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Not to offend


Glenn

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I don't put much though in to the offense factor of items that I put in a cache or those that I find in a cache. However there has been a recent thread on the topic of political and religious items in a cache and their perceived offense level. This got me wondering. If I was to place a cache and at the same time try to not offend anyone with the initial swag in that cahce what items would I put in the cache? I don't know what I would put in a cache but I do know that I would keep out. Political and Religious items, and McToys.

 

What items, not already banned by the geocaching guidelines, would you put in or keep out of a cache based on offensiveness?

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Granted that we haven't been at this all that long and only have 2 small caches to our name.....we are on a tight budget :laughing: . We pick up items at the local Wallyworld that are usually on the clearance aisle that are in perfect condition, originally priced above $6 and are currently under $3. This amounts to glow sticks, hand tools, nice craft-packs, handtowels, carabiners, handiwipes, new batteries, fishing lures in little clear boxes, and anything else that we can find that would be handy to have.

 

We are getting ready to put out our first "full size" ammo can. That will have larger tools, nifty camping items, anything that I can find at $6 or less full price. I want that can to be full of things that most adults would find useful and NO TOYS!!!! My kids have plenty of stuff and I want to make some trades too! :laughing:

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I think any time your objective is to please everyone, all you do is make your own job more difficult, less fun, and in the end you never quite complete the objective. Its like demanding perfection of yourself or your significant other. As hard as you might work at it, you'll never quite get there.

 

I'd say follow the basic guidelines, avoid the political/religious/weapons/food/smelly things and go with items that YOU would like to find in a cache. If you are happy with your cache and it was fun putting it together, the majority of your visitors will appreciate the effort.

 

For those that could find no joy in your cache, well, you probably couldn't have pleased them anyway.

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some people will be offended no matter what. don't put in trash, and don't put in stuff that openly insults or criticizes any particular group, even if the criticism is perceived as justified. no broken or dirty stuff.

 

you ought to be just fine.

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I never worry about putting something "offensive" in a cache. I do try to be sure what I put in is safe for kids, and within the rules. I also would not put anything in that is not (IMHO) appropriate. Religious and political pamphlets are examples.

 

Other then that, if someone is offended by something I've put in a cache, I guess that is their problem then, not mine.

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I want that can to be full of things that most adults would find useful and NO TOYS!!!!

Thank you for that. That's how we stock our caches.

 

(It doesn't last. Adult items worth over $1 are all gone pretty quickly and then the contents run to junky plastic stuff for very young kids. I mostly own hiking caches, I have no clue who the people that leave this stuff are leaving it for. )

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I would trade much much more often if there were adult type items that are worth trading for, ya know. I'm not really interested in trading for plastic dinosaurs and rubber snakes and stuff.

 

I would even trade/put some actual "merchandise" in them, but i have a feeling someone would log:

 

T: AA mini mag flashlight

L: plastic dinosaur

 

etc, etc, etc

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I would even trade/put some actual "merchandise" in them, but i have a feeling someone would log:

 

T: AA mini mag flashlight

L: plastic dinosaur

Pretty much. I left a new LED flashlight in package at a cache once. Later i came upon this log:

Took: Flashlight

Left: Signature Lucky Penny in a Horseshoe Keychain

 

I have seen the lucky penny trinkets from that cacher. They might cost a dime. They seemed to be an experienced cacher.

 

We traded even so i am ok. But it ticks me off that in the long run someone got cheated.

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no broken or dirty stuff.

That is how i feel. As long as the item is not broken or dirty, the smallest most insignificant item can mean so much to a kid.

 

My daughter picked up 2 glass rocks at a cache recently. She was so happy. I'm sure you could buy them for less than a nickel.

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Don't worry about offending people. Stock it with the stuff that you would want to find. If someone is offended by your personal tastes, then perhaps their offense is offensive in itself. I wanted to stock a cache with books and music CDs, but what music would it be? I wasn't going to spend my own money on music that I don't even like; that's for sure. Anyone who doesn't share my taste in music or isn't willing to try doesn't have to make a trade.

