Solve all Puzzle caches with Geo-Genie.

[+Zork V]

Many cachers avoid doing a puzzle cache because they think it takes too long to solve or not even knowing where to start solving it. Some caches are so hard that only a handfull of people would ever finish them.

 

Enter the Geo-Genie, he would Email the final co-ords to the hapless cacher but a log would be produced on the puzzle cache page that XYZ cacher had used the Geo-Genie to get co-ords. This log could only be removed by the cache owner.

 

This concept would open up more caches being done, but would show that help was need to complete it.

 

I would like this option to be introduced, what are your thoughts?

[+billandlore]

Nice Idea but I prefer to contact the owner,Then only the owner knows my level of incompetence.

I always try to figure them out before getting help.This might be good if you were out of town but if I were the owner , I would hate seeing geogenie posts.

[+edscott]

Many cachers avoid doing a puzzle cache because they think it takes too long to solve or not even knowing where to start solving it. Some caches are so hard that only a handfull of people would ever finish them.

 

Enter the Geo-Genie, he would Email the final co-ords to the hapless cacher but a log would be produced on the puzzle cache page that XYZ cacher had used the Geo-Genie to get co-ords. This log could only be removed by the cache owner.

 

This concept would open up more caches being done, but would show that help was need to complete it.

 

I would like this option to be introduced, what are your thoughts?

 

There are different types of caches because there are different types of cachers. If you can't rock climb, there are caches you will not be able to find. If you can't bushwhack a couple miles there are others to take off your to do list. I figure if there are puzzles you can't solve then that smiley doesn't belong on your list of finds.

[+Knight2000]

I think most everyone would use it which would defeat the purpose of the hider.

 

I like puzzle caches that are generally pretty solvable. But when you get these harder ones, what is the point?

 

To prove superior intellect?

 

To use up over 215,000 square feet of possible geocaching area that a traditional can not be placed on?

 

Sure all may be solvable, but when months go by and no one finds it in a populated area- it seems like a waste of everyones time who is involved.

[+Theseus]

I think most everyone would use it which would defeat the purpose of the hider.

 

I like puzzle caches that are generally pretty solvable. But when you get these harder ones, what is the point?

 

To prove superior intellect?

 

To use up over 215,000 square feet of possible geocaching area that a traditional can not be placed on?

 

Sure all may be solvable, but when months go by and no one finds it in a populated area- it seems like a waste of everyones time who is involved.

 

Why do people do hard crossword puzzles? Run marathons? Well, what is the point of any challenge? It's fun to overcome a good challenge. I tend to agree with you that for me the more easily solvable ones are fun but I don't begrudge the really hard ones.

 

As to the Geo-Genie, I don't really like it. I think it would take away some the fun of the hider who has put a lot of thought into a tough puzzle cache and it would take away some of the fun of the person who pulled an all-nighter or spent two weeks solving a tough puzzle. Every cache does not need to be available to every cacher. Sure, if 90% of caches fell into this category it would constitute a problem but that is not the case. I'm not sure what other areas are like but in Eastern Massachusetts the percent of real toughies is pretty low which, I think, is just about right. I agree with billandlore, if you are really stuck then contact the owner.

 

Oh, and if anyone can help me with this cache please let me know [hmm, just noticed a new clue - gotta run!]

[+Knight2000]

I dont dislike or have a problem with puzzle caches. I like many of them. In fact, we just had one published today. But i wish the ones that are harder to do wouldnt use the 528' rule. Maybe half that. Because they aren't going to get many visits. This may not be a big deal in some areas. It may not be a big deal at all.

 

Probably a stupid thing to say. lol

[+Hobbit Taz]

Many cachers avoid doing a puzzle cache because they think it takes too long to solve or not even knowing where to start solving it. Some caches are so hard that only a handfull of people would ever finish them.

 

Enter the Geo-Genie, he would Email the final co-ords to the hapless cacher but a log would be produced on the puzzle cache page that XYZ cacher had used the Geo-Genie to get co-ords. This log could only be removed by the cache owner.

 

This concept would open up more caches being done, but would show that help was need to complete it.

 

I would like this option to be introduced, what are your thoughts?

 

There are different types of caches because there are different types of cachers. If you can't rock climb, there are caches you will not be able to find. If you can't bushwhack a couple miles there are others to take off your to do list. I figure if there are puzzles you can't solve then that smiley doesn't belong on your list of finds.

