Kayaks and Canoes

[vtmtnman]

I've been itching to get a canoe for a long time,but I've been seeing all these folks in the forums talk about Kayaks.I'm looking in to them for traveling to small/large ponds in Green Mountain National Forest or the Adirondacks,for fishing and short cruising around.Maybe even use them for traveling while hunting,but that's a long shot.

 

Besides probably better for solo use,would a kayak be better or canoe?Any advice?Recommendations?Experiences?I have zilch experience with Kayaks,some experience with canoes.I know that I would love wood but too expensive for tossin' in the back of the truck and knockin' around in shallow rivers and tight ponds,so that leaves plastic/fiberglass or aluminum.

[+Monkeybrad]

I have played around in both kayaks and canoes, and finally settled somewhere in the middle. My wife and I have an Old Town Otter XT kayak, that she loves. It is perfect for throwing in the back of the truck for a quick trip, and at 9 feet long and 35-ish pounds this is the boat of choice if you have to carry it any distance. I used to use a 12 foot fiberglass canoe, which is very lightweight, but is ungainly to carry and although it had pretty good secondary stability, it always felt very tippy to me, so I spent more time worrying about tipping than enjoying paddling. While doing a river cache with friends, I tried out a sit-on-top kayak and fell in love with it. It has everything I love about kayaking, but the open top is a lot more comfortable for me and definitely less claustrophobic.

 

I did some research and found several great options for SOT Kayaks and fell in love with the Mad River Synergy series, and was going to buy one of those, until I ran across a deal on a Mainstream Jon Buoy that I could not pass up. The JB is a hybrid cross between a SOT kayak, a canoe, and a pirogue. It is 11 feet long, about thirty inches wide and has a capacity of 450 pounds. It can be paddled like a kayak or a canoe, it has oarlocks for rowing, a mount for a small sail or a transom mount for a trolling motor. It weighs in at 85 pounds, so it is a pain to carry for long distances, but not that big of a deal for me to handle while loading or launching alone. It has incredible stability, you can lean it over far enough to swamp it without flipping, and I am even able to stand in it without too much difficulty. I tested it during a recent trip and even when swamped and filled with water it will not sink, and I was able to float in it while it was full of water and bail it out. For my use it has turned out to be the perfect boat. However, most of my floating is done in lakes or ponds, or on slow rivers. My forays into even light whitewater are rare at best. As much as I love this boat, I do not think it would be very good in Class II rapids and anything above that would be a nightmare. The triple keel hull that makes it so great on flatwater would put you at the mercy of the river. I have talked to people who have run some faster moving stuff in one of these and they say it is possible, but that it takes practice. I think that this is generally true of all SOT kayaks. I don't mind, since that is not my use, and I love the freedom and versatility of a SOT, where I can swing my feet over the side and fish, or lay down and drift while enjoying the sun.

 

Here are a couple of pics of the JB in action, I will try to make some that show the inner configuration (it even has cupholders) in the next few days. Hope this helps!

 

 

Edited July 2, 2007 by Monkeybrad

[vtmtnman]

Say now...I like that!You kind of get the best of both worlds there.

[+Wayfinders]

I have the Old Town Predator K-140 and I love it. Not too big, not too small. It has the same hull as Old Town's tandem model only with one (adjustable) seat. It comes with a holder for shotgun shells and other things as well as a rod holder for fishing. It also came with an anchor. I have to say the shotgun shell holder was only glued to the bottom of the yak and the heat took care of that pretty quickly. There is room in there for hunter and dog and plenty of equipment. I think it weighs a little over 60 lbs. though. I'd stay real far away from aluminum, it's heavy and it sticks in the shallows.

[+Monkeybrad]

That is a good looking boat! The benefits of a yak, without being cooped up inside the thing. Very cool.

[+Wayfinders]

Thanks MB!

It's quite stable too. I can get in and out of it on the water without tipping it over.

Here's a link to the K-140 and other Old Town sportsmans kayaks.

[+briansnat]

I think a canoe is a bit more versatile than a kayak. The right canoe can do it all and do it well, whitewater, tripping, fishing, hunting, cruising. You can do these in a kayak but it's tough to find one kayak that does each well. You shouldn't even think of taking a touring kayak into whitewater, but most river tripping canoes will handle at least class II and probably class III whitewater.

