Is it ok to drill?

[vtmtnman]

Is it ok to drill a dead tree for a cache?

 

Branch,stillstanding tree,....whatever.

[+dkwolf]

Is it ok to drill a dead tree for a cache?

 

Branch,stillstanding tree,....whatever.

I think that would fall under the 'pointy tool' clause.... landowner permission only.

[+sbell111]

I think that a dead standing tree would require landowner permission probably, but a stick would certainly not.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

It can vary from area to area, but permission would be required on private land. Some state parks and state game lands allow you to collect and/or burn standing deadwood so in those places it would probably be fine. Just make sure you're talking dead wood though I would definitely say ok for drilling a piece of deadwood found lying on the ground though. There are a number of caches even made from old stumps and deadwood.

Edited June 20, 2007 by fox-and-the-hound

[+Team GeoBlast]

Is it ok to drill a dead tree for a cache?

 

Branch,stillstanding tree,....whatever.

 

Better question, has anyone ever had a cache not published for just a drill? I am pretty sure this is confusing digging.

[+briansnat]

Is it ok to drill a dead tree for a cache?

 

Branch,stillstanding tree,....whatever.

 

Better question, has anyone ever had a cache not published for just a drill? I am pretty sure this is confusing digging.

 

A cache will not be published if it "defaces public or private property, whether a natural or man-made object, in order to provide a hiding place, a clue or a logging method." I'd say drilling holes into trees falls into the category of defacing public or private property.

 

Realistically, there is no harm in drilling into a dead tree. The danger is that when people start seeing drilled dead trees, they might not see the distinction between live and dead trees and copy the technique with live trees (yes people are THAT stupid).

Edited June 20, 2007 by briansnat

[+Jennifer&Dean]

I think it would depend on where you are placing the cache. We drilled out a stump once and placed it as a cache at a fishing access. Since we brought the item there, we did not worry about getting permission. Making our own container this way out of items from our yard or found and brought home we have no major problem with. Drilling something in situ is not something we like the idea of doing as it seems a bit over the top.

 

The caches we have seen where someone drills into telephone poles, fence posts, or living trees (all on public land) and thinks it is OK are the ones we worry about.

-J

[+StarBrand]

Realistically, there is no harm in drilling into a dead tree. The danger is that when people start seeing drilled dead trees, they might not see the distinction between live and dead trees and copy the technique with live trees (yes people are THAT stupid).

The caches we have seen where someone drills into telephone poles, fence posts, or living trees (all on public land) and thinks it is OK are the ones we worry about.

 

Two fine examples of why it is a very bad idea.

[+TrailGators]

Realistically, there is no harm in drilling into a dead tree. The danger is that when people start seeing drilled dead trees, they might not see the distinction between live and dead trees and copy the technique with live trees (yes people are THAT stupid).

I agree. Monkey see, monkey do.....

[+sbell111]

Realistically, there is no harm in drilling into a dead tree. The danger is that when people start seeing drilled dead trees, they might not see the distinction between live and dead trees and copy the technique with live trees (yes people are THAT stupid).

The caches we have seen where someone drills into telephone poles, fence posts, or living trees (all on public land) and thinks it is OK are the ones we worry about.

Two fine examples of why it is a very bad idea.

Why what is a bad idea?

 

The OP seems to be interested in any sort of drilling, including that of a fallen branch. Are you lumping all possibilities together?

 

I use a drill press to make my golf ball, fake acorn, and fake pine cone caches. If any sort of drilling is considered wrong, it would cover these items and countless other custom containers.

Edited June 20, 2007 by sbell111

[+StarBrand]

Realistically, there is no harm in drilling into a dead tree. The danger is that when people start seeing drilled dead trees, they might not see the distinction between live and dead trees and copy the technique with live trees (yes people are THAT stupid).

The caches we have seen where someone drills into telephone poles, fence posts, or living trees (all on public land) and thinks it is OK are the ones we worry about.

Two fine examples of why it is a very bad idea.

Why what is a bad idea?

 

The OP seems to be interested in any sort of drilling, including that of a fallen branch. Are you lumping all possibilities together?

 

I use a drill press to make my golf ball, fake acorn, and fake pine cone caches. If any sort of drilling is considered wrong, it would cover these items and countless other custom containers.

sigh - drilling a hole in a dead tree or its attached parts. That is what the OP is about. It encourages the drilling of "similiar" items.

