FTF Ettiquite

[roy&roz]

I'm sure this has been asked before. I'm new and to lazy to search archives. While out searching you come upon other geocachers looking for the same cache. Is it a pirates world. Do you have an obligation to let them go first? If it's a FTF and they were already on site, what do you do? Is it ethical to "stand down" or is it first to find first to sign?

[+StarBrand]

Ask them how they would like to proceed. Be polite. That is how I would handle it.

 

In many areas - it is sort of expected that all those in the FTF "race" will act independently and run for the prize.

[+DeRock & The Psychic Cacher]

Ask them how they would like to proceed. Be polite. That is how I would handle it.

 

IMHO this is the best advice you will get.

 

Each cacher you run into on the FTF trail will have a slightly different take on what they would like to have happen and/or what they will agree to if asked. And even the same cacher may want to handle it differently, depending on who the other party is.

 

Being polite and asking is taking the high road.

 

Being generous (in all respects) has made us more friends than anything else we do in geocaching and there is almost always a positive return.

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

[+briansnat]

I would join in the hunt and if he finds it first, I would congratulate him on the FTF. If I found it first I would celebrate our joint FTF.

[+Team FIREBOY]

Not too much of an FTF hound here, but if I was trying for FTF and someone else showed up to look, I would ask if they would like to search together and be co-FTF's. If they were the person searching first and I showed up, I would wait and then be STF. It's a game after all. No skin off my knee if I am not first. ;o)

[+Team_CSG]

You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Keep it friendly.

Edited July 11, 2007 by arthurat

[+"we two want to play too"]

Ask them how they would like to proceed. Be polite. That is how I would handle it.

 

IMHO this is the best advice you will get.

 

Each cacher you run into on the FTF trail will have a slightly different take on what they would like to have happen and/or what they will agree to if asked. And even the same cacher may want to handle it differently, depending on who the other party is.

 

Being polite and asking is taking the high road.

 

Being generous (in all respects) has made us more friends than anything else we do in geocaching and there is almost always a positive return.

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

 

I would second that!!

We have a shared FTF with DeRock. We were at the site first, by quite some time. In fact, we had called it and were heading out. Started yapping, he found the cache, and then quite kindly offered to share FTF. He even put it in his log. We consider it a STF, personally, since we were on our way out.

We have several shared FTF's. Always by agreement and, always in advance of locating the cache.

 

DeRock put out a 'FTF club' cache last winter. In order to log his cache, you had to get a FTF AFTER his was published. By coincidence, another local cacher had a series of caches published that morning. I think a group of 5 or so was there at one particular cache when it was found. No one had discussed sharing. Once the cache was found, several people made comments that made it very clear that they intended to claim the find as shared.

 

You should have seen the original finders face. He was new to the game at that point so he didn't speak up. It was his first FTF and I know he really didn't want to share... which absolutely is his right.

 

We almost always offer to share the FTF. It's just polite (and lucky too, it seems). But if they were there first, and didn't offer, we would look anyway and just try to be stealthy about it, as if we were group caching.

[+TheManInStripes]

The race seems to be for First to FIND, not First to Arrive at the location. If I arrived and found someone else looking, I would just join in the search and whoever FINDs it first can be the first to sign and claim the FTF.

 

I actually had one a few weeks ago where I arrived on site and had someone else pull up and join in about 30 seconds later. Naturally, we both just casually introduced ourselves and went about looking for the cache. HE happened to find it first, and rather then pull it right out, he just sort of stood nearby and waited for me to spot it in the camo. Once I saw where and how it was hidden, he pulled it from the spot and claimed the FTF, and rightly so.

[+SparksWG3K]

I would join in the hunt and if he finds it first, I would congratulate him on the FTF. If I found it first I would celebrate our joint FTF.

 

Yeah, that is about how it works around here, too. Of course we think it is weird when people wait for us to find it. If we are around and scratching our heads... come and join us!

[+TrailGators]

I think around here people team up for the FTF unless of course it has already been found.

[+Team LaLonde]

We just invite others to join the hunt if we are already there. If we find it we walk away about 50 feet. When we are well clear of the container we let the other folks know we found it and ask if 1) they would like to find it themselves or 2) should we just retrieve it so everyone can sign the book.

[+Renegade Knight]

The few times I've happened on cachers or vice versa, we have just waited at a respectful distance until they were done.

[+Blue Power Ranger]

My favorite thing about FTF attempts is that that is when I am most likely to get to visit and search with other cachers. Shared FTFs are just fine for most people. If you keep a list, give credit to the co-.