 

I've fished from a kayak, but doing it from a canoe is so much easier. My big quarrel with a kayak is that you are stuck in one position all the time. In a canoe I can sit, stand or kneel. Also if you have a kayak and want to bring a friend along, he had better have a kayak too. With a canoe he can just hop in the front and you're off.

 

For solo use a kayak may be a bit easier if you are not an experienced paddler, but if you have a decent knowledge of paddling technique, going solo in a canoe is not a problem at all. In fact there are many canoes designed specifically for solo paddling and some that handle solo and tandem well enough.

 

One very good canoe for all around solo and tandem use is a Wenonah Prospector 16. Actually a number of canoe companies make a Prospector model. It's a tried and proven design. There are some minor variations though between each. Wenonah and Nova Craft make the best Prospectors to my mind. They are good on the river and track well enough for lake use. For extended solo trips however you might want something that tracks better and has less "rocker" (the front to back curve of the bottom. More rocker means quicker turning, less means better tracking).

 

Another good canoe for solo and tandem use is a Wenonah Spirit II. It has less rocker than the Prospector and will do better on longer lake trips.

 

I have an Mad River Explorer which I have no problem paddling solo, but it really shines as a tandem. A similar, excellent choice would be a Nova Craft Pal.

 

Many models come in several lengths. The shorter ones are usually better for solo, or whitewater and the longer are better for tandem use and tripping. 16 ft is generally the best all around size for solo and tandem use. You definitely don't want paddle an 18+ ft canoe solo (unless its one of the specialty racing models) and you generally wouldn't want to take a 15 ft or shorter canoe on an extended trip.

Edited July 3, 2007 by briansnat

[vtmtnman]

I have the Old Town Predator K-140 and I love it. Not too big, not too small. It has the same hull as Old Town's tandem model only with one (adjustable) seat. It comes with a holder for shotgun shells and other things as well as a rod holder for fishing. It also came with an anchor. I have to say the shotgun shell holder was only glued to the bottom of the yak and the heat took care of that pretty quickly. There is room in there for hunter and dog and plenty of equipment. I think it weighs a little over 60 lbs. though. I'd stay real far away from aluminum, it's heavy and it sticks in the shallows.

I was checking that one out at Cabela's web site.Looked like a good one as well.I also did a web search on the one MonkeyBrad has.The thing I see over and over with it is it's very stable,dosen't paddle well and is a little heavy.But I do like that one so far.Even in the search I found two used ones on Craigslist.One was a single and one a tandem.Around 500 used but they looked in great shape.Hmmm.I still gots time.

[vtmtnman]

I've fished from a kayak, but doing it from a canoe is so much easier. My big quarrel with a kayak is that you are stuck in one position all the time. In a canoe I can sit, stand or kneel. Also if you have a kayak and want to bring a friend along, he had better have a kayak too. With a canoe he can just hop in the front and you're off.

That's my concerns with the canoe vs. kayak thing.I usually have a buddy fishing with me,but sometimes I go by my lonesome.Plus if I used the kayak for hunting,for hunting,it'd be limited to bird hunting,as there'd be no place to put the deer.At least with the canoe there'd be room.

[vtmtnman]

And of course,anytime I show the least bit of interest in a product.

A search on each of those sites indicates that they don't carry them anymore.

[+Isonzo Karst]

It's tough to recommend 'yak v canoe, or sit on tip v. sit in ... it depends

 

We own a large touring canoe, which is the right boat for overnight paddle trips. It's long, so it tracks well and carries some speed (length = speed)(length= not agile)(length=weight). You're always trading off one thing for another. We own bottom of the line short, light 'yaks. They waddle like ducks, but they're wonderful for the tight padding that we mostly do in mangrove tunnels and 'barely enough water' spring fed runs. My husband favors a sit on top. I think it's wet, but it is easier to get in and out of...

Try some stuff see what you like. Spend $$ on a good paddle, it's the working tool and really makes a difference.

[+briansnat]

For a while was torn between a canoe or a kayak. Since we could only afford one boat we went with a canoe (Mad River Explorer 16) because of the versatility.

 

I do have my eyes on these Hobie Mirage Drive yaks and maybe with my wife's next bonus or next years tax return we will get a pair. I've seen people fishing from them and they look awesome. Pedal drive for hands free maneuvering and paddles for quickly getting to and from the fishing hot spot. Built in live wells in one model, rod holders, the works.

 

Way cool. Not versatile enough to warrant it being my only boat, but I think it would augment our canoe quite well.

