see that the cacher has "dropped off" both the geocoin and the travel bug in another cache...but the old log where he found it is still posted...so anyone perusing the logs (like me) can take that tracking number, log it and release it in a cache without ever having found the travel bug.

 

Then the travel bug would be lost! Or at least not in the place it says it should be!

 

How do we deal with this problem?

[+Knight2000]

Both, paper and online. If someone gets to a cache looking for a bug that shows as being in a cache, and it's gone, they can check who took it if it goes missing. If someone forgets to log a bug, the paper log can be checked and they can be reminded. It's a good idea to record the TBs in both places.

 

Yeah.... that's what I mean.

 

When I take a TB or leave a TB, I always write it in the physical log with the cache and when I log the cache online. I've seen many cachers just log a "Bug Swap" or "Bug Drop" as they write a note on a cache. By logging the name of the TB(s) they have moved, it just adds the additional layer of trackability if they disappear.

Too much work. We log them online and in a timely manner.

[+BlueDeuce]

DO NOT post the tracking number. Use either the Bug name or the reference number.

 

The reference number can be found on the bug page in the upper left corner and reads 'Use TBxxxx to reference this item.'

 

Someone just posted the tracking code in a journal for a cache I was just watching. I thought tracking numbers weren't supposed to be posted in journal entries. I made a note on the travel bug and the geocoin this person did that to. I also see that the cacher has "dropped off" both the geocoin and the travel bug in another cache...but the old log where he found it is still posted...so anyone perusing the logs (like me) can take that tracking number, log it and release it in a cache without ever having found the travel bug.

 

Then the travel bug would be lost! Or at least not in the place it says it should be!

 

How do we deal with this problem?

 

You send them a really friendly note explaining why posting the tracking number could result in bad guys logging the bug out of a cache and dropping it in listing half way around the world. Yes, this really does happen. Then explain that the reference number listed on the bug page is available to be used in logs as it can't be used to retrieve the bug.

[+BlueDeuce]

If you take or leave a TB....What about logging your visit?? There's an interesting situation up in our area... There is a cacher here who will visit caches, sometimes takes TB's/coins, other times just notes their trackable numbers. But, he doesn't log (or post a note about) his visit to the caches, either online or in the logbook (it appears he does log the first time he visits a cache...). Then, when the trackable is moved from the cache, he'll go into the trackable and log a discover. He also then sends the trackable number to another guy 250+ miles away, who also discovers it. The trackable number swap appears to go both ways. So, obviously, their trackable stats are so inflated (which makes me question the integrity of anything they have listed...), but i guess that's their problem. My concern is, over the past year, I've e-mailed the local guy to ask him to please log his visits to my TB hotel...but he still won't do it. It is just in the last few days that i've discovered now he waits to log his "discoveries" until after someone has taken the trackable out of the cache (it makes it harder for someone like me to see that it's happened...).

 

My questions: (1) what do you think of this practice? (2) is there a "rule" that cachers are supposed to log (or at least write a note....) for every visit to a cache? (3) what do you do about TB hoarders (he will travel as far as 60 miles to visit a cache he has been at before, just to get the TB out of it, and then he won't log or post a note about his visit. He also has gone after a TB that was taken out of his cache, placed 25 miles away, got and put it back in his cache within a few days)?

 

There is no requirement that someone log a cache when the retrieve a bug, it's only a courtesy. Revisiting a cache is perfectly acceptable and while it may seem like hoarding travel bugs are first come, first serve.

 

Virtual logging of a TB however and sharing the tracking number is against current guidelines.

[+cachin4fun]

In response to: Well I have seen people revisit caches, but its not a "find the second time is it? In subsequent visits, I think cachers are just supposed to write a note. I may be wrong though. I have only been caching a short time. As far as the sharing TB Tracking Codes, I agree with you...its frowned upon. I personally don't mind it if they just come to the cache and discover the TB. I did that a few times. But I post my log right away. If he really is hoarding TBs then shame on him. If he likes chasing them down though and rereleasing them, there really isn't much any of us can do about that.

 

This is all m personaly POV since I am a beginner.

 

I agree that a note, versus a "found it" log is more appropriate for 2nd and more visits. I also don't mind if they discover the tbs/coins...it's fun to see cool ones, even if you don't have a chance to move 'em along soon! But, my concern is not logging a visit (even if it's a note...), as well as sharing the tracking numbers with another cacher (and vise versa...) to inflate stats. And of course, i don't mind if they retrieve and move them...that's the game. It just gets annoying to have TB's show up electronically in caches, and then they're taken, but with no mention of a visit to the cache. (and again, in some cases, a retrieval of a TB that was taken out of a cache by someone, moved 20-60 miles, and then this guy retrieves it and puts it back in his cache...although i think he's calmed down on this practice some...)