[+PJPeters]

We were actually discussing our FTF "get-togethers" last night at our CITO event.

There's a lot of FTF Hounds here in West Michigan. Don't know how many times I've run into people in the most unlikely places - middle of the night, in a park, some nutty stuff. We're also pretty cut-throat, until we're filling in the log. Many of the FTFs around here end up being joint FTFs. The only issue is who gets the FTF prize, if available.

If I meet someone at the cache, usually that means I'm too late. If not, we'll all "beat the bushes" looking for it, as a team, more or less. I usually don't care about the FTF prize, so I'll let the other guy have it. We tend to have quite a lot of fun on these adventures.

Obviously, if someone else finds it before I do, and he/she's not in a sharing mood, I'll let 'em have it. Not all that big of a deal for me.

Edited July 12, 2007 by PJPeters

[+Googling Hrpty Hrrs]

I would join in the hunt and if he finds it first, I would congratulate him on the FTF. If I found it first I would celebrate our joint FTF.

 

I second that. Most importantly, make it seem better that you've found another cacher than another cache.

[+genegene]

Its very interesting reading these logs. I have only received 2 F.T.F. and both in the last month. The first one was in the middle of the night and the second one came after the first day of being listed and every one posted a did not find. That night I added a note saying that I would be in the area between 1 and 1:30 and if any one wanted to meet up on a joint hunt to show up, when I arrived I met up with Rocking the Goat and we started to look around. after almost 2 hours Rocking the goat decided to give up and go have a beer, and I decided to keep looking for another 1/2 to 1 hr longer before giving up. Just as the goat had gotten to the road I found it and yelled down for the Goat to return. I decided not to touch the cache and ruin the hunt, so I just sat back and let her look around in the area. Even though She was to retrieve the cache first, she gave me the credit and the F.T.F. prize. But honestly the prize for me was that I got to meet 1/2 of the goat team, and isn't that the best prize any one can can get? If I am ever on a hunt like this one, and another cacher showed up, who ever finds it, should leave it in its place and not ruin the hunt for the other. If it is shown to the other cacher with out them looking for it, shouldn't the log read (2nd to log) and not (2nd to find)?

[+onfire4jesus]

Hmmm.... Wish this topic had come up a month ago or so. I was traveling from my son's place in Georgia down to Florida to watch the Space Shuttle Atlantis launch. I of course cached my way down and back. There was a new cache (a few days old) listed at the Florida welcome center on I-95 that no one had logged. When I arrived at the rest area and parked near the cache there was a woman and a older boy just exiting the woods. Just as I was kicking myself for not driving faster or perhaps skipping a cache or two in Georgia, they looked at their GPSr and went back into the woods. I sat there for 10 seconds debating. Wait or intrude? The lure of the FTF (I had never been FTF before) got the better of me and I grabbed my geocaching bag and followed them into the woods. I introduced myself and everybody was cordial. They had been there for some time and had exited the woods in hopes they could get a better fix with their GPSr since it was bouncing in the woods. Their GPSr had ground zero about 30' from where mine did, so they searched near theirs and I searched near mine. Mine was more accurate (although still 30' from the cache, making it 60' for them) and I found the cache first. I logged the FTF and they congratulated me. Unfortunately, I had never heard of co-FTF, or I would have gladly offered. If they had hard feelings about my "pirating" their FTF, they never let on. If the situation had been reversed I would have been disappointed, but would not have begrudged them their FTF. I usually cache alone, but always welcome company whether it is family, friends or strangers.

 

In the future if the situation arises, I might open a discussion, but I guess I feel just because someone arrived on the scene first, shouldn't mean they get to monopolize it. Again, if I arrived at a scene first and someone else showed up, I would be glad for the company and would ask if they wanted to work together or separately, but I wouldn't expect them to wait for me to finish.

[+flask]

Ask them how they would like to proceed. Be polite. That is how I would handle it.

 

In many areas - it is sort of expected that all those in the FTF "race" will act independently and run for the prize.

 

yep.

 

around here we're more likely to celebrate our joint FTF by scrapping an hour and a half's caching by going out together for whatever meal seems appropriate. there's a guy or two who will dive into mud ahead of a six year old to get there first, but mostly we're additive. it takes a lot of trouble out of it.

 

our convention about cache loot is that the first one to spot the box gets first pick.

[AZcachemeister]

I can recall one occasion where I was on-site for at least a half-hour before another cacher showed up for the FTF hunt. I knew him, and whether I did or not, I would never have asked anyone to back-off (especially considering I had spent a fruitless half-hour already!). He found it first using superior intuition.