 

 

[vtmtnman]

For a while was torn between a canoe or a kayak. Since we could only afford one boat we went with a canoe (Mad River Explorer 16) because of the versatility.

 

I do have my eyes on these Hobie Mirage Drive yaks and maybe with my wife's next bonus or next years tax return we will get a pair. I've seen people fishing from them and they look awesome. Pedal drive for hands free maneuvering and paddles for quickly getting to and from the fishing hot spot. Built in live wells in one model, rod holders, the works.

 

Way cool. Not versatile enough to warrant it being my only boat, but I think it would augment our canoe quite well.

 

 

THAT is cool as well.

[CacheNCarryMA]

If there are any kayak rental places near you, check if they have an end of season sale. The one near me has an annual sale every September to rotate their rental fleet. Kayaks at the sale can be as much as 50% off retail prices. They have been used for the season, but if you aren't going to use it much and don't want to spend a lot of money, it may be something to consider.

 

Also, check Craigslist. Kayaks are like exercise equipment. Some people don't stick with it and often need to get rid of equipment that's taking up space.

[+Monkeybrad]

I agree with the above, craigslist and end of season sales are the best spots to check if you are flexible in what you want. That is how I ended up with mine, bought it on ebay for about half the list price.

 

Speaking of mine, after the discussion last week, I took mine out on the fourth and ran some Class I and II stuff on the Duck River. I discovered that it is very hard to control on the rapids, as I had heard. If you ever get out of line, the molded keel lines on the bottom get caught by the current, and pretty much put you at the mercy of the river. I am a fairly strong guy, but I was not able to power my way out of currents that would have been reasonably simple to escape in a traditional kayak. On the other hand, in the flat stretches between the rapids, which was 99% of the trip, it handled like a dream. It also carried me, and all of my and my wife's gear 16 miles without complaint or even offering to tip, so I think it will be staying in the fleet.

 

I am very interested in the Old Town that Wayfinders posted earlier. I will definitely be checking that out, it looks like it has the room to spread out and carry lots of gear, while maintaining kayak-style handling. Along those lines, I am still in love with the Mad River Synergy series as well.

 

I also like the looks of the one Brian posted, but I feel pretty confident that I would tear the pedal drive off of it on my first run down the river, but I bet it would be awesome for lake use.

 

Have a great weekend, I am off to repair a ding I put in my canoe the last time I had it out, and to install some "yakgrips" on my paddle. If they work I will post here next week with a review.

Edited July 6, 2007 by Monkeybrad

[Ferreter5]

Another good canoe for solo and tandem use is a Wenonah Spirit II. It has less rocker than the Prospector and will do better on longer lake trips.

We have a Wenonah Spirit II for our family of four (wife, 8-year-old, 6-year-old, and me). It's been great! So far we've done only flatwater paddling and it's been very enjoyable.

 

I've never tried to paddle it solo, but I get the feeling it could be a bit of work since it's 17-feet long. If I were doing a lot of solo paddling I'd probably be looking at a shorter canoe or a solo kayak (haven't done a lot of looking into kayaks as yet).

 

The place where I bought mine (in the Rochester NY area) lets people try before they buy. You can take out any boats you want for a trial paddle and they even offer half-day and full-day rentals if you really want to spend some time checking out a boat. I highly recommend having paddled a specific boat before you buy it so you don't get surprised. What feels good to someone else may not feel good to you. You could probably also find a paddling club nearby you and they'd most likely be happy to take you along on an outing.

[+tsunrisebey]

I have a Dagger Blackwater 12.0 Kayak, been using it for about 3 years now.

 

I was born and raised using canoes (which I still love for many reasons) but the kayak gives me, as a single person, many more opportunities to get in the water and go.

 

I can flyfish from mine (does take some practice, lol) and I can drop a skeg for straight line paddling and manuever in as little as a couple inches of water (a canoe does not allow for this). I can lift it by myself into my truck and carry/drag if necessary quite a distance. I also like the hatch system that allows me to keep my camping gear gear dry, even if I rolled which is tough to do in a longer kayak. I also like being close to the water (you sit pretty low, so everything is at close range, I remember the first time I saw big fish from my kayak, it startled me a bit at first).

 

Learning to paddle isn't too difficult but it is different than paddling a canoe. Proper technique is a must to save you from getting sore by improperly paddling. I think it's a pretty smooth ride too! My personal opinion is that you can get to a few more places in a kayak than a canoe.

