Night Cache & Firetacks ... What Is Better

[+TexasGringo]

What is better for a night cache....3D or 4D fire tacks?

 

What is easier to set up and see with a flashlight?

[+Cardinal Red]

What is better for a night cache....3D or 4D fire tacks?

 

What is easier to set up and see with a flashlight?

 

In the context of Geocaching - Looking head on and following a defined route on flat terrain. it's a toss up. Backtracking (from 180 degrees) is not a strong point of 3D. 4D has more flat surfaces facing straight out, and would be easier to spot from multiple approaches. I have seen 4D in the final cluster marking the actual cache location. I liked and used 3D, and the Geocacher should be prepared to use the GPS to find their way back out if necessary. Now those angled pyramid sides on 3D might come in handy on peaks and in valleys from opposite trail directions.

[+klossner]

I spent a couple of daytime hours setting up a cache course with 3D tacks, then tried it at night and found it was completely fubar. I pulled them out and rebuilt the course with 4D tacks, and I did that at night with an assistant to check my work as I went.

 

Despite the manufacturer's literature, it's just not true that a tack surface will reflect light back from any angle. The flashlight beam must hit a surface pretty close to perpendicular to provide a useful reflection.

 

Note that the 4D tacks have only three reflective surfaces, not the five you might expect from the literature.

 

If you're not in a hurry, order the sample pack so you can evaluate each of the tacks yourself.

[+TexasGringo]

Thanks for both replies. I was trying to verify my experience.

 

I had a couple 3D fire tacks and stuck them in a tree. I went about 100 feet away and didn't see squat with either a regular flashlight and a 6 watt LED light...holding the light at various positions. After placing them sideways to the way I was approaching them (the pyramid point to the side rather that pointing at me), I could eventually get a small glint...but I also knew what I was looking for amoung the 100's of fireflies in the park...others may not have seen it.

 

I have some 3M Stealth reflective tape (Black Color) and I'll try to make something about the size of a quarter to see if that can be seen better.

 

I'm also going to try some FireTape...and see if one of those hanging from a tree limb can be seen any better.

Edited July 9, 2007 by GURU4HIRE

[bogleman]

I got carried away with my night cache & a specific tree. I gave them the point for the trailhead and then told them to walk until they found the reflectors (4D) where they would find the cache with the final numbers inside.

 

I was not happy with spacing and I could not see them all that well so I found a nice tree and filled it with the reflectors (about 50 - white & green eyes) - you would have to be blind to miss it. I could see them from about 150'.

 

I've gone through during the day and you can't see the tacks unless you really look hard, plus I put them up a bit higher than eye level (about 10-15 feet into the tree).

 

I also have a buddy who had some reflective scraps left over so I decorated the cache and the final location to add to the excitement

[Clan Riffster]

I've built two night caches covering a total of about 3 miles of reflective trails through the woods, and because of the excessive distance, opted against firetacks. These two trails utilize literally hundreds of reflectors, and with the cost of firetacks, I could buy Microsoft by the time I got done buying that many. I discovered a much less expensive alternative, that actually reflects more light than firetacks;

 

Scotchlite 3M reflective tape, sold in 3' long rolls in hardware stores for around $5, (look around the mailbox accessories), looks like the same material as what's on the firetacks. If you cut it into 1/2" x 1" strips, then cut the strips diagonally, you get 144 reflective triangles per roll. Attach them to trees with a staple gun. The benefit besides cost is that you end up with a larger reflective surface, making them easier to see at a distance. The down side is that you lose the 3D effect. Once you pass 90 degrees from dead on, you can't see them.

 

Something to try.

[+TexasGringo]

Yes...I have several sheets of 3M Scotchlight Plus (680 Series) Adhesive Reflective tape.

 

I was going to get some Large washers and put this tape on both sides of it and hang it on a tree branch.

 

I'm going to do some trial runs with different things...I would hate to create a Night Cache and can't find my way in or out...lol.