 

Im not much into the harder puzzle caches although I do like some of the easier ones. Ive put one out which isnt a true "puzzle" but an unknown since it walks you through the park using found clues along the way to reach the final. I did this since the park was small enough that if I placed a cache in any area that wouldnt be muggled easily it would disallow any other cache in that park anyway. So why not give the person a good feel for the whole park.

 

I wouldnt want someone or some web site to give away the final (this sort of puzzle cache or the true "puzzle" caches. It would defeat the whole purpose of having the cache of that type. If someone needs a hint to help them along Im always glad to respond to an email either with a tip, additional clue, or outright give them a portion of the answer if I think they need it. I don't want my caches to be Frustrating, just challenging.

[+Renegade Knight]

When my muse demands that I place a hard cache that is a challenge. The last thing I want is for some numnutz to get the coord from his buddy who did the real work and just waltz up to the cache and find it. It defeats the entire intended cache experience. I also don't want to have to delete a log because of this short circuit.

 

GeoGenie does nothing for me as a cache owner. It would be too much of a crutch as a finder since it would not be able to give me that subtle hint that puts me on the right track for solving a puzzle without spoiling the puzzle itself.

[+Glenn]

Many cachers avoid doing a puzzle cache because they think it takes too long to solve or not even knowing where to start solving it. Some caches are so hard that only a handfull of people would ever finish them.

 

Enter the Geo-Genie, he would Email the final co-ords to the hapless cacher but a log would be produced on the puzzle cache page that XYZ cacher had used the Geo-Genie to get co-ords. This log could only be removed by the cache owner.

 

This concept would open up more caches being done, but would show that help was need to complete it.

 

I would like this option to be introduced, what are your thoughts?

 

All puzzle caches are meant to be solved. Otherwise why would the owner bother hiding the cache. Although one feature I would like to see is way a double check my solution to see if I got the right coordinates. The only problem I see is that I have yet too see a system where you couldn't game the system by simply enter coordinates until you got the right one. I remember one puzzle cache I saw used a CRC like system so you could check to see if the coordinates you came up with are correct before you went looking for the cache.

[+Prime Suspect]

Many cachers avoid doing a puzzle cache because they think it takes too long to solve or not even knowing where to start solving it. Some caches are so hard that only a handfull of people would ever finish them.

 

Enter the Geo-Genie, he would Email the final co-ords to the hapless cacher but a log would be produced on the puzzle cache page that XYZ cacher had used the Geo-Genie to get co-ords. This log could only be removed by the cache owner.

 

This concept would open up more caches being done, but would show that help was need to complete it.

 

I would like this option to be introduced, what are your thoughts?

So what's to keep me from creating a couple of sock-puppet accounts just to get answers from Geo-Genie, then posting my finds under my regular account?

 

No thanks.

[Mushtang]

To prove superior intellect?

 

To use up over 215,000 square feet of possible geocaching area that a traditional can not be placed on?

Isn't it closer to 875,825 square feet?

 

Then again, you DID say "over".

 

I thinik the GeoGenie would just be an easier replacement for phone-a-friend. Hard puzzles aren't atopping those folks that have to find every nearby cache even if they can't solve them. There are plenty of people willing to share answers if asked. Having an indication that GeoGenie was used will only keep these people from using it, but they'll still ask friends (or use a sock puppet).

Edited June 19, 2007 by Mushtang

[+StarBrand]

It would soon be used (abused) by 90% of visitors (via Prime's method). No Thanks.

[+Knight2000]

To prove superior intellect?

 

To use up over 215,000 square feet of possible geocaching area that a traditional can not be placed on?

Isn't it closer to 875,825 square feet?

 

Then again, you DID say "over".

Hmmm. Let me think about this...

 

You are absolutely correct. I had a brain fart. Thanks for pointing that out!

 

Even more reason to allow harder puzzle caches leniency on the cache saturation guideline.

[+tozainamboku]

As a puzzle cache owner, I would prefer to have the option to sell InvisiClues to my puzzles.

Edited June 19, 2007 by tozainamboku

[+dkwolf]

Hey, why not an additional function of Geo-Genie that goes out, retrieves the cache for you and brings it right to your recliner so you can log it from home, and then takes it back?

 

What? That would defeat the purpose of putting a cache out in the first place, you say?

 

Hm.

 

 

 

No thanks. If someone makes a cache a challenge, I want to experience the challenge they intended; and likewise if I hid a challenging cache, I don't want shortcuts used.