 

I figure, all I'm doing is sharing a little bit of myself with fellow geocachers. If they don't like what I offer, then they probably wouldn't like me either. Okay, so I really like contemporary Christian music. If they don't like my putting it in a cache that I own, then they probably would just hate me too. :laughing: Yeah, well, it's my money and my cache. At least if no one makes a trade I won't be stuck with a bunch of stuff I don't even like.

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i have seen both political and religious items that i do not agree with. as long as they do not deride or abuse people, i'm toasty with it. sometimes if you get lucky a cache you open is kind of like a brief biographical museum of the people who have found it before you. i like to see what people leave to represent themselves.

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i have seen both political and religious items that i do not agree with. as long as they do not deride or abuse people, i'm toasty with it. sometimes if you get lucky a cache you open is kind of like a brief biographical museum of the people who have found it before you. i like to see what people leave to represent themselves.

 

Now that you mention it, I think abusiveness does seem to make the difference. I've read lots of political stuff by people way out on the other side of the political spectrum that I disagree with, which simply state their own beliefs. At worst, I might roll my eyes, but I don't feel particularly offended. It's when they condemn my own values that I start to feel that old familiar angst.

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I rarely trade anymore, but overall, I think new things are preferable. I've placed 'McToys' in caches I've found (usually without taking anything), and in new caches I've hidden (in addition to items more suited to adults). I only leave them if they are brand new and still in the bag.

 

I don't like finding items that look like they were dug out from under the car seat in an effort to find something to trade. This applies to ANYTHING I find in a cache, not just 'McToys'.

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No matter what you put in a cache, someone, somewhere will probably take offense or complain.

 

Over the years I've seen threads complaining about items such as batteries, water, business cards, golf balls, magnifying glasses, balloons and french fries in caches.

 

I generally go ahead and put what fancies me in the cache and don't give much thought to whether or not it will bother someone.

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I'm in the 'you can't please everyone' camp. Which is exactly why I really enjoy caches with a purpose. I got really excited when I discovered that there was a CD exchange cache near my mother's house. Next time I visit her, I will be getting some new music! same thing goes with book trades, and the like.

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I want that can to be full of things that most adults would find useful and NO TOYS!!!!

Thank you for that. That's how we stock our caches.

 

(It doesn't last. Adult items worth over $1 are all gone pretty quickly and then the contents run to junky plastic stuff for very young kids. I mostly own hiking caches, I have no clue who the people that leave this stuff are leaving it for. )

I dunno...my kids have always been big hikers. And even before they could hike very far, we took them on long hikes in backpacks. For some quick examples, the first cache I placed was a 4 mile hike which they did themselves no problem at ages 5 and 8 (could've gone longer, easily). When they were 8 and 11 we did a 8 mile hike which had a virtual somewhere in the middle ( :laughing: ), and when they were 9 and 12 they took a 18 mile hike. It seems in the area we live in that a lot of families are that way, so I've always included a good mix of adult and children items in all my caches.

 

-edited for some clarity

Edited by Ambrosia
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I could care less if someone is offended by what I put in a cache as swag. Society has become a 'poor me - I'm a victim - look, I'm holier than thou' etc etc group anyway. Its become very important (for some) to publicly swoon because their righteousness has been offended. Too eff'in bad.