[+cachin4fun]

 

There is no requirement that someone log a cache when the retrieve a bug, it's only a courtesy. Revisiting a cache is perfectly acceptable and while it may seem like hoarding travel bugs are first come, first serve.

 

Virtual logging of a TB however and sharing the tracking number is against current guidelines.

 

So if something is against current guidelines, what is the next step, if any? (Btw, the guy he shares with is from Iowa, so maybe you, BlueDeuce, have come across him or know him??) What can a cacher believe about either of these two guys now, knowing that they engage in inflation actions??

 

Anyway, again, my biggest concern is that no notes are submitted when caches are visited for TB's, and i think that is a guideline, too, isn't it? I would appreciate knowing when my cache is visited, for whatever reason (to get TB numbers, or to retrieve TB's, or whatever...)

 

Thoughts??

[+BlueDeuce]

There is no requirement that someone log a cache when the retrieve a bug, it's only a courtesy.

 

Anyone with a concern regarding the practice of another cacher should contact a forum moderator, a cache reviewer, or gc.com, directly and off-line.

 

These people will first confirm if your concern is in fact an issue that needs to be addressed.

[+wavector]

I agree that a note, versus a "found it" log is more appropriate for 2nd and more visits. I also don't mind if they discover the tbs/coins...it's fun to see cool ones, even if you don't have a chance to move 'em along soon! But, my concern is not logging a visit (even if it's a note...), as well as sharing the tracking numbers with another cacher (and vise versa...) to inflate stats. And of course, i don't mind if they retrieve and move them...that's the game. It just gets annoying to have TB's show up electronically in caches, and then they're taken, but with no mention of a visit to the cache. (and again, in some cases, a retrieval of a TB that was taken out of a cache by someone, moved 20-60 miles, and then this guy retrieves it and puts it back in his cache...although i think he's calmed down on this practice some...)

 

This site is structured so that geocachers can take and move TB's without ever leaving the TB web page. Every trackable item is a gamepiece in and of itself. The owner selects the mission, the fees paid for the bug let the TB owner create a TB webpage that can be used to track their TB. Anyone finding the TB anywhere need only have the number on the tag to track it, move it , discover it or log notes to the page.

 

It appears that you have trouble recognizing that each and every TB is a gamepiece in it's own right and you have no place in determining whether or not the trackable is being handled properly, that is the purview of the TB owner or this listing service.

Why should you get a Note or any type of information if Cacher B moves Cacher C's Travel Bug?

What possible place do you have in that transaction?

 

There are many geocachers who act in tandem or act as a team. We have one team that has eight or nine members and the team members log every cache they find anywhere with their own geocaching nick and then the Team geocaching nick. It seems to me that the two geocachers you see exchanging TB tracking codes are doing something similar, they are not doing anything wrong, they are acting in tandem. If they are not publishing or distributing the tracking code they are not abrogating any guideline. They are each claiming every TB that either of them finds, this is not prohibited. If the TB owner objects they can delete these logs. The TB owners have complete control of the item they own, each TB is a gamepiece, just like a cache. I am not sure how far you would go with another persons cache? Would you tell other people how to log it? Would you try and place restrictions on caches that you didn't own?

 

In my opinion you should remove this sentence from your cache page "if at all possible, please exchange TB's. If you don't have one to leave, but would really like to move one along, that is okay" because if geocachers want to move TB's along they certainly don't need your permission to do so. Even a polite request is wrong and indicates to me that you don't grasp the sovereign nature of every TB. You have no right imposing any restrictions on TB's, you don't own them, they are not placed to help you make a lively hotel and the purpose of every cache is to help TB's move along, not to act as a repository for TB trading.

Edited July 15, 2007 by wavector

[+BlueDeuce]

It seems to me that the two geocachers you see exchanging TB tracking codes are doing something similar, they are not doing anything wrong, they are acting in tandem. If they are not publishing or distributing the tracking code they are not abrogating any guideline. They are each claiming every TB that either of them finds, this is not prohibited.

 

Two cachers finding the same bug, ones logs it and the other Discovers it is one thing.

 

Giving a code to a cacher who was never present is against guidelines.