 

I would definitely take lessons if you are considering a kayak, I did and I'm glad I did it. This gives you an opportunity to test different kayaks, learn paddling technique, and how to get back in your kayak if you fall out (which could potentially save your life). You'll need some specialized equipment that you wouldn't normally need with a canoe, so price wise you may end up spending more money to outfit yourself but you don't need anything fancy. I'd also consider forking over the $$$ to get a good paddle, like fiberglass. Lightweight, in my opinion, makes a big difference if you're going to be paddling some distances. Buying a kayak and the equipment that goes with it should take some research on your part to ensure everything fits and works properly for you. For example; a life vest, make sure you try one on and then sit in a kayak and pretend to paddle. This will help you figure out which vest won't hinder your paddling.

 

Anyhow, kayaking is great and you can do anything and go just about anywhere in it!

 

Cons: Can't bring my dogs and on a recreational/touring kayak (the longer one) it's tough to make a sharp turn but you can make a pretty good one with some practice and learning the proper technique.

 

If you are seriously considering a kayak and decide to take lessons, many places will refund the lesson fee and give a discount if you buy the kayak and majority of the equipment from them (if you went through a local sporting good store). If they don't mention, ask and strike up a deal.

 

Ok, there is my 2 cents on the kayak thing Love canoes too but love kayaks more

 

tsun

[+Mopar]

Tsun summed things up pretty well. We have both yaks and a canoe. Different boats for different things. Our canoe can carry 2 people and all our camping gear, but it's harder (not impossible) to paddle solo, and totally impossible to get on/off the roof of the car solo.

Our rec/touring yaks (Wilderness Systems Tsunami 125 and 140) carry less gear but are ok for a picnic or weekend camping trip. They are easy for one person to handle.

 

I agree with everyone with the need to decide what type of yak you need and at least sit in it before you buy it, but if I wanted a good, general purpose boat I would hands down go with a Pungo.

The 120 is maneuverable and easy to handle, and the large cockpit means it's easy to get in and out of. It's got enough storage for a day trip, and if you use backpacking gear (hey, this *is* the backpacking forum, right?) you could probably camp with it as well.

[+Mopar]

Oh, and to answer the OP's question RE:plastic, fiberglass, aluminum.

 

Aluminum is strong, but heavy. My 15ft aluminum canoe weights close to 100lbs empty. Fiberglass, kevlar and carbon fiber are lightweight but pricey and a little fragile. I hate to say it but the current rotomolded plastic boats are hard to beat for general purpose paddling. Reasonably light, stong, and durable. Planet has a friend with one (a Pungo, I think) that was bent in half around a tree during a flood. After a few hours of sitting in the sun it popped right back into shape with nary a crease.

[+briansnat]

I agree with everyone with the need to decide what type of yak you need and at least sit in it before you buy it, but if I wanted a good, general purpose boat I would hands down go with a Pungo.

The 120 is maneuverable and easy to handle, and the large cockpit means it's easy to get in and out of. It's got enough storage for a day trip, and if you use backpacking gear (hey, this *is* the backpacking forum, right?) you could probably camp with it as well.

 

 

I found paddling my brother's Pungo 120 to be akin to paddling a bathtub. It was very slow for a kayak and though it turned easily, it didn't track particularly well. It was very stable however. Almost impossible to flip.

I think your WS Tsunamis would be better choice.

 

Our canoe can carry 2 people and all our camping gear, but it's harder (not impossible) to paddle solo, and totally impossible to get on/off the roof of the car solo.

 

I can get my MR Explorer on and off the roof of my CRV alone and I do it fairly frequently. If I have another person I admit it's a lot easier, but far from impossible alone. The Explorer is fairly heavy at 73 lbs. A 10-20 lb lighter canoe would be a breeze to get on and off the roof solo. I recently watch a petite lady that had to be in her 70's put a solo canoe (Bell Prodigy) on the roof of her small sedan by herself. I asked if she needed help but she said she had it under control.

Edited July 7, 2007 by briansnat

[+Mopar]

 

I found paddling my brother's Pungo 120 to be akin to paddling a bathtub. It was very slow for a kayak and though it turned easily, it didn't track particularly well. It was very stable however. Almost impossible to flip.

I think your WS Tsunamis would be better choice.