 

Let me cite an incident that happened to me before I started only leaving a specific signature item. A wind chime my wife had for years had gotten broken and she was about to pitch it. One of the doo-hickeys that hang down was made of thick glass and about the size of a US half dollar. It had a sunburst style edge, and a raised buffalo on one side that looked like it was made of aged ivory. The other side had a star that was formed out of tiny fake diamonds and rubies. Looked cool but really nothing more than a bauble. I put a little tag on it basically saying greetings from me. I dropped it into a cache (taking NOTHING). Well, I got an e-mail a couple of weeks later from the cache OWNER stating he was horribly offended that I would put devil worship items in his cache!!! Somehow the star became an inverted pentagram and the buffalo the secret symbol of some minor demon. I sent him a note telling him to relax, it was from a wind chime. He responded that I was more evil for placing the component of satanic ritual in the cache. I ignored him. Well, then I started getting all kinds of religious spam and wackos emailing me trying to save my soul. I wrote and told him to desist and stop his freakshow friends, to no avail. Finally I told him that since I was able to get his IP address and home co-ordinates from GC.com (I didn't and can't), if he didn't stop I would take devilish action. I would bring my coven to his house at night and have blood feasts in his yard dedicating the human sacrifices to Satan in his name. And we would take small items from his property that we would leave at the scene of our inevitable future crimes to tie him (in the minds of the police) to our inherent evil. He stopped.

 

I deleted my find from the log, to deny his cache a 'find' out of spite.

 

So I really don't care if I offend someone with my swag. If fact, if someone is particularly thinskinned, I may go out of my way to offend. Those kind of people need to be held up to public ridicule, not coddled.

Edited by Ghengis Jon
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I could care less if someone is offended by what I put in a cache as swag. Society has become a 'poor me - I'm a victim - look, I'm holier than thou' etc etc group anyway. Its become very important (for some) to publicly swoon because their righteousness has been offended. Too eff'in bad.

 

Let me cite an incident that happened to me before I started only leaving a specific signature item. A wind chime my wife had for years had gotten broken and she was about to pitch it. One of the doo-hickeys that hang down was made of thick glass and about the size of a US half dollar. It had a sunburst style edge, and a raised buffalo on one side that looked like it was made of aged ivory. The other side had a star that was formed out of tiny fake diamonds and rubies. Looked cool but really nothing more than a bauble. I put a little tag on it basically saying greetings from me. I dropped it into a cache (taking NOTHING). Well, I got an e-mail a couple of weeks later from the cache OWNER stating he was horribly offended that I would put devil worship items in his cache!!! Somehow the star became an inverted pentagram and the buffalo the secret symbol of some minor demon. I sent him a note telling him to relax, it was from a wind chime. He responded that I was more evil for placing the component of satanic ritual in the cache. I ignored him. Well, then I started getting all kinds of religious spam and wackos emailing me trying to save my soul. I wrote and told him to desist and stop his freakshow friends, to no avail. Finally I told him that since I was able to get his IP address and home co-ordinates from GC.com (I didn't and can't), if he didn't stop I would take devilish action. I would bring my coven to his house at night and have blood feasts in his yard dedicating the human sacrifices to Satan in his name. And we would take small items from his property that we would leave at the scene of our inevitable future crimes to tie him (in the minds of the police) to our inherent evil. He stopped.

 

I deleted my find from the log, to deny his cache a 'find' out of spite.

 

So I really don't care if I offend someone with my swag. If fact, if someone is particularly thinskinned, I may go out of my way to offend. Those kind of people need to be held up to public ridicule, not coddled.

 

No, what you do is trade the item out and put that guy on your ignore list. Public ridicule is essentially just knocking around a wasp's nest -- it might be much more satisfying, but it brings you much grief in the process.

 

Then again, some people really are just too paranoid and will go out of their way to be offended. Give them a nudge and never speak to them again, as they have issues that go way beyond the bounds of Geocaching and small trinket trading.

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What items, not already banned by the geocaching guidelines, would you put in or keep out of a cache based on offensiveness?

 

I've never been offended by anything I found in a cache. Well, not quite true. This Cache kind of irritated me, but the irritation came not from the contents, but rather the very high quality of the contents. The hider loaded it with really good loot, including some brand new tools better than anything I have in my garage.

 

The irritation was along the lines of "This makes the loot in my cache (which I had thought pretty good) look absolutely pathetic! How am I supposed to compete with this!?!?!" :laughing:

 

I was the FTF on it, so I saw it in its best condition. By now it's probably full of broken McToys and bead necklaces, just like all the other caches in the world.

