Acceptable Note or Attack

[+TerryDad2]

A note was posted on one of my caches (an earthcache) over the weekend.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...da-969de34292d3

 

It appears to be in response to the a comment I made in the cache description to the Governor of California raising the fees to park in a state park. "There is a $10 parking fee (thanks Arnold). " The note continues into what I feel is a personal attack and belittles the analysis of the cache.

 

I sent the poster the following:

-- Copy of email sent to Zaphod357 --

Re: Your note on Cristianitos Fault & Nuclear Generation Plant? on 6/24/07

 

I see your point that the state needs to spend within its means. However, I find your perceived attitude in your post excessively negative and not conducive to an intelligent discussion or to respectful to the geocaching community.

 

Your post also gives me the impression that the analysis of the fault indicates that the fault could cause catastrophic failure of the plant. This is not the case. I very specifically keep the discussion related to what an active fault is, and the dating of the fault. The conclusion is that the fault does not pose a threat to the plant. A threat does not say a catastrophic failure.

 

Your discussion of terrorists is not relevant to the geologic discussion.

 

You also have no basis for your insults regarding my geologic knowledge. It is not called for and rude.

 

I would appreciate it if you would edit your post to express your opinions respectfully, keep to relevant topics, and base your statements on facts you can substantiate.

 

Am I just overreacting to a valid criticism of my cache page? I am considering deleting the note. How long do I wait to give the owner a chance to edit it if deletion is warrented?

[+briansnat]

Cache pages are no place for debates, political or otherwise. The poster was way out of line. If he had something to say he should have done so in an e-mail.

 

If it were me I'd delete the note. It's not related to the cache hunt and doesn't belong there.

[+robert]

Cache pages are no place for debates, political or otherwise.

I agree. The "Thanks, Arnold" should be removed, as should the note on the page by the person who took offense to it.

[+wimseyguy]

Assuming we have the whole story in front of us, and there isn't any history or angst between the two of you, he's out of line.

I don't see where you have introduced terrorism into the cache page nor the discussion.

I don't see where any of his post is relevant to a discussion of this earthcache for that matter. Besides, a cache page isn't the place for this type of discussion, that's what forums are for.

I'd give him 24 hours to reply or edit, then I would delete the post.

But that's just me....

[+carleenp]

I prefer that politics be left out of caching. So I can see why someone might not like the "Thanks Arnold" comment on the cache page. With that said, your Arnold comment is pretty darn mild, while the note left seems to be quite the over-reaction. Personally I would have just never responded. I also would not delete the note. It shows something about the person who left it that speaks for itself, and for better or for worse it is part of the cache's history now.

 

With that said, I don't think deleting a note that really has little to do with the hide is nearly as offensive as deleting a find log. This is especially true if others suddenly decide to start ranting through notes on the page, which can put the cache in jeopardy of being shut down. So I can also see an argument for deleting it, but if you do, I also suggest that you also edit the page to remove the comment that led to it.

Edited June 25, 2007 by carleenp

[+Renegade Knight]

...Am I just overreacting to a valid criticism of my cache page? I am considering deleting the note. How long do I wait to give the owner a chance to edit it if deletion is warrented?

 

I think a log or note is fair game to state your opinion on something or tell a story, or use as a blog etc. It's hard to come up with things to write when you have found a bazillion caches. In your case your comment does invite a rebuttal (or agreement) that could be part of a cache log.

 

However: That was an attack. Not a rebuttal. A rebuttal would be based on facts, or even opinion in the form of a counterpoint. It would not call into question your IQ and knowledge. This person appears to have a medium amount of brains but a dearth of wisdom. Brains with no wisdom is like a loaded gun in the hands of a monkey.

 

Edit: I took a look at the cache page. It's fine. Then I re read the note. I'd delete the note. It's not related to the cache or a hunt for the cache. It's just cluttering up your page. I may ask them if they wanted to change the note to the day they planned on hunting the cache though and give them a chance to do the right thing.

Edited June 25, 2007 by Renegade Knight

[+AndrewRJ]

Well I am a geologist, and I say that his attack was way out of line.

 

One of the problems with earthcaches is that if I wanted to really put in all the details, not everyone would be able to follow it. I think you did an excelent job of breaking down a complex formation and explaining it in a way that someone standing at the site could understand.

[+StarBrand]

Cache pages are no place for debates, political or otherwise.

I agree. The "Thanks, Arnold" should be removed, as should the note on the page by the person who took offense to it.