How old is your brother's pungo? They redesigned them a few years ago. I have friends with both the old style (for awhile they were still selling the old model as a pungo classic) as well as the new, and they are totally different boats, with several improvements in the newer model, though neither seems especially slow or hard to track from what I've seen. The large cockpit of the pungo makes them much easier to get in/out of then a traditional yak, and there is plenty of room for a daypack, cooler, dog, or small child in the cockpit with you as well.

 

I can get my MR Explorer on and off the roof of my CRV alone and I do it fairly frequently. If I have another person I admit it's a lot easier, but far from impossible alone. The Explorer is fairly heavy at 73 lbs. A 10-20 lb lighter canoe would be a breeze to get on and off the roof solo. I recently watch a petite lady that had to be in her 70's put a solo canoe (Bell Prodigy) on the roof of her small sedan by herself. I asked if she needed help but she said she had it under control.

My canoe is built like a tank, and weighs almost as much. At 100 awkward pounds I have about an equal chance of putting it thru a window as on the roof if I try it solo. Of course, as many people may know, the whole story around me meeting my wife starts with me needing someone to help get the canoe off the roof of my car at a paddling event!

I guess a small, lightweight solo canoe would be no harder to handle on land then a kayak.

Edited July 7, 2007 by Mopar

[+briansnat]

My canoe is built like a tank, and weighs almost as much. At 100 awkward pounds I have about an equal chance of putting it thru a window as on the roof if I try it solo.

 

That's why canoe choice is important. My MR Explorer can be paddled solo OK. My real dream canoe is a Prospector which might be the best all around design ever. Nova Craft's Prospector 16 only weighs 53 lbs and

though it's designed as a tandem, can easily be paddled solo.

 

You wouldn't want however to paddle an Old Town Tripper or Wenonah Minnesota solo.

[+Mopar]

My canoe is built like a tank, and weighs almost as much. At 100 awkward pounds I have about an equal chance of putting it thru a window as on the roof if I try it solo.

 

That's why canoe choice is important. My MR Explorer can be paddled solo OK. My real dream canoe is a Prospector which might be the best all around design ever. Nova Craft's Prospector 16 only weighs 53 lbs and

though it's designed as a tandem, can easily be paddled solo.

 

You wouldn't want however to paddle an Old Town Tripper or Wenonah Minnesota solo.

OK, for shats and giggles I did some digging and think I found my model canoe on an old archived copy of the manufacturer's website. Not 100% sure because the canoe is stored at my mother-in-law's house 40 miles away.

Osage 15' standard. They claim it only weighs 69lbs, but it sure feels heavier! And we have the same car and the only way might be able to get it on the roof would be from the back of the car and slide/scratch it forward .

[+briansnat]

They claim it only weighs 69lbs, but it sure feels heavier! And we have the same car and the only way might be able to get it on the roof would be from the back of the car and slide/scratch it forward .

 

I have the roof rack which helps.

[+Packanack]

I say first boat= Canoe, I also say a lot depends on your size. There are some kayaks I can not get into at all, 6'2" , makes it tough to get in an out of some of them, a canoe is simply a step out.

 

Visit this site: If you want to learn about sit on tops.

 

http://www.kayakfishingstuff.com/default.asp

 

If you want the low down on sit on tops. Check them out. Ran into one of these guys out caching and he was like a maniac about sit on tops. He was so infectious that I almost went out and bought a sit on top that morning, then I remembered I have a child in college, and some sense of responsibility. But I can dream of fishing the incoming for Stripers on Cape Cod Bay off of Brewster, and having done that in a canoe, I know in my heart that a sit on top is the way to go.

 

But I have been doing harmless research. The Hobie boat Brian Snat pictured is supposed to be the best for grinding into a head wind, which for paddlers is the agony. That boat with paddle and peddle is supposedly faster than even the sleekest composite touring kayak.

 

But they ( the Hobies) tend to be cumbersome to lift and rack. Sit on tops are all the rage for fishing now. All the Canoe and Kayak Magazines are featuring them now in the current issues. One reason they are so popular is that they are easy to mount.

 

I have a canoe, Old Town Pathfinder, a beamy all arounder, 15 feet -57 Pounds Royalex which I would recommend for economy and weight and indestructability. Good for camping, good for fishing, not the fastest but has a nice glide. Roomy, stable, have stood in it, which is a good test of stability.