 

 

edited for clarification.

Edited July 16, 2007 by BlueDeuce

[+cachin4fun]

 

(snip) Why should you get a Note or any type of information if Cacher B moves Cacher C's Travel Bug?

What possible place do you have in that transaction? (snip)

 

(snip) There are many geocachers who act in tandem or act as a team. We have one team that has eight or nine members and the team members log every cache they find anywhere with their own geocaching nick and then the Team geocaching nick. (snip)

 

(snip) In my opinion you should remove this sentence from your cache page "if at all possible, please exchange TB's. If you don't have one to leave, but would really like to move one along, that is okay" because if geocachers want to move TB's along they certainly don't need your permission to do so. Even a polite request is wrong and indicates to me that you don't grasp the sovereign nature of every TB (snip).

 

Thanks for your comments, wave...interesting things to think about, but i'm not quite sure you got what i was talking about. I believe a note would be courtesy, if not a requirement by gc.com, when a cacher visits a cache i placed (or any other cache, for that matter...and a note, versus a "found it" log, being more appropriate for the visit if it's a 2nd or greater visit, for the purpose of obtaining tracking numbers, retrieving a trackable, or whatever purpose). This allows for a record of who's been to the cache when...which can be useful if the cache is missing or something else happens to it (both of which have occurred with this cache....and backlogs were useful in helping those situations). But, as i'm understanding it since i first posted my questions, it is probably not a requirement to log the visit. So maybe emphasizing a courtesy is the way to go...

 

I think it's great when folks act as teams....and it's usually very clear when they do so because they say so. For example, I find something, I log it personally, and then log it for the team because i'm a team member....great! I can see this happening, although i don't cache as a team member. But, should i then give the number to the other 5 team members, even though they are stuck at home while i'm caching on vacation in the Rockies? I wouldn't....and i think most team members wouldn't either, because they never saw or touched the trackable...

 

Regarding your suggestion about revising my cache description, that's also interesting...certainly a different perspective. I've not had any problems with cachers asking permission to move something, and this cache has been pretty popular (also, you missed the last sentence about wanting these tbs to be moving out of aberdeen...). Given that the moderator approved it with the description as written, I think i'll keep it as is for now. But, i'll keep your comments in mind!

 

Thanks again! And keep on cachin!

[+Eartha]

If tracking numbers are posted in public places, such as the forums or in online logs and the poster won't edit it out, let me know. I can do it. But please, send a link. Don't make me search for it.

[+team moxiepup]

G'day

 

Whilst I agree with your sentiments, it is not always possible. For example over the past week I have been traveling and geocaching. I picked up three travel bugs, with no information associated with them. No tags, no objectives, no note etc. Hence I had no idea of their name or objectives, unless there was a previous note in the logbook giving details. On this trip, the latter applied to one only bug.

 

Oh, I didn't have cache details with me either as my PDA crashed on the trip.

 

To me it would help if owners included tags, notes or whatever with thier bugs to make being a more helpful cacher easier.

 

Regards

Andrew

 

Oh good point! Many of the TBs I have foud have had the note or pasport or profile attached. But some havent. If you aren't going to include it then what happens happens. Suppose you do include it and it gets separated from the bug because of negligence or whatever. I guess we have to rely on the good will and ethical practices of other cachers to restore the materials.

 

I just released Its a Small World TB, which really has som3e heavy mileage, but doesnt have any papers with it. I printed out the TB passport, and enclosed both the passport and TB in a zip-loc baggie before I released them. I hope it helps.

 

I agree that having some sort of mission or ID tag on a TB is the best way to go. It eliminates a lot of confusion. If a bug doesn't have any ID with it, we usually try to just describe the bug on the paper log. "the rubber duck" TB, the "plastic fish TB", the "stuffed penguin" TB, etc. The proper names, of course, are discovered when we log them online, but anyone trying to track a missing TB by reading the paper logs will have an idea of which ones we have or haven't moved by the description.

 

It really irks me when people move TBs without logging them online. If you prefer to cache without logging online... that's fine... whatever floats your boat. TBs however, are meant to be tracked online. If you don't plan on doing so, you shouldn't be messing around with them. Leave them for someone who will take that responsibility.

[+wavector]

Two cachers finding the same bug, ones logs it and the other Discovers it is one thing.

Giving a code to a cacher who was never present is against guidelines.

 

 

OK, I am stymied?

 

There are two cachers involved, the tracking number is not being published or distributed.