 

Well put.

[+TerryDad2]

I agree. The "Thanks, Arnold" should be removed, as should the note on the page by the person who took offense to it.

Valid, Done.

[+JamGuys]

Am I just overreacting to a valid criticism of my cache page? I am considering deleting the note. How long do I wait to give the owner a chance to edit it if deletion is warrented?

 

Hmmm, seems as though this person had an axe to grind and you were the grindstone! Do you guys know each other? Anyway, I see that you've made the first move and deleted the phrase he took offense to from your cache page. The ball is now squarely in his court. Actually, I'm surprised that he would express an interest in still visiting your cache after posting such an inflammatory note. I'd give him 48 hours at most to respond then delete the note myself.

Edited June 25, 2007 by JamGuys

[+Miragee]

I'm not sure I would delete the Note. I don't think it reflects badly on TerryDad2, or his cache page . . . but it sure says a lot about the person who posted that Note.

 

Maybe they will realize that someday and delete the Note themselves.

[+briansnat]

Personally I would have just never responded. I also would not delete the note. It shows something about the person who left it that speaks for itself, and for better or for worse it is part of the cache's history now.

 

I would delete that note just to prevent a debate from starting on the page. The next person who sees it might decide to post a note to rebut the first poster and so-on. I've seen it happen before.

[+TerryDad2]

Hmmm, seems as though this person had an axe to grind and you were the grindstone! Do you guys know each other?

 

I don't know the cacher.

 

Well I am a geologist, and I say that his attack was way out of line.

 

One of the problems with earthcaches is that if I wanted to really put in all the details, not everyone would be able to follow it. I think you did an excelent job of breaking down a complex formation and explaining it in a way that someone standing at the site could understand.

 

Thank you. I am also a geologist.

[+QuesterMark]

A note was posted on one of my caches (an earthcache) over the weekend.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...da-969de34292d3

 

It appears to be in response to the a comment I made in the cache description to the Governor of California raising the fees to park in a state park. "There is a $10 parking fee (thanks Arnold). " The note continues into what I feel is a personal attack and belittles the analysis of the cache.

 

I sent the poster the following:

-- Copy of email sent to Zaphod357 --

Re: Your note on Cristianitos Fault & Nuclear Generation Plant? on 6/24/07

 

I see your point that the state needs to spend within its means. However, I find your perceived attitude in your post excessively negative and not conducive to an intelligent discussion or to respectful to the geocaching community.

 

Your post also gives me the impression that the analysis of the fault indicates that the fault could cause catastrophic failure of the plant. This is not the case. I very specifically keep the discussion related to what an active fault is, and the dating of the fault. The conclusion is that the fault does not pose a threat to the plant. A threat does not say a catastrophic failure.

 

Your discussion of terrorists is not relevant to the geologic discussion.

 

You also have no basis for your insults regarding my geologic knowledge. It is not called for and rude.

 

I would appreciate it if you would edit your post to express your opinions respectfully, keep to relevant topics, and base your statements on facts you can substantiate.

 

Am I just overreacting to a valid criticism of my cache page? I am considering deleting the note. How long do I wait to give the owner a chance to edit it if deletion is warrented?

 

I think I'd've deleted his note already. It's just a note, not a find.

[+chuckwagon101]

WOW! He really slammed you GOOD! And you are leaving his comments on a page that YOU have control over????

 

I would delete that sucker before you could say.....BIG PILE O' STICKS!

[+Bad_CRC]

ick. Another good example of why politics and geocaching don't belong together.

 

I'm guessing this guy is a big fan of your governor, so he took offense to the "thanks arnold" line, and just went off from there.

 

glad you removed that line. I'd chalk the rest up to disagreement of opinions, and not stir the pot anymore so you can both go your separate ways.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Am I just overreacting to a valid criticism of my cache page? I am considering deleting the note. How long do I wait to give the owner a chance to edit it if deletion is warrented?

Posts sometimes reveal quite a lot about the poster. Your poster has revealed his hair trigger and ranting personality.

 

Your response to his post is just as revealing, however.

 

Leave it be. You didn't need to respond at all. There are any number of nut cases out there and if you feel the need to interact with them you will only keep your blood pressure elevated!

 

It is not necessary to defend against every attack - future posters will see the rant for what it is and ignore it, except for learning something about the writer.

 

You have a great cache, it's had good reviews since the beginning. That should give you the secure confidence to blow off the occasional negative post.