[+Theseus]

Hey, why not an additional function of Geo-Genie that goes out, retrieves the cache for you and brings it right to your recliner so you can log it from home, and then takes it back?

 

What? That would defeat the purpose of putting a cache out in the first place, you say?

 

Hm.

 

 

 

No thanks. If someone makes a cache a challenge, I want to experience the challenge they intended; and likewise if I hid a challenging cache, I don't want shortcuts used.

 

That made me laugh out loud.

[+yumitori]

I'm curious how geo-genie is supposed to 'guarantee' that the puzzle solution is the correct one.

 

I recall a website that purported to provide puzzle solutions. When I looked at one of my caches listed there (without my permission), the 'answer' was completely wrong.

[+Cornerstone4]

 

Enter the Geo-Genie, he would Email the final co-ords to the hapless cacher but a log would be produced on the puzzle cache page that XYZ cacher had used the Geo-Genie to get co-ords.

 

I suck at puzzles, but I still wouldn't want to see this.

 

File it in the Diaper Genie.

 

[Mustcache]

Many cachers avoid doing a puzzle cache because they think it takes too long to solve or not even knowing where to start solving it. Some caches are so hard that only a handfull of people would ever finish them.

 

Enter the Geo-Genie, he would Email the final co-ords to the hapless cacher but a log would be produced on the puzzle cache page that XYZ cacher had used the Geo-Genie to get co-ords. This log could only be removed by the cache owner.

 

This concept would open up more caches being done, but would show that help was need to complete it.

 

I would like this option to be introduced, what are your thoughts?

 

There are different types of caches because there are different types of cachers. If you can't rock climb, there are caches you will not be able to find. If you can't bushwhack a couple miles there are others to take off your to do list. I figure if there are puzzles you can't solve then that smiley doesn't belong on your list of finds.

 

What he said.

[+SCBrian]

 

All puzzle caches are meant to be solved. Otherwise why would the owner bother hiding the cache. Although one feature I would like to see is way a double check my solution to see if I got the right coordinates. The only problem I see is that I have yet too see a system where you couldn't game the system by simply enter coordinates until you got the right one. I remember one puzzle cache I saw used a CRC like system so you could check to see if the coordinates you came up with are correct before you went looking for the cache.

 

Sissy-n-CR, Local Charleston, SC cachers. Have a way to check your coords before you go out. If your coords are wrong, you gotta wait another hour before checking again. This has helped me when I came up with 3 possible solutions to one of there puzzles once..

[+Zork V]

Remember this an OPTION, you choose to use it.

 

If you want to cheat with your sock puppet account you can, your choice.

 

Nothing stopping you solving the old fashioned way.

[CoyoteRed]

Although one feature I would like to see is way a double check my solution to see if I got the right coordinates. The only problem I see is that I have yet too see a system where you couldn't game the system by simply enter coordinates until you got the right one. I remember one puzzle cache I saw used a CRC like system so you could check to see if the coordinates you came up with are correct before you went looking for the cache.

There are at least two permanent sites that allow owners to set up a link to allow folks to check their solutions. Geochecker and Evince. Both even allow for fuzzy solutions. At least one of those has brute force protection.

[CoyoteRed]

Sissy-n-CR, Local Charleston, SC cachers. Have a way to check your coords before you go out. If your coords are wrong, you gotta wait another hour before checking again. This has helped me when I came up with 3 possible solutions to one of there puzzles once..

 

What Brian is talking about is a custom written solution for our caches. It wouldn't work well for the general public.

[+TheAprilFools]

While I am not a fan of puzzles, in fact I am boycotting them at the moment, I don't think this is a good idea. Solving the puzzle is part of the requirement to get the puzzle smiley. If something like this was implemented I think the cache owner should have the option of turning it off.

[+TheAprilFools]

Duplicate

Edited June 19, 2007 by Blanston12

[+ThirstyMick]

Some of the most satisfying and memorable caches I have done have been the tricky puzzles that give my brain a real workout. Good for rainy days and winter weeknights. This is why I started making my own puzzles.

 

Lucky for me there seem to be a lot of NJ cachers that feel the same and I have a long list of puzzles waiting for me to work on!

 

While its true when I travel i don't do as many puzzles, it doesn't bother me so much. I don't like the idea of a puzzle genie.. kind of defeats the purpose.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I dont dislike or have a problem with puzzle caches. I like many of them. In fact, we just had one published today. But i wish the ones that are harder to do wouldnt use the 528' rule. Maybe half that. Because they aren't going to get many visits. This may not be a big deal in some areas. It may not be a big deal at all.