Deciding if one of them has never actually seen the bug is going to be very difficult?

 

A cacher does not have to go to a cache, they just have to see the TB, actually they don't even need to see the TB, they only need the number. If I found a TB, recorded the code and dropped off the TB in a cache then when I got back home my wife could Discover it if she was so inclined and she could do this by looking at my notebook and getting the number from there, you are saying that this situation is covered in the guidelines, it states a person has to be present at some point?

 

I suppose someone could make a judgement call but I certainly wouldn't want to try and make it.

 

Since it is clearly a case of two cachers acting together to log every bug either of them finds as opposed to a cacher distributing or publishing a TB Tracking code I wonder if you could point out the guideline? I am not trying to be argumentative BD, I just really want to know how this situation could be decided from afar and what guideline they are breaking.

[+BlueDeuce]

I just really want to know how this situation could be decided from afar and what guideline they are breaking.

 

Are you asking me how someone can be caught breaking the rules in this situation or are you suggesting that emailing your buddy in another state a tracking code is within guidelines?

[+wavector]

I believe a note would be courtesy. But, as i'm understanding it since i first posted my questions, it is probably not a requirement to log the visit. So maybe emphasizing a courtesy is the way to go...

 

....most team members wouldn't either, because they never saw or touched the trackable...

 

Regarding your suggestion about revising my cache description, that's also interesting...certainly a different perspective. I've not had any problems with cachers asking permission to move something, and this cache has been pretty popular (also, you missed the last sentence about wanting these tbs to be moving out of aberdeen...). Given that the moderator approved it with the description as written, I think i'll keep it as is for now. But, i'll keep your comments in mind!

 

Thanks again! And keep on cachin!

 

Trackable items are gamepieces in their own right. They have their own webpage and logging an item on it's webpage should always be part of the adventure, so we concur that they should be logged as a courtesy. I think we diverge when deciding to whom the courtesy should be extended and the role a cache owner plays in the handling of trackable items owned by other geocachers. Cache owners who recognize that the cache is theirs should also recognize that the TB isn't theirs, it belongs to another geocacher. Emphasizing courtesy is always a strong point, apply that sentiment to a cache owner who suggests that seekers should handle trackable items in some fashion other than that intended by the actual owner? If a cache owner says something along the lines of "trade trackable items" or some variant thereof, that cache owner is encroaching upon another players gamepiece and they are encroaching upon another geocacher's privileges, this is not courteous.

New geocachers who visit a cache that instructs them to handle trackable items in some fashion other than that intended by the owner may have no idea that the cache owner is actually encroaching on the rights of another geocacher, namely the TB owner. New cachers may fail to recognize that all TB's should be handled as the TB owner intends and that other than the listing service no one else has any place in deciding how a TB should be handled. An unfortunate consequence of cache owners telling seekers how to handle other peoples trackable items is that many cachers place a cache that has similar wording that encourages others to do the same thing, namely handle a trackable item in a fashion not intended by the owner.

 

It is fairly easy to be courteous to other geocachers by ensuring that their trackable items are handled in the fashion that they intended. This can be accomplished quite easily by ensuruing that their rights are respected, do not tell other seekers how to handle items that you don't own and you have a win-win situation. A lot depends on common courtesy rather than reviewer intervention, reviewers will publish TB Prisons as well as TB Hotels, they don't care and there is no guideline covering discourtesy.

 

I have a TB hotel and here is the line I use: Take them all , don't worry there will be more dropped off and more taken, there is no restriction here, I encourage you to take every bug in here, this cache is placed to help Travel Bugs. You are doing the bugs a good turn and you are doing the right thing when you take them and move them, Travel Bugs (yes every bug) want to travel, help them out.

[+wavector]

I just really want to know how this situation could be decided from afar and what guideline they are breaking.

 

Are you asking me how someone can be caught breaking the rules in this situation or are you suggesting that emailing your buddy in another state a tracking code is within guidelines?

 

I am asking specifically which guideline they are breaking?

 

Giving another geocacher a tracking code is not a distribution nor is it publishing. If the TB owner objects to a log they have the power to delete. I understand the prohibition against the virtual logging of TBs and I deleted a TB log just a few weeks ago made by a geocacher from another country on one of my TB's currently in the US. I read everything carefully before deleting the log because the out of country cacher may have been on a holiday or the holders of the TB may have visited him in his country, I could't tell by looking at the log itself and eventually just decided it was likely bogus.