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This is not something I worry about when placing a cache.

 

The most offensive item I've put in a cache is a Historical Marker Guide It was old enough to have a marker described that wasn't there. It wasn't there because the location (a rest area) had been removed and obliterated. That in turn was in part because of the controvery around petroglyphs in the area. The State Park system (that housed some petroglyphs moved to accmodate the rest area) abandoned the land and the building that had been built to showcase the moved petroglyphs. The land reverted to the BLM and the BLM has just finished razing the building. Of course you wouldn't know all this from reading the two pages in the historical marker guide. I'd have to tell you, or you would have to be one of those offensable folks who also know all this because it's your topic of indignation.

 

Being offended takes work, unless someone is doing it on purpose but that's different.

 

Edit: The one thing I've done with a cache that got me more comments than anything else ever was to place one that was a verticla hike, a lot of work and which had no swag. Nevermind that I'd send you a custom made keychain that area cachers have taken to hanging off their cache bags from events and the like where they collect them...they wanted swag and they wanted it in the cache.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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...Everyone seems to be behaving very well or are a majority of people still out Geocaching today?

Pouring concrete to fix some issues with my house...

 

Today I take off the forms, re-grade the terrain around the pours, re-sod fix the gate and some other odds and ends. I wonder if my involuntary help is ready. They are going to be offended when they have to actually work.

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I want that can to be full of things that most adults would find useful and NO TOYS!!!!

Thank you for that. That's how we stock our caches.

 

(It doesn't last. Adult items worth over $1 are all gone pretty quickly and then the contents run to junky plastic stuff for very young kids. I mostly own hiking caches, I have no clue who the people that leave this stuff are leaving it for. )

 

So kids don't hike :laughing:

I know a lot of scouts that geocache that would be offended by that more than anything you could leave in a cache.

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...Everyone seems to be behaving very well or are a majority of people still out Geocaching today?

Pouring concrete to fix some issues with my house...

 

Today I take off the forms, re-grade the terrain around the pours, re-sod fix the gate and some other odds and ends. I wonder if my involuntary help is ready. They are going to be offended when they have to actually work.

 

I agree with others comments that little would offend me and it really does not matter as I seldom trade.

 

However, as a parent who caches with the kids, I would hope other cachers would have the common decency not to place anything of a sexual or unsafe nature in a cache. It is dissapointing that one even feels the need to mention this.

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Put in what you have handy or can afford. If it offends someone, so be it. Maybe they shouldn't wear their feelings or agenda so much on their sleeve, and realize that not everyone believes the same way they do. Differing beliefs are what makes the world go 'round, and give us a basis for intelligent, polite debate, unlike anything our elected officials and their respective parties engage in in these United States.

 

Caching is a game, meant for the participants to have fun. Leave the agendas out of it. Now, this said, there are some things that are meant to be hurtful, not suitable for all participant ages, or just in bad taste and totally lacking any class. These items, like political issues, should be left out as well.

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I would bring my coven to his house at night and have blood feasts in his yard dedicating the human sacrifices to Satan in his name. And we would take small items from his property that we would leave at the scene of our inevitable future crimes to tie him (in the minds of the police) to our inherent evil. He stopped.

:laughing::laughing: Now that' a hoot! :laughing:

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I could care less if someone is offended by what I put in a cache as swag. Society has become a 'poor me - I'm a victim - look, I'm holier than thou' etc etc group anyway. Its become very important (for some) to publicly swoon because their righteousness has been offended. Too eff'in bad.

 

So I really don't care if I offend someone with my swag. If fact, if someone is particularly thinskinned, I may go out of my way to offend. Those kind of people need to be held up to public ridicule, not coddled.

 

I could not Agree with you More Ghengis Jon.