 

Probably a stupid thing to say. lol

 

Second the motion.

[CoyoteRed]

Just realized I haven't actually weighed in the concept of Geo-Genie--I don't like it.

 

When you are saying, "I would like this option to be introduced..." do you mean the hidden final coordinates be revealed to you thus preventing any option for the cache owner to further obfuscate the location behind additional counter-measures? If so, you'd be seeing a lot fewer puzzles. Folks would simply not bother.

[+*TnT*]

All of which brings up the point that if you DO solve a puzzle for a cache, you should feel a moral obligation to never share your solution and/or methods. The cache owner is the only one who should give clues of any type for any of his caches. So, what am I saying? (I don't like the "Phone a friend" a whole lot either.)

 

To me, someone else giving clues to my caches is tantamount to copyright theft. I thought up the idea for the puzzle and implemented it, I should have the fun of watching people either struggle, or find it, and not be frustrated by knowing that one person solved it -- 10 people logged it.

Edited June 20, 2007 by *TnT*

[+JamGuys]

To prove superior intellect?

 

In my case, absolutely!

[+Glenn]

All of which brings up the point that if you DO solve a puzzle for a cache, you should feel a moral obligation to never share your solution and/or methods. The cache owner is the only one who should give clues of any type for any of his caches. So, what am I saying? (I don't like the "Phone a friend" a whole lot either.)

 

To me, someone else giving clues to my caches is tantamount to copyright theft. I thought up the idea for the puzzle and implemented it, I should have the fun of watching people either struggle, or find it, and not be frustrated by knowing that one person solved it -- 10 people logged it.

 

I don't cheat on puzzle caches because for me it is a pride issue. I enjoy being able to say that *I* solved the puzzle and *I* found the cache. However I've noticed that for some people pride isn't an issue. I guess the attitude is similar to attitudes to test taking in High School. Some people would never cheat because they want to be able to say that they earned the grade they got and others don't care how they get grade as long as it is highest grade that they can get via any methods made available to them.

 

I will be placing my first puzzle cache soon. I don't plan on being the morality police but if I find a large groups of people finding my cache very closely together or I see other logging oddities then my next puzzle cache won't be nearly as easy. If someone is going to give out the solution or location of my puzzle cache then I am going to make the first person to solve it have to work long and hard for the correct solution.

[+Miragee]

Looking at some Puzzle Cache pages gives me an instant headache . . . Even so, I would never use a "Geo-Genie" to solve puzzle caches. That is just wrong . . .

[+Team Sieni]

There are two types of puzzle cache. One is the honest to goodness, salt of the earth puzzle cache that regular folks do. They are reasonable puzzles that are fun to solve.

 

The second is set by a private clique up-themselves intellectual snobs. They just waste good hiding space and should be banned.

 

The problem is, how to tell the difference between the two? Easy! The latter are the ones I can't solve . The former are ones I can do! .

Edited June 21, 2007 by Team Sieni

[+QuesterMark]

Many cachers avoid doing a puzzle cache because they think it takes too long to solve or not even knowing where to start solving it. Some caches are so hard that only a handfull of people would ever finish them.

 

Enter the Geo-Genie, he would Email the final co-ords to the hapless cacher but a log would be produced on the puzzle cache page that XYZ cacher had used the Geo-Genie to get co-ords. This log could only be removed by the cache owner.

 

This concept would open up more caches being done, but would show that help was need to complete it.

 

I would like this option to be introduced, what are your thoughts?

 

That's an interesting thought, but I don't think I'd use it. I haven't done many puzzle caches, but that's part of the challenge, so I'd have to solve it myself. I do like the site that some folks put in to confirm the coordinates.

[+QuesterMark]

I dont dislike or have a problem with puzzle caches. I like many of them. In fact, we just had one published today. But i wish the ones that are harder to do wouldnt use the 528' rule. Maybe half that. Because they aren't going to get many visits. This may not be a big deal in some areas. It may not be a big deal at all.

 

Probably a stupid thing to say. lol

 

I appreciate it when the bogus coordinates are the middle of a lake (that has no islands) or something like that so that the 528' rule is not an issue.

[+QuesterMark]

As a puzzle cache owner, I would prefer to have the option to sell InvisiClues to my puzzles.