 

I also have an Old Town Loon 138, it is also pretty beamy, but longer so it loses some of the tub feel, has a more open cockpit, better in the wind than the canoe any day. 50 pounds Nice for solo trips. Good for someone of my size--big

 

I also have a Wee Lassie, cedar stip home built, double paddle solo canoe, 30 pounds--I am too big for this boat and currently am refinishing it to sell. But if you are one of those 160 pound wiry people this is the way to go. I fell in love with the concept of this boat and spent a ton of time building it in my yard, only to find that when I was done, that it was not particularly suited to someone of my size. Cedar Strippers are the prettiest boats on the water.

 

If you are looking for a small solo canoe, Old Town makes a short solo royalex boat called The Pack, 33 pounds and I see a fair number of them around, cheaper than many others. I do not know if Mad River is still making their utility solo The Guide, which was considered to be among the best solos--performed well had room and did not price people out of the market.

 

For a first boat I would most assuredly go for a utility all around canoe. The Mad River Explorer is regarded as the best of the breed. I would also see if you can get some boat time in before buying, to make sure that it is not just a passing desire . I would check out the links at

 

http://www.oldtowncanoe.com/kayaks/

 

Old Town is part of Johnson Outdoor and they own 5 or 6 brands of watercraft.

 

http://www.npmb.com/cms2/forum.php

 

For gear review.

 

http://www.madrivercanoe.com/links.php

 

Mad River is also part of a conglomerate now.

 

There has been a big contraction within the business, so many of the brands that were stand alone could not make it on their own in the highly competitive market, so they merged .

 

Last comment, last Sunday, I took kayak out at Sunrise and did a series of BrianSnat caches on Split Rock Reservoir here in NJ, and it was the one of the most enjoyable caching experiences I have had. There is something about messing around in boats.

[+SharpShin']

 

Osage 15' standard. They claim it only weighs 69lbs, but it sure feels heavier! And we have the same car and the only way might be able to get it on the roof would be from the back of the car and slide/scratch it forward .

 

You might want to try a bathroom mat laid on the roof edge of your vehicle when sliding your craft onto vehicle roof from the rear.

 

John

[+Criminal]

Well that's it, you guys are killin' me. Ok, I'm in the market for a kayak or canoe now.

[mtbikernate]

I'm going out next weekend to test paddle a bunch of boats. I'm pretty sure (but not 100% set) on getting a solo boat each for my wife and I, but the potential exists to get a tandem, too. Test paddling several boats will truly tell, I think.

 

Solo-purposed canoes (not a tandem flipped around backwards...been there done that) appeal to me because they offer the freedom of a solo boat, but also the ease of land maneuverability of the canoe and some of the load hauling capabilities. One I really want to test paddle is the Bell Yellowstone Solo (formerly the Wildfire). I'll probably also try out some kayaks, but since I paddle a variety of waters, it will be exceptionally difficult to find one that can even moderately handle all that I do.

 

Many of the versatile solo canoes (not the flatwater tripping models) are even lighter than a comparably sized kayak. The flatwater tripping canoes are FAST. Solo canoes can often be paddled with a double bladed paddle for more control, as well.

 

For canoes, I'd stay away from aluminum, stock polyethylene, and the cheap plastic laminates. They're HEAVY. You can shave a lot of weight by getting a royalex canoe (laminate of a foam core, abs plastic, and a vinyl skin). Royalex is nice and durable and is pretty much the only option for whitewater play boats. I think the only reason royalex is used here instead of fiberglass, kevlar, and carbon laminates has to do with how the boat reacts to an impact with a rock. With plastic, the boat is more likely to slide across (which leaves a nice gouge in your boat, but you continue onwards). Also, if you dump the boat and the river wraps it around a rock, log, or bridge pylon, there's a possibility you can get your boat back...somewhat intact.

 

Fiberglass, kevlar, and carbon can handle the impacts of a rock, but they react differently. Because of the gel coat, boats of these materials have a lot more 'stick' when they hit a rock, so they don't just slide off...you oftentimes have to get out and line the boat. Fine in fairly calm water. Not fine in crazy whitewater. These laminates really shine in the speed department, though. All else being equal, a boat made of plastic and one made from a stiffer layup will handle VERY differently because of the differences in stiffness. The flexier boat will feel more sluggish because the water flexes the hull. The stiffer boat will respond more quickly to paddle inputs.

 

For flatwater-heavy paddling, stiffer layups are the absolute way to go. These layups also work for a lot of river situations. If you know you'll be paddling low water or situations where you'll absolutely be hitting rocks or gravel bars, a plastic boat will be easier to handle.