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Yep, it was rude. He may have been right, but the cache page is not a forum, and there are better ways to state an opinion than that. He shouldn't be blasting you on the cache page. He should be blasting you right here in the forums. Thank's for bringing it here where it belongs. People were getting way too polite lately, and forum participation was lagging. []

[nonaeroterraqueous]

I also would not delete the note. It shows something about the person who left it that speaks for itself, and for better or for worse it is part of the cache's history now.

 

I love the way you think. Don't burn the books. Don't shred the documents. Don't destroy the evidence...

 

...even if it's wrong. And if you have to make a correction, you do it in such a way that people can still see what you said the first time.

 

Even mistakes tell a story. Let the truth be known, no matter how ugly it is.

 

 

 

What can I say? I love this stuff. However, Briansnat might be right about it turning into a heated debate.

[+simpjkee]

I think the guy is out of line. He should have done what i did and taken it to the forums to ignite a discussion on the usage of the "Thanks, Arnold" comment, not trashed you on your cache page. Of course if people in the forums agreed that the "Thanks, Arnold" comment is unnessecary then let the trashing begin.

 

oh yeah.......your email reply to him I thought sounded really good. nice job with that.

Edited June 26, 2007 by simpjkee

[+Isonzo Karst]

I'd leave it. But that's just me.

 

UNLESS you start getting a debate on the cache page, then you need to clean it up.

 

I had a cache published and the first log was a DNF - couldn't find any place to park. And the next two logs were Needs Archived. The cachers really ripped me too, how I was damaging the sport and all. They couldn't find any way to get to it except to drive as near as they could (about .25) and look at bunch of No Trespass signs. The write up mentioned 1 mile hike, and the name of the public property. You could google it and get a map, or just drive slooowly down the road til you around a mile from the coords and notice an overgrown walk through (the Official entry). Anyway, I left them. History of the cache and all. Eventually both cachers deleted them. I never would have.

[+mamid]

i gave one attack no time for edition. the attack was personal. so go ahead and delete.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I would have to say that the note was, perhaps, too vehement and personal. But... You did raise the question of the wisdom and safety of such a power plant at such a location. His concern is a valid one, if not expressed in a politically correct manner.

[+Robespierre]

I do not think I would have responded. He has a different view. Perhaps I would have invited him to edit his comments, just to keep political positions out, but then, perhaps you'd have to edit the cache page.

 

By speaking ill of your geological knowledge, he certainly made it a personal attack. But he's probably a park employee/ranger, and was threatened by your views.

[+TrailGators]

Yep, it was rude. He may have been right, but the cache page is not a forum, and there are better ways to state an opinion than that. He shouldn't be blasting you on the cache page. He should be blasting you right here in the forums. Thank's for bringing it here where it belongs. People were getting way too polite lately, and forum participation was lagging. [ ]

I wished the guy hadn't been rude. Rudeness totally ruins valid points. This all could have been avoided if the cache page had not gotten political in the first place.

[+mamid]

he could have sent a pm instead of a nasty message on the cache page.

[+Kiwi Nomad]

Talk about way over the top with his comment.

Your (thanks Arnold) comment did not deserve such an attack, I would have left it. If he has a problem with it he could have done a better job of giving his opinion or ignored the cache.

 

Yes the state of Californa has been living beyond it's means for a while and a parking fee could help out but....

 

Do the fees cover the cost of collecting the fees?

If you are spending more money collecting the fees than the revenue generated than you might as well go shoot your self in the foot!

 

Is there any other way of getting to the park other than private vehicle?

If there is then by making it a parking fee you may encourage people to travel there in a more 'green' way (depending on the cost), if there isn't then you might as well call it a park entrance fee.

 

Fee for the use of national parks have come up for discusion at different times here in New Zealand and droped just as quick. The reason being the fee is restrictive to those on low income getting out and enjoying nature. In New Zealand we have an increasing obesity problem with many of those people being on low incomes. Yes your taxes are paying for it but you can only visit if you can afford to.

 

Delete his log or not (it is only a note not a find) anyone who reads it should be able to see he has the problem not you.

 

Thanks for taking the time of setting up this earthcache I am sure many people will be able to visit it and learn something new about the world around them.

[+Shop99er]

I would have left the "Thanks Arnold"...but that's me.

 

You should delete the note.