[+sbell111]

Realistically, there is no harm in drilling into a dead tree. The danger is that when people start seeing drilled dead trees, they might not see the distinction between live and dead trees and copy the technique with live trees (yes people are THAT stupid).

The caches we have seen where someone drills into telephone poles, fence posts, or living trees (all on public land) and thinks it is OK are the ones we worry about.

Two fine examples of why it is a very bad idea.

Why what is a bad idea?

 

The OP seems to be interested in any sort of drilling, including that of a fallen branch. Are you lumping all possibilities together?

 

I use a drill press to make my golf ball, fake acorn, and fake pine cone caches. If any sort of drilling is considered wrong, it would cover these items and countless other custom containers.

sigh - drilling a hole in a dead tree or its attached parts. That is what the OP is about. It encourages the drilling of "similiar" items.

Given the posts in the other thread and the wording of the OP, I'm not sure that 'that is what the OP is about'.

 

<sigh>

Edited June 20, 2007 by sbell111

[+fox-and-the-hound]

A good safe answer is just an email away to your approver. It will save you doing something you might regret and maybe not getting a cache approved after going through all the effort anyway.

 

I've seen drilled rocks, pipes, trees (logs and standing dead), and a dozen or more other materials, but it all comes back to proper permission. Either from the landowner or your approver it's still going to need to be okayed before being placed. Save yourself time and aggravation by getting it first and then go for it.

 

edit for grammar

Edited June 20, 2007 by fox-and-the-hound

[+TrailGators]

Realistically, there is no harm in drilling into a dead tree. The danger is that when people start seeing drilled dead trees, they might not see the distinction between live and dead trees and copy the technique with live trees (yes people are THAT stupid).

The caches we have seen where someone drills into telephone poles, fence posts, or living trees (all on public land) and thinks it is OK are the ones we worry about.

Two fine examples of why it is a very bad idea.

Why what is a bad idea?

 

The OP seems to be interested in any sort of drilling, including that of a fallen branch. Are you lumping all possibilities together?

 

I use a drill press to make my golf ball, fake acorn, and fake pine cone caches. If any sort of drilling is considered wrong, it would cover these items and countless other custom containers.

sigh - drilling a hole in a dead tree or its attached parts. That is what the OP is about. It encourages the drilling of "similiar" items.

Given the posts in the other thread and the wording of the OP, I'm not sure that 'that is what the OP is about'.

 

<sigh>

I bet the OP knows the difference between drilling in a pine cone and drilling into a tree. So why would he ask about drilling into a pine cone? I think Brian explained it well enough already... Edited June 20, 2007 by TrailGators

[+sbell111]

Realistically, there is no harm in drilling into a dead tree. The danger is that when people start seeing drilled dead trees, they might not see the distinction between live and dead trees and copy the technique with live trees (yes people are THAT stupid).

The caches we have seen where someone drills into telephone poles, fence posts, or living trees (all on public land) and thinks it is OK are the ones we worry about.

Two fine examples of why it is a very bad idea.

Why what is a bad idea?

 

The OP seems to be interested in any sort of drilling, including that of a fallen branch. Are you lumping all possibilities together?

 

I use a drill press to make my golf ball, fake acorn, and fake pine cone caches. If any sort of drilling is considered wrong, it would cover these items and countless other custom containers.

sigh - drilling a hole in a dead tree or its attached parts. That is what the OP is about. It encourages the drilling of "similiar" items.

Given the posts in the other thread and the wording of the OP, I'm not sure that 'that is what the OP is about'.

 

<sigh>

I bet the OP knows the difference between drilling in a pine cone and drilling into a tree. So why would he ask about drilling into a pine cone? I think Brian explained it well enough already...

Since the thread is based on posts regarding drilling into a stick, I'm not exactly sure where the OP is drawing the line on drilling. Are you?

[+TrailGators]

Is it ok to drill a dead tree for a cache?

No

 

Branch

Not if it is still attached to the tree. A dead branch on the ground is OK.

 

stillstanding tree

No

 

....whatever

The OP needs to clarify...

[+briansnat]

Realistically, there is no harm in drilling into a dead tree. The danger is that when people start seeing drilled dead trees, they might not see the distinction between live and dead trees and copy the technique with live trees (yes people are THAT stupid).

The caches we have seen where someone drills into telephone poles, fence posts, or living trees (all on public land) and thinks it is OK are the ones we worry about.

Two fine examples of why it is a very bad idea.