 

Eventually, all plastic boats are going to end up succumbing to UV rays and will have to be scrapped or recycled. A boat from a glass, kevlar, or carbon layup can nearly be repaired indefinitely. Gel coats can be reapplied as often as necessary (if you hit rocks often, you'll probably be doing this regularly). Gouges in a royalex boat aren't easily repairable. Basically, the only solution is to add kevlar skid plates once they get particularly bad. Punctures can be patched if necessary.

 

Plastic boats made from polyethylene are even harder to repair (this goes for most kayaks, too) because not many adhesives stick to polyethylene. Aluminum boats are REALLY hard to repair correctly. Know anyone who can weld aluminum?

 

Basically, you need to evaluate the conditions where you will be paddling. Flat water, whitewater, slow moving water, BIG water (lakes, oceans). Some boats can handle a variety of these...others are more limited, but do well in what they can do. Don't discount the solo canoe. It's going to be a lot more versatile than a kayak, but they are more difficult to find because of the kayak fad (I have several paddling stores near me...only one sells any canoes, but they don't carry any solo models. I have to drive 3hrs away to find solo canoes to demo). You won't find many GOOD used canoes for sale. But strangely enough, I keep seeing those aluminum TANKS out there for $400+.

[vtmtnman]

<snipped extremely well informative post>

 

Aluminum boats are REALLY hard to repair correctly. Know anyone who can weld aluminum?

 

<snipped other part of informative post>

 

But strangely enough, I keep seeing those aluminum TANKS out there for $400+.

Since I've had some experience welding aluminum(It's a beeeeatch with a stick welder,but it can be done,TIG is made for that stuff)and will be going to welding school to become a certified welder,this isn't an issue for me.

 

This is one reason I think I want to go with aluminim.Readily availible,last forever,and I'm mostly using them in ponds and lakes,so the distance from truck to water isn't terrible if the boat is heavy.

 

I still think I want a kayak for solo trips though.Thanks everyone so far for contributing to the thread.

[vtmtnman]

Well that's it, you guys are killin' me. Ok, I'm in the market for a kayak or canoe now.

 

Welcome to the club.I never knew I wanted a kayak until I came to the forums.

[+briansnat]

This is one reason I think I want to go with aluminim. Readily availible,last forever,and I'm mostly using them in ponds and lakes,so the distance from truck to water isn't terrible if the boat is heavy.

 

Aluminum boats are very noisy (not great for fishing, drop a lure and every fish for a mile hears it), slow and most models that I've seen are very high in the front and rear and really grab the wind. There is no rocker to speak of, so they don't turn very quickly and if you take them on a river they grab onto rocks and won't let go.

 

Yeah, they last forever. My 16 ft Grumman is 30 years old and going strong. But there are just too many tradeoffs with an aluminum canoe. Besides a Royalex canoe that is taken reasonable care of will last very long too and is far more versatile.

[vtmtnman]

This is one reason I think I want to go with aluminim. Readily availible,last forever,and I'm mostly using them in ponds and lakes,so the distance from truck to water isn't terrible if the boat is heavy.

 

Aluminum boats are very noisy (not great for fishing, drop a lure and every fish for a mile hears it), slow and most models that I've seen are very high in the front and rear and really grab the wind. There is no rocker to speak of, so they don't turn very quickly and if you take them on a river they grab onto rocks and won't let go.

 

Yeah, they last forever. My 16 ft Grumman is 30 years old and going strong. But there are just too many tradeoffs with an aluminum canoe. Besides a Royalex canoe that is taken reasonable care of will last very long too and is far more versatile.

I had a chance on an old Montgomery Ward(remember them? ) aluminum canoe that a couple that I was doing yard work for wanted to sell for like 100 bucks.Made by Grumman.I tested it out on the Little lake,I liked it.I also used one of those plastic ones a long time ago with Mom and Dad going down the Battenkill.Battenkill canoe tours or something like that.They're right there on Rt 7 in Manchester/Sunderland/Arlington.Those I'd say where made for river runnin'.That aluminum one I'd never think about a river with that heavy monster.

[mtbikernate]

You might really want to go to a retailer and test paddle some QUALITY hulls. My folks have a MR Explorer 16 in triple tough. It's a heavy monster out of the water, but paddles quite nicely in the water (even with 4 adults in it). I would certainly consider one in royalex or even a different composite. Great versatile boat.