What I am driving at is that I am not sure that TB owners can distinguish if a second log is legitimate from afar, they have to read the log and make a decision. How is this listing service going to distinguish scenarios where one geocacher gives another geocacher a TB code without letting them see the TB?

If it is limited to a pair of cachers calling it a distribution or publishing is a stretch and it would not be fair to lock down the TB's as virtuals. Since they live just 4 hours apart how would you go about deciding they were abusing a guideline, more specifcally which guideline are they abusing?

 

I agree that they should not transfer tracking codes but that agreement means nothing in light of the fact that they can say whatever they want and who is going to prove it is an abuse?

[+BlueDeuce]

Proving it is one thing all to itself. Yes it usually has to be done in view of the public to have substantial evidence, but what is enough proof is decided by gc.com

 

I don't see a need to explain that sharing codes with friends and loved ones so they can log a bug they never saw falls within the boundaries of virtual logging. If it isn't clear, I'll wait for Eartha to weigh in.

 

The guideline has been explained by Jeremy and Eartha (among others). I can point to posted instructions but it's been my experience that gc.com doesn't feel a need to post every guideline to be able to enforce them.

 

I'm just telling folks what can result from doing such things as sharing tracking codes.

[+wavector]

I'm just telling folks what can result from doing such things as sharing tracking codes.

 

I missed that part.

 

The owners of the TBs risk having their TB locked if TPTB consider it a virtual TB.

 

Given the specifics in this thread what action would be taken against who for doing what?

Would both geocachers be BANNED and all the TB's logged by those two geocachers be locked? Would all of the logs made by cacher B be deleted?

 

It is my understanding that geocachers who post logs on TB's that they have never seen are not subject to any disciplinary action. I have never seen any armchair loggers disciplined and I thought that was because banning them for their claims would lend credence to the idea that the numbers claimed by a geocacher are regulated by this listing service or it would support the idea that those numbers actually mean something. That type of regulation depends upon active owners willing to delete logs on their caches or trackable items.

 

I am interested because even though I agree that what they are doing should not be done I don't see how it could run afoul of any enforceable guideline. We would need RFID devices inside the TB tags that reported real time movement, then we would know they didn't meet for coffee and actually share the TBs.

[+EPMinnesota]

Is it confirmed that these 2 cachers don't travel a lot and cache together? We have a father-daughter caching team that live out of state from each other (one is from Iowa as a matter of fact) but travel back and forth often. They cache in both states so both log their tb find/discovers and caches.

Also, living in a state which is an airline hub we have flight crew members that cache around the world and in other states. They'll often pick up and drop bugs/coins here and there as they travel and visit some of the same caches such as airport tb hotels often to exchange bugs.

Unless you know the people involved or what their situation is and if they are indeed bending rules, I guess there's really nothing that needs to be done. I personally log each find and placement at the cache site and on each trackables page but don't necessarily mention on the online cache log which bugs/coins I'm dropping. Usually it's because I'm dropping them into my own tb hotel or coin bank and they get logged into the cache and the trackables page at the same time.

I do keep a notebook with me to keep track of what I have in my inventory especially when I'm traveling. I have picked up several bugs/coins recently that want to travel to areas where we are going on vacation soon. I have them listed in my notebook so that I place them where they want to go and don't forget them.

I don't like to discover tb's. For some reason it just seems wrong but I do discover coins because sometimes they're in someone elses hands but it was great to come in contact with them.

[+cachin4fun]

Is it confirmed that these 2 cachers don't travel a lot and cache together?

 

I personally log each find and placement at the cache site and on each trackables page but don't necessarily mention on the online cache log which bugs/coins I'm dropping.

 

I don't like to discover tb's. For some reason it just seems wrong but I do discover coins because sometimes they're in someone elses hands but it was great to come in contact with them.

 

They are together sometimes, but it's pretty easy to see from their logs that they send trackable numbers to each other. But, i had my little rant , and now i'm ready to focus on me and my caching again!! What they do is their problem, and i don't think they are fooling anyone.

 

I like the courtesy of logging each visit, at least electronically (although i always sign the log on the first find...). The large majority of my multiple visits are to the TB hotel i have, or to other caches near by *if* i'm going out of town and a bug has been around awhile and i can help it towards it's goal. But i always post a note.

 

Yeah, i don't get the "discover" thing on TB's, either. I think i've discovered a coin once or twice... but, maybe not!! I'll have to look at my logs!

 

So anyway, I'll embrace a motto my dad shared with me: "illegitimi non carborundum," and keep on cachin!