Why what is a bad idea?

 

The OP seems to be interested in any sort of drilling, including that of a fallen branch. Are you lumping all possibilities together?

 

I use a drill press to make my golf ball, fake acorn, and fake pine cone caches. If any sort of drilling is considered wrong, it would cover these items and countless other custom containers.

 

[+Isonzo Karst]

Vaguely on topic, a geo-buddy of mine had a bison tube cache in a hole in an old fence post at a trailhead in the state forest. Caches there all have permits.

 

When the rangers tore out the old fencing, built the new trailhead kiosk and parking, they drilled a hole in one of their new posts for his cache!

[+fox-and-the-hound]

This brings to mind an interesting question though. If it's on private property (or even your own), WITH PERMISSION, would drilling into standing deadwood be an issue? The guideline is in place because any kind of destruction could be considered vandalism. But if you have explicit permission are there exceptions? Can we get a MOD ruling on this?

[+Team GeoBlast]

Vaguely on topic, a geo-buddy of mine had a bison tube cache in a hole in an old fence post at a trailhead in the state forest. Caches there all have permits.

 

When the rangers tore out the old fencing, built the new trailhead kiosk and parking, they drilled a hole in one of their new posts for his cache!

 

Now, that is a cool story!

[bogleman]

Find a natural void in a tree that is large enough to hold your desired container. Just shove it in and add some cammo - no drilling required.

 

I've found several regular sized caches hidden in voids of living and dead trees - great hiding spot and with some extra camo you could possibly "stump" some noobs.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Monkey-see monkey do is the real problem with trees.

 

A while back we had a local cacher go nuts with a power drill and paddle bit for film can holes.

 

Live trees (at least a dozen), wooden fence posts at a local lake, wooden gazebo rails in parks, wooden fence posts at a city park, in a gate to private lands... due to rejection and overwhelming dismay by the local cachers he is no longer in the game.

 

We have another local who has recently drilled one into a telephone pole; no one has officially complained, but we will if he does it again, and several of us have warned him so.

[+Knight2000]

This brings to mind an interesting question though. If it's on private property (or even your own), WITH PERMISSION, would drilling into standing deadwood be an issue? The guideline is in place because any kind of destruction could be considered vandalism. But if you have explicit permission are there exceptions? Can we get a MOD ruling on this?

I would think this would fall into the same category ruling of the digging a hole. Even if it is on private property (your own) it still is against guidelines. Others may see it and try to copy it or whatever. I think i remember Keystone saying that somewhere. Private property or not, it is still against guidelines.

[+teald024]

Just wait for a woodpecker to make a new home, boot it out and hide the micro there.

[nonaeroterraqueous]

When the rangers tore out the old fencing, built the new trailhead kiosk and parking, they drilled a hole in one of their new posts for his cache!

 

Okay, now that's just awesome.

[+Too Tall John]

Vaguely on topic, a geo-buddy of mine had a bison tube cache in a hole in an old fence post at a trailhead in the state forest. Caches there all have permits.

 

When the rangers tore out the old fencing, built the new trailhead kiosk and parking, they drilled a hole in one of their new posts for his cache!

Yet another good reason for getting explicit permission for a cache. If the rangers hadn't known there was a cache there, it surely would have landed in the pile with the rest of the old posts waiting to be burned. If this was one of my caches, I'd have been pleased if they'd given the cache back to me. If what happened were to happen to me, I'd think I'd died & gone to heaven!

[vtmtnman]

When the rangers tore out the old fencing, built the new trailhead kiosk and parking, they drilled a hole in one of their new posts for his cache!

 

Okay, now that's just awesome.

That is awesome.Having permission and a permit to be there make a difference in this case.

[+TrailGators]

When the rangers tore out the old fencing, built the new trailhead kiosk and parking, they drilled a hole in one of their new posts for his cache!

 

Okay, now that's just awesome.

That is great. Talk about some nice rangers.

[vtmtnman]

This brings to mind an interesting question though. If it's on private property (or even your own), WITH PERMISSION, would drilling into standing deadwood be an issue? The guideline is in place because any kind of destruction could be considered vandalism. But if you have explicit permission are there exceptions? Can we get a MOD ruling on this?

I would think this would fall into the same category ruling of the digging a hole. Even if it is on private property (your own) it still is against guidelines. Others may see it and try to copy it or whatever. I think i remember Keystone saying that somewhere. Private property or not, it is still against guidelines.