[+ar_kayaker]

I found a place online a long time ago where you could order the 3M black tape in rolls. I think it was 25 yards of tape x 3" wide for $30 plus shipping. I used that with big headed roofing nails (the head of the nail is nearly 1/2" across and it worked great. I've never tested the angle beyond 20 degrees off, but I know you don't need to be straight on either.

 

The black tape is hard to come by in rolls though. I'm not sure why.

 

AK

[+TexasGringo]

I bought mine from here:

 

http://www.cyclegadgets.com/Products/orderbysku.asp

 

SKU = RK-99B

 

They are 2 ..... 8 1/2 x 11 sheets of Black 3M Scotchlight Plus (680 Series) Adhesive Reflective tape.

 

Expensive = Yes.

 

Now, I just did a trial run with FireTape...they are plastic with velcro on each end so you can hang them on a tree branch. I can see those for about 150' shining my flash light at the ground or up in the air. I never did see the FireTack which was about 1' above the FireTape.

[+The Jester]

I've used Fire Tacks 3D with no problems. One question, were you setting the tack so the top was pointing at the spot where the flashlight would be used? If so, that may be why you're not seeing it. They need to on the side of the tree, 90 degrees to path of travel.

[+trail hound]

A better way to use the tape is to cut strips in various lengths (for different size branches) and just fold the tape over a small branch that is at a right angle to the trail and stick it to itself...Making a little tab or flag.

It will stick much better and last a long time. Plus it will be seen from both directions

Edited July 10, 2007 by trail hound

[CoyoteRed]

A better way to use the tape is to cut strips in various lengths (for different size branches) and just fold the tape over a small branch that is at a right angle to the trail and stick it to itself...Making a little tab or flag.

It will stick much better and last a long time. Plus it will be seen from both directions

This is what deer hunters have been doing for years.

 

Just take a 2" roll and try cutting 1/8" and 1/4" strips off it. The 3M stuff, especially the conspicuity tape found in the automotive sections for marking trailers, is made for long lasting exterior applications. Fold it over and stick it to itself for a long lasting installation. If the object is too large for one piece of tape use two.

 

Go to your local sign shop. Most will have reflective vinyl in various colors like green or brown. The colored sign vinyl is not as bright as the conspicuity tape so you might have to place these closer together.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

I spent a couple of daytime hours setting up a cache course with 3D tacks, then tried it at night and found it was completely fubar. I pulled them out and rebuilt the course with 4D tacks, and I did that at night with an assistant to check my work as I went.

 

Well, Umm...It sounds like you were able to REPAIR it after all, so I guess it wasn't really fubar?

 

Can something be "partially" fubar?

 

Aww...Don' cry, Ahm jus' funnin'.

Edited July 11, 2007 by WRITE SHOP ROBERT

[CoyoteRed]

Well, Umm...It sounds like you were able to REPAIR it after all, so I guess it wasn't really fubar?

Sometimes the R is "recognition" and, I suspect, fits.

[+desync0]

http://www.streetglo.net/reflective.tape/

 

1/10th of an inch up to 2" @ 37.5 feet long rolls, from $7.49 up to $29.95...

 

They also had 3 different sized sheets too.

 

http://www.flighthelmet.com/cgi-bin/shoppe...ectiveTape.html

 

Sells the 1 inch and 2 inch for $2 and $4 per yard.

 

There was also someone on ebay selling the sheet for about a buck each (10 for 9.95)

[+lmcgisme]

When I set up my night cache I used reflective tacks I got at Walmart in the sporting goods dept. Much cheaper than fire tacks, and people don't seem to be having a problem seeing them. The cache is in your area, GURU4HIRE, you can check it out and see if you like those reflectors: Hoot Owl Hike

[+TexasGringo]

Imcgisme....I'll take a look this weekend.

Edited July 11, 2007 by GURU4HIRE

[+wavector]

I wanted a night cache that was well and truly visible, here is what I did.

I purchased several rigid plumbing supply lines made of plastic and I purchased bike safety tape at a bike store, I paid about $4.00 for about 4 feet of 1" red tape and a couple of bucks each for 2 toilet supply lines.