 

I am fairly new to these forums and Geocaching, and All I see on these forums is people complaining about this or that... Being a victim in one way or another. Poor me. I am offended! I dont like this, I dont like that! Logs that say co ords are 10m off!? All the Negativity!

 

:laughing: Cry me a river why dont you! :laughing:

 

Now for the contradiction:

Personally, I dont like the Negativity, People that winge about the smallest things, people being holier than thou, Religeous and Political Propoganda, Micro's, Puzzle caches, the price of fuel. Poor me. I am offended by these things.... WHO CARES!!!! Stop burdening the rest of us about your insignificant nonsense.

 

Stop whining and go Caching!

Edited by triptrick
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I could care less if someone is offended by what I put in a cache as swag. Society has become a 'poor me - I'm a victim - look, I'm holier than thou' etc etc group anyway. Its become very important (for some) to publicly swoon because their righteousness has been offended. Too eff'in bad.

 

So I really don't care if I offend someone with my swag. If fact, if someone is particularly thinskinned, I may go out of my way to offend. Those kind of people need to be held up to public ridicule, not coddled.

 

I could not Agree with you More Ghengis Jon.

 

I am fairly new to these forums and Geocaching, and All I see on these forums is people complaining about this or that... Being a victim in one way or another. Poor me. I am offended! I dont like this, I dont like that! Logs that say co ords are 10m off!? All the Negativity!

 

;) Cry me a river why dont you! :D

 

Now for the contradiction:

Personally, I dont like the Negativity, People that winge about the smallest things, people being holier than thou, Religeous and Political Propoganda, Micro's, Puzzle caches, the price of fuel. Poor me. I am offended by these things.... WHO CARES!!!! Stop burdening the rest of us about your insignificant nonsense.

 

Stop whining and go Caching!

Well said, triptrick, well said. :D

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I'm not a big fan of religious materials in caches (my beliefs are my own, not to be shared), but I live in a pretty conservative, Christian community. Most of the people around here are pretty happy sharing their beliefs, for whatever reason they choose. Many sig cards have Bible quotes, or other Christian themes on them. That's fine, do what you want. If I see something I don't like, I move on. I won't see it again, and I'm perfectly fine with that. If I see something offensive (there's a guy that used to advertise some pretty adult themed stuff on his sig card), I'll remove it and trash it, to keep it kid-friendly, or at least not kid-unfriendly.

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I follow the same course of action that my fellow Western Michigan cacher, PJPeters, does when he cracks the lid on the cache. If I don't like it I shrug my shoulders and move on. If it's offensive I remove it.

 

If you see a log where I CITO on a cache, chances are I've removed "something" trashy from it.

 

Back to the OP's question. I stock my caches with the kind of things I would like to see. Same for FTF prizes.

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

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Put in what you have handy or can afford. If it offends someone, so be it. Maybe they shouldn't wear their feelings or agenda so much on their sleeve, and realize that not everyone believes the same way they do. Differing beliefs are what makes the world go 'round, and give us a basis for intelligent, polite debate, unlike anything our elected officials and their respective parties engage in in these United States.

 

Caching is a game, meant for the participants to have fun. Leave the agendas out of it. Now, this said, there are some things that are meant to be hurtful, not suitable for all participant ages, or just in bad taste and totally lacking any class. These items, like political issues, should be left out as well.

Well said! :rolleyes:
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I could care less if someone is offended by what I put in a cache as swag. Society has become a 'poor me - I'm a victim - look, I'm holier than thou' etc etc group anyway. Its become very important (for some) to publicly swoon because their righteousness has been offended. Too eff'in bad.