This is kind of what I was thinking...it's sort in the area with buried caches(Although more grey area than with a buried cache).But I'd say a stick on the ground is ok.I'd probably email the review before hand for a dead tree or similar.I mean,it's dead.Lots of places let you cut dead trees (National forests included) for personal useage.I'd say grey area.

 

Then again what are you doing running around drilling holes in dead trees for micros in the middle of the woods anyways...The caching community will be up in arms either way

[vtmtnman]

Realistically, there is no harm in drilling into a dead tree. The danger is that when people start seeing drilled dead trees, they might not see the distinction between live and dead trees and copy the technique with live trees (yes people are THAT stupid).

Basically.

[+Airmapper]

If you start to nitpick and deny caches that perhaps "bend" the guidelines, in some cases you'll be eliminating some really good caches where no harm is being done, and permission is granted.

 

People need to think before marking something such a using a drill off limits because people who don't have common sense could take the idea and do something irresponsible with it. The review system is there for a reason, to eliminate the irresponsible instances and keep the ones done in good taste.

 

A while back we had a local cacher go nuts with a power drill and paddle bit for film can holes.

 

Live trees (at least a dozen), wooden fence posts at a local lake, wooden gazebo rails in parks, wooden fence posts at a city park, in a gate to private lands... due to rejection and overwhelming dismay by the local cachers he is no longer in the game.

 

We have another local who has recently drilled one into a telephone pole; no one has officially complained, but we will if he does it again, and several of us have warned him so.

 

I think TheAlabamaRambler made a good point above, if someone goes out of control, the community itself can help take care of the situation, and notify reviewers if someone crosses the line.

[Clan Riffster]

Is it ok to drill a dead tree for a cache?

If I had to pick a blanket answer to the question, I'd say, "No". Drilling = defacing, which is a guidelines violation. There are exceptions, such as drilling out your own property, but since this may lead others to think the behavior is acceptable, I'd say it's a bad idea.

Just my $0.02

[+Renegade Knight]

Vaguely on topic, a geo-buddy of mine had a bison tube cache in a hole in an old fence post at a trailhead in the state forest. Caches there all have permits.

 

When the rangers tore out the old fencing, built the new trailhead kiosk and parking, they drilled a hole in one of their new posts for his cache!

That just goes to show why I don't second guess cache placements.

[CoyoteRed]

Vaguely on topic, a geo-buddy of mine had a bison tube cache in a hole in an old fence post at a trailhead in the state forest. Caches there all have permits.

 

When the rangers tore out the old fencing, built the new trailhead kiosk and parking, they drilled a hole in one of their new posts for his cache!

That just goes to show why I don't second guess cache placements.

I would in a case like this. The proper answer is all you need.

 

A parallel is a cop observing a suspicious person. Under the idea of "he may have a legitimate reason for doing that" he wouldn't be further investigated. You know that's not the prudent thing to do. Further observation and even a simple questioning is warranted. Then you go from there. Same with a hole drilled in brand new structures or structures you're pretty sure wouldn't have received permission. You question.

[+sbell111]

Vaguely on topic, a geo-buddy of mine had a bison tube cache in a hole in an old fence post at a trailhead in the state forest. Caches there all have permits.

 

When the rangers tore out the old fencing, built the new trailhead kiosk and parking, they drilled a hole in one of their new posts for his cache!

That just goes to show why I don't second guess cache placements.

I would in a case like this. The proper answer is all you need.

 

A parallel is a cop observing a suspicious person. Under the idea of "he may have a legitimate reason for doing that" he wouldn't be further investigated. You know that's not the prudent thing to do. Further observation and even a simple questioning is warranted. Then you go from there. Same with a hole drilled in brand new structures or structures you're pretty sure wouldn't have received permission. You question.

Your analogy breaks down when you realize that you are not a cop.

[+tozainamboku]

Your analogy breaks down when you realize that you are not a cop.

I don't think you need a badge to be a cache cop. Everyone is invited to report his fellow cachers for breaking the rules guidelines. That's how they get enforced. The reviewers can't visit every cache they publish.