 

On another occasion, I arrived second. I and the cacher already on the scene (a different fellow than in the first example) were familiar with each other this time as well. He said he was about to give up and leave, but we looked again together. This time my intuition was better, and I found the cache he had somehow managed to overlook.

 

In both cases, whomever found it first claimed the FTF. In my book, a co-FTF would only apply if the teams had been caching together before the attempt.

 

As has been already said, it's FIRST TO FIND, not FIRST TO ARRIVE.

 

I can't recall any situations where I joined or was joined in a hunt where I got the feeling that I was unwelcome, and I certainly hope I did not convey any such feelings to anyone else!

 

EDITED: for speeling!

Edited July 15, 2007 by AZcachemeister

[+trailsailor]

My only FTF "encounter" happened on a 6 part mystery cache. While I was the first to find the final stage, I was only able to do so because I had run into two fellow cachers at two of the stages leading up to the final. On both occasions, they found that leg first and with no game playing simply handed me the log to sign in. I would have never made it to final much less be the first without their help. After arriving at the parking area for the final, they discovered that they made an error figuring out the final coords and had to go back to a park sign to re-do. I was unaware of this at the time, all they had to do was ask me what I got for the final coords and I would have gladly compared notes. But they went back to re-figure while I found the final. I left it in place so that they could find it and claim FTF but they would have none of it, they simply stated that first to find is first to find. I learned a lot about caching etiquette that day from two first rate pros. Since that time we have enjoyed "beta-testing'" many of each other's caches and having fun going after others' caches for the FTF. Great fun.

[+Sioneva]

Seems like one thing is being overlooked - half the time, you don't know if you're the FTF or not until you find the cache and open that nice new logbook and find it blank! When I go caching with a group and spot the cache first, and it's a FTF, I get to sign the log first, but we all share the FTF. When I am caching alone and someone else strolls up... I guess I never really thought about it before, but whoever finds it first is FTF, regardless of who was there first. Ran into that situation recently for a STF, but the other cachers were a couple I knew and had already been looking for a while - they were just relieved that the cache was found and they could go, I think!

[+yodadog and corvus 2]

One of my Geocaching pet peeves is when I find myself in a group hunt and the cacher who finds it first (especially a cleverly hidden micro) pulls the cache out of its hidey hole, holds it in his hand for all to see and yells “I found it!” So what are the rest of us supposed to do now? It’s not really a find for the others and it isn’t a DNF either. I know of at least a half a dozen caches I’ve been to where this has happened and have not signed the log because I really didn’t find it.

 

I now have no problem asking the others, “If you spot it don’t say anything and pretend you are still searching, walk away, and then at some point announce you found it.” This allows the others to find the cache legitimately.

[+NotThePainter]

My favorite story involves doing a sunrise FTFP with my son. Easy FTFP, we come home. Check email and yeah, another one, but we are late!

 

We head out and are third to arrive. This is a multi with about 6 legs or so. We catch up the second to arrive and chat (we all knew each other), we agree that we should cooperate until we reach the final, then it is everyone for him self.

 

We get to the second to last stage and can't find it. But we see the first to arrive cacher at the final location. I realize that we really don't need the last digit, if I assume it is a 5, I'll be what, something like 30-50 feet off? My son and I talk it over with second to arrive, he stays, he wants accurate coords. We go to our fake GZ.

 

We greet First to Arrive, chat some and start looking. She's been looking for awhile.

 

Second to arrive gets the last coord (which we don't ask for). We're all looking.

 

Cache owner shows up. We chat a bit and get back to looking.

 

My son makes the find.

 

We all agreeed that he was first to find, not shared. He was pretty excited. (Normally we share them we we go out on the sunrise ones.)

 

The secret? Talking with the other cachers.

 

We all had a great time, and met fourth and fifth to arrive we we got back to the parking lot.

[+Sioneva]

One of my Geocaching pet peeves is when I find myself in a group hunt and the cacher who finds it first (especially a cleverly hidden micro) pulls the cache out of its hidey hole, holds it in his hand for all to see and yells “I found it!” So what are the rest of us supposed to do now? It’s not really a find for the others and it isn’t a DNF either. I know of at least a half a dozen caches I’ve been to where this has happened and have not signed the log because I really didn’t find it.

 

I now have no problem asking the others, “If you spot it don’t say anything and pretend you are still searching, walk away, and then at some point announce you found it.” This allows the others to find the cache legitimately.

 

You have a much different style of caching than I do. By your system, I have many 'illegitimate' finds. But hey, if yours works for you, and mine for me, we're all happy, right?