I cut the plumbing supply lines into cylinders and wrapped each cylinder completely with the reflective bike tape. I made some small ones about 1/2 inch long and and some longer ones about 1 inch long. I tied 30 lb test fishing line to a 1" screw and threaded that through the cylinder pushing the screw up inside, it adds weight and ensures that the cylinder hangs vertically from the line. I then filled the cylinder with silicon and I tied the fishing line to those hooks you use for hanging Christmas ornaments. When the silicon dried I had a very solid reflective cylinder hanging from fishing line with a non-destructive hook and a little weight on the bottom to get it hanging straight up and down, it gets windy here and without the added weight the hanging cylinders get blown around. I left these hanging in trees above the trail, I used a stepladder to place them up about 10 or 12 feet.

The cylinders work well for walkers moving in any direction, these are very cheap, indestructible and are far more visible than tacks. The hooks allow these "lights" to be placed above the trail and they make it very easy for seekers to spot them from a long distance.

I then placed these so that walkers go right by the actual cache site yet because of the multi-directional capability of the "cylinder lights" they can backtrack very easily. I marked the end of the trail with three "lights" and most seekers get that far and then turn around and backtrack to the cache site.

 

I used several other techniques right at the cache site, all involving the use of various reflective devices that I made. I made a pair of "white eyes" that are wired onto a tree, they are deep cylinders (I used sheet metal and painted them brown so they cannot be seen. You don't see any reflection unless you are looking directly down the cylinder body, the relfective tape is at the bottom of the cylinder. To see these "white eyes" you must stand in a certain place. I made a set of red eyes by attaching reflective tape to a plastic rat I purchased at the dollar store. I used a razor knife to cut off the rat's painted eyes leaving a nice flat platform, I then used reflective tape and glued it to the place where the rat's eyes were. This "red eyed rat" has actually been attacked by a creature and had his nose bitten off!

 

It really pays to work through your night cache a few times to ensure that it works well. It is a great opportunity to use your imagiation especially on the final approach.

 

Night caches are a lot of maintenance though, I usually visit mine after every visitor to ensure that the cache is hidden well for the next cacher. People re-hiding it are doing so at night and it really helps to do it during the day to ensure the adventure will play well for the next seeker.

 

Good luck with your night cache, I really enjoy the comments and logs on my night cache and it is one of my favourites.

[+TexasGringo]

Thanks for posting some of your ideas.....the "White Eyes" sounds interesting.

[+bigeddy]

What is better for a night cache....3D or 4D fire tacks?

 

What is easier to set up and see with a flashlight?

I've placed 3 short night caches (quarter to half-mile) using a variety of Fire Tacks depending on the situation. As noted previously, the 3D work best when perpendicular to travel or when inclined. The 4D are somewhat more visible and easier to place; they would be my choice if I had to use just one type. Instruct people to hold their flashlight at eye level for the best reflection.

 

The "stealth" color is great where they can be spaced relatively close together, say, 40' to 80'; they just disappear in the day. The "blaze" and especially the "ice" and "diamond" colors are even more visible. The most visible are the out-of-production HotDots that I've used at several hundred feet.

 

I like the Fire Tacks because they are easy to use, adaptable to many situations, and have their own low-impact fastener. If one tack doesn't work just add another to catch the light differently or space them closer together.

Edited July 15, 2007 by bigeddy

[Jackmerlin1]

4d fire tacks

 

deff

jackmerlin1

[CoyoteRed]

I just bought some reflective material for possible inclusion to our store. I have black, green and brown. It look pretty promising so far.

[CoyoteRed]

I just bought some reflective material for possible inclusion to our store. I have black, green and brown. It look pretty promising so far.

They're online. You can find our store through my sig or profile.

[+Geojunkie_George]

I've found several night caches that were hidden with these:

 

Remington Reflective Trail Markers

 

I had no trouble seeing them and, although not invisible during the day, they blend in well with the surroundings so they're not that obvious!

 

Also, at $5+- for 50, you can't beat the price!!

Edited February 22, 2013 by GeoJunkie2012