 

Remember to ask yourself

1. Was this a prexisting hole?
   
2. If not, did the cacher have permission to make a new hole?
   
3. Does this cache predate the guideline? It may have been grandfathered in.
   

Not every hole drilled in a tree violates the guideline. The argument that someone may be stupid enough to copy the hide where it violates the guideline is not in my opinion reason enough to change the guideline to a rule about never hiding a cache in a drilled hole. In spite of what some say and the wording in some of the recent versions of the guidelines, I believe that this is case with the partially buried caches as well. If you use a preexisting hole or have permission you can hide a cache this way. The guideline about digging with a shovel, trowel, or other tool to find a cache on the other hand is meant to show land managers that cachers won't go tearing up the land looking for a cache. So this guideline is enforced even if you hide a cache on your own property.

 

The guidelines are written the way they are to keep them simple (for the stupid people). If you really wanted to capture the intent of the guidelines as well you would have seven pages of legalese with definitions of adequate permission and such that only a lawyer would understand. I think the goal is to indicate that most caches are hidden without having to deface property or dig holes and that people finding caches will try to leave the area in the same or better condition (CITO) than they found it. We want good relations with the land managers of the parks and forests where we hide caches and don't want the general public to view geocachers as vandals.

[+Too Tall John]

Remember to ask yourself

1. Was this a preexisting hole?
   

An important point. I have a cache that takes advantage of a preexisting hole someone drilled in a dead branch still attached to a tree.

If you really wanted to capture the intent of the guidelines as well you would have seven pages of legalese with definitions of adequate permission and such that only a lawyer would understand.

Ever print out the guidelines? There ARE at least seven pages. If they really wanted to capture the intent, it'd be a small book...

[+briansnat]

Vaguely on topic, a geo-buddy of mine had a bison tube cache in a hole in an old fence post at a trailhead in the state forest. Caches there all have permits.

 

When the rangers tore out the old fencing, built the new trailhead kiosk and parking, they drilled a hole in one of their new posts for his cache!

That just goes to show why I don't second guess cache placements.

I would in a case like this. The proper answer is all you need.

 

A parallel is a cop observing a suspicious person. Under the idea of "he may have a legitimate reason for doing that" he wouldn't be further investigated. You know that's not the prudent thing to do. Further observation and even a simple questioning is warranted. Then you go from there. Same with a hole drilled in brand new structures or structures you're pretty sure wouldn't have received permission. You question.

Your analogy breaks down when you realize that you are not a cop.

 

[+TexasGringo]

***A cache will not be published if it "defaces public or private property***

 

So, If I go to a park and put "FireTacks" in a tree for a night cache....am I defacing property?

[+Too Tall John]

Why what is a bad idea?...

Your analogy breaks down when...

Briansnat, are you holding back?

 

GURU4HIRE: I'd say no, as a pin hole and a drilled hole are pretty different, and a FireTack can be easily removed if necessary, while a hole in a tree isn't.

[+Renegade Knight]

Vaguely on topic, a geo-buddy of mine had a bison tube cache in a hole in an old fence post at a trailhead in the state forest. Caches there all have permits.

 

When the rangers tore out the old fencing, built the new trailhead kiosk and parking, they drilled a hole in one of their new posts for his cache!

That just goes to show why I don't second guess cache placements.

I would in a case like this. ...

 

You, I would answer. A reviewer I would answer. Random concerned cachers. Probably not. It's their job to enjoy my caches. Not police them. I did that before placing.

[vtmtnman]

Why what is a bad idea?...

Your analogy breaks down when...

Briansnat, are you holding back?

I'm gonna go ahead and say yes.

[+Logscaler and Red]

Rant forthcoming, be prepared to get your dander up.

 

Will wonders never cease.

 

When I have witnessed, and helped, the BLM, USFS, State department of forestry in girdling trees one year and then coming back the next year and boring 2 and 3 inch holes for the critters to start their nest in. Where they have went through and blown the tops out of trees with explosives to make more snags. Where part of a timber sale contract is that the logger has to make snags. These type of events happens all the time out here. Yes, there are already plenty of natural snags and holes but the eco freaks want "more."

 

Now I have to worry about a film can sized hole in a dead tree? BS.

 

As I see it, common sense has taken a big hit in this game. Period.

 

So when I take a chain saw and bore a hole for an ammo box in a snag, that would be a bad thing? How about using a single jack to make a hole in a rock? How about driving concrete nails into rock to hang a tag with? What about using a piece of wire to attach a tag to a tree limb? Plastic box in the puckerbrush?

 

Now that your all up in arms, lets take another look at things.

 

The idiots have broken free from their pen and are running rampant over the world. PO.(personal opinion.) Anyone who can not tell a dead tree from a live one needs caught and put back into a padded cell somewhere. PO.