 

Let me cite an incident that happened to me before I started only leaving a specific signature item. A wind chime my wife had for years had gotten broken and she was about to pitch it. One of the doo-hickeys that hang down was made of thick glass and about the size of a US half dollar. It had a sunburst style edge, and a raised buffalo on one side that looked like it was made of aged ivory. The other side had a star that was formed out of tiny fake diamonds and rubies. Looked cool but really nothing more than a bauble. I put a little tag on it basically saying greetings from me. I dropped it into a cache (taking NOTHING). Well, I got an e-mail a couple of weeks later from the cache OWNER stating he was horribly offended that I would put devil worship items in his cache!!! Somehow the star became an inverted pentagram and the buffalo the secret symbol of some minor demon. I sent him a note telling him to relax, it was from a wind chime. He responded that I was more evil for placing the component of satanic ritual in the cache. I ignored him. Well, then I started getting all kinds of religious spam and wackos emailing me trying to save my soul. I wrote and told him to desist and stop his freakshow friends, to no avail. Finally I told him that since I was able to get his IP address and home co-ordinates from GC.com (I didn't and can't), if he didn't stop I would take devilish action. I would bring my coven to his house at night and have blood feasts in his yard dedicating the human sacrifices to Satan in his name. And we would take small items from his property that we would leave at the scene of our inevitable future crimes to tie him (in the minds of the police) to our inherent evil. He stopped.

 

I deleted my find from the log, to deny his cache a 'find' out of spite.

 

So I really don't care if I offend someone with my swag. If fact, if someone is particularly thinskinned, I may go out of my way to offend. Those kind of people need to be held up to public ridicule, not coddled.

This is a hilarious tale, and thank you very much for sharing it. I must agree with your observations, and, by the way, speaking as a former clinical psychologist and crisis intervention therapist, you chose a VERY powerful and effective means -- that of using his psychotic belief systems as a tool to manage his behavior when all else failed -- to end the drama. Great!

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Now, this said, there are some things that are meant to be hurtful, not suitable for all participant ages, or just in bad taste and totally lacking any class.

 

Glenn is trying to decide what might constitute those "things", they differ for each person. I never worry about placing items for adults, if they want to buy trinkets they can, I feel no need to oblige their desire to "find" something worth finding when they go out caching.

 

I do leave items for kids, as flask pointed out - whole, sound items (including McToys :rolleyes: ). I also leave geocoins that are not activated, those are left for the next geocacher.

 

The list of what I remove from my caches is getting longer and longer -

 

I remove all liquids, all wax crayons, all unlaminated paper items, all scented items, all food items, all lighters, all knives, all used golf balls, all broken items. I also remove anything which I think is trash from my caches, that includes items like non-geocaching buttons, business cards (laminated or not), any type of tract or solicitation and all tourist brochures. I also remove rocks, dirt, leaves. I remove any comp item supplied by a hotel like bathing caps, soap, shampoo (I may leave a sewing repair kit if it is unused). I remove all money, coins or bills. I have removed medication, sardines, pills (unmarked), pocket lint and pine cones.

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I would not stock my caches with anything that could be offensive. I also remove all offensive materials that are placed in my caches. Offensive includes religious and political materials. ANY religious or political material should not be placed in a cache. NONE, ZERO, ZILCH..... NONE!!!

 

On the other hand, if religious/ political materials are printed on a personal card, coins, etc.. then I will allow that... it would be rude not too.

 

I recently removed a religious tract from one of my caches.... sorry I am not Christian... I don't push my religious beliefs on anyone else.... and I expect the same in return.

 

I have also recently pulled a campaign button out of a cache... how tacky is that!!! B)

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I see religious stuff all the time. This area isn't overrun, but there's enough stuff to take notice: pencil sharpeners in the shape of a Bible, a St. Francis medal, brochures for a local church. I just ignore it and leave it there for the next person to take it if they want it, doesn't bother me any. One person's agenda pushing is another person's interesting trinket. I might trade for, say, a campaign button cause I thought it was a cool thing to find in the cache, not because I supported candidate X. I traded for a Honeywell keychain in a cache once, and it never occurred to me to think the cacher was pushing a pro-military-industrial complex agenda. On the whole, I think the prohibition against agenda pushing is a good one, but I think many people are too quick to label all kinds of things as that. I'd like to get a bunch of Jack Chick tracts to use as trade items - you can get them cheap and they are amusing as heck. Lots of people like me collect them for the humor value, but I don't want anyone thinking I'm pushing a religious agenda and then trashing them out.