 

I miss Infocom.

I have both Lost Treasures sets...and I still have my old copy of Leather Goddesses of Phobos!

[+QuesterMark]

 

All puzzle caches are meant to be solved. Otherwise why would the owner bother hiding the cache. Although one feature I would like to see is way a double check my solution to see if I got the right coordinates. The only problem I see is that I have yet too see a system where you couldn't game the system by simply enter coordinates until you got the right one. I remember one puzzle cache I saw used a CRC like system so you could check to see if the coordinates you came up with are correct before you went looking for the cache.

 

Sissy-n-CR, Local Charleston, SC cachers. Have a way to check your coords before you go out. If your coords are wrong, you gotta wait another hour before checking again. This has helped me when I came up with 3 possible solutions to one of there puzzles once..

 

Evince? Is that what it's called?

[+Prime Suspect]

I dont dislike or have a problem with puzzle caches. I like many of them. In fact, we just had one published today. But i wish the ones that are harder to do wouldnt use the 528' rule. Maybe half that. Because they aren't going to get many visits. This may not be a big deal in some areas. It may not be a big deal at all.

 

Probably a stupid thing to say. lol

 

I appreciate it when the bogus coordinates are the middle of a lake (that has no islands) or something like that so that the 528' rule is not an issue.

If the posted coordinates are bogus, the 528' rule is not an issue, regardless of where the coordinates are.

[+Prime Suspect]

 

All puzzle caches are meant to be solved. Otherwise why would the owner bother hiding the cache. Although one feature I would like to see is way a double check my solution to see if I got the right coordinates. The only problem I see is that I have yet too see a system where you couldn't game the system by simply enter coordinates until you got the right one. I remember one puzzle cache I saw used a CRC like system so you could check to see if the coordinates you came up with are correct before you went looking for the cache.

 

Sissy-n-CR, Local Charleston, SC cachers. Have a way to check your coords before you go out. If your coords are wrong, you gotta wait another hour before checking again. This has helped me when I came up with 3 possible solutions to one of there puzzles once..

 

Evince? Is that what it's called?

evince, it forces you to wait a few minutes when you enter wrong coordinates, and locks you out for a longer period if you rack up too many wrong tries, to prevent guessing.

Edited June 21, 2007 by Prime Suspect

[CoyoteRed]

All puzzle caches are meant to be solved. Otherwise why would the owner bother hiding the cache. Although one feature I would like to see is way a double check my solution to see if I got the right coordinates. The only problem I see is that I have yet too see a system where you couldn't game the system by simply enter coordinates until you got the right one. I remember one puzzle cache I saw used a CRC like system so you could check to see if the coordinates you came up with are correct before you went looking for the cache.

Sissy-n-CR, Local Charleston, SC cachers. Have a way to check your coords before you go out. If your coords are wrong, you gotta wait another hour before checking again. This has helped me when I came up with 3 possible solutions to one of there puzzles once..

Evince? Is that what it's called?

Not in the case Brian is talking about. The one we have is custom written.

[+fizzymagic]

I have a puzzle cache that "phone-a-friend" does not work for. The cache genie wouldn't work, either.

[+Miragee]

I dont dislike or have a problem with puzzle caches. I like many of them. In fact, we just had one published today. But i wish the ones that are harder to do wouldnt use the 528' rule. Maybe half that. Because they aren't going to get many visits. This may not be a big deal in some areas. It may not be a big deal at all.

 

Probably a stupid thing to say. lol

 

I appreciate it when the bogus coordinates are the middle of a lake (that has no islands) or something like that so that the 528' rule is not an issue.

Actually, the 528' rule is still in place because the Reviewers have the coordinates for the final location. If someone tries to place a cache,,or a Multi waypoint, closer than 528' to the final, they will have to move the cache, or waypoint, even if that Puzzle cache only has a couple of finders in a year . . .

[+pghlooking]

I dont dislike or have a problem with puzzle caches. I like many of them. In fact, we just had one published today. But i wish the ones that are harder to do wouldnt use the 528' rule. Maybe half that. Because they aren't going to get many visits. This may not be a big deal in some areas. It may not be a big deal at all.

 

Probably a stupid thing to say. lol

 

I appreciate it when the bogus coordinates are the middle of a lake (that has no islands) or something like that so that the 528' rule is not an issue.