 

I have a location picked out in an old cold deck for placing the cache in a bored out hole. Old bridge logs in fact and there are already plenty of holes - bolts - notches in them but none the size I want.

 

90 percent of you don't even know what a single jack is or what they where used for so that is a mute statement / question. The location I will be using is in an old rock pit where there are plenty of oversized rock that where going to be used as riprap but never hauled out. If I can find a bore hole, okay but I will make one if not. The same goes for the nails into the rock. Old rock pit so no harm done to anything "pristine" to get people up in arms over the vandalism of a rock with placing a 1/4 inch hole in it.

 

The wire on a tree limb can grow into the limb causing a possible wound so if you know of any, you had better report it to GC.com and have the cache archived.

 

How many of you have seen where critters have chewed plastic cache containers? Did you ever think maybe they swallowed some of it, got a intestinal obstruction and died from it?

 

Ravens love shiny things so those firetacks you use could attract them. They could possible maybe sorta kinda pluck one out and swallow it and get a hole in a gut somewhere and give them an infection, it could kinda sorta maybe rust and cause an infection or even - heaven forbid - get stuck as they are trying to pass it. Better report any firetacks you see as well.

 

Lets see now, where can we go from here.

 

I know, your driving. You could hurt me on your way to a cache as you get distracted looking at the gpsr, cache sheet, looking for a road sign, etc, and forget your primary job of driving so please stop driving and save me the pain. And the buzz phrase this year seems to be "carbon footprint" so as your driving around realize your leaving one and are personally responsible for global warming. For shame, for shame. Go plant a tree and get that warm fuzzy feeling of being environmentally aware.

 

I am tired of this playing the "What about if...." game so lets put an end to it.

 

IF IT DOES NOT SEEM RIGHT AND YOU HAVE TO ASK SOMEONE IF IT WOULD BE OK, DON'T DO IT!!!

 

Get your head out of your backside and use some common sense people.

 

On the flip side of the coin I will say that no matter what is said in here, it is still going to happen out there so the best YOU can do is look out after yourself and yours. Let the others thin out the gene pool.

 

logscaler.

[vtmtnman]

Rant forthcoming, be prepared to get your dander up.

 

Will wonders never cease.

 

When I have witnessed, and helped, the BLM, USFS, State department of forestry in girdling trees one year and then coming back the next year and boring 2 and 3 inch holes for the critters to start their nest in. Where they have went through and blown the tops out of trees with explosives to make more snags. Where part of a timber sale contract is that the logger has to make snags. These type of events happens all the time out here. Yes, there are already plenty of natural snags and holes but the eco freaks want "more."

 

Now I have to worry about a film can sized hole in a dead tree? BS.

 

As I see it, common sense has taken a big hit in this game. Period.

 

So when I take a chain saw and bore a hole for an ammo box in a snag, that would be a bad thing? How about using a single jack to make a hole in a rock? How about driving concrete nails into rock to hang a tag with? What about using a piece of wire to attach a tag to a tree limb? Plastic box in the puckerbrush?

 

Now that your all up in arms, lets take another look at things.

 

The idiots have broken free from their pen and are running rampant over the world. PO.(personal opinion.) Anyone who can not tell a dead tree from a live one needs caught and put back into a padded cell somewhere. PO.

 

I have a location picked out in an old cold deck for placing the cache in a bored out hole. Old bridge logs in fact and there are already plenty of holes - bolts - notches in them but none the size I want.

 

90 percent of you don't even know what a single jack is or what they where used for so that is a mute statement / question. The location I will be using is in an old rock pit where there are plenty of oversized rock that where going to be used as riprap but never hauled out. If I can find a bore hole, okay but I will make one if not. The same goes for the nails into the rock. Old rock pit so no harm done to anything "pristine" to get people up in arms over the vandalism of a rock with placing a 1/4 inch hole in it.

 

The wire on a tree limb can grow into the limb causing a possible wound so if you know of any, you had better report it to GC.com and have the cache archived.

 

How many of you have seen where critters have chewed plastic cache containers? Did you ever think maybe they swallowed some of it, got a intestinal obstruction and died from it?

 

Ravens love shiny things so those firetacks you use could attract them. They could possible maybe sorta kinda pluck one out and swallow it and get a hole in a gut somewhere and give them an infection, it could kinda sorta maybe rust and cause an infection or even - heaven forbid - get stuck as they are trying to pass it. Better report any firetacks you see as well.