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I would not stock my caches with anything that could be offensive. I also remove all offensive materials that are placed in my caches. Offensive includes religious and political materials. ANY religious or political material should not be placed in a cache. NONE, ZERO, ZILCH..... NONE!!!

 

On the other hand, if religious/ political materials are printed on a personal card, coins, etc.. then I will allow that... it would be rude not too.

 

I recently removed a religious tract from one of my caches.... sorry I am not Christian... I don't push my religious beliefs on anyone else.... and I expect the same in return.

 

I have also recently pulled a campaign button out of a cache... how tacky is that!!! B)

 

i might be intersted in a campaign button. i have been collecting buttons for about thirty years.

 

i'm having trouble reconciling your zero tolerance of all religious or political materials with you asssertion that it would be rude not to accept them it it's someone's card or coin.

 

once (ok, twice, i went back because i loved the place) i went to a cache on the grounds of -gasp- a buddhist temple! i am not a buddhist. want to know what i did? i enjoyed the lovely grounds and the beautiful temple.inside the cache i found various items, including some rosary beads and some other articles of various faiths. i could have been offended, but i chose to interpet this collection of stuff as indication that people who had come here had been touched somehow and that it tapped that part of them where faith resides. it seemed to me that people were trying to say something about peace and about faith.

 

there is a very large gulf between a political or religious item that people feel represents thier presence and similar items that are meant to push this agenda on you. you you cannot tolerate any of it, you are kind of thin-skinned to be living in our pluralistic society.

 

the real key to getting along with people of diverse cultures and views is not to squash out the differences, but to notice them, acknowledge them and accept them how they are.

 

i grew up near burlington, VT. i had been reckoned by many to be the whitest city in the whitest state in the union. not anymore. burlington is now a major refugee relocation center. if you see a black man riding a bicycle in winter, chances are very good that he works two jobs to support himself while he goes to school. he considers this to be the height of luxury.

 

if you work at the university, chances are very good that someone vietnamese empties your wastebasket every day. it used to be old time vermonters in custodial positions (include me) but the vietnamese snap those jobs up. think about it: it's good steady work. the pay is decent, and you don't have to speak english well. and UVM offers full tuition remission not only for you, but for your whole family. it's the american dream.

 

i could go on; eastern europeans, hispanics, and so on, but WHO is here isn't the point. the point is that they all came and there are a LOT of different political beliefs and faiths (never mind laguages) and it just isn't interesting if we hide our differences.

 

it's kind of like that with the ammocan in the woods. you get out to the middle of nowhere and at last you find the box and you may be comletely alone in that place, but holding evidence that dozens, maybe hundreds of people have come before you and sat in this same spot, holding some of these same things.

 

some of the people will have left somethng that they feel best represents them. you may not agree with their viewpoint. chances are that you won't. but you have a choice. you can consider it to be an interesting representation of another person's visit, or you can be offended.

 

if you decide to remove it, remember to leave something in the cache in return, so as not to upset the cache economy.

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So... we're a Christian family. Mr Mousekakat is studying to be a priest.

 

If we were to leave a simple little wooden cross in a cache it would be found as offensive to someone?

 

It was something we were considering doing to leave in caches.

 

We're as against proselytizing as the next person, is it the tracts and such that creates the problem, or is it just the simple fact that it is a symbol of faith?

 

FWIW, I kind of like the idea of leaving a Rosary, and I'm no longer Catholic. It's a beautiful item with a lot of symbolism, and there are so many beautiful places that inspire people to possibly draw closer to God or to meditate or whatnot, I just don't see the harm.

 

Oh, and also, I think it's great with other religious symbols, too, be it Buddhas or Stars of David of Ankhs or even Tor's Hammers... we believe in God, but we also believe that others have the right to believe, or not believe, what they want B)

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