Actually, the 528' rule is still in place because the Reviewers have the coordinates for the final location. If someone tries to place a cache,,or a Multi waypoint, closer than 528' to the final, they will have to move the cache, or waypoint, even if that Puzzle cache only has a couple of finders in a year . . .

But the bogus coordinates are not used for the 528' rule is what he was trying to explain.

 

Not every cache was intended for everyone to find. that is not a bad thing. I don't expect to be able to find them all, nor do I think an owner has an obligation to place a cache that I am able to find. As long as it is within the guidelines, and has some redeaming value, other than a number, I think it is a good cache. I like puzzles but grow sad of the few people who feel it is their right to find every cache no matter what. The person who couldn't figure out how to log a TB after 5 phone a friends, all of a sudden breaks a three stage puzzle using programs to conceal the coordinates and such. By them Bubbaing the cache they take away from everyone who found it legit. If you don't possess the how to to solve the cache, ask the owner. most will help you through it. they placed it to be hard but fun at the same time. Stealing coordinates off a friend to just get a virtual smiley is nothing short of pathetic. I wish there was a way to get these people to stop Bubbaing caches, not people coming up with new ways to encourage it.

[vtmtnman]

Hey, why not an additional function of Geo-Genie that goes out, retrieves the cache for you and brings it right to your recliner so you can log it from home, and then takes it back?

 

What? That would defeat the purpose of putting a cache out in the first place, you say?

 

Hm.

 

 

 

No thanks. If someone makes a cache a challenge, I want to experience the challenge they intended; and likewise if I hid a challenging cache, I don't want shortcuts used.

I think out of all the posts,I agree with dkwolf the most.Everyone wants a way around something now or a shortcut it seems like these days.This Geo-Genie idea does not allow one to develop problem solving skills.Where is that feel of triumph and satisfaction when you finally solve the puzzle?Way to many would just Geo-Genie a puzzle someone worked hard on to create.I rank this up there with not reading the cache page.

 

Just accept the fact that every cacher cannot find every cache.I don't scuba,I don't rock climb,and I'm not into mountaineering,so there's just some caches I'm never going to find.Ask how VinnyandSue Team would feel if they discovered a cacher had sent in a climber to get one of their 5 star pyscho urban caches?This is at the same level.The log would be deleted,and so would the one on my puzzle cache that said the 'finder'used Geo-Genie.

 

Sorry,but there's just caches out there that aren't for everyone,to include me.I hold no angst towards caches I will not be able to claim.In fact,you might look at those types of caches,and it just might make you say,"Maybe I should try something new to get it?"

[+maggieszoo]

I can't think of the name of it (geochecker?), but one of our local hiders uses a program to check your coords. That's a nice feature. I would hate to get wrong coords and find myself bushwhacking somewhere I'm not supposed to be.

 

Of course, if someone were diligent enough, they could systematically enter one set of coords after another until they hit the right combination. I think that would be harder than solving the puzzle!

[+flask]

add me to the "no" column.

 

i don't like it. i don't like it one bit.

[+Kit Fox]

Many cachers avoid doing a puzzle cache because they think it takes too long to solve or not even knowing where to start solving it. Some caches are so hard that only a handfull of people would ever finish them.

 

Enter the Geo-Genie, he would Email the final co-ords to the hapless cacher but a log would be produced on the puzzle cache page that XYZ cacher had used the Geo-Genie to get co-ords. This log could only be removed by the cache owner.

 

This concept would open up more caches being done, but would show that help was need to complete it.

 

I would like this option to be introduced, what are your thoughts?

 

I don't believe in cache entitlement. If I hide a puzzle cache, and a cacher can't figure out the puzzle, then they can't find the cache. I hide puzzle caches to introduce cachers to different facets of cryptography. Puzzle caches are a great solution to prevent cache pirates from stealing caches, and a great method to thin down the number of finders. I have no problem purposely making caches hard, in order to reduce the number of finds. I do this by hiding high terrain caches, and hard puzzles. If cachers need hints, they can send me a message.

 

With 88 active caches, I can say without a doubt that my well placed puzzle caches last longer in the field than my traditional caches, multis, etc. The extra effort to find the cache weeds out all but the most dedicated cachers.

 

If TPTB ever came up with system like this, i'd stop hiding puzzle caches.

 

I do support one option that CoyoteRed suggested, and that is a password protected additional waypoint. When certain puzzles are solved, a cacher would derive a password, that unlocks the additional waypoint, giving them the coordinates to the cache.