 

Lets see now, where can we go from here.

 

I know, your driving. You could hurt me on your way to a cache as you get distracted looking at the gpsr, cache sheet, looking for a road sign, etc, and forget your primary job of driving so please stop driving and save me the pain. And the buzz phrase this year seems to be "carbon footprint" so as your driving around realize your leaving one and are personally responsible for global warming. For shame, for shame. Go plant a tree and get that warm fuzzy feeling of being environmentally aware.

 

I am tired of this playing the "What about if...." game so lets put an end to it.

 

IF IT DOES NOT SEEM RIGHT AND YOU HAVE TO ASK SOMEONE IF IT WOULD BE OK, DON'T DO IT!!!

 

Get your head out of your backside and use some common sense people.

 

On the flip side of the coin I will say that no matter what is said in here, it is still going to happen out there so the best YOU can do is look out after yourself and yours. Let the others thin out the gene pool.

 

logscaler.

You da man logscaler.

[CoyoteRed]

Vaguely on topic, a geo-buddy of mine had a bison tube cache in a hole in an old fence post at a trailhead in the state forest. Caches there all have permits.

 

When the rangers tore out the old fencing, built the new trailhead kiosk and parking, they drilled a hole in one of their new posts for his cache!

That just goes to show why I don't second guess cache placements.

I would in a case like this. The proper answer is all you need.

 

A parallel is a cop observing a suspicious person. Under the idea of "he may have a legitimate reason for doing that" he wouldn't be further investigated. You know that's not the prudent thing to do. Further observation and even a simple questioning is warranted. Then you go from there. Same with a hole drilled in brand new structures or structures you're pretty sure wouldn't have received permission. You question.

Your analogy breaks down when you realize that you are not a cop.

You're right. I'm the guy that flags down the cop and points at the guy acting suspicious. Just like I'm the guy who points out a cache to a reviewer. Same difference, no?

[+Lotho]

Hehe, ive seen this discussion in the CCC thread, and im glad everyone is aware its not against the rules to drill a hole in a stick!

[+sbell111]

Vaguely on topic, a geo-buddy of mine had a bison tube cache in a hole in an old fence post at a trailhead in the state forest. Caches there all have permits.

 

When the rangers tore out the old fencing, built the new trailhead kiosk and parking, they drilled a hole in one of their new posts for his cache!

That just goes to show why I don't second guess cache placements.

I would in a case like this. The proper answer is all you need.

 

A parallel is a cop observing a suspicious person. Under the idea of "he may have a legitimate reason for doing that" he wouldn't be further investigated. You know that's not the prudent thing to do. Further observation and even a simple questioning is warranted. Then you go from there. Same with a hole drilled in brand new structures or structures you're pretty sure wouldn't have received permission. You question.

Your analogy breaks down when you realize that you are not a cop.

You're right. I'm the guy that flags down the cop and points at the guy acting suspicious. Just like I'm the guy who points out a cache to a reviewer. Same difference, no?

OK, Gladys. Edited June 21, 2007 by sbell111

[+TexasGringo]

***Ravens love shiny things so those firetacks you use could attract them. ***

 

Dang...there goes my cache idea.

[+Knight2000]

Hehe, ive seen this discussion in the CCC thread, and im glad everyone is aware its not against the rules to drill a hole in a stick!

It would depend on whose stick it was. If you took a stick/wood from a park, i can see how they might frown upon that.

[+Knight2000]

You, I would answer. A reviewer I would answer. Random concerned cachers. Probably not. It's their job to enjoy my caches. Not police them. I did that before placing.

As I see it, common sense has taken a big hit in this game. Period.

Since not everyone has common sense if a cache violates guidelines and in some way could cause harm to the sport, then i think it is all cachers responsibility to say something. If you dont want to, thats cool too.

 

It reminds me of a cache i saw that had clearly marked no trespassing signs. Dozens and dozens visited and even wrote about the signs in their logs. If someone was ticketed (which the sign said was possible as it was city property) then that would reflect bad on geocaching. (At least in that city.)

 

If a cache is buried in a park, i think someone should say something.

 

If i cache is embedded in a hole drilled in a dead tree and the placer had permission- who am i to say something about it? If its not hurting anything, let it be i guess.

 

If a cache container is made/crafted by drilling i am sure it is fine. I do think when that drilling/digging whatever goes on site that is a different matter.