[vtmtnman]

The biggest kick I get out of this thread is after reading this(And the cache page note)-

 

A note was posted on one of my caches (an earthcache) over the weekend.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...da-969de34292d3

 

It appears to be in response to the a comment I made in the cache description to the Governor of California raising the fees to park in a state park. "There is a $10 parking fee (thanks Arnold). " The note continues into what I feel is a personal attack and belittles the analysis of the cache.

 

I sent the poster the following:

-- Copy of email sent to Zaphod357 --

Re: Your note on Cristianitos Fault & Nuclear Generation Plant? on 6/24/07

 

I see your point that the state needs to spend within its means. However, I find your perceived attitude in your post excessively negative and not conducive to an intelligent discussion or to respectful to the geocaching community.

 

Your post also gives me the impression that the analysis of the fault indicates that the fault could cause catastrophic failure of the plant. This is not the case. I very specifically keep the discussion related to what an active fault is, and the dating of the fault. The conclusion is that the fault does not pose a threat to the plant. A threat does not say a catastrophic failure.

 

Your discussion of terrorists is not relevant to the geologic discussion.

 

You also have no basis for your insults regarding my geologic knowledge. It is not called for and rude.

 

I would appreciate it if you would edit your post to express your opinions respectfully, keep to relevant topics, and base your statements on facts you can substantiate.

 

Am I just overreacting to a valid criticism of my cache page? I am considering deleting the note. How long do I wait to give the owner a chance to edit it if deletion is warrented?

You posted this-

Thank you. I am also a geologist.

You just made dude look like a moron.

 

I'm sure an engineer has every right to tell a geologist about how to set up an earth cache huh?

 

As a side note-Things in California cost astronomcal amounts anyways.When I was there I was amazed they made you pay to get into natinal parks and forests.$20 just to drive through Joshua Tree NP??? For those who've never been to CA don't ask anyone in SD county what a house costs.Save yourself the heartattack...

[Clan Riffster]

From an economic standpoint, he is correct in stating that California's expenditures exceeds its income, and has for decades. I can only assume he took umbrage to the political sarcasm you had on your cache page. Politics and geocaching don't mix. Looks like you edited out the "Thanx Arnold" comment. The political note/rant should go the same way, if the poster isn't willing to edit it.

 

BTW, that looks like a kewl Earthcache! Wish it were closer.

[+uxorious]

You made a couple political comments on your cache page, and you are surprised someone answers with their own political comment?????????????????

 

Keep the politics out of your cache page, and the logs.

[+Thrak]

I freaking HATE politics mixed with my caching. I don't do this to spread my views or to listen to other (obviously wrong ) views. Politics does NOT belong in caching. Do it elsewhere. Waaaaay elsewhere.

[+wordnerd]

I thought your cache description was interesting and even fun. The response was uncalled for and rude. In fact, it was so obnoxious, I wanted to laugh. Most of the time when someone rants and calls you ignorant, it is because they have a newfound interest in the topic and probably know much less than you, but want to sound intelligent (I once had a stranger argue with me by e-mail about inertia dampeners when I wrote a Star Trek book review -- tried to tell me he had a degree in physics).

 

I think you could probably ignore it because readers can see what a rude person this is. But you also have the right to remove the post if you want. They can't possibly expect that you will keep it there.

 

Whatever you do, remember not to stoop to their level. Don't take it personally. It seems this person has anger issues and you can feel sorry for them that they have to live in their own skin each night.

 

Oh and I think that even though politics is frowned upon, you have a right, as a citizen, to comment on taxes and the governor. JMHO.

 

Wordnerd

[+uxorious]

Oh and I think that even though politics is frowned upon, you have a right, as a citizen, to comment on taxes and the governor. JMHO.

 

Of course you have a "right", but you also have a responsibility. Keep the politics out of the game. But if you do decide the cache is the place to comment, don't cry when someone responds with their comment.

[Clan Riffster]

if you do decide the cache is the place to comment, don't cry when someone responds with their comment.

Very true. If you opt to utilize your cache page as a sounding board for your political rhetoric, you should expect folks with opposing views to reciprocate.

[+TerryDad2]

Thank you everyone.

 

I have gone with the removal of my comment and the note.

[Ghengis Jon]

I hope you replaced it with "Tanks, Ahhnold".....

[+Quiggle]

Thank you everyone.

 

I have gone with the removal of my comment and the note.

I'll go ahead and close this one so people aren't compelled to offer more help than is necessary.

 

TerryDad2, if you want the thread re-opened feel free to PM me.

 

Thanks.