 

If you only test poor or mediocre designs, you don't know what you're missing from a good design. I would not necessarily assume that the boats an outfitter carries for rentals are good designs. Some are, but some rental operations carry whatever cheapest boat they can get at quantity.

 

My comment about so many of the aluminum tanks being available for $400 was a disparaging comment. I honestly don't think they're worth that much, especially for the well-used ones. I think $250 is probably a more reasonable price for a well cared for boat. Less if it's really beaten up on. I see more of those things upside down in backyards than I ever do on the water. And HOLY COW do they turn into solar ovens on a sunny afternoon. I think they're a great boat for keeping out at the cabin for the occasional use. But if you're going to cartop it to go paddling, look for something lighter. IMO, anything over 70lbs for a 16-17 footer is just too much for cartopping. Most Rx boats come in at the low to mid 60's, with a few in royalex lite weighing down under 60. Much more reasonable.

 

If you do settle on an alu boat, you will probably want to find yourself a canoe cart so you can more easily wheel it down to the water.

[+DammitNanet]

We've been using a WS Pungo 120 (him) and a Perception Acadia (me). After having rotator cuff surgery in June 2006, I wanted to trade up for something lighter. This past May I got a Current Designs Kestral 120. It's a composite kayak and weighs a little over 30 lbs. This is a great boat for a woman; it's light and I can put it on top of the Murano myself and talk about nice tracking. No more waiting to see who wants to go with me just so they can put the boats on the roof. I'm loving it. Current Designs has a nice line all around.

 

http://www.cdkayak.com/products/template/p...c3034885b172b56

 

[vtmtnman]

Thanks for all the feedback everybody.I'll be home soon and shopping.

[vtmtnman]

Thanks for all the feedback everybody.I'll be home soon and shopping.

[+CurmudgeonlyGal]

Thanks for all the feedback everybody.I'll be home soon and shopping.

 

Would you LEAVE already? We've been waiting for you to stop posting... and start posting stateside for DAYS!

 

 

michelle

[vtmtnman]

Thanks for all the feedback everybody.I'll be home soon and shopping.

 

Would you LEAVE already? We've been waiting for you to stop posting... and start posting stateside for DAYS!

 

 

michelle

But I like making everyone wait!

 

 

vtmtnman

[+fishingdude720]

If you plan on using it in the ocean like I use my kayak, an Ocean Kayak would be the besty. I, myself, have the Scrambler. It works wll in Oceans, bays, lagoons, and ponds. I have fished from it with no problem, rode in waves in it, and it is easy to get into in deep water. Plus if you get water in it, it goes out the holes in the bottom.

[vtmtnman]

If you plan on using it in the ocean like I use my kayak, an Ocean Kayak would be the besty. I, myself, have the Scrambler. It works wll in Oceans, bays, lagoons, and ponds. I have fished from it with no problem, rode in waves in it, and it is easy to get into in deep water. Plus if you get water in it, it goes out the holes in the bottom.

Nah no Ocean use.Mostly because we're a landlocked state.

[+Road Rabbit]

We've been using a WS Pungo 120 (him) and a Perception Acadia (me). After having rotator cuff surgery in June 2006, I wanted to trade up for something lighter. This past May I got a Current Designs Kestral 120. It's a composite kayak and weighs a little over 30 lbs. This is a great boat for a woman; it's light and I can put it on top of the Murano myself and talk about nice tracking. No more waiting to see who wants to go with me just so they can put the boats on the roof. I'm loving it. Current Designs has a nice line all around.

 

http://www.cdkayak.com/products/template/p...c3034885b172b56

 

Looks very similar to my little boat: a Hurricane Santee 116. Very strong, very light. About 35 lb. Easy to load on the roof, great for paddling around the local islands.

 

http://www.hurricaneaquasports.com/santee-116.html

[+Miragee]

I bought my Looksha Sport a few years ago, so it doesn't have the fancy color scheme this one has

 

 

I'm not an experienced kayaker, but I have taken it out the Mission Bay channel and onto the ocean . . . depending on the swell, and the tide, that can be quite exciting . . . You can't read the water the way you can when you are on a river . . . but what exciting fun that is!!

 

It's more regular use has been to go to the Humphrey's Concerts to listen to the performers for free . . .

 

I have a Yakima rack on my car and use a plastic-covered foam exercise pad I found at a Thrift Store to cushion the top of the car when I am moving the boat forward onto the rack.